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Author Topic: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order  (Read 72006 times)

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2010, 05:31:27 AM »
Bookmarked.  Let's see how firemodel55 does it.  :-)  Do we get to hear it when it's built?  I pick top Q or maybe C, based on ee-nee-mee-nee-mhye-nee-mo.

Wow surprisingly, both billets you picked were Western Maple Top.  Western Maple Top is more abundant and is generally used by PRS for their tops.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2010, 05:44:02 AM »
alex, is the builder able to document that his wood is in fact "old growth" wood? What's his definition of old growth wood as this term has ben used loosely somettimes?

How is he able to guarantee that it will sound good like you mentioned? From what I recall in previous threads, they are not able to predict if a guitar will sound good until the finish product is done, regardless of parts and build technique used right?

I am planning to ask for papers but if you are experienced in wood you can see in the picture that some of the tops are at least 60 years old.  I cannot reveal yet which one because it might bias selection.

Again, I would like to point out that there is no guarantee that he will get it because it is the first time I am ordering from him.  Even if he gets it the first time around, I need to have a 2nd guitar made to prove a certain level of consistency.  That's why I have named this thread appropriately as biting the bullet because of the risk involved.  I just got tired of traveling abroad to test 100 Custom Shop guitars and rejecting them not only because it looks silly trying to explain to the salesman why it doesn't sound good -- by the way the salespeople in New York are generally more tolerating and they don't take it against you.  Salesmen in Asia -- Hong Kong, Singapore, Philippines -- generally do not understand.  But more importantly, after trying over a hundred Gibson Custom Shops and Fender Custom Shops in a day with PRS Ten Tops all sounding dead -- you start to look at these brands as CRAP.  Nakaka baba ng confidence and it just kills the excitement.

On the positive side, he seems to exhibit some indicators that he is capable of building MAGIC into guitars.  And this is why I decided to do a custom order to try to experience a custom build which will lead to MAGIC.

In my initial correspondence with him, he seems to have an intensity and drive and passion for his work that none of the local luthiers have.  He is clearly the expert in this specific field of guitar making.

Offline Jejan

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2010, 05:47:17 AM »
So the luthier's name is a secret. . . Oh well, goodluck to you.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2010, 05:54:00 AM »
So the luthier's name is a secret. . . Oh well, goodluck to you.

For now, I am keeping it a secret until the final product is finished because if I name the luthier there will be a bias for or against him.

Offline Filippo

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2010, 05:55:08 AM »
i think old growth wood isn't really as much about the "age" of the wood but where the wood was taken from... with the more important thing being that the wood came from the old primary growth forests... Hopefully yours is indeed OLD GROWTH wood and not just old wood ... old wood would be my grandfather, god rest his soul hehe  :lol: Hopefully your luthier can provide good documentation on it as well. He should be able to do so ... the likes of D Johnson from what I know are able to provide documentation for theirs. I haven't personally seen it but that's what they say...

On the guarantee of good tone... I am with you on that it cannot be guaranteed. It is the sum of all parts as we know it right? I guess where I was coming from was from your initial post (post #2) where you mentioned that the wood is guaranteed to sound good --> "these tops were guaranteed to sound good"

Best of luck to you on your toneful quest
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Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2010, 05:57:19 AM »
i'd be better if he does present any sort of documentation for the claimed woods, i couldnt justify with pictures alone that wood is OLD Growth wood..

Offline jimny

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2010, 06:00:04 AM »
Quote
On the guarantee of good tone... I am with you on that it cannot be guaranteed. It is the sum of all parts as we know it right? I guess where I was coming from was from your initial post (post #2) where you mentioned that the wood is guaranteed to sound good --> "these tops were guaranteed to sound good"


+1

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2010, 06:02:11 AM »
i think old growth wood isn't really as much about the "age" of the wood but where the wood was taken from... with the more important thing being that the wood came from the old primary growth forests... Hopefully yours is indeed OLD GROWTH wood and not just old wood ... old wood would be my grandfather, god rest his soul hehe  :lol: Hopefully your luthier can provide good documentation on it as well. He should be able to do so ... the likes of D Johnson from what I know are able to provide documentation for theirs. I haven't personally seen it but that's what they say...

