Tone is in the fingers...

[deltaslim]

... if you wanna play BLUES.  IMO, of course, but no need to be apologetic this time.

I've seen guys "play blues" but not have blues tone.  Not to say that they're bad gtr players, but they don't have that classic blues tone that I expect to hear when they play the classic blues tunes.  I think major part nung blues tone is how your pick or bare fingers attack and mangle the strings. Just because you play a Lucille ES-345 through a tweed Bassman doesn't mean you'll sound like BB King. neither would a Custom Tele through a Fender Quad Reverb turn you into the Iceman (Albert Collins).

Agree o disagree?

[psychic_sushi]

I AGREE!!!

[glassjaw_jc]

agree.... that's why you're different from the other local blues players i've seen so far. i always hear the "oldness" of your tone. pati yung vintage tone kinukuha mo. it's like i'm listening to an old record

[haringulan]

At this point in time, I'd like to watch the rice simmer until the lid drops off from the broth... before I stick my wooden (swamp ash?) spoon in! hehehehe

damn dude, if your post were a poem, it'd be a haiku.
is that the same as the sound of one hand clapping?
hehehe.

Agree o disagree?

if you meant "skill in commanding the tone" is in your fingers, then yes.

[Kulas]

i agree to some extent, hehe. kasi when i let other (better) guitarists try my stuff, i always find myself saying "kaya pala ng gitara ko tumunog ng ganun..." since they're technically more adept than me mas kaya nilang patunugin yung gitara.

pero tingnan nalang natin in a more, shall we say, non-musical way yung statement na "tone is in the fingers"...

what can our fingers do? right hand muna...

1. you can use a pick with it. and pick gauges, pick strokes, pick angles and pick types have effects on the tone and the character of the sound that's produced.

2. you can use the fleshy part of your fingers. strumming the strings using the flesh of your fingers produces a "puffy" round sound na medyo muffled. so again, it has an effect on the tone and character of the sound.

3. you can use your fingernails. fingernails are like picks din so basically same effect as the pick. (refer to #1, hehe)

4. you can "pluck" pop the strings or slap it parang bass. to produce a snappy, heavy, hollow sound. again, an effect on the character of the sound.

left hand naman, nothing much you can do with the left hand except bend or vibrato, which i think doesn't affect the tone in anyway, but it gives character to the sound.

ok, why do i agree to a certain extent lang? kasi try doing this using a real cheapo guitar, example kung may nilalako lang na electric guitars, yung tipong ganon ka cheap, hehe. no matter what you do, iba parin yung tone nun. or try mo naman sumaksak sa karaoke system lang, kahit gaano ka kagaling or gaano kaganda yung guitar mo, panget parin tunog nun.

so yun, in conclusion (ang haba na, hehe) it's both in the fingers and in the gear. ngayon, you don't need gear with exaggerated price tags to get a good tone, just decent gear will do. pero shempre, the more money you have, the better gear you can acquire. tapos pair it with a good set of fingers, then yun, great tone, great music! hehe.

eto ay mga ideas ko lang ah, feel free to speak your minds about this. nase-sense ko na na baka uminit 'tong thread na 'to eh, hehe. peace bros!

[Deacon Blues]

Definitely agree ...

I'm assuming that the premise of this thread is that THE "MAJOR" PART OF THE BLUES TONE IS IN THE FINGERS ..

Of course, gear still plays a part, but I'd factor it at around 40-50%

When you say blues and fingers, Jeff Beck automatically came to mind.

Just look at the video clips of his at youtube.com, for an amazing treatise on how the guy gets a wide array of tones just by changing the way he attacks the strings.

Sometimes, he just used his thumb; sometimes, a combination of thumb and two fingers ..

And watch how he ever so subtly just hovers near the whammy bar - for that signature El Becko flutter ...

Damn! ...

[deltaslim]

agree.... that's why you're different from the other local blues players i've seen so far. i always hear the "oldness" of your tone. pati yung vintage tone kinukuha mo. it's like i'm listening to an old record

JC - i wasn't looking for compliments but thanks anyway. very flattering to hear that from a fellow musician (an audiophile at that!).

i hope clear rin sa iba ang point ng post ko. i did say "major part"... in the past gear vs tone debates kasi, we seem embarassed to admit that the player really plays a big part on the tone. especially the right hand (which is really the focus of my mini-treatise). this is especially true for blues music but little appreciated by others.

