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Author Topic: Pessimism: the good and the bad  (Read 7964 times)

Offline kornbip99

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Pessimism: the good and the bad
« on: October 05, 2009, 11:46:33 AM »
I'm sorry guys but i just have to vent out.

I hate those people who say that record labels and MTV and MYX and whatever have done nothing but "ruin" music!

Shut up!

If it weren't for labels then how the hell would we here in the Philippines know all about The Sex Pistols, Bob Marley, The Who and even newer bands like Green Day and tons of other great foreign bands who we've come to love and respect?! huh?! Do you think their records would just magically produce and replicate and multiply and fly off to different continents on their own? Remember that these bands were supposed to be "fighting" the "man" but it was actually the "man" who was helping them spread their music and their cause. You could say that the labels were using them but weren't they using the labels as well? You scratch my back and i'll scratch yours! isn't that how it goes?!

Yes, these days though, labels are a far cry from what they once were. But isn't it mostly the same for everything else. I personally believe that some things start out noble with noble ideals. Like labels! I believe that the labels were started out by people who actually believed the band/music that they were producing and only wanted to share this with the world!

These days though, you can't blame the labels for looking out for their best interests by signing only the "safe" bands and artists. What's even worse is they have these "safe" artists sing only "safe" songs. Revisions of hits of the old. Ring any bells?

Yes, i agree! The labels suck and they suck to the bones for having artists do this and for lowering the bar that they once set so high, but don't go around parading on your pretentious high horse and saying that they've never done anything good for music.

And that goes the same from calling bands and people sell outs! Bands like Green Day, Simple Plan, Avril Lavigne, Blink 182 and etc... Some people say they're poseurs just because they act and look punk but play POP-PUNK which some people also say don't go or should never go together. Shut Up! They make good music. Period! You effing hate them? Then go listen to something else men! Or read the article above and change the word "label" to the name of these bands - use common sense along the way of course!

Thanks you Philmu for letting me vent. :-) I'm all good now.

The source of my anger: http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/getback/144976/hot-topic-punks-in-a-fake-punk-world/
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 03:15:08 PM by kornbip99 »

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 12:03:10 PM »
I'm sorry guys but i just have to vent out.

I hate those people who say that record labels and MTV and MYX and whatever have done nothing but "ruin" music!

Shut up!

If it weren't for labels then how the hell would we here in the Philippines know all about The Sex Pistols, Bob Marley, The Who and even newer bands like Green Day and tons of other great foreign bands who we've come to love and respect?! huh?! Do you think their records would just magically produce and replicate and multiply and fly off to different continents on their own? Remember that these bands were supposed to be "fighting" the "man" but it was actually the "man" who was helping them spread their music and their cause. You could say that the labels were using them but weren't they using the labels as well? You scratch my back and i'll scratch yours! isn't that how it goes?!

Yes, these days though, labels are a far cry from what they once were. But isn't it mostly the same for everything else. I personally believe that some things start out noble with noble ideals. Like labels! I believe that the labels were started out by people who actually believed the band/music that they were producing and only wanted to share this with the world!

These days though, you can't blame the labels for looking out for their best interests by signing only the "safe" bands and artists. What's even worse is they have these "safe" artists sing only "safe" songs. Revisions of hits of the old. Ring any bells?

Yes, i agree! The labels suck and they suck to the bones for having artists do this and for lowering the bar that they once set so high, but don't go around parading on your pretentious high horse and saying that they've never done anything good for music.

And that goes the same from calling bands and people sell outs! Bands like Green Day, Simple Plan, Avril Lavigne, Blink 182 and etc... Some people say they're poseurs just because they act and look punk but play POP-PUNK which some people also say don't go or should never go together. Shut Up! They make good music. Period! You effing hate them? Then go listen to something else men! Or read the article above and change the word "label" to the name of these bands - use common sense along the way of course!

Thanks you Philmu for letting me vent. :-) I'm all good now.

The source of my anger: http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/getback/144976/hot-topic-punks-in-a-fake-punk-world/

Man, the real problem is, people in the record business know more about Wall Street than they know music.  :D

Look at the WHOLE picture man.  If you think all signed artists are happy with their label's treatment, then tell me why Prince can't even call himself Prince? 

No one is saying labels are absolute scumbags.  It's just clear that they milk more money out of the artists than what the artists truly deserve, all because they fell on the trapdoor of full-scale marketing from total obscurity.  And have you heard about LABEL PRESSURES?  Do you really want a perfectly-arranged song to be butchered by your own record company, simply because "it is not pop enough?"  I have heard stories of bands who walked out of the studio with all smiles because they were elated about their final mix.  Came a week later, point their rants at the  studio because some label guy said, "Your song doesn't sound good for radio..." 

