QUALITY vs COST

[rolexm]

Rolexm, your Ibanez 7 String sucks. Sorry man. Probably needs setup. But you're a good player.


Tone is in teh hair. I'm losing some but there I said it.

Had it fixed already. I made a mistake in the wiring plus and re-intonated. Weird, I didn't change string gauge.

[rolexm]

In my experience, improvement in quality comes in huge gobs in the 10k-70k range; after that, it's really trickles. Nothin' wrong with trickles if you can afford it. The problem only really comes if you seek validation all the time for a 150k guitar you bought that was owned by an entry-level jap copy. Or you want people to say that your MIC Les is as good as a Gibby. If you really know what you want, it shouldn't even matter. There will always be people who would think that your gear sucks, or is not worth it, or whatever, but so long as you think it delivers regardless of price or brand, then there shouldn't be any argument.

I have to agree with everything you said. Sometimes I believe that there is a placebo effect with people who buy gear that is too expensive (not all of them and not all the gear).

recommended reading: "The Emperor's New Clothes"

link... http://www.rickwalton.com/folktale/yellow04.htm

It's a funny but good share.

[boogsy]

I have to agree with everything you said. Sometimes I believe that there is a placebo effect with people who buy gear that is too expensive (not all of them and not all the gear).

Naniniwala rin ako dito. Some things are really just plain hype or snake oil. But you have to remember, some people buy the more expensive things simply because THEY CAN. Like I said in a previous post, you don't have to be Schumacher to drive a Ferrari. Whether it's worth it or not is entirely relative to capacity.

In my experience, improvement in quality comes in huge gobs in the 10k-70k range; after that, it's really trickles. Nothin' wrong with trickles if you can afford it. The problem only really comes if you seek validation all the time for a 150k guitar you bought that was owned by an entry-level jap copy. Or you want people to say that your MIC Les is as good as a Gibby. If you really know what you want, it shouldn't even matter. There will always be people who would think that your gear sucks, or is not worth it, or whatever, but so long as you think it delivers regardless of price or brand, then there shouldn't be any argument.

Again, brings us back to the law of diminishing returns.

As for who sounds better.. what the hell does that have to do with the relationship between cost and quality?

[rolexm]

Naniniwala rin ako dito. Some things are really just plain hype or snake oil. But you have to remember, some people buy the more expensive things simply because THEY CAN. Like I said in a previous post, you don't have to be Schumacher to drive a Ferrari. Whether it's worth it or not is entirely relative to capacity.

Again, brings us back to the law of diminishing returns.

As for who sounds better.. what the hell does that have to do with the relationship between cost and quality?

The point of this thread was already stated. It's more to gather opinions and see if people are aware of this.

For those who do just because they CAN, that's not a problem. But if you're going to bash people who can't, then that's just foul.

[blackwingchai]

The point of this thread was already stated. It's more to gather opinions and see if people are aware of this.

For those who do just because they CAN, that's not a problem. But if you're going to bash people who can't, then that's just foul.

exactly....

[boogsy]

The point of this thread was already stated. It's more to gather opinions and see if people are aware of this.

For those who do just because they CAN, that's not a problem. But if you're going to bash people who can't, then that's just foul.

Yup. This thread is pretty much covered.

[BAMF]

You are going down a very long and slippery slope. Welcome to errr...the club (?)

Basta all I can say is that my Guitar GAS has ended. There's this 1978 Aria Pro Strat that came my way recently. Inisnab ko pa nga until I played it. It just sounds so good, I just had to keep it. It is magical,despite the worn-down frets. Now if I only had the magical chops. Frustrating. Kinda like owning the Elder Wand (Wand of Destiny) and not knowing any spells to use it for. It would look funny too if a Squibb, or worse a Muggle, buys an expensive wand from Ollivanders shop in Diagon Alley eh?  Oh well...it's like simply saying, don't get what you can afford, get what you deserve. But that's me of course.

NOMINATE THIS THREAD! Hehe.

Man you have to learn how to quote properly. It's really confusing already.