[Kulas]

agree.... that's why you're different from the other local blues players i've seen so far. i always hear the "oldness" of your tone. pati yung vintage tone kinukuha mo. it's like i'm listening to an old record

JC - i wasn't looking for compliments but thanks anyway. very flattering to hear that from a fellow musician (an audiophile at that!).

i hope clear rin sa iba ang point ng post ko. i did say "major part"... in the past gear vs tone debates kasi, we seem embarassed to admit that the player really plays a big part on the tone. especially the right hand (which is really the focus of my mini-treatise). this is especially true for blues music but little appreciated by others.

oh yes, i agree with JC, iba ka "tumipa" eh, hehe. for example, yung tunog "bote" hindi ko magawa, hehe. tunog tetrapak lang kaya ko, hahaha.

[tolits]

For me tone comes from the soul, then transmitted to the fingers, especially sa blues, it has so much emotion involved that you can be able to translate it to the fingers and most especially to the vocals, thats why I came up with our band,s name, SOULBENDERS, coz I believe that each time you bend the strings, it should come from your soul in order to relay your emotions. Bigat no? Corny ko!

[shadowm00n]

its defenitely true.. but remember, all asset counts. its pretty awkward to play blues using an ibanez destroyer w mt2. isnt it?

[Letour]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....  

I have been playing off and on for the past 20 years, blues for the last 5. I have not listened to many of the greats but I have a few CDs (or better cassette tapes, yipes, I 'm old).

A couple of years ago, when I praciticing some finger stretching exercises, a couple of guitar players say I was playing blues. Mind you, this was on a nylon string classical.

I definitely agree with you that it is in the fingers. There is really a sense of feel (not timing) when it comes to string bends and hammer-ons.  

The thrill is definitely not gone.....

[Deacon Blues]

Much has been said about the right hand's role in tone-shaping, but we may have missed out on what still might be a contributing, or even a more important facet of blues playing ... vibrato ..

And what better way to learn it than to go west ...  

Leslie West, I mean ...  

Goldmine:  Various guitar experts have called your vibrato the best in the business. Did you come to this over time, or did it just hit you in the face one day?

Leslie West:  It came to me over time. A lot of work. Actually, I listened to Clapton's vibrato and Hendrix's vibrato and Mick Taylor. Those guys had it. Everybody else didn't have very good vibratos. It's like a voice, you've got to have full control over it at all times, like an opera singer. Most guitar players I know just have one speed. To me that's the first sign of an excellent musician: what his vibrato is like. Once you've got that down, to me, that's the beginnings of a really great player. Eric Clapton is one of the best. I learned from Clapton and Hendrix. Keith Richards doesn't have a vibrato, but he's got other things. He doesn't claim to be a lead guitar player, he's just a guitarist, but his rhythms are so exceptional. Pete Townshend doesn't really have a vibrato. When I say they don't have one, I mean it's really not their forte. Joe Walsh has a good one. Eddie Van Halen has a good one. Steve Vai doesn't really have a good one, but he's a great guitarist.


Conversations with Leslie West and Corky Laing of Mountain
By Richard Skelley (1995)

[skunkyfunk]

I heard Clapton use a buzzy-sounding Marshall stack (not a Plexi, kinda modern Marshall, possibly SS) and I thought it was crap.  So not all true.

[deltaslim]

I heard Clapton use a buzzy-sounding Marshall stack (not a Plexi, kinda modern Marshall, possibly SS) and I thought it was crap.  So not all true.

You're talking about post 70s Clapton?  If so, I think you just reinforced my point and those of others.    

[psychic_sushi]

At this point in time, I'd like to watch the rice simmer until the lid drops off from the broth... before I stick my wooden (swamp ash?) spoon in! hehehehe

damn dude, if your post were a poem, it'd be a haiku.
is that the same as the sound of one hand clapping?
hehehe.

Agree o disagree?

if you meant "skill in commanding the tone" is in your fingers, then yes.

hahahaha, i edited that out, but you caught it before i deleted it! i guess the fields whisper to you, too:  the wind blows, and grass bends with it

what you use to attack the strings make a helluva difference to tone. the material of your pick, which section of your finger is used to create the tone, heck, even where you fret or what you use to touch the strings on the neck influence all that. blues and jazz are higly dependant on those things. and no music is as beautifully sparse and poignant in raw tone as the blues!


i wept into the ocean... it did not overflow

[deltaslim]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....     .....