Have you heard of bands ranting because each member cannot even get a copy of his own label-exec-produced CD?  And the label guys tell them to buy them at the record bars?

Have you heard of artists saying they never got compensated when some foreign film used their song?

Have you heard of labels literally duping artists to hold their rights to the songs for all eternity?  And funny thing was the artists had no idea about the contracts they were signing... they just wanted to get SIGNED.

Artists are practically EMPLOYEES of a record company.  There is a chain of command, and you'll deal with dumb executives, as with other companies.  And yes, it is not all good.

At the end of the day, it's all about how much you are willing to do for fame, and frankly, money doesn't go with that if you talk about the local industry.

Offline kornbip99

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 12:08:54 PM »
Man, the real problem is, people in the record business know more about Wall Street than they know music.  :D

Look at the WHOLE picture man.  If you think all signed artists are happy with their label's treatment, then tell me why Prince can't even call himself Prince?  

No one is saying labels are absolute scumbags.  It's just clear that they milk more money out of the artists than what the artists truly deserve, all because they fell on the trapdoor of full-scale marketing from total obscurity.  And have you heard about LABEL PRESSURES?  Do you really want a perfectly-arranged song to be butchered by your own record company, simply because "it is not pop enough?"  I have heard stories of bands who walked out of the studio with all smiles because they were elated about their final mix.  Came a week later, point their rants at the  studio because some label guy said, "Your song doesn't sound good for radio..."  

Have you heard of bands ranting because each member cannot even get a copy of his own label-exec-produced CD?  And the label guys tell them to buy them at the record bars?

Have you heard of artists saying they never got compensated when some foreign film used their song?

Have you heard of labels literally duping artists to hold their rights to the songs for all eternity?  And funny thing was the artists had no idea about the contracts they were signing... they just wanted to get SIGNED.

Artists are practically EMPLOYEES of a record company.  There is a chain of command, and you'll deal with dumb executives, as with other companies.  And yes, it is not all good.

At the end of the day, it's all about how much you are willing to do for fame, and frankly, money doesn't go with that if you talk about the local industry.

Yup. I have heard of all those things and i have looked at the bigger picture that's why i was able to find some of the good things about them, albeit rare and few. If you remember I did say that they mostly do totally sucky things and that labels are different from what they once were. Like politicians. Some of them start out honestly thinking that they'd stay out of corruption and really make a difference but then,because of the system that was already there long before he or his ancestors were born, he becomes the very thing he hates.

All i'm saying dude is NO ONE can say that labels NEVER did anything good.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 12:14:35 PM by kornbip99 »

Offline kornbip99

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 12:25:17 PM »
I guess who i really wanted to defend are these awesome pop punk artists like blink182, geenday, simple plan, avril, and good charlotte and a whole bunch more but in order to do that, i'd need to partly defend that which made them famous, the labels.

Take Green Day for example. They were the big dogs of 924 Gilman Street (a Berkeley, CA punk club dedicated to independent punk music) but when they made it big, they were immediately branded poster boys for major label sellouts. And now, they can't even show their faces there for risk of getting a beating. It's just not fair. You can't say to me that green day doesn't love the music their making. You think billy joe would take that crap from any record label exec?! No! He'd say, come near these master recordings and i'll effing stick this guitar up your corporate a$$! He loves his music and would defend it to the death.

Please note however that this does not apply in the Philippine music scene. :-(
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 12:27:36 PM by kornbip99 »

Offline BassCog

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2009, 01:52:34 PM »
Ganito lang yun.

Don't give a horse's hind part about what other people think. Don't complain - the more you do, the more you sound defensive.

Just do what you think is right for your band, with your band's consent.

All the people who complain, they're not in your shoes. they wouldn't know, they just assume out of what they perceive. Why get pissed? maawa ka na lang.

Labels are gigantic production and marketing machines that need to pay the collective salaries of everybody in the line. And all that is to get the product (your band and your music) out in the market. Of course, they'll want a say. Sometimes, this works out well - Blink and Green Day are great examples.

Avril Lavigne - Country or Punk?
Avril is a special case, as she was formerly firmly in country music (at an early age winning a contest to sing along with Shania Twain in a live concert), but wanted to go punk. You can imagine how the label execs figured that it may be a profitable risk - near loli-girl with punk look, but with a great voice and fresh attitude. Still, there has been considerable backtalk on her career musical direction versus what she really likes.

