Author Topic: help!!! whats better?!? (Read 6620 times)

balta · « **on:** May 08, 2006, 12:26:18 AM »

i have pretty decent set-up now (12 channel mixer, condenser mics, ... and a laptop with only usb1). So ever since i just hook the out to the stock mic input of the laptop. So to make the soundquality of recording i need a soundcard and in my case (since i use a laptop) I need an external soundcard device

so which is better for me:

a) buy a second hand tascam us -224 to be plugged in my usb 1
(quesion would it be really slow and have latency problems?)

b) buy a firewire port to be insert in the laptops card input then buy a
firewire powered external soundcard
(question which one do you guys suggest??)

Please help!! I need your knowledge and opinions hehe

thanks!

KitC · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2006, 01:13:25 AM »

Go firewire. Choose an adapter that supports 6-pin so it can power your planned FW soundcard. The 4-pin jobs do not send power out. Also choose an adapter that uses the TI (Texas Instruments) chipset. These reportedly have very few compatibility problems with FW audio.

The Tascam is already getting long in the tooth. USB also has a higher cpu utilization rate than FW. You can also get a PCMCIA-to-PCI adapter so that you can use the FW port or any other PC card in your desktop.

The other alternative is to get a PCMCIA soundcard like the Emu, Echo, or Digigram VX Pocket, and get the PCI adapter for the ultimate in transportability between laptop and desktop.

balta · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2006, 05:55:26 PM »

ummm,.....

Hope i understood it right`

the PCMCIA means the card thingy that u put in the card slot of the laptop right??

so u suggest that I should just go with the firewire. How much would it cost me for the firewire card for my laptop and the firewire soundcard?? And what firewire soundcard do you suggest?

because someone is selling me a tascam us 224 for 12k
would the firewire thing be cheaper ?? or if not would it still be more worth it??

"The Tascam is already getting long in the tooth" <--what does this exactly mean by the way?? hehe

"USB also has a higher cpu utilization rate than FW" <-- what does this mean also?? hehe (does this mean that usb sucks?)

do i really need the PCMCIA-to-PCI since i'll just be using it for laptop purposes??

sorry for all the questions
so much thanks so much thanks so much thanks
for the help man.

KitC · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2006, 07:08:08 PM »

Quote from: balta

ummm,.....

Hope i understood it right`

the PCMCIA means the card thingy that u put in the card slot of the laptop right??

They're also known as PC cards and yes, those are the cards you insert into the card slot - the laptop's version of pci cards with the added feature of being hot pluggable. Try THAT with a pci card (of course you won't do that, you can destroy your mobo that way).

Quote from: balta

so u suggest that I should just go with the firewire. How much would it cost me for the firewire card for my laptop and the firewire soundcard?? And what firewire soundcard do you suggest?

Firewire PCMCIA usually begins at $50 going up to $75. You want a card that supports 6 pin power pass thru like this because portable FW devices sometimes get their power from the FW bus/cable. Other PC card FW adapters do not have power pass thru. Another consideration is the adapter's chipset. It's recommended to use TI chipsets because these are known to work well with FW audio.

Quote from: balta

because someone is selling me a tascam us 224 for 12k
would the firewire thing be cheaper ?? or if not would it still be more worth it??

"The Tascam is already getting long in the tooth" <--what does this exactly mean by the way?? hehe

The US224 was developed in 2001/2002 and is a usb 1.1 device. Usb 1 has a max data bandwidth of 12 megabits per second, not bytes. If you're only doing stereo in/out with it, that's fine but you're asking the device to be a DAW controller and midi interface as well. This increases the chances of dropouts. 'Getting long in the tooth' basically means it is nearing obsolescence. Here is an SoS article on the US224.

Quote from: balta

"USB also has a higher cpu utilization rate than FW" <-- what does this mean also?? hehe (does this mean that usb sucks?)