On the guarantee of good tone... I am with you on that it cannot be guaranteed. It is the sum of all parts as we know it right? I guess where I was coming from was from your initial post (post #2) where you mentioned that the wood is guaranteed to sound good --> "these tops were guaranteed to sound good"

Best of luck to you on your toneful quest

Luthier only uses OLD GROWTH on all his wood.  Remember, we are just at top selection.  After top selection, I will ask for the papers for the maple top.

Yup it is the sum of ALL the parts as we know it but with the primary factor driven by the wood.  So with skepticism but he has kept reassuring me that he understand how wood can be variable and that theres more bad sounding wood.  Hindi ko lang siya masindak dahil mukhang alam niya because of his breadth of experience.

Thanks for the well wishing.

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2010, 06:06:31 AM »

On the guarantee of good tone... I am with you on that it cannot be guaranteed. It is the sum of all parts as we know it right? I guess where I was coming from was from your initial post (post #2) where you mentioned that the wood is guaranteed to sound good --> "these tops were guaranteed to sound good"

Best of luck to you on your toneful quest

i like the quickness of flippo, i do know those will guarantee to look so good

Offline bgarcia

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2010, 06:07:00 AM »
I'm guessing the final product is burst replica.

I'd choose a top with combination of flat sawn and quartersawn grains. Definitely not choosing all quartersawn grains with perfect straight flames (e.g. Tops a & b).

Tops K to P are nice.

Good luck with the build.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2010, 06:07:51 AM »
i'd be better if he does present any sort of documentation for the claimed woods, i couldnt justify with pictures alone that wood is OLD Growth wood..

Yup but you ain't a luthier kaya you depend on documentation like me.  Sometimes Bryan you have to learn to trust specially if you start spending upwards of US$3k.  And a lot of these luthiers are not only well skiled and gifted but they are also honest.  I think we doubt a lot as Filipinos because a lot of Filipino luthiers are dishonest.  Mang Rudy was one of the dishonest luthiers I got to know and it has painfully colored the way I look at local luthiers.  Parating alam natin na may naka tagong 'Whats in it for them' sa lahat ng transaction.  I guess its one of the bad traits we have as Filipinos -- to be on our guard because maraming nan lolokong Pinoy.  

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2010, 06:10:16 AM »
i like the quickness of flippo, i do know those will guarantee to look so good

And sound good too... which is what I am taking a risk on.  Its one tough FMJ to take on the first step of a build.

Offline firewaterjem

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2010, 06:26:53 AM »


@TS...

i'm a noob in this area...

how do you define "action"?

and what does it has to do if its a flame top or quilted maple?

just needed some enlightenment...

thanks...

Offline pangalan

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2010, 06:41:43 AM »
I'm guessing its a burst replica by Gil Yaron.

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2010, 06:55:36 AM »
Yup but you ain't a luthier kaya you depend on documentation like me.  Sometimes Bryan you have to learn to trust specially if you start spending upwards of US$3k.  And a lot of these luthiers are not only well skiled and gifted but they are also honest.  I think we doubt a lot as Filipinos because a lot of Filipino luthiers are dishonest.  Mang Rudy was one of the dishonest luthiers I got to know and it has painfully colored the way I look at local luthiers.  Parating alam natin na may naka tagong 'Whats in it for them' sa lahat ng transaction.  I guess its one of the bad traits we have as Filipinos -- to be on our guard because maraming nan lolokong Pinoy.  

alex i do know what you mean, but i personally doubt anybody despite of race, color, nationality...i cant trust a 'secret unmentioned luthier' for the sake of my opinion..being level minded is not wrong when i dont know who the person is..i also screen products that are intended for the financial area for credit unions and these marketing [gooey brown stuff] come in every color,race,nationality,from every state...personal things aside. i have no experience with those local luzon luthiers and i have no plans yet of getting a custom without testing one especially at the price point they expect..although cheaper than most usa made guitars, i cant comment on something i havent tried from 'a' builder

that being said, i do hope you get what you want from this builder...i dont want to hear claims that he can beat any builder even being blind folded, if the ETA is 1 year it will be 1 year..if the price is 5K+..as we say here..it is what it is

Offline Filippo

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2010, 06:57:14 AM »
I'm guessing its a burst replica by Gil Yaron.

that's a good guess  8-)
We're all just caretakers. And some better than others.