1. Can we speak in terms of what we actually use the guitar for? We use it to play. That's utility. Now, if playing-well held constant, there should be alternatives out that at a marginal difference in quality/sound but having a very substancial difference in cost.
2. Okay, putting technology aside, can you therefore say that the NEW ways of manufacturing are no comparison to the craftmaship you are talking about? Does it also give those "great manufacturers" that you speak of the right to charge so much? Does it follow that the additional quality justifies the additional cost?
3. Whoa, nice video. So if you can't make your gear look and sound good, why buy something so expensive? What guitar was that? Baker? Does it give any value added to the sound you get when YOU play?
4. There are a lot of examples. Generally spekaing, get a well made body and upgrade the parts that match the guitar very well, and poof: TONE.

[BAMF]

Good shares sir Bamf!

So in some cases the difference is quality is so negligible even if cost is way different. And I did not mention that there is a one-size-fits-all definition. I'm just saying statistically speaking, there will always be a way to determine the range of comfort. 

The comfort range is also up to the particular person. Some people will not be caught dead wearing anything less than signature clothes. Ako...my jeans are like P150 from 168 Mall. Pero ang tatak ha. Original na Levis...may mga run lang kaya reject and binebenta ng mura hehehe.

[firemodel55]

NOMINATE THIS THREAD! Hehe.

Man you have to learn how to quote properly. It's really confusing already.

1. Can we speak in terms of what we actually use the guitar for? We use it to play. That's utility. Now, if playing-well held constant, there should be alternatives out that at a marginal difference in quality/sound but having a very substancial difference in cost. (So you think.  Well based on my standards either a guitar has it or it doesn't -- natapos na ako sa marginal differences.  Sometimes you can get lucky at a certain price class but if I get the best of what a highest price class has to offer versus best of what the lowest price class has to offer -- the differences are NOT marginal.)
2. Okay, putting technology aside, can you therefore say that the NEW ways of manufacturing are no comparison to the craftmaship you are talking about? (No comparison to a well seasoned and respected luthier who has an ear) Does it also give those "great manufacturers" that you speak of the right to charge so much? (Yes it gives them the right.)  Does it follow that the additional quality justifies the additional cost? (Yes it does)
3. Whoa, nice video. So if you can't make your gear look and sound good, why buy something so expensive? (Because you never heard it and played it in person) What guitar was that? Baker? (Baker Firemodel#55)  Does it give any value added to the sound you get when YOU play? (Yes it does -- why don't you come over and bring your guitar and compare it in person)
4. There are a lot of examples. Generally spekaing, get a well made body and upgrade the parts that match the guitar very well, and poof: TONE. (And Possibly a DEAD sounding guitar too)

[firemodel55]

Flame shield on.

Rolexm, play daw. Show him wat you've got. Lulz.
firemodel55, you're known to praise your gear a lot. Show us what you got (playing skills).

TURI, IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE MY CREDIBILITY,  JUST ASK IRA CRUZ. HE USED THE GUITAR ON THEIR MOST RECENT ALBUM AND WITH ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL THE ENGINEERS AT THE ANDY BRAUER STUDIO FELT THAT THE TRACKS DONE WITH THE BAKER SOUNDED BETTER.

Heard/Saw:
Joey Puyat's MIJ Squier. It's practical. And it REALLY sounds magical. And this was the first time I saw him play at a fund raising gig at Hobbit House last year.

BY THE WAY, THIS IS THE SAME JOEY PUYAT WHO SAID THAT MY BAKER#41 IS AN HEIRLOOM GUITAR AND HE REALLY LOVED IT A FEW MONTHS AGO.  IN FACT, ON THE SAME DAY I WAS TELLING HIM HOW IMPORTANT RS GUITARPOTS WHICH ARE NOW WHAT HE HAD INSTALLED ON HIS GUITAR JUST LAST WEEK.

Tried/Tested/Raped:
-MarkV's Ibanez RG (XXXX?). My kind of guitar too. He mentioned used and brand new prices. Practical. And it REALLY sounds magical.
WHY NOT TEST IT AGAINST MY SUHR MODERN
-My MIJ Standard Strat. Same. It's cheap. Practical and it REALLY sounds magical. And I really waited for this for almost three years until my good friend let it go.
WHY NOT TEST IT AGAINST MY SUHR STRAT -- HAND PICKED BY ED YOON AND THE GUYS AT THE SUHR FACTORY
Rolexm, your Ibanez 7 String sucks. Sorry man. Probably needs setup. But you're a good player.