USB data is processed more by the cpu as compared to FW which offloads data processing from the cpu. That means if your laptop processor isn't fast enough, you will have data dropouts. USB 2.0 was developed to better compete with the FW spec, but the US224 is a usb 1.1 device.

Quote from: balta

do i really need the PCMCIA-to-PCI since i'll just be using it for laptop purposes??

This is recommended if you get a PCMCIA soundcard instead of a FW adapter. That way, you can use the same soundcard in your laptop and desktop. This can be important during editing because it's a lot easier to edit on a desktop as well as the fact for the same amount of money spent on a laptop, a desktop will be way more powerful. Btw, don't go even considering laptop recording if it is based on 'budget' processors like Celeron and Duron. The only exceptions are Celerons based on the Sonoma chipset.

Of course you can do the same thing with FW provided your desktop has FW ports.

jplacson · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2006, 07:54:05 PM »

Just a warning... PCMCIA Firewire cards (even 6 pin ones) are NOT required to be powered. Only Macs have powered Firewire ports as standard. If you get one of those FW PC cards for your Wintel machine, you may still need to plug into the wall.

It will work... just be prepared to use a wall wart to power your interface.

balta · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2006, 08:31:04 PM »

damn, this is so educational. You are a knowledge god KitC.

so in the end u suggest to just get a desktop then?

But as of now i only have my laptop for it. And im not really into ultra pro level recording. I just need something that is pretty good, efficient and beyond par sound quality. Plus i need something that makes the output of my sound better since I'll be bringing my laptop during gigs to use with my midi controller and ableton live.

I am convinced, and i will just get me a FW PCMCIA

So now what do you suggest I should get as a midi/FW interface??

jplacson <-- so even if i get a FW powering device a FW card wouldn't
power it?? Even lets say to charge an ipod??

balta · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2006, 08:43:59 PM »

wait i think i now understood what you were suggesting earlier,

DO u suggest i go get the emu 1616M ?? since it has a firewire PCMCIA slot with it and a midi/recording interface

what do u guys think??

KitC · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2006, 08:51:53 PM »

Quote from: jplacson

Just a warning... PCMCIA Firewire cards (even 6 pin ones) are NOT required to be powered. Only Macs have powered Firewire ports as standard. If you get one of those FW PC cards for your Wintel machine, you may still need to plug into the wall.

It will work... just be prepared to use a wall wart to power your interface.

Yes, this is correct. That's why the recommendation was for a FW adapter that supports power pass thru. Be aware though that this will have an effect on battery charge life as the interface will be drawing power from the laptop. Ideally, you would want to power the FW breakout box separately.

Presonus has a very good FW interface in the Inspire 1394. For a hundred bucks more, you get the Firebox which gives you 6 in/8 out. Both very good deals, IMO.

balta · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2006, 10:02:05 PM »

I got to check out the firebox and the inspire but it doesn't include a firewire PCMCIA

so im thinking its either:

a) EMU 1616M (this includes a firewire PCMCIA) --> 500$

or

b) FIREBOX + a Vigor firewire 1394a PCMCIA --> 350$

i thinkk....

is the quality of the emu 1616M better than the firebox? If so is it enough to shell out 150$ more??

KitC · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2006, 12:38:22 AM »

I have an Emu 1820m and it's quality is astounding. It had some growing pains with the early drivers but things are alright now. It's not exactly a champion in the latency department, that belongs to RME. I'll be honest with you, though; more than a few have had problems understanding the Patchmix mixer software because it is radically different from what most are used to. You have to let go of certain paradigms when using the Emu. The Emu set of cards were meant for recording and too many approach it thinking it is similar to a 'blaster. It is NOT a gaming card and does not accept EAX environments. It is also not forgiving of a few computer configurations and certain laptops can have performance issues. Go to the link in my sig and do a search for compatible laptops. If you need more info on the Emu, don't be afraid to ask.

