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Author Topic: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION  (Read 26648 times)

Offline qroon

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #100 on: December 31, 2013, 10:10:05 PM »
Great writing and insights paengkee! I'm now itching to try out Alex's gear. Also, I wish he is a bassist too :)


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Offline officebiker

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #101 on: December 31, 2013, 10:18:57 PM »
In this case Im not against or for anyone, I just want to hear the difference.
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Offline ybab_10tsepmet

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #102 on: December 31, 2013, 10:25:45 PM »
I wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes....
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Offline juwanfidle09

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #103 on: December 31, 2013, 10:30:22 PM »
ive tested alex's guitars and amps and compared them to an ibanez i had that had bare knuckle pickups installed. frequency wise, i thought my ibanez could cut it but the main difference is that psychological difference where a guitar actually inspires you to play better, and in result, sound better. yes, my bkp loaded ibanez sounded great but felt like a toy compared to a custom shop jackson, a suhr, the and the baker (i forgot to try the gil yaron. ugh).

as for recordings, i can conclude that it would be impossible to capture what i FELT on a recording. and i say that as someone who does recordings for a living. notes felt "stickier" on alex's guitars and almost felt like i was connected to the sound that was coming out of his amps. i literally felt like i was a way better player than i was.

we talked about how buying more expensive guitars is only a way of NARROWING the margin of error between getting a good sounding and FEELING guitar and a lemon/toy-like/plasticky guitar.

pull the "alex cant play his expensive guitars" card all you want. in the end theyre his guitars and they give him the satisfaction of actually playing them no matter what his skill level. for sure most of you can outplay him. and keep telling yourselves that you could for whatever ego-based reasons you have but ill tell you this, that speaks more about yourselves than anyone.

when i tried the baker and the suhr, i still sound like myself, but i felt like i was being my BEST self with those instruments. i felt like i was looking into a mirror that made me look good compared to a broken or dirty mirror. i was admiring the tone i could coax out of the instrument. i didnt consider the tone as part of the instrument itself because i felt like i still sounded like myself. i think im waxing poetic right now, but that only shows how indescribable it is to actually try and feel a great guitar. truly inspiring.

along the way alex asked me: which amp/guitar did you like best? you would expect me to say "ALL OF THEM" but i was surprised to found that i found my own favorites and not-so-favorites among his gear. i spent more time on the jackson chris broderick custom shop than the suhr and baker. i enjoyed my tone more on the diezel than the soldano (he told me mico/phoenix_rising preferred the soldano)

i dont think its alex's intent to invalidate all of our "tone experiences". his articulation in writing on these forums differs from how he is in real life and in our conversations, i did not feel judged at all. in the end i just gained more things to consider when choosing a guitar. and i think thats his point in making these posts. we all tend to rationalize and sometimes delude ourselves into thinking we sound good.

how many times have you been told to adjust your eq by a bandmate? we hear ourselves differently. we hear the tones of our idols filtered through recordings and listening devices. i mean, if you listen to music on ipod earphones, i dont think that would be an accurate picture of how things sound in real life. some people end up thinking that tones on ipod earphones are what things should sound like in reality and they end up tweaking their tone to be as thin and piercing as the things they use to listen to music. some people with cheap speakers with subs, tweak their tone to be overly boomy or bloated and conflict with the bass guitar. how we understand tone is based on what we consider good tone and what we use to hear good tone. alex has a good point in saying that these experts he consults with have had FIRST HAND experience with great sounding gear. there is no substitute. no soundclips, videos, youtube demos can replace that magical feeling of walking into a store, trying out as many guitars as you can and serendipitously "meeting" a great instrument.

I think these sums it all up. Sobrang nakakarelate ako dito :)

Offline rowley75

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #104 on: January 01, 2014, 01:19:47 AM »

Individual tone 'party' against your own gear is what I do.  As much as I love tone parties, you really don't learn much because it does not give you sufficient time to compare your gear.  Lets just say that you never know if your gear may match something which is in the lower end range of my gear.

Hmm.. Maybe i should get some gear worth comparing soon. I think my historic r0 isn't worth comparing with your yaron. Though i would love to try your gear first to persuade my self on purchasing(if my financial capacity permits it).
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Offline analog.matt

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #105 on: January 01, 2014, 07:04:05 AM »
ive tested alex's guitars and amps and compared them to an ibanez i had....

as for recordings, i can conclude that it would be impossible to capture what i FELT on a recording.

Hence the beauty of watching a live band.


we talked about how buying more expensive guitars is only a way of NARROWING the margin of error between getting a good sounding and FEELING guitar and a lemon/toy-like/plasticky guitar.


