Why do corksniffers hate everything that is made in China?

[challengeofthegobots]

Its because they're corksniffers. They believe/claim they can tell the quality of the wine just by sniffing the cork. In this case, they believe they can tell the quality of a particular gear from its country of origin.

I would still rely on my personal evaluation system to avoid lemons: Research before buying (brand, specs, etc.), actual examination, inspection, and testing, and discipline to walk away form the purchase when it has failed the exam. I can't let a label that says MIC stop me from enjoying something that could be good or great.

Wrong. There's a difference between MADE IN CHINA and CLASS A CHINA PRODUCT (knock offs); one is original but China-made, one is a fake.

Quite frankly if we all had plenty of money to spare i don't think anybody would choose a China product over anything. Tell me I'm wrong?

But since the problem of money is there, we compromise by buying MIC, and convince ourselves that the sound difference isn't enough to merit buying the more expensive MIA/MIJ/whatever else.

You're wrong.

I enjoy the disposable nature of cheap gear. Even if I could afford it, like laptops, I can afford changing them every year because I only buy the rebranded MIC generics (MSI/NEO) this i7 laptop I use now is half the price of a vaio with comparable specs. Now I can't live with myself having purchased a vaio (even if I could afford it), when my only intent is to use it through its warranty. Technology today is tomorrow's junk, the money I can spare is still not money I would like to waste.

My MIC Ibby is my "workhorse" guitar aside from it being more comfortable than my MIA Strat, I can beat on it 'til its demise without worry of losing too much investment... its durability has become a bonus. The strat is just there for the "wow MIA, ang pogi mo" sake of it. Although, admittedly the strat sounds better on any day, I rarely use it to preserve it. I recently bought an Ifung for our caretaker's daughter (debut gift yun walang malisya hahaha) in the province for 2+k, and it was a good knock off until you opened it, the display was substandard, but it was a sosyal gift for a small price. Quality takes a backseat in these cases. Life is happier and corksniffers are missing out on this.

Corksniffers are corksniffers, thats it. In a blind test on different days of a guitar or amp of the same brand and unit, I bet they wouldn't be able to tell if its MIC or MIA. Unless, probably when its A/B'd side by side but then again.

[firemodel55]

not because of the name, but the tones it can deliver. products from egnater, bugera , line 6

Yuck... they sound ordinary.

[firemodel55]

Mafren, I must admit I like that comment.

So many people are so obsessed over America this, America that, hanggang sa point na ang jebs nila kamukha na ni Uncle Sam. They don't even think of giving China half a chance to prove its worth as a maker of quality equipment. Not all their equipment is quality, but fcuk that, mafrens, these corksniffers smack of closet racism. 

What exactly is a MIC piece of gear that you own should be given half the chance?

[challengeofthegobots]

Yuck... they sound ordinary.

[badongrodrigs]

You're wrong.

I'm not wrong. Are you telling me that in a utopian world where we are all rich that you will still opt to buy MIC over MIA/MIJ?

Laptops are loads different. For one, their performance aren't based on personal taste, unlike guitars where you and i can claim "I love this MIC tone, bakit ba?" Same with cars and cellphones. They're not really comparable to guitars.

[firemodel55]

and if i may add..for some people they get the job done.true, us made guitars are better built.that's a given. but if you do the math and consider the price difference, not everybody could afford a us made guitar or would choose one even if they could afford it.
i have a friend who owns a us made guitar but admits he likes the tone of my china-made guitar.he says, it even sounds better than our friend's epi (same type) which costs about 4X more.
craftmanship and materials are ok. it's not perfect and needed set-up. but then, even pros have their new guitars set-up. now, i wouldn't expect it to be better than us made guitars but i wouldn't be willing to pay top dollar for a guitar either.     

I have a question -- how many U.S. made guitars have you and your friend tried and owned and how many China made guitars have you and your friend tried and owned?

Since my four U.S. guitars have arrived in Manila their necks have stayed true and have not required ANY set up at all other than my string choice and action preferences.  Furthermore when it comes to looks and feel, they don't feel like cheap Chinese guitars.  Consequently, since you did not pay top dollar, don't also expect anyone to buy the MIC for top dollar later if and when you decide to sell it some time in the future.

[firemodel55]

Its because they're corksniffers. They believe/claim they can tell the quality of the wine just by sniffing the cork. In this case, they believe they can tell the quality of a particular gear from its country of origin.