TURI, YOU KNOW WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE SUHR GUYS, THEY ARE HONEST UNLIKE SOME HERE WHO ARE FULL OF AIR.  JUST RECENTLY, THEY HAD A BEAUTIFUL REB BEACH SPEC'ED OUT GUITAR COME OUT OF THE FACTORY BUT WITH A FINISHED KOA BODY.  I WROTE TO ED.  I REALLY BADLY WANTED THIS GUITAR BECAUSE IT WAS RARE FOR THE SUHR FACTORY TO PRODUCE A REB BEACH MODEL WITHOUT A CUSTOM ORDER.  I REMINDED ED ABOUT MY REQUIREMENTS AND ASKED HIM TO TEST IT.  AFTER A DAY, HE WROTE BACK AND TOLD ME THAT IT WOULD FALL SHORT OF MY EXPECTATIONS AND IT WAS NOT FOR ME DESPITE IT BEING A US$3600 GUITAR FOB.  JUST AN HOUR AGO I WAS HAVING A CHAT WITH A CLOSE LUTHIER FRIEND AND WE WERE JUST SO OVERWHELMED BY THE CONTRAST WE HAVE LOCALLY.  HERE WE HAVE LOCAL LUTHIERS ALWAYS SAYING GOOD THINGS ABOUT ALL THE GUITARS THAT THEY MAKE, YET WE HAVE A GUY FROM THE SUHR FACTORY WHO CAN EASILY MAKE A SALE AND YET SAY THAT IT WILL NOT MEET MY REQUIREMENTS.


Tone is in teh hair. I'm losing some but there I said it.

[BAMF]

Sounds like the time is ripe for another TONE PARTY, Turi .

Blind test syempre the guitarist and guitars will be hidden.

OT, I'm jealous of you Turi. The pedals I've modded for JP and the Gibson LP and MIJ Squier strat you saw which I scal...(cough) all "rotate". But the only thing constantly with him in gigs is the pedalboard you made for him (sob).

[IncX]

the more i read about Firemodel nowadays, the more i tend to believe his beliefs are "religious" ... its something you do not believe in, but cannot be proved or disproved.

in my experience, i own Warwicks (forgive me, im a bassist, but since were talking about gear in general, i could contribute) ... while it is not the "bass to rule them all" i actually dont see my basses as a step up to say an EB Musicman Stingray, or even a well-made MIM Fender Jazz Bass... i think the reason why my warwicks are more expensive are simply because it uses exotic wood and is built in Germany (where labor costs are higher than china or korea) ... they do not sound "UNIVERSALLY BETTER" than other well-made basses, but they are the sound for me.

i guess i know how to differentiate my taste from other people's taste and see why they would prefer Brand X over a Warwick.

so never in my life have i made a claim that Warwicks cream all the other basses because of this and that - similarly, i also never read Karel Honasan talk about how his Fodera's sound better compared to other basses (from what i know, he could possibly play a well made Aria and think it sounds good, even if its like $4000 cheaper than his Foderas).

now Firemodel...

he just believes that one piece of gear will rule them all and then gives "is that even true?" evidences... i mean, from the last thread i made, even something as small as "shielding" would make a noticeable tone different... or the size of frets, etc. etc. i mean, sure they do make a tone difference, but no way is it possible to make a guitar lose 5000 pts in tone just because of those factors.

and theres that hiyaw, the wah wah effect, the swirly effect, etc. etc. As far as im concerned, those things are like ghosts and duwendes ... some ppl claim its real and have even encountered them, but well ... have you seen a duwende? ... OK, i have never heard a guitar do the "swirly" thing too (although the well-made ones "sing" better).

it would have been OK if you read about those opinions from a lot of ppl, but truth is, i only hear those from him... and probably from Gene Baker or whoever is pitching his product, giving reasons why his $4000 guitar is better than the other $4000 guitar.

so in conclusion, Firemodel owns damn great gear... his Bakers and his Suhrs and his army of amps are probably one of the best sounding bunch of gear in the Philippines...

but no way is it the best gear in the world as he claims.

i use to believe in Firemodel, but right now... i just see him as a guy who buys good gear to talk/brag about them.

[turiguiliano]

Sounds like the time is ripe for another TONE PARTY, Turi .