The Firewire option, IMO, is a safer bet for you. Try to research the FW adapter; better yet, surf the Presonus site for recommended FW adapters. The one problem I have with the Vigor is that it doesn't identify the chipset used. Ideally, you would want a FW adapter that does power pass thru but it is not important if the Firebox has a power adapter anyway.

KitC · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2006, 12:49:46 AM »

Quote from: balta

DO u suggest i go get the emu 1616M ?? since it has a firewire PCMCIA slot with it and a midi/recording interface

Just to clarify, the 1616m is not a Firewire card. It is a PCMCIA-based soundcard which is basically a pci soundcard reduced to the size of a PCMCIA card. It works at practically the same throughput as the pci bus, which is much faster than firewire and usb 2.0

Also, the 1616m does not do firewire. Which is why I suggested getting a PCMCIA-to-PCI adapter so that you can use the same soundcard between laptop and desktop.

With firewire soundcards, the external box is the soundcard. In the case of the Firebox, all logic circuits and A/D/A converters are located within the Firebox. The 1616, on the other hand, has it's logic circuits on the PCMCIA card while the A/D/A converters and probably DSP chip are located in the breakout box. The 'm' version of the 1616 uses the same converters usually found in Protools systems, but that's just marketing-speak.

balta · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:00:59 AM »

can't believe I am actually understanding all this. hahha

ok so a firebox plus a firewire card is better than an emu 1616M
this is actually a good thing since its 10,00 pesos cheaper

but the firebox has only 2 inputs so... i guess recording drums is out of the question with this one.

is there no reported failure for the firebox?? Does i get great reviews in comparison to the 1616M??

Is the firebox the best firewire interface that is less than 500 dollars??

thanks again sir KITC

balta · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:17:39 AM »

I was doing some research on the net and found this thing called a
MOTU ultralight

is it good?? u think this is better than those above since it has 10 inputs??

KitC · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2006, 03:04:14 AM »

Quote from: balta

but the firebox has only 2 inputs so... i guess recording drums is out of the question with this one.

is there no reported failure for the firebox?? Does i get great reviews in comparison to the 1616M??

Is the firebox the best firewire interface that is less than 500 dollars??

The Firebox actually has 4 analog inputs; 2 combo Neutriks on the front (XLR/1/4" line in) and 2 balanced 1/4" line ins at the back. It is among the best for the price. If you need more inputs, then the Firepod (10 in/out) is what you're looking for but it already costs $599!

The MOTU Ultralite has 8 analog ins and 8 analog outs at 24 bit/96 khz. It goes for $549.99 you can find more info on the Ultralite here.

balta · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2006, 03:38:59 AM »

ok i consulted a friend of mine and he said to invest on a desktop instead since my laptop is decent but not strong enough.

so now if i decide to just go with desktop pc what soundcard do u suggest i should i get??

bugoy · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2006, 03:51:11 AM »

kitc ayos ba yung Delta 1010 ng M-Audio ?

http://www.audiomidi.com/Delta-1010-P527.aspx#

KitC · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2006, 04:45:27 AM »

Quote from: bugoy

kitc ayos ba yung Delta 1010 ng M-Audio ?

http://www.audiomidi.com/Delta-1010-P527.aspx#

@bugoy - highly recommended. very stable drivers and protools ready pa. what I like about M-Audio's drivers are that you can have multiple 1010's and they only use 1 irq. There was once a discussion about problems between M-audio and SATA but abyss hasn't had any probs with his system.

@balta - get a mobo with firewire onboard. I highly recommend the firebox/firepod or the ultralite. Focusrite is releasing a 26-input

Saffire pero wala pang released MSRP.

abyssinianson · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2006, 08:28:02 AM »

the 1010 is very stable and M-audio is always very good with their driver updates. my latency right now is at 3.24ms running cubase SX 3 and Nuendo 2.

balta · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2006, 09:14:10 PM »

new discover with matching question!