Yes. this is the game naman talaga. some just don't get it, and focus on "expensive vs not so expensive" and their ego. mahirap din naman tanggapin na yung pinaghirapan mo eh olats pala. but then, kaya nga nagsasalita si Alex - so people can pierce through the Fog of Marketing and optimize their budget. it's not about his guitars. it is about the "enlightenment."

The probability of getting a really good guitar is bigger with a custom build lang naman, and once you're able to get that exceptional guitar, talaga nga naman exception-al.

Personally, I'd rather save and invest and pay for a really good guitar than go through hundreds of guitars. sayang lang yung panahon/oras etc.. this is just my pov.

[ika nga ni Ed Roman, i can't remember exactly what he said but it was something like, I'd rather pay 5000 on something that costs 3500 to make, than pay 5000 that costs 500 to build (mass produced USA guitars). but of course meron pa din dyan parang one in a million type exception, like someone i know, squire na gitara pero daig ang US strat. swerte nung taong yun]


pull the "alex cant play his expensive guitars" card all you want. in the end theyre his guitars and they give him the satisfaction of actually playing them no matter what his skill level. for sure most of you can outplay him. and keep telling yourselves that you could for whatever ego-based reasons you have but ill tell you this, that speaks more about yourselves than anyone.


anyone has the right to play, regardless of skill level. it's no similar to clothes, cars etc. it was money earned properly. And FM55's businesses has served our country well too. well deserved lahat ng mga yan in my book.


i dont think its alex's intent to invalidate all of our "tone experiences". his articulation in writing on these forums differs from how he is in real life and in our conversations, i did not feel judged at all. in the end i just gained more things to consider when choosing a guitar. and i think thats his point in making these posts. we all tend to rationalize and sometimes delude ourselves into thinking we sound good.


Agree. Alex is just helping us in our OWN Journey. Parang martial arts din yan, in order to attain fulfillment and freedom you have to explore. you've gotta meet different people or masters who are ahead of you in the Path. you have to EXPERIENCE. you do not necessarily have to imitate them.

empty your cup, have it filled by their knowledge and experience, study what was given and then, you add it if its useful, reject if its useless. don't throw them away, just shelve them as it might come in handy in the future.

pano nga naman din makakaexperience kung hanggang internet at magazines lang ang pinaniniwalaan? Eh yung mga major brands din naman ang mga may ari niyan eh.

then you have people talking about vintage guitars eh hindi pa naman nakakahawak ng vintage. or good sounding guitars pero hindi pa nakakahawak ng magandang equipment.

parang a blind person talking about how the sun looks like.

***

meeting Alex is not just about comparing gears/guitar. marami pa. kaya sa akin lang, highly advisable to meet him in his free time.






« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 07:07:56 AM by analog.matt »

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #106 on: January 01, 2014, 11:44:02 AM »
The wheels on the bus go round and round...
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Offline arkeetar

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #107 on: January 01, 2014, 11:55:45 AM »
^ mismo, wala ng mapagusapang bago, paulit ulit na lang.
Pero naniniwala ako depende sa instrumento panu lalabas idea/creativity ng isang player. Haha
di ako gagamit ng low action metal pointy guitar para mag blues. Hindi ko feel haha

Offline Rmansh

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #108 on: January 01, 2014, 05:18:10 PM »
^ mismo, wala ng mapagusapang bago, paulit ulit na lang.
Pero naniniwala ako depende sa instrumento panu lalabas idea/creativity ng isang player. Haha
di ako gagamit ng low action metal pointy guitar para mag blues. Hindi ko feel haha

oi happy new year :lol:
looking for badass guitars and amps.....

Offline arkeetar

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #109 on: January 01, 2014, 05:39:42 PM »
oi happy new year :lol:

Happy New Year! hahahaha
dapat supportahan na lang natin Neko guitars hahaha

aanhin ko ang magandang at mamahaling gitara kung sa isip ko naman hindi ko magamit ng maayos dahil ayokong magasgasan hahahaha

Offline Bolt Thrower

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #110 on: January 01, 2014, 07:38:00 PM »
basta dibs sa soldano slo100.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #111 on: January 02, 2014, 06:48:07 AM »
The wheels on the bus go round and round...

Well, I think the educated and open minded get off the bus...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 04:40:32 PM by firemodel55 »

Offline ybab_10tsepmet

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #112 on: January 02, 2014, 08:14:20 AM »
sana makaexperience din ako ng ibang tonal perspective
sir fireman balitaan mo naman ako kung may free time ka
gusto ko marining kung anu man ang ishe share mo
happy new year

 :-P
erutufoneesseyedaed

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #113 on: January 02, 2014, 11:17:38 AM »
The nice thing though, more open-minded people have crossed over to the Alex camp.  Not necessarily in terms of gear choices, but in terms of raising their bar of preference.