Blind test syempre the guitarist and guitars will be hidden.

OT, I'm jealous of you Turi. The pedals I've modded for JP and the Gibson LP and MIJ Squier strat you saw which I scal...(cough) all "rotate". But the only thing constantly with him in gigs is the pedalboard you made for him (sob).

Another Tone party it is.

On the Pedal Board, thanks man. It's because of you that he asked me to do one. I'm giving him another this year as a replacement of his old one.

Credibility for your expensive gear? Sure, I believe you. Why not. But your skills man. Show us your skills the same way your boast to us about your gear.
Ira? He's your reference for tone? He's probably a good player to most but as my own preference I sure as hell didn't like his 'tone' on most of their albums.

On Mr. Joey Puyat - sure. I can believe that. He knows what he wants. RS pots. A friend told me about that. Will look into it. Worth a try, why not right?
I will quote myself on this:

Tried a Baker. Not for me.
Tried an R9. Not for me.
Tried MarkV's Ibanez RG (XXX?) TONE.

Tried a Gustav. Will try it again. 

 

And let me add to a Baker (Sorry friend, you know who you are, but it's just not for me) - I just didn't like the feel nor the tone it delivered.
I put my hands on an original 1977 LP Custom. Battered to death but all stock and it sounded better (for me, which means IMO). Raped it before it got modified with Timbuckers (yes, firemodel55, $700 used LP pickups) I have a 1992 LP custom also battered to death by the previous owner who was a drug addict for 15 years and it still delivered the tone that I wanted (and I am very very picky with the tone coming from a guitar)- and I bought this guitar DIRT CHEAP (there, practicality/cost). So cheap that you're gonna puke your guts out.


Modern Suhr vs MarkV's RG(XXXX?) - Sure. Bring it on. Will never say it's better than yours. But I am willing to do it. You and me. Tone and skills(and yes, I am a very bad guitar player). Closed doors or in public. To each his own amps. Or let's use both for comparison. Oh, let's take notes.

My MIJ Strat Standard all stock vs your Suhr Strat (hand picked...blah blah blah). I hand picked mine man. You had yours hand picked by some one else. Oh, and there was a 2 1/2 year wait for this. I am thinking that makes it boutique like your Suhr or your Baker? Don't get me wrong. I would love to own a few Suhr guitars (most especially) in the future. But for Bakers, I have yet to try a few more.

TURI, YOU KNOW WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE SUHR GUYS, THEY ARE HONEST UNLIKE SOME HERE WHO ARE FULL OF AIR.  JUST RECENTLY, THEY HAD A BEAUTIFUL REB BEACH SPEC'ED OUT GUITAR COME OUT OF THE FACTORY BUT WITH A FINISHED KOA BODY.  I WROTE TO ED.  I REALLY BADLY WANTED THIS GUITAR BECAUSE IT WAS RARE FOR THE SUHR FACTORY TO PRODUCE A REB BEACH MODEL WITHOUT A CUSTOM ORDER.  I REMINDED ED ABOUT MY REQUIREMENTS AND ASKED HIM TO TEST IT.  AFTER A DAY, HE WROTE BACK AND TOLD ME THAT IT WOULD FALL SHORT OF MY EXPECTATIONS AND IT WAS NOT FOR ME DESPITE IT BEING A US$3600 GUITAR FOB.  JUST AN HOUR AGO I WAS HAVING A CHAT WITH A CLOSE LUTHIER FRIEND AND WE WERE JUST SO OVERWHELMED BY THE CONTRAST WE HAVE LOCALLY.  HERE WE HAVE LOCAL LUTHIERS ALWAYS SAYING GOOD THINGS ABOUT ALL THE GUITARS THAT THEY MAKE, YET WE HAVE A GUY FROM THE SUHR FACTORY WHO CAN EASILY MAKE A SALE AND YET SAY THAT IT WILL NOT MEET MY REQUIREMENTS.

So, am I honest or am I full of air?
I don't know what you're thinking about local luthiers. Are they THAT bad to you? Their quality sucks?

I might have a few ideas why they will not meet your requirements. But of course you have to elaborate further on why this Ed guy from the Suhr factory/company can't do it for you. 