Avril's situation is a perfect example of the complexity of dealing with major labels. Essentially, they "suggested" the best course of action for her, and she was, in some ways, willing to take those suggestions. But in the end, as a listener, I feel that her best songs are her ballads - which are decidedly country in flavor. So did she or did she not sell out? I'd say she took her chances with what she thought was best. Sell out? define that, if you're making a life out of music. Chances are, selling out becomes a naive concept.

many, if not most people in this forum and outside of it will never have to think of these life choices as actual ones. So it's easy for them to give their two cents and call any band or musical figure a sell out if they feel the person doesn't match up to their standards. Heck, if music publications are guilty of that in some cases, so why shouldn't normal people be?

So the best defense you can give is to not defend the labels - because they don't really care. Why would major labels care about a simple forum in a third world country? The best way to go about it is to simply care about what your band does, work for your band, and just do what's right for the band, regardless if you're indie or major, punk or pop, metal or ballad.

And never call anyone else a poseur, because frankly, we all have been labeled or were poserus at one point or another in our lives. Calling someone else a poseur is like the old saying: "one finger pointing at others, three pointing back at you."


Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 02:15:38 PM »
the way I see it, nanliligaw si kornbip sa record labels. 

This is how people get signed.  RUB YOUR MUSIC IN THEIR FACES, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.

Offline kornbip99

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2009, 02:15:51 PM »

All the people who complain, they're not in your shoes. they wouldn't know, they just assume out of what they perceive. Why get pissed? maawa ka na lang.


Agreed. :-)


The best way to go about it is to simply care about what your band does, work for your band, and just do what's right for the band, regardless if you're indie or major, punk or pop, metal or ballad.


Exactly.



And never call anyone else a poseur, because frankly, we all have been labeled or were poserus at one point or another in our lives. Calling someone else a poseur is like the old saying: "one finger pointing at others, three pointing back at you."


True. But in the case of my topic subject, just giving them a taste of their own medicine. I'm bringing their sh*t back at their doorstep. Have them see how it feels. respectfully, i will edit the subject. Anyway, it's for the person who sees this to decide. "Bato bato sa langit, matamaan...SAPUL! :-D

« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 03:13:53 PM by kornbip99 »

Offline kornbip99

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2009, 02:28:22 PM »
the way I see it, nanliligaw si kornbip sa record labels.  

This is how people get signed.  RUB YOUR MUSIC IN THEIR FACES, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH.

Not really. I'm just saying it as it is. Some people prefer to be pessimistic and see the bad things in everything. I prefer to see the good. Of course i don't disregard the bad else risk history repeating itself.

It's really strange how people assume that just because you're doing/saying good about something or someone that you want to get something out if it? Pity. Skunkyfunk, like what BassCog said, "Why would major labels care about a simple forum in a third world country?". Yes, i want to get signed. That may not be the case for other bands and i respect that. But i on the other hand want to. To each his own. And if can prevent the things that BassCog said from happening to us then why not right? All I'm saying is that i said those things about the labels simply because i believe what i say.

And you know what, I will rub it in their face as you say and I will handle the truth. A truth that apparently YOU CAN"T HANDLE yourself! If I fail, i'll come back again and again and again and there's nothing that you say that can bring me down because people like you who bring people down and say, You can't do it, or it's impossible, or you don't stand a chance, or RUB YOUR MUSIC IN THEIR FACES, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH, are the reason why some people simply don't try and end up wasting their lives thinking of what could've been. I WILL NOT BE THAT PERSON! :-P

Sorry for being so blunt but if people said things like that to me, i take it personally. I just hope you realize how awful and hurtful it was that you said especially if you don't even know of what we're capable of yet. I know the truth of the industry. I've had lectures from BassCog, Digitalcyco and a whole bunch more of the situation in the Philippine music industry. I know how hard it is but that doesn't give you the right to tell me right now that i'll fail. No one does.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 03:36:09 PM by kornbip99 »

Offline Letour

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2009, 02:51:41 PM »
Man, the real problem is, people in the record business know more about Wall Street than they know music.  :D

Look at the WHOLE picture man.  If you think all signed artists are happy with their label's treatment, then tell me why Prince can't even call himself Prince? 

No one is saying labels are absolute scumbags.  It's just clear that they milk more money out of the artists than what the artists truly deserve, all because they fell on the trapdoor of full-scale marketing from total obscurity.  And have you heard about LABEL PRESSURES?  Do you really want a perfectly-arranged song to be butchered by your own record company, simply because "it is not pop enough?"  I have heard stories of bands who walked out of the studio with all smiles because they were elated about their final mix.  Came a week later, point their rants at the  studio because some label guy said, "Your song doesn't sound good for radio..." 

Have you heard of bands ranting because each member cannot even get a copy of his own label-exec-produced CD?  And the label guys tell them to buy them at the record bars?

Have you heard of artists saying they never got compensated when some foreign film used their song?