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #114 on: January 02, 2014, 11:23:54 AM »
Naalala ko tuloy ang Facebook.  Ang recordings (Youtube included), parang Facebook profile pic yan.  Maganda sa Facebook, pero pag nakita mo sa personal yung tao, ang swangit pala.

Ditto on paengkee.  Recording equipment, no matter how expensive and glorious, can never replicate the real world experience. 


Offline eros00

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #115 on: January 02, 2014, 12:26:15 PM »
So, overall, it would still go to the overall feeling that you have with the gear that you are using then? Sorry. I'm just thinking things in relation to Einstein's theory of Relativity. Still, I would like to drool over and try FM55's gear though.  8-)
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Offline Boosted

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #116 on: January 02, 2014, 01:55:43 PM »
sama ako sa tone test! :D

Offline ejecruz

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #117 on: January 02, 2014, 02:06:34 PM »
Waaaaaah!!! lalo tuloy ako na eexcite marinig mga guitars ni alex...  :cry:
Joshua 1:8

Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.

Offline pixelwise

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #118 on: January 03, 2014, 01:43:54 AM »
woah may revival pala dito. Ang usaping almost as old as philmusic. Hallelu! :D

Di ko maalala kung naitanong na ba to, or actual na nagawa na -- @fm55 have you had your gear subjected to a blindfold test? I'm guessing that removes the psychological factor from the equation.

The nice thing though, more open-minded people have crossed over to the Alex camp.  Not necessarily in terms of gear choices, but in terms of raising their bar of preference.

My 2c -- in the end this is really about vanity, not tone. That goes to everyone in both "camps" (i.e, "my ibby is as toneful too" is as vain as "i settle for nothing less than a suhr", etc etc) .. I'm not saying this in a bad way, so guys don't bite. We all go for whatever makes us feel good and proud. Vanity. And that's good. On the other hand, tone is just delusion. Tone-problem and tone-solution are delusions. Those who look to tone messiahs for enlightenment, good for you! And those who rather keep happily to their own delusions, equally good for you!

Offline gandydancer123

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #119 on: January 03, 2014, 01:54:06 AM »
commercial muna..



$800 with lots of Q.C. issues...cracks on the cap, scrapes on the tubing, orange peel on the plastic parts..


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Offline firemodel55

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #120 on: January 03, 2014, 07:01:02 AM »
woah may revival pala dito. Ang usaping almost as old as philmusic. Hallelu! :D

Di ko maalala kung naitanong na ba to, or actual na nagawa na -- @fm55 have you had your gear subjected to a blindfold test? I'm guessing that removes the psychological factor from the equation.

My 2c -- in the end this is really about vanity, not tone. That goes to everyone in both "camps" (i.e, "my ibby is as toneful too" is as vain as "i settle for nothing less than a suhr", etc etc) .. I'm not saying this in a bad way, so guys don't bite. We all go for whatever makes us feel good and proud. Vanity. And that's good. On the other hand, tone is just delusion. Tone-problem and tone-solution are delusions. Those who look to tone messiahs for enlightenment, good for you! And those who rather keep happily to their own delusions, equally good for you!


What for?  I can do tone tests without a blindfold because I can turn off my BIAS when it comes to guitar gear.  Its better that you practice without a blindfold that way you are more conscious of your BIAS versus what you are hearing.  By the way, when Ted Nugent said that Eddie sounds like Eddie when he plugged into Van Halen's gear, I don't think he was blindfolded.

I do AGREE with you its about VANITY with those who cannot HEAR and admit that they buy equipment based on looks or style as their primary goal.  I disAGREE with you about my intentions as Vanity.  With a large chance of getting a dead sounding guitar in the realm of 90-95%,  I want to help people sort out the chaff and spend their money toward something lasting.  The 5% of guitars that really sound great are NOT delusions but astounding instruments that make music magical.  The point is a lot of guitar companies are selling crap because: 1) they know that they can fool you on looks or 2) they don't have the ability to consistently produce great sounding instruments.   

It does show, no offense made, that you have NOT encountered an exceptional sounding electric.  I do know where you are coming from... the problem of your whole statement is that you are more optical than aural (which is OK because I had the same thoughts years ago--- although brief).  The use of words -- Delusions, tone messiah, enlightenment, vanity, and blindfold -- mostly appeal to your sense of sight.  Here is a simple exercise, buy a new Lumanog and then set an appointment with farseer and compare your newly bought Lumanog to farseer's acoustic guitars which may number around thirty or more (I am just guessing) .  I bet you that your Lumanog will not sound as good as ANY of his guitars by a FAR margin.  That is not delusion, but that is fact.