Oh, in case we do have that shoot out,  bring your Two-Rock Cables. I'll bring my practical and affordable Lava Clear Connect Cables. I don't have my Vovox Sonorous nor my Van Den Hul Cables yet. Let's try those too when they arrive.

Bring all your pedals too. I will bring mine.

All of them.
 

[turiguiliano]

Edit: LP's I mentioned above are all Gibson MIA.

[jimy james]

so in conclusion, Firemodel owns damn great gear... his Bakers and his Suhrs and his army of amps are probably one of the best sounding bunch of gear in the Philippines...

but no way is it the best gear in the world as he claims.

i use to believe in Firemodel, but right now... i just see him as a guy who buys good gear to talk/brag about them.

so in conclusion, Firemodel owns damn great gear... his Bakers and his Suhrs and his army of amps are probably one of the best sounding bunch of gear in the Philippines...

but no way is it the best gear in the world as he claims.

Alex may be compared to a boy scout who owns an AK-47
Uppps, my bad. Cub Scout lang pala. Boy Scouts have talents & Skills... While Cub Scouts are nubs...



i use to believe in Firemodel, but right now... i just see him as a guy who buys good gear to talk/brag about them.

Poor Little Rich Boy... All dressed up ( w/ his gears ); but nowhere to go. ( does he ever gig )

[jimy james]

SHOUTOUT!!! Ala CROSSROADS

I'll bring the...

[firemodel55]

the more i read about Firemodel nowadays, the more i tend to believe his beliefs are "religious" ... its something you do not believe in, but cannot be proved or disproved.

in my experience, i own Warwicks (forgive me, im a bassist, but since were talking about gear in general, i could contribute) ... while it is not the "bass to rule them all" i actually dont see my basses as a step up to say an EB Musicman Stingray, or even a well-made MIM Fender Jazz Bass... i think the reason why my warwicks are more expensive are simply because it uses exotic wood and is built in Germany (where labor costs are higher than china or korea) ... they do not sound "UNIVERSALLY BETTER" than other well-made basses, but they are the sound for me.

i guess i know how to differentiate my taste from other people's taste and see why they would prefer Brand X over a Warwick.

so never in my life have i made a claim that Warwicks cream all the other basses because of this and that - similarly, i also never read Karel Honasan talk about how his Fodera's sound better compared to other basses (from what i know, he could possibly play a well made Aria and think it sounds good, even if its like $4000 cheaper than his Foderas).

now Firemodel...

he just believes that one piece of gear will rule them all and then gives "is that even true?" evidences... i mean, from the last thread i made, even something as small as "shielding" would make a noticeable tone different... or the size of frets, etc. etc. i mean, sure they do make a tone difference, but no way is it possible to make a guitar lose 5000 pts in tone just because of those factors.

and theres that hiyaw, the wah wah effect, the swirly effect, etc. etc. As far as im concerned, those things are like ghosts and duwendes ... some ppl claim its real and have even encountered them, but well ... have you seen a duwende? ... OK, i have never heard a guitar do the "swirly" thing too (although the well-made ones "sing" better).

it would have been OK if you read about those opinions from a lot of ppl, but truth is, i only hear those from him... and probably from Gene Baker or whoever is pitching his product, giving reasons why his $4000 guitar is better than the other $4000 guitar.

so in conclusion, Firemodel owns damn great gear... his Bakers and his Suhrs and his army of amps are probably one of the best sounding bunch of gear in the Philippines...

but no way is it the best gear in the world as he claims.

i use to believe in Firemodel, but right now... i just see him as a guy who buys good gear to talk/brag about them.

I would just like to clarify that I have reduced my guitars down to 4 from a multitude of around 15 or so -- so thats nothing to brag about.  And infact, I have a friend who owns two Gustavsons and thats something to brag about.  But rather, I really believe in the work of Gene Baker and John Suhr -- if and only if you get the really great sounding ones.  Case in point, 3 out of these 4 guitars were not picked by me.  And I was even blunt to both Cliff Cultreri and Ed Yoon that some of their guitars were not up to par.  Nowadays, Cliff and Ed take the extra effort to make sure only the best of what they have is what I get and they do this I guess because of friendship.   

[firemodel55]

Another Tone party it is.

On the Pedal Board, thanks man. It's because of you that he asked me to do one. I'm giving him another this year as a replacement of his old one.

