OD/DIST RESULTS/photos are in. lawl

[vegetablejoe]

Interesting! I hope to attend this one.

Additional pedal sorting & classification may be needed: some pedals are meant to be used on a clean amp; while others are meant for an amp already running hot...

Just imho: too many guitars will make the shootout unwieldable. Tama na siguro one humbucker guitar and one single coil guitar....

If there's a TS clone category, will volunteer my Lovepedal E6 and VS Route 808.

[deltaslim]

Can I suggest this kind of format?

Headstock might actually be a good venue if we do at least the layout and presentation this way cuz they have some kind of sound booth there right in front of the audience. The demo-boy can be off to the side a little so the engineers can make signals to the audience and get immediate feedback. Am not too sure about the head-to-head elimination system though.  

For this to be a success, there should be one team who'll work on compiling the "participant" pedals and/or gear and there should be another team who'll work on the rules of the shootout.

Who'll do what? Let's go!

If you guys are ok with it, I'm willing to design the shootout mechanics, tweaking the earlier methodology we used (eg, using transparent amp). I think I wrote that down at the time.  

There should be a team (3 pax?) who will do the set-up and tweaking of pedals live to match vol levels, tone balance, etc.

Then there should be an MC and overall coordinator who interfaces w/ the sound engineers and the audience to signal what pedal is being tested, at what gain settings, etc...

Sino pa magvolunteer?  C'mon guys!

It's not a bad idea at all to build on the previous rules of the 2007 shootout and refine them.

I strongly vote lang for a transparent amp so that the pedals will be heard on their own merits (aka standalone tone) rather than being part of a "system". Kasi kung mix and match tayo, 2012 na di pa tayo tapos.

If ever we use 2 amps, we won't mix and match but rather test each pedal thru each amp. Yun nga lang mas matagal. Maybe we can use a Fender tube amp (Deluxe Reverb) as amp reference then test w/ clean and on the edge of break up levels? Tonal balance will be between mid-scoop Fender and middy Marshall. Gain structure will also be more variegated.

Interesting! I hope to attend this one.

Additional pedal sorting & classification may be needed: some pedals are meant to be used on a clean amp; while others are meant for an amp already running hot...

Just imho: too many guitars will make the shootout unwieldable. Tama na siguro one humbucker guitar and one single coil guitar....

If there's a TS clone category, will volunteer my Lovepedal E6 and VS Route 808.

Maybe one parameter per pedal test is testing on 2 amp settings: clean and on the edge of breakup.

Suggestion ko pedal categories: OD and Distortion.  Bayaan na natin yung ears ng audience mag-assess if they like TS vs transparent pedals instead of making them go head to head in one category.

[deltaslim]

Btw, one good suggestion from Joey P when we were discussing this previously was that there should be a backing track. As we all know, what sounds glorious by itself can sound like cr*p in a live band setting.

But for the guitar tone to be heard in proper context dapat the backing track AS WELL AS the guitar tone should be fed into a mixer.

Guitar(s) -> Pedal(s) -> Amp -> Mic / BT -> Mixer -> PA -> Audience.

[psychic_sushi]

Just reiterating that i feel that we should have a solid state amp in the backline.

Its cool to have a tube fender (scooped mids) and a tube marshall (for the accentuated mids), but a lion's share of the musicians here and alot of the venues use solid state amps. It'll help balance the force  

@fafa BAMF-
methinks the Yamaha J is pretty neutral. If all agrees on this, I sure hope it would be loud enough. and indeed, going through every amp and variation will push us beyond the end of the Mayan Long Count calendar!

@ delta-
as for the mechanics, I say "go for it!" . i agree that we should have a team tackle the tweaking, in sync with an MC. me digs the shuffling through gain settings.

@vegetablejoe-
makes sense to have just 1 singlecoil guitar and 1 hb loaded guitar as baselines. a strat and a lp, perhaps. methinks they would give a great representation of what to hear and generally expect. it would be crazy to figure in all the variations- semi-hollow & chambered, super strats, floyd & non-tremelo and the whole kit and kaboodle. when you think about it, with strats and teles along you'll be lumberjacking through wood material (1p maple neck vs rosewood board, alder vs ash, etc etc)... i'm just sayin..

i see the mayan calendar again for that, and less focus. if others are interested they can bring their own guitars to audition the pedals that tickled their fancy post shoot-out.

which now has me thinking, we gotta yank nathan in (or whoever is available or willing) to join me as the demo boy? and who'd like to volunteer their LP?