Have you heard of labels literally duping artists to hold their rights to the songs for all eternity?  And funny thing was the artists had no idea about the contracts they were signing... they just wanted to get SIGNED.

Artists are practically EMPLOYEES of a record company.  There is a chain of command, and you'll deal with dumb executives, as with other companies.  And yes, it is not all good.

At the end of the day, it's all about how much you are willing to do for fame, and frankly, money doesn't go with that if you talk about the local industry.

Dude, I am impressed. Your reply is definitive of what has happened the music industry. But with new and cheaper technology and with guys like you offering services at affordable rates, musicians today will have a greater say in the development of their art. Of course, for every success story, there will be a large ratio of failures.

The medium of the Internet is creating a new medium for musicians. Youtube, and networking sites (Multiply, myspace and Facebook) offer free outlets to showcast talents. People should take advantage of these opportunities.

Favor lang to the phimusic forumites: Please do not download illegally (meaning unauthorized). You think you are helping the artist but the long term effects harm more than help.
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Offline kornbip99

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 02:56:04 PM »
Dude, I am impressed. Your reply is definitive of what has happened the music industry. But with new and cheaper technology and with guys like you offering services at affordable rates, musicians today will have a greater say in the development of their art. Of course, for every success story, there will be a large ratio of failures.

The medium of the Internet is creating a new medium for musicians. Youtube, and networking sites (Multiply, myspace and Facebook) offer free outlets to showcast talents. People should take advantage of these opportunities.

Favor lang to the phimusic forumites: Please do not download illegally (meaning unauthorized). You think you are helping the artist but the long term effects harm more than help.

I can't agree more.

Offline jazzhole04

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2009, 02:58:07 PM »
naiintindihan ko naman si kornbip . its every bands dream to be signed and have a contract.

recording companies are no different from offices that hire people that would would help thenm make more money. meron bawal ang hikaw at longair, meron naman pwede. then if hopeful employees (the musicians) cant pass the 1st interview but think they have soooooo much potential to do the job, they start their own business (independent). ganun lang naman e.

we cant beat the system. we could make movements and statements.....but we CANT beat the system.

i believe naman all music has its place in this world.

mass appealing music for record companies and the UNDERGROUND for the nitch audience genres.

you can mix bussiness and art in a box. pero we cant make a world of grandmas to love slipknot ( at least in the next few decades or so )  :mrgreen:


OPINION LNG.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 03:01:15 PM by jazzhole04 »
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Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2009, 03:42:01 PM »
Just for thought:

Before the internet, you there was only heaven and hell for artists:  BEING SIGNED or BEING UNSIGNED.  There was no middle ground.  You either had the funding of a label for a decent studio recording or you had a crap demo done on 4-track, which hopefully would land on the arms of an *interested* label exec so they can give you better funding for a full-blown record production.

In the past, labels had the might to distribute music because there was little to no piracy.  hey, how can you pirate a vinyl record?  Even CDs were hard to pirate unless you wanted to dub cassettes forever. 

Of course, greed was prevalent in the label industry.  Artists wanted fame and money, label execs wanted money from record sales. 

But since the dawn of the mp3 format, cheap CD-Rs and drives, it totally toppled the  oligarchy of record distribution.  Of course, the technology has its pros and cons but IMO, today is healthiest time to make music.  Why?  Because you have all the means to be heard even if you had no radio or TV airplay.  The viral approach works well in this case.  Internet Radio, social networking sites, etc. - this is where you gather your TRUE fans.  The numbers don't matter.  The safety in numbers applies only if you wanna make a huge profit off of album sales (which is on a huge slump right now.) 

Musicologists look for music.  Passive listeners on the other hand, just digest what is on TV or radio.  Pick your poison. 

PS  Buy CDs.  Nothing beats physical proof of support for an artist.

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2009, 03:55:01 PM »
Not really. I'm just saying it as it is. Some people prefer to be pessimistic and see the bad things in everything. I prefer to see the good. Of course i don't disregard the bad else risk history repeating itself.

It's really strange how people assume that just because you're doing/saying good about something or someone that you want to get something out if it? Pity. Skunkyfunk, like what BassCog said, "Why would major labels care about a simple forum in a third world country?". Yes, i want to get signed. That may not be the case for other bands and i respect that. But i on the other hand want to. To each his own. And if can prevent the things that BassCog said from happening to us then why not right? All I'm saying is that i said those things about the labels simply because i believe what i say.