Credibility for your expensive gear? Sure, I believe you. Why not. But your skills man. Show us your skills the same way your boast to us about your gear.  (I BELIEVE WHEN IT COMES TO PLAYING, IT IS SOMETHING PERSONAL. YOU JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO SEPARATE EQUIPMENT FROM PLAYING. AS MOST SAY HERE, KANYA KANYA BUT YET A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HOLD ME AGAINST A DOUBLE STANDARD -- IN SHORT, PINAPAKAILAMAN ANG PLAYING NG IBA.)
Ira? He's your reference for tone? He's probably a good player to most but as my own preference I sure as hell didn't like his 'tone' on most of their albums.

On Mr. Joey Puyat - sure. I can believe that. He knows what he wants. RS pots. A friend told me about that. Will look into it. Worth a try, why not right? (YUP WORTH A TRY IF YOU LIKE TO BRING DOWN VOLUME FOR A DIFFERENT TONALITY)
I will quote myself on this: 

And let me add to a Baker (Sorry friend, you know who you are, but it's just not for me) - I just didn't like the feel nor the tone it delivered.
I put my hands on an original 1977 LP Custom. Battered to death but all stock and it sounded better (for me, which means IMO). Raped it before it got modified with Timbuckers (yes, firemodel55, $700 used LP pickups) I have a 1992 LP custom also battered to death by the previous owner who was a drug addict for 15 years and it still delivered the tone that I wanted (and I am very very picky with the tone coming from a guitar)- and I bought this guitar DIRT CHEAP (there, practicality/cost). So cheap that you're gonna puke your guts out.  (AS PREDICTABLE AS I CAN GET, GO TRY IT AGAINST MY BAKER#55 -- BY THE WAY, THE 55 IS A VERY EXCEPTIONAL BAKER AND EVEN AT THAT HEAVILY MODIFIED)


Modern Suhr vs MarkV's RG(XXXX?) - Sure. Bring it on. Will never say it's better than yours. But I am willing to do it. You and me. Tone and skills(and yes, I am a very bad guitar player). Closed doors or in public. To each his own amps. Or let's use both for comparison. Oh, let's take notes. (SURE.  I GLADLY INVITE YOU TO COME OVER. WHAT COME OVER TODAY?)

My MIJ Strat Standard all stock vs your Suhr Strat (hand picked...blah blah blah). I hand picked mine man. You had yours hand picked by some one else. (OH. HE IS NOT JUST SOMEONE ELSE.  HE USED TO RUN FENDER'S QC DEPARTMENT) Oh, and there was a 2 1/2 year wait for this. I am thinking that makes it boutique like your Suhr or your Baker? Don't get me wrong. I would love to own a few Suhr guitars (most especially) in the future. But for Bakers, I have yet to try a few more. (LIKE YOU, I HAVE ALSO TRIED SOME NOT SO GOOD SOUNDING BAKERS BUT I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION THAT THEIR BATTING AVERAGE IS HIGHER THAN MOST.  IN MY CASE, EARTH MODEL#41 WAS CLIFF CULTRERI'S PERSONAL GUITAR AND HE SOLD IT TO ME AT A TIME WHEN HE NEEDED MONEY FOR HIS MEDICAL TREATMENT.  FIREMODEL#55 WAS MORE OF GENE BAKER'S CONFIGURATION AND WHICH CLIFF TOLD ME CAME FROM THEIR PRIVATE STASH.  IN FACT, THE GUITAR WAS SHIPPED AND SET UP PERSONALLY BY GENE.


So, am I honest or am I full of air?
I don't know what you're thinking about local luthiers. Are they THAT bad to you? Their quality sucks? (YUP FOR MY REQUIREMENTS)

I might have a few ideas why they will not meet your requirements. But of course you have to elaborate further on why this Ed guy from the Suhr factory/company can't do it for you.  (I WILL SHOW YOU MY EMAIL TRAIL WITH HIM AND YOU FIRST NEED TO TEST THE SUHR MODERN TO UNDERSTAND THE STORY)

Oh, in case we do have that shoot out,  bring your Two-Rock Cables. I'll bring my practical and affordable Lava Clear Connect Cables. I don't have my Vovox Sonorous nor my Van Den Hul Cables yet. Let's try those too when they arrive.