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2010, 07:00:55 AM »

@TS...

i'm a noob in this area...

how do you define "action"?

and what does it has to do if its a flame top or quilted maple?

just needed some enlightenment...

thanks...

probably movement, im not sure if its the figuring he meant or when you flip a top near a light source, it has that certain 3d effect..

I'm guessing its a burst replica by Gil Yaron.

now you mentioned that..hmm

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2010, 07:57:40 AM »
Wow. The suspense is killing you guys. 

Esse, Pangalan, any tops you like?

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2010, 08:00:34 AM »
alex i do know what you mean, but i personally doubt anybody despite of race, color, nationality...i cant trust a 'secret unmentioned luthier' for the sake of my opinion..being level minded is not wrong when i dont know who the person is..i also screen products that are intended for the financial area for credit unions and these marketing [gooey brown stuff] come in every color,race,nationality,from every state...personal things aside. i have no experience with those local luzon luthiers and i have no plans yet of getting a custom without testing one especially at the price point they expect..although cheaper than most usa made guitars, i cant comment on something i havent tried from 'a' builder

that being said, i do hope you get what you want from this builder...i dont want to hear claims that he can beat any builder even being blind folded, if the ETA is 1 year it will be 1 year..if the price is 5K+..as we say here..it is what it is

Just to clarify -- the builder did not claim to beat any builder even blind folded.  I am just saying I BELIEVE that he is one of the best in the world.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2010, 08:10:52 AM »

@TS...

i'm a noob in this area...

how do you define "action"?

and what does it has to do if its a flame top or quilted maple?

just needed some enlightenment...

thanks...

Well "action" is similar to those hologram cards which has this 3D effect at a certain angle.  Flame is more known for this as compared to quilt.  Quilt is so beautiful when done properly but tends to remain flat and 2D.  After awhile, like any custom paint job -- nagiging nakakasaw tingnan.  Since may action ang isang magandang flame top, its less nakakasawa in the long run.

Offline rockarolla

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2010, 08:26:34 AM »
i'm pretty sure your trusted luthier plus your overall supervision can pull this project off. can't wait to see the first phase of the build. way to go bro  8-)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 08:31:43 AM by rockarolla »
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Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2010, 08:30:10 AM »
i'm pretty sure your trusted luthier plus your overall supervision and can pull this project off. can't wait to see the first phase of the build. way to go bro  8-)

Thanks for the support.

Offline pangalan

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2010, 08:32:31 AM »
Esse, Pangalan, any tops you like?

My kind of top is a perfect balance of flames and wood grain. Its really tricky choosing any favorites just by looking at photos because, as you know, flames look different under different lighting. But i'm digging F, K, N, O, R, S.

Offline magtataho7

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2010, 09:08:01 AM »
I'm stuck with the el cheapo brands like Samick, Boston, Fernando, etc. etc.

Some local luthier warned me na "Wag mong pakinggan yung mga gamit ng tone snobs live, baka magbago taste mo" and said that I should cut my Philmusic browsing so I might avoid those GAS-tos moments.

But damn, these high standards are so enticing. I believe that I have yet to gather experience (and cash) to fully judge and enjoy tones made by these custom guitars.

Hay, I really wish I could be in that spot where firemodel is. payaman muna para may pambili. Sir, baka pwedeng pumunta sa listening session niyan?
BLAH

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2010, 09:14:20 AM »
I'm stuck with the el cheapo brands like Samick, Boston, Fernando, etc. etc.

Some local luthier warned me na "Wag mong pakinggan yung mga gamit ng tone snobs live, baka magbago taste mo" and said that I should cut my Philmusic browsing so I might avoid those GAS-tos moments.

But damn, these high standards are so enticing. I believe that I have yet to gather experience (and cash) to fully judge and enjoy tones made by these custom guitars.

Hay, I really wish I could be in that spot where firemodel is. payaman muna para may pambili. Sir, baka pwedeng pumunta sa listening session niyan?

Sure.  Its being planned this early.  Plano nga namin magpa cater buong araw at sa open air rooftop plano gawin para ang mga 100 watt heads ko ay ma todo at magdala sa gitara na ito.  By the way, for the money, ok sa akin ang samick in terms of craftsmanship -- much better than Max Rufo guitars.  Iyon lang nga, walang customization options.