There's no excuse for playing a bad cover....

[challengeofthegobots]

Three different players, one song (although jack's version is EJ's live version). all have taken the pains and time to play it correctly and be able to play it with emotionI've seen a lot of players play this song and disrespect the actual song and masking their inability to play it correctly by saying "this is my version of..." when what it really means "this is the only way I can play it and so I'll call it "my version" so you'll think I can play it correctly but i just can't take the pains of learning it note for note" just to avoid the haters.

There's even some guys who get a backing track and just wank away and improvising over it, some sound good, some don't. And then post it on YouTube and say its "in the style of"

Now before i say my piece on them, let me just get it out in the open.... I cannot play guitar to save my life, thats how bad I am. I'm happy with my level of playing. My bedroom's happy with it, my wife well... errrr she loves me no matter what.

But, however good you think you are on improvising, if you cannot cover a song correctly (and channel feeling through that cover) you aint that good. It shows that you attempted to play something but you actually can't for whatever reason. Personally, I don't attempt at all. But that aside, I think this is one of the reasons why we have a proliferation of mediocre players everywhere. People just go ahead "improvising" their solos even with very little knowledge of theory and considerable technical skill and just try to pass themselves off as intermediate players. Some even go to the extent of posting a lesson or two probably to gain a sense of security in their own playing thinking that others would find their "betcha cant play this vid" interesting at least. I'm also blaming this sort of attitude for the decay of today's music.

My point is you just cant pick-up a dslr and pass yourself as a pro photographer, you can't just learn to use a stethoscope and call yourself a doctor, and you can just read the constitution and call yourself a lawyer, so why should anyone be able to pick-up the guitar and call themselves a guitarist?

Just a thought and a call-out to whoever thinks he can to please push the envelope and not accept mediocrity. As for me I have no choice but to be less than mediocre..

Here's another guy who can cover PG note for note and can improvise like crazy...

just some middle-of-the-night thoughts (instead of literally wanking off)

"Reminder, this is not a note-for-note VS improvisation thread but a PUSH YOUR PLAYING FURTHER thread"

[haxo55]

I'm not a guitarist, i just own a guitar haha,
nice topic, bookmark ko to

[RedWinG]

compelling thoughts, sir.

okay, back to my room lock the door and play some more and get it right this time. 

[perfectriff]

nice read and a very good point... +1000^999 with the DSLR. ^_^

i'm below mediocre too.

As far as improvising without knowing: in my room, Guilty. Pero never sa live. But I'm not against players who improvise and "play around" with solos. IMO, you can improvise LIVE iff you know how to play it as it was originally written.

slightly OT:
I'm sick of people with DSLRs taking a picture and putting [name]photography in the top/bottom considering that they don't know the firdt thing about photography. No offense meant, just MO.

[RedWinG]

nice read and a very good point... +1000^999 with the DSLR. ^_^

i'm below mediocre too.

As far as improvising without knowing: in my room, Guilty. Pero never sa live. But I'm not against players who improvise and "play around" with solos. IMO, you can improvise LIVE iff you know how to play it as it was originally written.

slightly OT:
I'm sick of people with DSLRs taking a picture and putting [name]photography in the top/bottom considering that they don't know the firdt thing about photography. No offense meant, just MO.

my sentiments exactly 

[dyames]

amen!

That's why I love my family! they don't diss my guitar-playing!

Also, I'm not a guitarist, I just know a little bit about the guitar. hehe!

[guitarman8294]

amen!

That's why I love my family! they don't diss my guitar-playing!

Also, I'm not a guitarist, I just know a little bit about the guitar. hehe!

+100
same here. 

[guitarwiz02]

There's really nothing wrong in improvising. The guitar player has the full liberty to play what he/she wants to play, so as long as it's still within the full context of the song. The guitarist is not out there to please everyone, 'coz you just can't. So, it's just a matter of whether you're gonna like what the guitar player does/did or not.

When you play a cover song, it doesn't compel you to play or execute everything note for note. You can play around with it, in fact. Kiko Loureiro and Mattias Eklundh are two of the best guitar players today that play differently on records and in live. In a live set-up, they improvise a lot to the point that what they play is sometimes no longer identical to the original or record version.

By the way, let me just say that Gustav Guerra is the better guitar player compared to the other two above.

