What do the professional people here think about Urban Dub?

[skunkyfunk]

i dont know of too many mastering facilities here in manila, abyss.  maybe a couple. and i hope that some professional's horror stories are no longer true --- i have been told that mastering in the past (by no less than one of the popular labels) was done in an old bodega.  in my opinion, i think facilities that offer mastering services here in the philippines are mostly recording studios that do mastering on the side.  nothing wrong with this.  but i am curious as to how far dedicated mastering can elevate the quality of local productions.

Zach Lucero says his facility is a dedicated mastering house.  Of course, he gets all the praises, or blame.  Last touch principle ika nga...    

[jplacson]

Soundweavers, which Slapshock album sound manipis to you?  Novena?  I think it's pretty good... sounds mostly DI'ed, but if you can't find a good miked sound, DI gives you much more to work with.

The mix is actually really good.  I don't know how much was spent to produce this record, but it's one of the better mixed metal albums out there.

Put simply, it doesn't sound home-made anymore.

**Although I don't know if it's just my copy, or the copy protection on the CD.... but I keep hearing this weird quantization noise... or is that really part of the album "effect"?

[abyssinianson]

i dont know of too many mastering facilities here in manila, abyss.  maybe a couple. and i hope that some professional's horror stories are no longer true --- i have been told that mastering in the past (by no less than one of the popular labels) was done in an old bodega.  in my opinion, i think facilities that offer mastering services here in the philippines are mostly recording studios that do mastering on the side.  nothing wrong with this.  but i am curious as to how far dedicated mastering can elevate the quality of local productions.

In a bodega? Wow. Now, thats a new one for me. I wonder if the master tapes smell like copra:) Anyway, I would say that a good mastering process would benefit local recordings greatly. HOWEVER, if the preliminary recording of the sound sources, whether it is the tracks for guitar, vocals, bass, or drums, is bad, then nothing much can be done to improve the record. A bad recording will always be a bad recording, you know? Now, as far as the DI sounds of Slapshock's Novena, I can see where the user-friendliness of the method comes in handy. However, the recording quality - I thought - ended up sounding really sterile and thin. This was apparent for all the elements of the mix across the board. I don't know what they used in the process of recording but some aspects of the audio would have benefitted from some type of processing for warmth to add dimension. In fact, a looming impression of the mixing was that it sounded too thin and lifeless for my taste.

To compare other mixing styles, I am currently trying to get my hands on  pinoy records so I can see how other people's production styles compare. Any suggestions on which one's are worth looking into?

[starfugger]

stuff from tracks recording studio sound pretty good, like cynthia alexander's albums (recent albums from tracks are Hale and Kamikaze).  then there's also the latest pupil album (done by another mixer) which i think is pretty good.  you'll see the difference between the overall sound ... tracks recording are warm and full, but pretty much done and mixed in one style (the Angee signature) while the pupil album sounds more modern and in your face.

[abyssinianson]

Thanks! I will hunt those records down and see what I can come up with.

[ralphot]

stuff from tracks recording studio sound pretty good, like cynthia alexander's albums (recent albums from tracks are Hale and Kamikaze).  then there's also the latest pupil album (done by another mixer) which i think is pretty good.  you'll see the difference between the overall sound ... tracks recording are warm and full, but pretty much done and mixed in one style (the Angee signature) while the pupil album sounds more modern and in your face.

yes, the angee signature. you can't dictate how the mix should sound like to him. otherwise, he'd tell you: "e di hindi ko na mix yan."

peace, angee.

p.s. on a more personal note, i don't quite like the drum sounds at tracks... specifically, the snare. parang "pannkhh" instead of just "pakkk".

[abyssinianson]

that type of snare sound is a fault of tuning rather than a production signature. either the lugs are too loose, causing a long decay of the hit, or, the snare springs are too loose. Loose strings can cause an annoying scrape-after effect on the skins of the snare of the tension screw isn't properly set or the springs themselves are not flush against the bottom of the snare.

drum sounds were actually discussed in a different thread. adjusting the drums and preparing drum tracks are a  time consuming task because a lot of variable contribute to a specific drum sound. In most cases I've been involved with, drum tracking took anywhere from a day to 3-4 days. In either scenario, there was always considerable prep time for the drums, mics, tuning, and gear adjustment to capture the sound just right.

[starfugger]

3 days     prep time SHOULD be very important especially for drums (of all instruments i think drums are most difficult to record and mix), kaso everyone's under time pressure dito sa pinas.  sad. the only ones allowed proper prep time here are surgeons! hehe. imagine if they had to rush things the way recordists do... SEPSIS.  

[dantuts]

has anyone heard of FREQUENCY STUDIO.. i think they did the mastering of Hale's album... ??