And you know what, I will rub it in their face as you say and I will handle the truth. A truth that apparently YOU CAN"T HANDLE yourself! If I fail, i'll come back again and again and again and there's nothing that you say that can bring me down because people like you who bring people down and say, You can't do it, or it's impossible, or you don't stand a chance, or RUB YOUR MUSIC IN THEIR FACES, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH, are the reason why some people simply don't try and end up wasting their lives thinking of what could've been. I WILL NOT BE THAT PERSON! :-P

Sorry for being so blunt but if people said things like that to me, i take it personally. I just hope you realize how awful and hurtful it was that you said especially if you don't even know of what we're capable of yet. I know the truth of the industry. I've had lectures from BassCog, Digitalcyco and a whole bunch more of the situation in the Philippine music industry. I know how hard it is but that doesn't give you the right to tell me right now that i'll fail. No one does.

Have you heard of the saying "Do not shoot the messenger..."?

Frankly my friend, while all of us seem like we're ganging up on you, we're just saying "ARE YOU SURE????" in different ways. 
 
If for you this means PESSIMISM, we just don't want you to be over-optimistic.  Over-optimism and hope are two different things... the latter being coupled with awareness and the former is simply about dreaming.  And if you know the ins- and outs monetarily of the record companies you'll understand why it is not easy to get signed anymore.

Offline kornbip99

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2009, 04:07:16 PM »
Have you heard of the saying "Do not shoot the messenger..."?

Frankly my friend, while all of us seem like we're ganging up on you, we're just saying "ARE YOU SURE????" in different ways.  
 
If for you this means PESSIMISM, we just don't want you to be over-optimistic.  Over-optimism and hope are two different things... the latter being coupled with awareness and the former is simply about dreaming.  And if you know the ins- and outs monetarily of the record companies you'll understand why it is not easy to get signed anymore.

I do understand. I know that you're all just warning me of the hard road ahead and trust me, i am aware of how hard that road is coming from the words of the experienced musicians in this forum and outside and from my own current experiences. Sincerely I say that i really appreciate it and thank you the heads up. I will heed all your advice. But that is the path I really want to go and with hard work, dedication and determination and all of the Philmu guys' advice, maybe, just maybe we'd make it (in the classic sense). So to answer your question...yes, i'm sure.

Over optimism can be a bad thing i agree. It blinds people to the truth. But i have 20/20 vision, literally and figuratively. Optimism is just one of the things that helps me stay focused on my dream. I both want and need it. If my bubble does burst, don't worry, like i said, i can handle it.

Sorry for shooting you. I just didn't take too kindly to what you said before.

Thanks nonetheless. I do agree with what you said about today being the healthiest time to make music what with developments in the internet and all.

P.S. I changed the topic subject cause giving it more thought, the term "poseur" is quite derogatory.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 04:14:04 PM by kornbip99 »

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2009, 04:16:46 PM »
naiintindihan ko naman si kornbip . its every bands dream to be signed and have a contract.

recording companies are no different from offices that hire people that would would help thenm make more money. meron bawal ang hikaw at longair, meron naman pwede. then if hopeful employees (the musicians) cant pass the 1st interview but think they have soooooo much potential to do the job, they start their own business (independent). ganun lang naman e.

we cant beat the system. we could make movements and statements.....but we CANT beat the system.

i believe naman all music has its place in this world.

mass appealing music for record companies and the UNDERGROUND for the nitch audience genres.

you can mix bussiness and art in a box. pero we cant make a world of grandmas to love slipknot ( at least in the next few decades or so )  :mrgreen:


OPINION LNG.



What do artists think about CONTRACT SIGNING as a whole?  The way I understand it, artists think "IT IS THE TICKET TO STARDOM"!

Has anyone even bothered to know what is in the contract?  The binding agreements, the clauses?  Do you know that some contracts do not allow you to declare you are married or in a relationship?  Do you know that some contracts indicate you cannot say NO if your label uses your song in a shampoo commercial?  Do you know some contracts are FOREVER?  Do you know that the HAPPY BIRTHDAY song is owned by Warner? They can sue you if you sing that in public!

I'll give an example.  Johnny Alegre is one hell of a guitarplayer.  He used to be signed under CANDID (which has its foreign distribution powers) but I'd hardly call him famous.  "Famous" amongst jazz cats but not 'famous' in a George Benson context.

There is this artist I know who wanted to buy back the rights of their album because he was upset about their CDs being sold P50 a piece to clear them out.  So, he asks the label  how much they'd sell it.  HAHA.  1M PER SONG.    So out of frustration, they sold pirated copies of their own CD during gigs!  One good way to give the middle finger to your record company.

Think about it.  Why are there album leaks?  Sure, there is a huge percentage the label didn't do it.  Maybe the media copies are the culprit.  But mind you, EVEN ARTISTS LEAK THEIR OWN ALBUMS out of hate for their record label.  

I'm just trying to show kornbip the whole picture.  It's not enough to know it is happening.  I'm not hoping to pull  the "I told you so..." card either.  It is rooted on GENUINE concern.