I would still rely on my personal evaluation system to avoid lemons: Research before buying (brand, specs, etc.), actual examination, inspection, and testing, and discipline to walk away form the purchase when it has failed the exam. I can't let a label that says MIC stop me from enjoying something that could be good or great.

(The one thing you forgot was that it needed it to sound good and great.)

You're wrong.

I enjoy the disposable nature of cheap gear. Even if I could afford it, like laptops, I can afford changing them every year because I only buy the rebranded MIC generics (MSI/NEO) this i7 laptop I use now is half the price of a vaio with comparable specs. Now I can't live with myself having purchased a vaio (even if I could afford it), when my only intent is to use it through its warranty. Technology today is tomorrow's junk, the money I can spare is still not money I would like to waste.

(Following your logic then you should change your MIC guitar every year.)

My MIC Ibby is my "workhorse" guitar aside from it being more comfortable than my MIA Strat, I can beat on it 'til its demise without worry of losing too much investment... its durability has become a bonus. The strat is just there for the "wow MIA, ang pogi mo" sake of it. Although, admittedly the strat sounds better on any day, I rarely use it to preserve it. I recently bought an Ifung for our caretaker's daughter (debut gift yun walang malisya hahaha) in the province for 2+k, and it was a good knock off until you opened it, the display was substandard, but it was a sosyal gift for a small price. Quality takes a backseat in these cases. Life is happier and corksniffers are missing out on this.

(You don't beat on a good and great sounding guitar -- you respect it.  I would even sell off a MIA Strat if it sounds horrible and buy more good sounding MIC Strats if there are any.  Tell you what, when you have some of the best MIA guitars in the world, the Ifung will just sit in a corner because its a waste of time and money.)

Corksniffers are corksniffers, thats it. In a blind test on different days of a guitar or amp of the same brand and unit, I bet they wouldn't be able to tell if its MIC or MIA. Unless, probably when its A/B'd side by side but then again.

(Don't need a blindfold test to tell you when something sounds bad.  I can pick all the good sounding amps and prove to you that they are either made in europe or in the USA.  When it comes to guitars, as I said before, there is a minimum standard and SORRY CHINA DON'T CUT IT.)

[jupe123]

this seems like an interesting topic ) gonna reply so i can get updates 

back to the topic:
i get why there are corksniffers. theyre the rich people that not only can buy a MIA guitar, but can buy multiple MIA guitars. and they dislike MIC guitars because its of a lesser quality than their MIA guitars.
in my opinion, we would all buy multiple MIA guitars if we could (dis mah dream!).
MIC is for people like me. the people that cant buy multiple MIA guitars. we can buy maybe one or two but thats it.

p.s. im still poor so all my guitars are all MIC

[challengeofthegobots]

I'm not wrong. Are you telling me that in a utopian world where we are all rich that you will still opt to buy MIC over MIA/MIJ?

Laptops are loads different. For one, their performance aren't based on personal taste, unlike guitars where you and i can claim "I love this MIC tone, bakit ba?" Same with cars and cellphones. They're not really comparable to guitars.

huh? I never said i liked the tone of my MIC better. I liked it for its disposability.

And you were replying to a post regarding iphones so you were implying a general nature not just guitars. Even if i had a lot of money i wouldn't use a 500 peso bill to light up my cigars. So if my purpose was to get a guitar to beat to death then why would I spend $$$ on it. Thats the beauty of MIC's: they're disposable. I'm no longer talking bout quality but the reason why I would prefer MIC. Now if I were to get gear that could double as the family crest then yes I would avoid China.

And nope we don't live in a Utopian world. In a Utopian world you would be right.

[alvinratsim]

[robo-rat]

[challengeofthegobots]

(The one thing you forgot was that it needed it to sound good and great.)

No they don't always have to. If I were to beat it and use it the way I would be happy to, then tone is secondary. If I were gonna brag about it in a forum and claim it has mystical powers then it would at least have to have good tone.

(Following your logic then you should change your MIC guitar every year.)

Seems you have a hard time following logic.... Technology today is junk tomorrow. The RG of last year is still the RG of this year. But last year I had an i5 now an i7... upgrade. Gets mo na? Gusto mong milk?