: similar to the price range of the recording interfaces above are the fire wire mixers like
Phonic Helix Board 18 FireWire 18-Channel Mixer
Alesis MultiMix 8FIREWIRE 8-Channel Mixer with Firewire

does these mixer also act as a soundcard?? since it hooks up to the laptop or pc and it has more inputs and (correct me if i am wrong) also gives control which acts like a controller to the faders in the digital mixer of a recording program, is it a better option to a recording interface that has fewer inputs?

show me to the light guys haha

KitC · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2006, 10:21:04 PM »

Quote from: balta

does these mixer also act as a soundcard?? since it hooks up to the laptop or pc and it has more inputs

These are basically mixers with internal firewire interfaces to your pc. Similar in function to usb mixers but with more channel capability. The Phonic Helix shares a troublesome trait with the Mackie Onyx FW mixers, i.e., The tap going to the FW interface is located after the trim pot but before the eq. Onyx owners complained that they wanted Mackie's 'British eq' to be part of the recording chain but the Onyx could not allow you to change the tap point. The Phonic shares this trait.

The Alesis, on the other hand, has it's tap point after the eq but before the aux sends. This may or may not break the deal since Alesis isn't particularly known for it's eq. Alesis also has a max sample rate of 48 kHz compared to Phonic's 96 kHz.

Quote from: balta

and (correct me if i am wrong) also gives control which acts like a controller to the faders in the digital mixer of a recording program,

No controller function with these mixers, sorry. If you want sliding fader automation, the Behringer BCF-2000 is the cheapest option, though it is only a DAW controller, not an audio interface.

Quote from: balta

is it a better option to a recording interface that has fewer inputs?

Chances are, the converters on these mixers pale in comparison to a dedicated FW soundcard.

jplacson · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2006, 11:42:43 PM »

Well, M-Audio has their ProjectMix... something I'd like to have for a portable rig!

balta · « **Reply #21 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:13:35 AM »

ok.. discovery failed... huhu

ow yea is the difference of latency with a firewire based interface to a card one have a big significant difference?

As for now i think will go with the firebox since
I really don't need that many inputs for drums
since i am just using it primarily for solo
electronic work.

Someone stop me now if i should decide otherwise hehe

Ow yea! how do i pay something i ordered from a site like musiciansfriend?
My relatives from the states are going here in 2 weeks if i orderd it and delivered it to their address would it get ther in time??

KitC · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:21:14 AM »

Quote from: jplacson

Well, M-Audio has their ProjectMix... something I'd like to have for a portable rig!

Has anyone done a shootout with these FW interfaces/controllers yet (M-Audio Project Mix/Tascam 1884/Digi 002)? I've read individual reviews but no A/B comparison between converters.

jplacson · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:26:16 AM »

balta, check on Amazon.com... Musician's Friend won't accept Phil issued credit cards but Amazon does. Amazon's music partner is Musician's Friend, so most of the stuff on MF is in Amazon.

KitC, not that I know of. The Digi002 is more expensive though and only has 4 pres. That may mean it's better... but then again, unless someone does an A/B... I can only guess.

Both the Project Mix and Digi002 run Protools (the project mix can use any SW as well if you run on Windows)

The Digi002 can be used as a stand alone live mixer.

KitC · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2006, 12:37:14 AM »

Quote from: jplacson

KitC, not that I know of. The Digi002 is more expensive though and only has 4 pres. That may mean it's better... but then again, unless someone does an A/B... I can only guess.

Both the Project Mix and Digi002 run Protools (the project mix can use any SW as well if you run on Windows)

The Digi002 can be used as a stand alone live mixer.

Yeah, I'm quite aware of their individual capabilities and specs. I'm just surprised that no one's done a shootout yet although my gut feel is that we'll be seeing one soon because of Project Mix. Aside from the converters, MCU emulation would be tops among my requirements for compatibility with the DAW software I'm using.

News:

Author Topic: help!!! whats better?!? (Read 6620 times)