Offline jazzhole04

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Re: I hate the "real" poseurs!
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2009, 05:21:30 PM »
[quote author=skunkyfunk link=topic=152826.msg2046672#msg2046672 date=1254730606

I'm just trying to show kornbip the whole picture.  It's not enough to know it is happening.  I'm not hoping to pull  the "I told you so..." card either.  It is rooted on GENUINE concern.

[/quote]

yup i get you bra, but what kornbips trying to say is that we dont ALWAYS have to be pessimistic about whats on tv or radio.

bussiness is bussiness talaga sa recording companies. sabi mo nga para kang empleyado sa isang opisina.

like any other line of work, you gotta do what is expected from you kahit di mo gusto. if ur a chef u cant just cook ur favorite dishes. if ur an artist in MARVEL you cant just choose wc title to draw. lets just say that recording companies are no place for musical idealists, purist etc.

no worries. and thanks for the heads up sa contracts.  :-)

cgro the real problem is ...some people dont READ.
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Offline chuck sabbath

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2009, 06:16:39 PM »
"recording companies are no place for musical idealists"

this.

there was a time when you could actually do a whole album with little to no interference from the label. you might get a subtle "hint" that a "single" would be nice and that it may have to be cut/edited a bit to fit playlist requirements but thats it "artistic freedom" and all that...

it got a bit funny with all the bands proclaiming that "we get to do what we want in the studio and f*ck the label" when most record companies back then were quite happy to let a band do what they wanted as long as they got a single out of it. if the album tanks then the label just quietly withdraws support and the band dies a slow death. ah the days when the band actually got an advance off future album sales AND the label pays for the recording, repro, PR, tours etc etc (yes im aware that they recoup those expenses from future sales)! but really, break up the band and thank you mister label man no further obligations see you around

alas no more :(

What do artists think about CONTRACT SIGNING as a whole?  The way I understand it, artists think "IT IS THE TICKET TO STARDOM"!

yeah common error, when its actually a contract to "work" or perform a service for the label.

Quote
Has anyone even bothered to know what is in the contract?  The binding agreements, the clauses?  Do you know that some contracts do not allow you to declare you are married or in a relationship?  Do you know that some contracts indicate you cannot say NO if your label uses your song in a shampoo commercial?

anyone who doesnt have a lawyer read through the contract is a fool. i dont know if any current local band contracts are so draconian as to restrict members from divulging marital/relationship status...maybe boy bands? idk...

but yeah most contracts have a clause wherein the label is allowed to use the recorded material for whatever purpose it sees fit*...and as skunky said getting out of the deal can be expensive**...unless you have smb, cherifer, or united american tikitiki waiting on your song just forget it and write new ones

*had a song meant for an epic monseur del rosario fight scene but it got cancelled
**last i heard my band's album would be freed up for P40k--bargain bin hehe, i think theyre just trying to get their advance back hehe sorry i may have been born yesterday but i stayed up all night

basically you (the artist) owns the song and will always be credited for it; no one can take that away from you. but as to how/when/if the song/s will be used is entirely up to the label. and yes it was quite common for contracts to assign the publishing rights to a label for life. dont know how it is now...

Quote
So out of frustration, they sold pirated copies of their own CD during gigs!  One good way to give the middle finger to your record company.

good way to be sued too
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Offline digitalcyco

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2009, 08:53:59 PM »
medyo OT lang after reading through the entire forum.

Mr Kornbip to be quite frank you are too focused on making it big.
.

What happens if you don't? You might be setting yourself up for a giant heartbreak because you expect too much from your band.

Enjoy the ride while you can, success is just a bonus.

Its not bad to have an ambition and be optimistic about it.

Just play your cards right. We all get our chances in one way or another.

If we don't make it after 30-40 years of struggling, well we can always call it a day.

 :wink:

We've been signed to a major label for a year for Muziklaban. We never got paid a single centavo of royalties even if I hear our music on commercial soundtracks, and even on downloadable SMART and GLOBE ringtones and callback tones.


What was the feeling signing a contract for a major label? It was AWESOME. The hangover lasted a month. It felt like the pinnacle of my "career".

We played festivals and promotionals for Red Horse after that, got paid a good (actually, big) amount and the booze was free and bottomless. The entire barkada plus hanger-ons got to drink the 6 cases of beer they would hand us EVERY GIG. It was a great experience, our band jumped from amateur to professional in just a week, despite not winning (we tied for champion but a tie-breaker vote among judges landed us 2nd in muziklaban 2006)

It was fun while it lasted.  :wink:

But by the way, prior to that we had been playing for 12 years. So it wasnt just handed to us in a silver platter so to speak. We prepared to assault muziklaban for a year and it paid off, because the previous year we never made it past demos. :wink:

So you see now we're back here in Bacolod, playing gigs for friends and having happy moshpits with people we know, getting paid with a few bottles of beer or sometimes none at all, and we actually find it more satisfying than playing to 40,000 orcs moshing blindly to our music.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 09:19:06 PM by digitalcyco »
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Offline BassCog

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2009, 11:16:52 PM »
Since a few people here have shared their experiences about music, I'll go with mine.