[perfectriff]

Well, the TS posted links to cover/s of ERIC JOHNSON' Manhattan and PAUL GILBERT's Silence Followed by A Deafening Roar.

These are guitar instrumentals (correct me if i'm wrong, yun ang tawag ko dun e.) and not those with lyrics. So basically, as a guitar player, the first thing one needs to know to cover these songs is HOW TO PLAY THEM CORRECTLY. Otherwise, one's cover is not good at all. It could be 'OK', but it won't get past that.

Sa mga kanta, may 'obligated' parts (in this case, riffs) and with these songs, all guitar parts are 'obligated'. Imagine GNR's 'Sweet Child O' Mine' with a different intro because the player doesn't know how to play the original and makes his own version instead. 

As for songs with lyrics, I've no problem hearing different solos, iba lang talaga pag mga ganitong klase e.

I'm not saying na kaya ko, wala pa ako sa kalingkingan nitong mga to.   

[blindman]

the important thing is we play with all our hearts and play the best we can...

[challengeofthegobots]

There's really nothing wrong in improvising. The guitar player has the full liberty to play what he/she wants to play, so as long as it's still within the full context of the song. The guitarist is not out there to please everyone, 'coz you just can't. So, it's just a matter of whether you're gonna like what the guitar player does/did or not.

When you play a cover song, it doesn't compel you to play or execute everything note for note. You can play around with it, in fact. Kiko Loureiro and Mattias Eklundh are two of the best guitar players today that play differently in records and in live. In a live set-up, they improvise a lot to the point that what they play is sometimes no longer identical to the original or record version.

By the way, let me just say that Gustav Guerra is the better guitar player compared to the other two above.

Really nothing wrong with improvising. Improv is a great skill to master. Agreed.

However, its not about improvising. Its about, trying to pass something off as a cover when its actually a half-hearted rendition. I think, if you want to play a song and improvise your way thru it, thats ok. But, just like songs with vocals, you don't just change the lyrics whenever you feel like it. You don't just change the melody to suit your capacity. If you can't sing it note for note, you don't scat your way thru the song. It's just plain silly.

You don't bring the song down to your level, but rather bring yourself up to the level of the song. And when you're at that level, thats when you improvise. Do not use improvisation as an excuse not to play it right (not note for note but right).

On the other hand, on jazz jams, improv simply is a must.

And, I agree with you on Gustavo. Although, If Jack and him were on the same Guitar Idol competition I thnik Jack would've still won on the basis of their song entries respectively.

[samuelfianza]

IMO it's ok to improvise as long as the player admits it (if he couldn't play the original tune).

And for Instrumentals you can Improvise in the "Spaces" between the main Notes.

[IncX]

i would rather play bad covers, be insulted and improve slowly.

i would rather play a bad cover THAT I LIKED and enjoyed doing, post it on youtube and let people who can appreciate it check it out ... and of course, deal with the insults.

i'd do all of those, rather than be some critic, hating on mediocre players, while resigned, defeated and chickensh*t to get out of their bedrooms to play out.

if you are gonna be public about your critcisms, then you at least:

1.) not be a mediocre player.
2.) not be a bedroom musician
3.) be constructive about your criticisms.

why would you insult someone who sucks on a video? at least he was brave enough to post it.

[mikki_blinkme]

i would rather play bad covers, be insulted and improve slowly.

i would rather play a bad cover THAT I LIKED and enjoyed doing, post it on youtube and let people who can appreciate it check it out ... and of course, deal with the insults.

i'd do all of those, rather than be some critic, hating on mediocre players, while resigned, defeated and chickensh*t to get out of their bedrooms to play out.

if you are gonna be public about your critcisms, then you at least:

1.) not be a mediocre player.
2.) not be a bedroom musician
3.) be constructive about your criticisms.

why would you insult someone who sucks on a video? at least he was brave enough to post it.

+100

para sa akin... ni kahit sino walang karapatan. unless may ginagawang masama ang isang musikero or nagyayabang. 

[guitarman8294]

+100

para sa akin... ni kahit sino walang karapatan. unless may ginagawang masama ang isang musikero or nagyayabang. 

+100
 

[bugok]

someone once told me that if you're going to "cover", then do it as near to the actual piece as you can.....

...otherwise if your going to change the elements of the song, e.g. timing, some notes, key, etc., then that's doing a rendition.