[free2rock]

Sino pa magvolunteer?  C'mon guys!

Seeing how complicated and tedious the approach will be, I think I'll just be a spectator. Kidding! Hehehe

[psychic_sushi]

Btw, one good suggestion from Joey P when we were discussing this previously was that there should be a backing track. As we all know, what sounds glorious by itself can sound like cr*p in a live band setting.

But for the guitar tone to be heard in proper context dapat the backing track AS WELL AS the guitar tone should be fed into a mixer.

Guitar(s) -> Pedal(s) -> Amp -> Mic / BT -> Mixer -> PA -> Audience.

was also thinking about this rev.

the tone "alone" wouldn't indeed be enough.

was thinking-
1. riff
2. chords
3. solo line
4. pedal with BT.

* with variation of dynamics through 1-3   and i dunno if it would help to check the responsiveness of the pedal via the guitar's volume & tone knob would help everyone.

[Poundcake]

Joric, I'm volunteering to be a part of the set-up/tweak team

Go ahead with the shootout mechanics!

[deltaslim]

Just reiterating that i feel that we should have a solid state amp in the backline.

Its cool to have a tube fender (scooped mids) and a tube marshall (for the accentuated mids), but a lion's share of the musicians here and alot of the venues use solid state amps. It'll help balance the force 

@fafa BAMF-
methinks the Yamaha J is pretty neutral. If all agrees on this, I sure hope it would be loud enough. and indeed, going through every amp and variation will push us beyond the end of the Mayan Long Count calendar!

How about a ZT Club or Roland JC? As transparent as it gets

@ delta-
as for the mechanics, I say "go for it!" . i agree that we should have a team tackle the tweaking, in sync with an MC. me digs the shuffling through gain settings.

Well actually I'm just going to put together our ideas and consensus items.

@vegetablejoe-
makes sense to have just 1 singlecoil guitar and 1 hb loaded guitar as baselines. a strat and a lp, perhaps. methinks they would give a great representation of what to hear and generally expect. it would be crazy to figure in all the variations- semi-hollow & chambered, super strats, floyd & non-tremelo and the whole kit and kaboodle. when you think about it, with strats and teles along you'll be lumberjacking through wood material (1p maple neck vs rosewood board, alder vs ash, etc etc)... i'm just sayin..

i see the mayan calendar again for that, and less focus. if others are interested they can bring their own guitars to audition the pedals that tickled their fancy post shoot-out.

which now has me thinking, we gotta yank nathan in (or whoever is available or willing) to join me as the demo boy? and who'd like to volunteer their LP?

Maybe we can have 2 demoboys using 2 diff. guitars, one SC (Strat/Tele) and one HB (LP), plugged into an ABY box/splitter, playing in turn as well as TOGETHER thru a BT. Trading 8s is a great way to A/B tonal difference of either guitar thru the same pedal.


Already poked Nathan. Busy siguro.

Joric, I'm volunteering to be a part of the set-up/tweak team

Go ahead with the shootout mechanics!

I was hoping you would. Now put your team together!

Si Turi pwedeng MC aside from Executive Producer-cum-Gear Pimp Daddy.

[stefan_hendrixx]

ok to ah sana makapunta ako!

[psychic_sushi]

How about a ZT Club or Roland JC? As transparent as it gets

Well actually I'm just going to put together our ideas and consensus items.


Maybe we can have 2 demoboys using 2 diff. guitars, one SC (Strat/Tele) and one HB (LP), plugged into an ABY box/splitter, playing in turn as well as TOGETHER thru a BT. Trading 8s is a great way to A/B tonal difference of either guitar thru the same pedal.


Already poked Nathan. Busy siguro.


I was hoping you would. Now put your team together!

Si Turi pwedeng MC aside from Executive Producer-cum-Gear Pimp Daddy.

Roland JC methinks is the industry standard SS  i hope one can play a role.

I totally dig the idea of trading 8s!

[vegetablejoe]

...
and who'd like to volunteer their LP?

am sure marami pwede mag-provide... but for those who may be afraid to get their guitar's gorgeous finish nicked, maybe my battered Greco will suffice...

[BAMF]

Roland JC methinks is the industry standard SS  i hope one can play a role.

I totally dig the idea of trading 8s!

+1 with Roland JC. The Yamaha J Series might be too brutally honest and unflattering/uninspiring. Just turn the chorus off ha, masyado na maganda

[nathanmanansala]

i volunteer myself ulit as demo boy, representing the regular-joe, in-store wanker who tries not to play stairway to heaven.