Been playing since 1987 or so in various barkada bands. Ended up playing with people who would later on be famous in their own right.

Come the new millennium, got a phone call from an old bandmate (and a very good friend). I join up with the band, going straight from new wave and into metal. We start by practicing for almost a year before playing. We played gigs where we could.

Since we couldn't find gigs, some of the band members founded a production, tried to hook up with other metal bands, so that a round-robin among the productions by the bands could be started. We were taken advantage of, and in the end the guys closed the production, since it was not profitable, both money-wise or mentally. But it was worth its weight in gold in experience, so to speak. We learned then that if we're going to do this band thing, we would do it on our own terms.

We kept on gigging, eventually landing a major label contract of sorts. Since I was a legal management major for part of my school life, I took a look and was horrified by the clauses. We laid down our terms, and said we wouldn't sign unless the changes were implemented. Middleman says sure, but when the contract comes back...they just changed where the nasty clauses were placed in the contract. We only signed after a clean contract according to our terms was given. Even then, we had to accede that if we were to ever come out with the songs we gave to them, we would have to rerecord it - they would own the recording of the songs, essentially. Given how our sound was evolving, it was no problem...after we dropped the two songs from our playlist, we haven't played them live since.

Eventually, one of us decides: form a studio, and later on, a record label.

He started talking to other bands, and eventually it happens: a record label. Selective or little radio or TV/Cable exposure, but somehow we sell albums. We eventually tour. We've had two tours so far, and this year, we've just gone to our first out-of-town gig that required an airplane. We're surprised that people over in Bacolod know our stuff.

Through all this, I have kept the faith. I have avoided getting jobs that would kill my nights and weekends - I even resigned from a job that was fairly lucrative, in part because it was taking too much time away from my band and the music.

I have always believed.

9 years going. 22 if you count since I held a bass guitar.

But my belief is to simply go out there with my bass, with my band, and to just play. screw getting rich and famous - that's just extra sauce on top, after all we've been through.

edit: not exactly screw getting rich and famous, but to be honest, I think it's still luck/x factor. I would appreciate the money (finally, bayad ang lahat ng gamit ko without having to use my money from somewhere else), and i won't mind the fame (who hates being famous, really?). It's just that right now, I guess, my mindset is: live, let live, enjoy life, it's the only one we got. If you hassle yourself too much, then just let go, and do what you think you should.

what matters is that there are nights when i plug in my bass, and when I hear that right "thump" in my chest, I can close my eyes, fret the note and I can hear a part of my life in the songs.

"Aum" by way of metal music.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 01:30:24 AM by BassCog »

Offline kornbip99

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2009, 09:48:13 AM »
medyo OT lang after reading through the entire forum.

Mr Kornbip to be quite frank you are too focused on making it big.
.

What happens if you don't? You might be setting yourself up for a giant heartbreak because you expect too much from your band.

Enjoy the ride while you can, success is just a bonus.

Its not bad to have an ambition and be optimistic about it.

Just play your cards right. We all get our chances in one way or another.

If we don't make it after 30-40 years of struggling, well we can always call it a day.

 :wink:

We've been signed to a major label for a year for Muziklaban. We never got paid a single centavo of royalties even if I hear our music on commercial soundtracks, and even on downloadable SMART and GLOBE ringtones and callback tones.


What was the feeling signing a contract for a major label? It was AWESOME. The hangover lasted a month. It felt like the pinnacle of my "career".

We played festivals and promotionals for Red Horse after that, got paid a good (actually, big) amount and the booze was free and bottomless. The entire barkada plus hanger-ons got to drink the 6 cases of beer they would hand us EVERY GIG. It was a great experience, our band jumped from amateur to professional in just a week, despite not winning (we tied for champion but a tie-breaker vote among judges landed us 2nd in muziklaban 2006)

It was fun while it lasted.  :wink:

But by the way, prior to that we had been playing for 12 years. So it wasnt just handed to us in a silver platter so to speak. We prepared to assault muziklaban for a year and it paid off, because the previous year we never made it past demos. :wink:

So you see now we're back here in Bacolod, playing gigs for friends and having happy moshpits with people we know, getting paid with a few bottles of beer or sometimes none at all, and we actually find it more satisfying than playing to 40,000 orcs moshing blindly to our music.