[abyssinianson]

lol..sepsis is right:) 3 days is overkill by any standard, it just so happened that people took days off to liesurely do recording stuff that time around. if worse comes to worse, the prep time for drums falls mainly of the drummer and how much he knows the sound of HIS kit. sharing how well a drummer knows his sound with the recording engineer cuts setup time considerbly because both parties establish a stanrting point from which to start recording drum sounds. knowing the nuances of a drum kit is a HUGE help for recording engineers because, like guitars, equipment need to be used in order to have a good idea of their capability.

[ralphot]

that type of snare sound is a fault of tuning rather than a production signature. either the lugs are too loose, causing a long decay of the hit, or, the snare springs are too loose. Loose strings can cause an annoying scrape-after effect on the skins of the snare of the tension screw isn't properly set or the springs themselves are not flush against the bottom of the snare.

i'm not sure, but i think that's the way angee likes to mix the snares. kasi we once recorded around 4 songs at tracks, and we liked how the rough mixes sounded (engineer namin yung kabanda dati ni sir markflo). di pa talaga halata yung pagka-ngongo ng snares.

but when angee produced the final mixes, ang dami nang nagbago sa overall sound ng songs. a far cry from the rough mixes that we adored. personal preference kasi namin yung medyo me pagka-lofi sound. and when we tried to impose the sound we wanted, angee wouldn't budge. it's either his mix or his mix.

then again, we're not discounting what our idiot of a drummer did to the otherwise perfect drum tuning before he went in and made his own "american standard" tuning. hahaha.

[marvinq]

yes, the angee signature. you can't dictate how the mix should sound like to him. otherwise, he'd tell you: "e di hindi ko na mix yan."

peace, angee.

p.s. on a more personal note, i don't quite like the drum sounds at tracks... specifically, the snare. parang "pannkhh" instead of just "pakkk".

a bit OT - i've been working with angee for the last 15 years of my career. i beg to disagree. he's pretty open-minded, and is very professional. the right time to 'dictate' the sound of the mix is before it happens, not after. during? well, maybe. i still have yet to hear a bad mix from that guy. there have been some projects that needed some tweaking, and some that needed more. there have been several times when i was already happy with his mix, and he wasn't, and he'd offer to remix it for no additional charge.

i haven't heard any of the albums being discussed, so i'm not discounting the fact that those might be exceptions. i've heard a little from cynthia alexander's stuff, and i'm quite pleased with it.

angee is more versatile than this thread seems to be implying. if those records sound the same, maybe, just maybe, it was what was asked of him. or... maybe the producer shouldn't have approved the mix just yet, if it wasn't the sound he was hearing.

... or maybe i'm biased, coz he's a good friend.

maybe not.

[prodigi]

angee is more versatile than this thread seems to be implying. if those records sound the same, maybe, just maybe, it was what was asked of him. or... maybe the producer shouldn't have approved the mix just yet, if it wasn't the sound he was hearing.

agree ako dyan!  

[starfugger]

hey don't get me wrong.  angee remains to be one fo my idols. i have always admired his sound since time immemorial

[marvinq]

IMHO, the thing that destroys artistic integrity is trying to please everybody. when angee disagrees with a client, i know him enough to be able to say he knows what he's talking about. it's not really as petty as 'it's his mix or his mix'. as artists, we all have our own thresholds as to what we're willing to do. there are things that i'd rather die than do with my music, but that's just me. i guess the same thing applies to angee and most, if not everybody. i don't wish to start debates regarding, "well, what about getting the job done?" or "the customer (aka client) is always right..." I wish it were that simple. Artists (being the humans that they are) are complicated. That's why the processes that take place between artists are complicated as well.

To clients, it's their prerogative to have their stuff remixed either by angee or somebody else, well, as long as they follow the rules. In tracks, they let you bring out the stuff that you recorded as long as you've settled your bill.

Just sharing.

I'd better cut this short before this turns into a psychology lecture.

Peace, everybody.

[whrellieck]

stonefree ?  

Slapshock was annoying because it was like a bad immitation of Limp Bizkit

LOLOLOL !!!   nice..

tama - tama LOL!!!

[tam_guitar]

i was browsing this forum, then i saw this thread...

reading everyone's post and opinions about recording and stuff,
raised me a question...

Are you Guys Recording Engineers???
I mean, the real thing... with license?

cause it looks like you guys know it all...

dnt get me wrong i just wanna know.

Gudnyt Poh

 

[tam_guitar]

i was browsing this forum, then i saw this thread...

reading everyone's post and opinions about recording and stuff,
raised me a question...