[Al_Librero]

+1 with Roland JC. The Yamaha J Series might be too brutally honest and unflattering/uninspiring. Just turn the chorus off ha, masyado na maganda

On the contrary, I think something like a Yamaha J Series is exactly what you guys need, along with other local bread and butter amps like a Marshall Valvestate or a Peavey Studio Pro rather than a Roland JC, which relatively few people have access to. I'm sure you'll be posting results, so it makes sense to use stuff the majority can relate to amp-wise.

[psychic_sushi]

+1 with Roland JC. The Yamaha J Series might be too brutally honest and unflattering/uninspiring. Just turn the chorus off ha, masyado na maganda

On the contrary, I think something like a Yamaha J Series is exactly what you guys need, along with other local bread and butter amps like a Marshall Valvestate or a Peavey Studio Pro rather than a Roland JC, which relatively few people have access to. I'm sure you'll be posting results, so it makes sense to use stuff the majority can relate to amp-wise.

its a tough call!

i volunteer myself ulit as demo boy, representing the regular-joe, in-store wanker who tries not to play stairway to heaven.

Awesome! Then we'll be jamming smells like teen spirit 

[mrbrownstone]

@Turi -

Please add ZAB electronics. thats musikerchan's stuff. I'll bring what I have and what he may send to me. Will communicate it to him.

@Fafa BAMF-

I totally agree!

How about we throw in the common solid state amps as well, such as the makes and models that we find in bars? That would subject the pedals to a reality check also.

Also...

Can I volunteer as the demo boy? pretty pretty please?  

If you guys agree, we'll have to agree on whether I have to remain impartial or if my say counts.

I'll bring tele and stratocaster. You guys can bring HB loaded stuff so we can hear how the peds sound through different standard guitars.

i remember being amazed by your playing than the pedals during the first shootout   so is nathan's playing

@ turi/ian/joric- would you consider testing the OD's as clean boost too?

[deltaslim]

On the contrary, I think something like a Yamaha J Series is exactly what you guys need, along with other local bread and butter amps like a Marshall Valvestate or a Peavey Studio Pro rather than a Roland JC, which relatively few people have access to. I'm sure you'll be posting results, so it makes sense to use stuff the majority can relate to amp-wise.

I'm all for getting a widely-accepted tonal reference but which model or specific amp? Some of those Marshall  VS and Peavey Studio/Bandit amps sound anemic, some sound great.

[Al_Librero]

I'm all for getting a widely-accepted tonal reference but which model or specific amp? Some of those Marshall  VS and Peavey Studio/Bandit amps sound anemic, some sound great.

Whatever is available would most likely be fine. But if the luxury to choose is there... a VS8040, AVT50 and/or a red line Studio Pro/Bandit at least? Another interesting experiment is to use a modeling amp as well. But I won't impose. 

[pitongjerome]

How about adding a distortion pedal into a solid state vs tube amp blind test? Let's see if most can identify tube vs ss in distortions, using the same pedal.

[7stringmachine]

+1 with Roland JC. The Yamaha J Series might be too brutally honest and unflattering/uninspiring. Just turn the chorus off ha, masyado na maganda

+1

[free2rock]

i volunteer myself ulit as demo boy, representing the regular-joe, in-store wanker who tries not to play stairway to heaven.

LOL

[BAMF]

Nakuh. If the choice were a Marshall of any voice and a Yamaha J series, I'd take the latter one any day for referencing pedal tone. A marshall voiced pedal passed through a marshall voiced amp will sound horrendous. That's my experience anyway. So better go with an unvoiced amp.

[mikki_blinkme]

How about adding a distortion pedal into a solid state vs tube amp blind test? Let's see if most can identify tube vs ss in distortions, using the same pedal.

AGREE!

[teleclem]

Nakuh. If the choice were a Marshall of any voice and a Yamaha J series, I'd take the latter one any day for referencing pedal tone. A marshall voiced pedal passed through a marshall voiced amp will sound horrendous. That's my experience anyway. So better go with an unvoiced amp.

Agree

[Poundcake]

If we're talking clean tone, I suggest the ZT Lunchbox and maybe a Peavey Classic 30. Both set at equal volumes. The output of the OD/distortion pedal goes into an A/B switch. Now we can test each pedal with both solidstate and tube amp outputs. Maybe we can have "S/S" and "tube" scoring as well. What do you think, Joric?