Offline Rmansh

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #121 on: January 03, 2014, 09:45:44 AM »
Happy New Year! hahahaha
dapat supportahan na lang natin Neko guitars hahaha

aanhin ko ang magandang at mamahaling gitara kung sa isip ko naman hindi ko magamit ng maayos dahil ayokong magasgasan hahahaha

bili ka may libreng siopao. nawala na yun mga "fun" thread sa GC noh?  :idea:

looking for badass guitars and amps.....

Offline arkeetar

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #122 on: January 03, 2014, 10:16:54 AM »
bili ka may libreng siopao. nawala na yun mga "fun" thread sa GC noh?  :idea:

oo nga kaya basa basa na lang, haha gusto ko yung parang beef/pork jerky ng intsik hehe

ganda sana masalang gear ni fm55 sa iba't ibang player sa live situation. Mismo yan haha ng maramdaman talaga.
Yun oh! Haha

Offline pixelwise

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #123 on: January 03, 2014, 11:25:44 AM »
I wonder about a blindfold test because tone is supposed to be (your words) aural, not optical. Moot on my part really, as I don't believe it matters after all.

Personally, as long an an instrument isn't physically harmful to play i eventually manage to find joy in it. My vanity defines this as better artistry. Yours lies elsewhere. So why the few MIAs hanging on my wall among the asian "chaff" and not one lumanog? The answer i cannot state any better than paengkee already has. But he stated feel, class, taste ("raising the bar of preference" as skunky put it) -- all psychology and not the absolutism of "good tone" as you seem to try to impress on people. Would i buy a suhr IF i can? (Big IF there). Hell yeah. Do i believe it may make me a better, happier player? Why not? But all these reasons don't make good tone an absolute fact. If it was, we won't be having this discussion in the first place. People will be naturally drawn to that one good tone. But as it is, good tone is but a concept, an ideal. Thus a good vehicle for launching one's vanity. No offense there, since the filipino culture needs a good dose of "proper" (??? lol i hope i'm making sense) vanity to counter mediocrity.

In the end, what is tone but the brain's interpretation of sound waves? Your 5% figure most likely represents the population of musical brains agreeing to what "good tone" should be rather than the number of toneful guitars in existence. Meanwhile, 100% of music lovers enjoy their choice of music oblivious of the idealism of good guitar tone.

Offline Poundcake

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Re: TONEFUL GUITAR SELECTION
« Reply #124 on: January 03, 2014, 06:51:53 PM »
I wonder about a blindfold test because tone is supposed to be (your words) aural, not optical. Moot on my part really, as I don't believe it matters after all.

Personally, as long an an instrument isn't physically harmful to play i eventually manage to find joy in it. My vanity defines this as better artistry. Yours lies elsewhere. So why the few MIAs hanging on my wall among the asian "chaff" and not one lumanog? The answer i cannot state any better than paengkee already has. But he stated feel, class, taste ("raising the bar of preference" as skunky put it) -- all psychology and not the absolutism of "good tone" as you seem to try to impress on people. Would i buy a suhr IF i can? (Big IF there). Hell yeah. Do i believe it may make me a better, happier player? Why not? But all these reasons don't make good tone an absolute fact. If it was, we won't be having this discussion in the first place. People will be naturally drawn to that one good tone. But as it is, good tone is but a concept, an ideal. Thus a good vehicle for launching one's vanity. No offense there, since the filipino culture needs a good dose of "proper" (??? lol i hope i'm making sense) vanity to counter mediocrity.

In the end, what is tone but the brain's interpretation of sound waves? Your 5% figure most likely represents the population of musical brains agreeing to what "good tone" should be rather than the number of toneful guitars in existence. Meanwhile, 100% of music lovers enjoy their choice of music oblivious of the idealism of good guitar tone.

I believe it has already been established in this forum that "good tone" is subjective but there are certain characteristics that good sounding guitars should have. The importance of those characteristics may vary depending on the musician's music genre, the amp used, the recording gear used, the sound tech or sound engineer's mixing style, etc. There are so many factors to consider. But just to paraphrase what paengkee said, the thrill of playing an amazing guitar live and hearing the good stuff coming out of the speakers will never get old.
"The LORD will save me, and we will play my music on stringed instruments all the days of our lives, at the house of the LORD." Isaiah 38:20