I understand your genuine concern much like BassCog and skunkyfunk. Yes, I am too focused on making it big, but that's me. Maybe there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow but i'd atleast like to have the chance to see for myself. Don't worry about heartbreaks, much like what i said to skunkyfunk, i have every confidence in my getting-back-up-on-my-feet abilities.

Also don't worry, I am having the time of my life right now and indeed, success will be a bonus.

You've had quite a ride and with that I have gained a new found respect for you. Everyone has their own stories...hopefully soon, i'll be able to post one of mine.  :-)

Offline kornbip99

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2009, 09:53:38 AM »
Since a few people here have shared their experiences about music, I'll go with mine.

Been playing since 1987 or so in various barkada bands. Ended up playing with people who would later on be famous in their own right.

Come the new millennium, got a phone call from an old bandmate (and a very good friend). I join up with the band, going straight from new wave and into metal. We start by practicing for almost a year before playing. We played gigs where we could.

Since we couldn't find gigs, some of the band members founded a production, tried to hook up with other metal bands, so that a round-robin among the productions by the bands could be started. We were taken advantage of, and in the end the guys closed the production, since it was not profitable, both money-wise or mentally. But it was worth its weight in gold in experience, so to speak. We learned then that if we're going to do this band thing, we would do it on our own terms.

We kept on gigging, eventually landing a major label contract of sorts. Since I was a legal management major for part of my school life, I took a look and was horrified by the clauses. We laid down our terms, and said we wouldn't sign unless the changes were implemented. Middleman says sure, but when the contract comes back...they just changed where the nasty clauses were placed in the contract. We only signed after a clean contract according to our terms was given. Even then, we had to accede that if we were to ever come out with the songs we gave to them, we would have to rerecord it - they would own the recording of the songs, essentially. Given how our sound was evolving, it was no problem...after we dropped the two songs from our playlist, we haven't played them live since.

Eventually, one of us decides: form a studio, and later on, a record label.

He started talking to other bands, and eventually it happens: a record label. Selective or little radio or TV/Cable exposure, but somehow we sell albums. We eventually tour. We've had two tours so far, and this year, we've just gone to our first out-of-town gig that required an airplane. We're surprised that people over in Bacolod know our stuff.

Through all this, I have kept the faith. I have avoided getting jobs that would kill my nights and weekends - I even resigned from a job that was fairly lucrative, in part because it was taking too much time away from my band and the music.

I have always believed.

9 years going. 22 if you count since I held a bass guitar.

But my belief is to simply go out there with my bass, with my band, and to just play. screw getting rich and famous - that's just extra sauce on top, after all we've been through.

edit: not exactly screw getting rich and famous, but to be honest, I think it's still luck/x factor. I would appreciate the money (finally, bayad ang lahat ng gamit ko without having to use my money from somewhere else), and i won't mind the fame (who hates being famous, really?). It's just that right now, I guess, my mindset is: live, let live, enjoy life, it's the only one we got. If you hassle yourself too much, then just let go, and do what you think you should.

what matters is that there are nights when i plug in my bass, and when I hear that right "thump" in my chest, I can close my eyes, fret the note and I can hear a part of my life in the songs.

"Aum" by way of metal music.



nice :-)

Offline IncX

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2009, 10:34:57 AM »

*lol*

some guy actually wants to make money in music *snicker*

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2009, 10:10:59 AM »
News alert for those who are in dire need of being signed!

All the local record labels have postponed their proposed contract signings with new artists.  They say it was Ondoy's fault.  :?  Nalubog kaya sa baha iba nilang CDs? 

We have to wait til next year, and good luck sa mga nakapila.  And when you get signed, hope you can earn from your 4% share from record sales if you reach quota. 

Offline Letour

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2009, 11:35:53 AM »
I don't want to talk my experience in counseling clients about signing record deals.  :-o

On another thread my being a lawyer isn't good enough to understand a record contract.  :-D

Imagine if I had the record companies as my clients.....  :lol:

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Offline el dorko

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Re: Pessimism: the good and the bad
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2009, 12:16:11 PM »
News alert for those who are in dire need of being signed!

All the local record labels have postponed their proposed contract signings with new artists.  They say it was Ondoy's fault.  :?  Nalubog kaya sa baha iba nilang CDs? 

We have to wait til next year, and good luck sa mga nakapila.  And when you get signed, hope you can earn from your 4% share from record sales if you reach quota. 

Yung pagbayad mo pa nga lang sa advance royalties ng label ang hirap na e, earnings pa kaya... we still haven't received any mechanical royalties from our first album.

OT: kornbip and skunky, di niyo lang ata alam, but I think the two of you know each other  :-D
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