Hehe... hindi naman.  It's just that the number of great guitarists on this forum are legion.  But when there's talk of fingers vs gear, we seem to underestimate the ability of these great players to sound good on anything (granted, they can sound better w/ better gear).  Feeling ko, these players feel (or are made to feel) guilty or embarassed to admit this.  Worse, discussions dwell too much on gear-related minutiae.  This is a bad influence for newbie guitarists, who might focus on building up their gear instead of their chops.

[psychic_sushi]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....     .....

Hehe... hindi naman.  It's just that the number of great guitarists on this forum are legion.  But when there's talk of fingers vs gear, we seem to underestimate the ability of these great players to sound good on anything (granted, they can sound better w/ better gear).  Feeling ko, these players feel (or are made to feel) guilty or embarassed to admit this.  Worse, discussions dwell too much on gear-related minutiae.  This is a bad influence for newbie guitarists, who might focus on building up their gear instead of their chops.

Amen, Deltaslim. It would be the bad case of having the tail wag the dog if newbie guitarists horde items but are skill impoverished. I know of someone personally who has a bad case of just that (I will not name names). He's got an insatiable compulsion to just buy items and bring them to musicians so he can hear how they sound. i'm saddened by his "situation", at one point he had even amassed more than 10 freakin' guitars, all Jap Vintage! but the brotherly advise i give him sadly fell on deaf ears, even offered to teach him for free provided i had the time and gave him a quick lesson on the spot.

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

[haringulan]

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

damn it, now that's eloquence!
hey man, i'll take your offer on the free guitar lessons

i played the string... it did not sing.

[psychic_sushi]

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

damn it, now that's eloquence!
hey man, i'll take your offer on the free guitar lessons

i played the string... it did not sing.

thanx for the compliment bro. i like that one! i played the string... it did not sing there was a nice, funny haiku in an old issue of guitar player mag, about breaking a string mid-solo. hanapin ko nga one time...

jam nalang instead of lessons, theres more to learn when you jam! if only i had the free time, damn...

[deltaslim]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....     .....

Hehe... hindi naman.  It's just that the number of great guitarists on this forum are legion.  But when there's talk of fingers vs gear, we seem to underestimate the ability of these great players to sound good on anything (granted, they can sound better w/ better gear).  Feeling ko, these players feel (or are made to feel) guilty or embarassed to admit this.  Worse, discussions dwell too much on gear-related minutiae.  This is a bad influence for newbie guitarists, who might focus on building up their gear instead of their chops.

Amen, Deltaslim. It would be the bad case of having the tail wag the dog if newbie guitarists horde items but are skill impoverished. I know of someone personally who has a bad case of just that (I will not name names). He's got an insatiable compulsion to just buy items and bring them to musicians so he can hear how they sound. i'm saddened by his "situation", at one point he had even amassed more than 10 freakin' guitars, all Jap Vintage! but the brotherly advise i give him sadly fell on deaf ears, even offered to teach him for free provided i had the time and gave him a quick lesson on the spot.

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

I think I know whom you are referring to.  Yep, baka maging crutch pa ang GAS kung newbie lang ang gtrst... baka di siya magdevelop.

These days madalas ako bumili ng gear pero there's always a purpose, use, or something interesting in an item for me to buy it. Once it's served its purpose, I can let go off it, no problem.  Having said that, pinapaikot ko lang din yung gears ko, I sell stuff to buy new stuff. I don't consider that GAS.  GAS would keeping on buying stuff beyond your means and not using them ('hoarding', as you say).

It's fun to buy and try new stuff. But cooler still is knowing that the biggest part of your tone is literally right at your fingertips. Think of how powerful a message that would be to kids, if they believe that they can walk into a jam and not be afraid they didn't bring their $$$ amp, gtr, or pedals.

[nathanmanansala]

...I think major part nung blues tone is how your pick or bare fingers attack and mangle the strings. ...

pano kung naka slide/thumbpick/fingerpicks ka?

Agree o disagree?

agree and i find that playing blues makes you change the way you attack the strings. so kahit pareho lang yung gear na gamit mo nagbabago pa din yung tunog mo.

[psychic_sushi]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....     .....

Hehe... hindi naman.  It's just that the number of great guitarists on this forum are legion.  But when there's talk of fingers vs gear, we seem to underestimate the ability of these great players to sound good on anything (granted, they can sound better w/ better gear).  Feeling ko, these players feel (or are made to feel) guilty or embarassed to admit this.  Worse, discussions dwell too much on gear-related minutiae.  This is a bad influence for newbie guitarists, who might focus on building up their gear instead of their chops.