Are you Guys Recording Engineers???
I mean, the real thing... with license?

cause it looks like you guys know it all...

dnt get me wrong i just wanna know.

Gudnyt Poh

 

[skunkyfunk]

i was browsing this forum, then i saw this thread...

reading everyone's post and opinions about recording and stuff,
raised me a question...

Are you Guys Recording Engineers???
I mean, the real thing... with license?

cause it looks like you guys know it all...

dnt get me wrong i just wanna know.

Gudnyt Poh

You must be one Urban Dub fan.  Lemme tell ya, I am one too!

But here's my take.  THEY CHOSE THE WRONG PLACE TO RECORD THEIR MATERIAL.  It just holds me back from listening to their CDs.

As for "Engineers" needing the license, (as in Board passer?), hehe, that one made me laugh hard.

Anyway, maybe those PhD grads shouldn't be called doctors too.  

[abyssinianson]

i was browsing this forum, then i saw this thread...

reading everyone's post and opinions about recording and stuff,
raised me a question...

Are you Guys Recording Engineers???
I mean, the real thing... with license?

cause it looks like you guys know it all...

dnt get me wrong i just wanna know.

Gudnyt Poh

 

to answer your questions: we all do recording as engineers in one form or another whether it is professionally through our own small commercial businesses (skunkyfunk and starfugger and sound weaver), or through work as a hired gun (Kitc and me, abyssinianson). are we licensed? just to get things straight, recording engineers don't have boards like traditional engineers in EE, ME, or whatever else. recording engineers, and other music oriented technicians get certification either through short programs at universities and media associations or through universities. have I personally learned from such sources? yes, specifically berklee and fullsail. is it my fulltime job? no. my real-life vocation has nothing to do with the arts or music. I am in music purely for enjoyment and I would have it no other way because to actually work in the field, i believe, would take the taste and passion out of it for me. as such, i maintain a nice distance that enables me to work with music on MY terms.

also, just so we understand each other here, no one is a know it all. the very purpose of this forum is to critique, learn, and share information. the thread was made to discuss our ideas about the recording process of Urban Dub's record, Embrace. do i personally like it? sure, the songwriting is great. was it recorded the way it should have? i don't think so...but that is MY opinion. personally, I think the band could have done much better to go through the recording process to keep the mix from sounding like it was recorded in a rehearsal space. i think the lack of detail to capture the sound, and dynamic of the band shortchanges how good the record could have been recorded and mixed. i am confident that the band kicks @ss live, but the recording and the punch of the sound on the record doesn't grab me as much as I think it should.

the purpose of the thread is to discuss what we think about the record, and if we recorded it, what we would have done differently to show others how good the band can be made to sound. everyone here is geared towards getting better. dissecting this record as a case study is one way to apply other's opinions to our own work so we can ultimately become better at our craft.

ey, skunk, PhDs ARE doctors. otherwise, they wouldn't be called Doctor of Philosophy for nothing:) lol. former colleagues of mine who earned their PhD equivalents overseas like Oxford have the designation DSc. (Doctor of Science) which is a bit different but the same thing, essentially.

[tam_guitar]

i was browsing this forum, then i saw this thread...

reading everyone's post and opinions about recording and stuff,
raised me a question...

Are you Guys Recording Engineers???
I mean, the real thing... with license?

cause it looks like you guys know it all...

dnt get me wrong i just wanna know.

Gudnyt Poh

You must be one Urban Dub fan.  Lemme tell ya, I am one too!

But here's my take.  THEY CHOSE THE WRONG PLACE TO RECORD THEIR MATERIAL.  It just holds me back from listening to their CDs.

As for "Engineers" needing the license, (as in Board passer?), hehe, that one made me laugh hard.

Anyway, maybe those PhD grads shouldn't be called doctors too.  

nah im not a fan of urbandub...

actually i dnt even know the band, honestly  

im just really asking hehehe, tnx for the reply poh

well, abys pretty much cleared things up!

i agree with abys talking about keeping ur distance with music (as ur hobby or whatever)...totally agree!

abys, ive done some recording myself with my friends,
do u mind checking it out? ill appreciate ur critique very much!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=593798

dinner time!

sisig anyone???

peace

[abyssinianson]

sisig!

yeah, the people here and wonderful and I have learned so much from people like Kit, Starfugger, jp, and the whole slew of other regulars that frequent these boards. Lord, knows I am still trying to sift through the stuff I read on here in my own work.

[KitC]

Hehe, I'm a mechanical engineering graduate and I passed the board... does that count?  

[tam_guitar]

Hehe, I'm a mechanical engineering graduate and I passed the board... does that count?  

Hahaha...

Now i know where to get help with my Thermo assignments  

Coolness!