Either way, you should be able to do the original song/piece justice by sounding "good", and by good I surrender that it will always depend on the listener (including the player, who obviously can listen to his own work)...

btw, the human brain automatically sorts the sounds it processes as either music or noise...

just an idea... cheers!

[guitarwiz02]

Really nothing wrong with improvising. Improv is a great skill to master. Agreed.

However, its not about improvising. Its about, trying to pass something off as a cover when its actually a half-hearted rendition. I think, if you want to play a song and improvise your way thru it, thats ok. But, just like songs with vocals, you don't just change the lyrics whenever you feel like it. You don't just change the melody to suit your capacity. If you can't sing it note for note, you don't scat your way thru the song. It's just plain silly.

You don't bring the song down to your level, but rather bring yourself up to the level of the song. And when you're at that level, thats when you improvise. Do not use improvisation as an excuse not to play it right (not note for note but right).

On the other hand, on jazz jams, improv simply is a must.

And, I agree with you on Gustavo. Although, If Jack and him were on the same Guitar Idol competition I thnik Jack would've still won on the basis of their song entries respectively.

There. You see, that's the difference between songs with lyrics and instrumental songs. Obviously, you can't alter the lyrics of a certain song, otherwise, it wouldn't have the same meaning. Unless done advertently or intentionally. On the other hand, with instrumental songs or pieces, it is safe to change some of the notes or lines according to your preference, as long you keep the original rhythm melody or the base melody intact and incorrupt.

Not playing a certain cover song note for note, doesn't always equate to the person not knowing how to play it right. Sometimes, it's just fun to play differently than that of the original. It helps you create your own thing and approach towards the guitar.

Master Perf De Castro, earlier, posted a video of himself jammin' over Steve Vai's "The Crying Machine". Though, he noted that it ain't a note for note rendition, do you think the guy can't play that darn song right?

[mikki_blinkme]

"Those who can't do... Criticize" in general. Get over it. Di na natin kelangan pang maging major in guitar/music. Masyadong malawak ang musika as an art. Walang dapat sisihin. Dyan tayo magaling manisi at mamuna ng iba. Let it be. I think more on expression at least di copycat. Lagi na lang tayo nagbibigay ng "standards" na kesyo ganyan ganito dapat lagi na lang puro dapat. Sino ba tayo?

Let the guitar/music talks. Kung ayaw di wag. Haters gone hate. Tama na.  Start teaching not preaching. Appreciation lang. Walang dapat sisihin.

[Al_Librero]

I have mixed feelings about this thread. On one hand, I'm man enough to admit that I react the same way as the TS from time to time. On the other hand, it's something I would never profess in such a manner here. Even if I did, personally, I would do my best to walk the talk first. Failure to do so takes me one step towards hypocrisy in my own book. But again, that's just me. 

So when I start feeling this sentiment, I do what some people might advise you to do -- I stop listening.

[juan_portnoy]

My point is you just cant pick-up a dslr and pass yourself as a pro photographer, you can't just learn to use a stethoscope and call yourself a doctor, and you can just read the constitution and call yourself a lawyer, so why should anyone be able to pick-up the guitar and call themselves a guitarist?

Where do I go to take the licensure exam? 

[mikki_blinkme]

Where do I go to take the licensure exam? 

meryenda lang ako. nagutom ako sa katatawa. 

[candyapplered]

i bet we're all guilty of this -- we don't have to be experts to criticize someone who plays out in the open. we don't have to be better than the ones we criticize in order to speak our minds out, and there's nothing wrong with that. we all can't be pleased with the same thing. what's ok for you won't be good for everyone, period.

what good it would be if all criticism would be constructive: an indication of this is when it pains you to give your thoughts on something because you know it just ain't right. BUT when you take the slightest pleasure in criticizing, that's when you should hold back.

[guitarwiz02]

My point is you just cant pick-up a dslr and pass yourself as a pro photographer, you can't just learn to use a stethoscope and call yourself a doctor, and you can just read the constitution and call yourself a lawyer, so why should anyone be able to pick-up the guitar and call themselves a guitarist?

E ano itatawag sa kanila? Pianista?

[candyapplered]

^^ based sa analogy, i think what he meant was "pro guitarist"

[Ryn]

E ano itatawag sa kanila? Pianista?

Hindi bro, taga-buhat ng gitara lol!