Bring all your pedals too. I will bring mine. (MY HOUSE -- MY AMPS ARE JUST REALLY HEAVY WHICH IS THE NON PRACTICAL SIDE OF THINGS.  I PROPOSE THAT YOU GO TO MY HOUSE AND THEN I GO TO YOUR HOUSE.)

All of them.
 

[firemodel55]

so in conclusion, Firemodel owns damn great gear... his Bakers and his Suhrs and his army of amps are probably one of the best sounding bunch of gear in the Philippines...

but no way is it the best gear in the world as he claims.

Alex may be compared to a boy scout who owns an AK-47
Uppps, my bad. Cub Scout lang pala. Boy Scouts have talents & Skills... While Cub Scouts are nubs...



i use to believe in Firemodel, but right now... i just see him as a guy who buys good gear to talk/brag about them.

Poor Little Rich Boy... All dressed up ( w/ his gears ); but nowhere to go. ( does he ever gig )

AS TO HOW I CHOSE TO EARN A LIVING AND LIVE MY LIFE THATS MY BUSINESS, IF AND ONLY IF GIGGING COULD PAY ME MORE THAN WHAT I AM EARNING NOW THEN I WOULD GLADLY GIG THE REST OF MY LIFE. 

[Filthy]

i've not read all the past post in this thread but on how i understand this thread, this is what i want to say. i have tried some expensive guitars like the PRS custom semi hollowed archtop. i think my manager bought it about 200 thousand pesos and it looks magnificent, but i think a much cheaper Ibanez RG feels and sounds better for me. well its just my opinion  .

[firemodel55]

In my experience, improvement in quality comes in huge gobs in the 10k-70k range; after that, it's really trickles. Nothin' wrong with trickles if you can afford it. The problem only really comes if you seek validation all the time for a 150k guitar you bought that was owned by an entry-level jap copy. Or you want people to say that your MIC Les is as good as a Gibby. If you really know what you want, it shouldn't even matter. There will always be people who would think that your gear sucks, or is not worth it, or whatever, but so long as you think it delivers regardless of price or brand, then there shouldn't be any argument.

I would like to point out that I used to praise Japanese Knock offs because they beat the real deal.  But now with the really good sounding USA made luthier stuff, they have something that a guitar in the 10k-70k does not have.  So its not a matter of trickles and its a matter of deciding if you need a certain capability or not.  

[firemodel55]

i've not read all the past post in this thread but on how i understand this thread, this is what i want to say. i have tried some expensive guitars like the PRS custom semi hollowed archtop. i think my manager bought it about 200 thousand pesos and it looks magnificent, but i think a much cheaper Ibanez RG feels and sounds better for me. well its just my opinion  .

Have you tried a P200k Suhr Modern?  I used to love and own Jap Ibanez and am familiar with them but they just cannot compare to a really great sounding Suhr Modern -- by the way, just for to set the record straight, my Suhr Modern is also heavily modified.

[firemodel55]

Btw, just to share... If you check the Gibson book, their guitars were once made with Philippine Mahogany! Proud to be pinoy! 

If you check the real bursts, they were made of Honduran Mahogany and with Brazilian rosewood fingerboard.  Proud to be Brazilian!!!

[turiguiliano]

Oh, I can't separate equipment from playing. I am constantly learning. Both my skills and gear. Before it was the other way around. I am trying something new. 

RS Pots/kit - I will.

Would love to try both Bakers that you have and compare it myself.

I'd rather bring all my gear to your house as I can imagine it would be a better place to do the comparison. Not today. One weekend for sure. Prior to the GAS Day.

Hand picked - I personally like to pick my own gear. Deemed useless by most or not.

Baker again - I'll try what you have. #41 and #55 right?

Luthiers - you serious?

Suhr - email trail - i'd rather you just tell me in person than look at something personal. And I WILL test your Suhrs.

My own conclusion for this:
firemodel55. done deal. we meet then. let's try this weekend or the next. I work at very weird  hours. I will coordinate with MarkV so I may borrow his axe for the meet. Either it's just you and me or up to you to request an audience.

[Phil]

...my god....you guys ever think this is just gears?... ..cccchhhhhiiiiilllllll.

it's like....." My robot is da best....your robot is poo poo."