Amen, Deltaslim. It would be the bad case of having the tail wag the dog if newbie guitarists horde items but are skill impoverished. I know of someone personally who has a bad case of just that (I will not name names). He's got an insatiable compulsion to just buy items and bring them to musicians so he can hear how they sound. i'm saddened by his "situation", at one point he had even amassed more than 10 freakin' guitars, all Jap Vintage! but the brotherly advise i give him sadly fell on deaf ears, even offered to teach him for free provided i had the time and gave him a quick lesson on the spot.

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

It's fun to buy and try new stuff. But cooler still is knowing that the biggest part of your tone is literally right at your fingertips. Think of how powerful a message that would be to kids, if they believe that they can walk into a jam and not be afraid they didn't bring their $$$ amp, gtr, or pedals.

Now that would be super! Confidence in your abilities to pull it off regardless of abilty which brings to mind that big statement in the film House of Flying Daggers, that the greatest swordsman is he who is without his sword, because he is already one with it. (paraphrased)

[deltaslim]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....     .....

Hehe... hindi naman.  It's just that the number of great guitarists on this forum are legion.  But when there's talk of fingers vs gear, we seem to underestimate the ability of these great players to sound good on anything (granted, they can sound better w/ better gear).  Feeling ko, these players feel (or are made to feel) guilty or embarassed to admit this.  Worse, discussions dwell too much on gear-related minutiae.  This is a bad influence for newbie guitarists, who might focus on building up their gear instead of their chops.

Amen, Deltaslim. It would be the bad case of having the tail wag the dog if newbie guitarists horde items but are skill impoverished. I know of someone personally who has a bad case of just that (I will not name names). He's got an insatiable compulsion to just buy items and bring them to musicians so he can hear how they sound. i'm saddened by his "situation", at one point he had even amassed more than 10 freakin' guitars, all Jap Vintage! but the brotherly advise i give him sadly fell on deaf ears, even offered to teach him for free provided i had the time and gave him a quick lesson on the spot.

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

It's fun to buy and try new stuff. But cooler still is knowing that the biggest part of your tone is literally right at your fingertips. Think of how powerful a message that would be to kids, if they believe that they can walk into a jam and not be afraid they didn't bring their $$$ amp, gtr, or pedals.

Now that would be super! Confidence in your abilities to pull it off regardless of abilty which brings to mind that big statement in the film House of Flying Daggers, that the greatest swordsman is he who is without his sword, because he is already one with it. (paraphrased)

... and you're the perfect example, dude.

[psychic_sushi]

Deltaslim,

Do I sense a hint of frustration? Did someone boast a skill he didn't have? Let me at him....     .....

Hehe... hindi naman.  It's just that the number of great guitarists on this forum are legion.  But when there's talk of fingers vs gear, we seem to underestimate the ability of these great players to sound good on anything (granted, they can sound better w/ better gear).  Feeling ko, these players feel (or are made to feel) guilty or embarassed to admit this.  Worse, discussions dwell too much on gear-related minutiae.  This is a bad influence for newbie guitarists, who might focus on building up their gear instead of their chops.

Amen, Deltaslim. It would be the bad case of having the tail wag the dog if newbie guitarists horde items but are skill impoverished. I know of someone personally who has a bad case of just that (I will not name names). He's got an insatiable compulsion to just buy items and bring them to musicians so he can hear how they sound. i'm saddened by his "situation", at one point he had even amassed more than 10 freakin' guitars, all Jap Vintage! but the brotherly advise i give him sadly fell on deaf ears, even offered to teach him for free provided i had the time and gave him a quick lesson on the spot.

guitars are hollow shells devoid of soul, it is up to the player to provide a soul to it, to sing through the wood, steel and plastic.

It's fun to buy and try new stuff. But cooler still is knowing that the biggest part of your tone is literally right at your fingertips. Think of how powerful a message that would be to kids, if they believe that they can walk into a jam and not be afraid they didn't bring their $$$ amp, gtr, or pedals.

Now that would be super! Confidence in your abilities to pull it off regardless of abilty which brings to mind that big statement in the film House of Flying Daggers, that the greatest swordsman is he who is without his sword, because he is already one with it. (paraphrased)

... and you're the perfect example, dude.

Ouch! Not me, but you and Deacon Blues very unique, personal styles

[Letour]

Talking about buying gear, here are my acquisition dates.

1980 Strat - 1985
1987 Squier - 1987
MIM Tele - 2000
Princeton 65 -2000
Digitech RP3 - 2001

Parang slow yata ako sa GAS. five items lang.