(You don't beat on a good and great sounding guitar -- you respect it.  I would even sell off a MIA Strat if it sounds horrible and buy more good sounding MIC Strats if there are any.  Tell you what, when you have some of the best MIA guitars in the world, the Ifung will just sit in a corner because its a waste of time and money.)

tell you what, when you can understand what you read, I'll throw a party for your guitar, and reserve your a guitar a VIP table at republiq. And tell the DJ to play some house tunes to pay tribute and show respect to your baker.

yes you dont beat on a good and great sounding guitar, you preserve it so you can use it for the right gig. (except for the guitar JM used in MJ's funeral)... but if you knew how to play guitar you would know that practicing beats up your guitar, so why would I waste my good and great sounding guitar on practice?

Don't need a blindfold test to tell you when something sounds bad.  I can pick all the good sounding amps and prove to you that they are either made in europe or in the USA.  When it comes to guitars, as I said before, there is a minimum standard and SORRY CHINA DON'T CUT IT.

But I'm willing to bet you can't tell the difference between bad and good either. January 2012 ba?

[badongrodrigs]

Yuck... they sound ordinary.

Firemodel55, I don't know you personally, but i've seen how you post since 2006 when you were still called Oasgomez.

Do you know what your problem is?

Your approach to music is through PERFECT SOUND by HIGH END GEAR. You have all the good sounding gear; top-notch guitars custom made by master builders, high-end amplifiers, possibly gold-plated picks, fur straps and whatever else, because you have invested in them. By all means and purposes, your SOUND should be heavenly, personal tastes aside.

I don't want to preempt anybody, but probably most of the guitar players here approach music in a mixture of GOOD SOUND by GOOD ENOUGH GEAR. And those GOOD ENOUGH gear are never good enough for you. Hence, you always snub your nose at EVERYTHING you think is below your own gear. I'm not saying you don't have the right to brag about your investments; I'm saying that most of the time you brag too much.

And I'm gonna point out the elephant in the room: You are a model example of the coined term in the thread-title "corksniffer". Much like how die-hard audiophiles will frown when hearing music through any medium other than their Hifi systems and vinyls, you will most probably frown when you hear the guitars from most anyone in this forum.

In Harry Potter terms, you're like a cross between Draco Malfoy and a dementor who sucks the good vibes out of people because they don't have the best wands and the fastest broomsticks.

[xaero]

Doesn't matter where it's made when you're gonna use it in a venue where pretty much everything sounds like shayt. You'd probably be better off with a segunda-mano where you can go all-out Pete Townshend and put on a good show.

[acidtest]

okay....   so for a working musician with 5 kids and ALL the bills he/she needs to pay(500 pesos a night talent fee), Chink made guitar is not acceptable???

[challengeofthegobots]

Doesn't matter where it's made when you're gonna use it in a venue where pretty much everything sounds like shayt. You'd probably better off with a segunda-mano where you can go all-out Pete Townshend and put on a good show.

tumpak!

How I wish I could wank like petey in Sazis or Route 196 without everybody thinking I had too much ganj.... (thats probably a topic that'd be nice for a new thread)

[Bolt Thrower]

buy a guitar that really inspires you to create songs and to go out there gigging. if an ibanez gio or an epiphone gets you there, it's all good. craftsmanship and things breaking down? you can worry about them later---just go fvckin' out there. musicians worth their salt all started that way.

[hollowtech]

I have a question -- how many U.S. made guitars have you and your friend tried and owned and how many China made guitars have you and your friend tried and owned?

Since my four U.S. guitars have arrived in Manila their necks have stayed true and have not required ANY set up at all other than my string choice and action preferences.  Furthermore when it comes to looks and feel, they don't feel like cheap Chinese guitars.  Consequently, since you did not pay top dollar, don't also expect anyone to buy the MIC for top dollar later if and when you decide to sell it some time in the future.

obviously less than you have.i won't argue about the quality of your guitars. but i don't buy guitars with the primary intention of selling them at a good price in the future or for the wow factor.i buy guitars to play and enjoy them.

[hollowtech]

Yuck... they sound ordinary.

maybe yes. but even top of the line gear would sound the same in the hands of an ordinary player.

[bryanarzaga]

Yuck... they sound ordinary.

i think you sound ordinary

[teleclem]

Consequently, since you did not pay top dollar, don't also expect anyone to buy the MIC for top dollar later if and when you decide to sell it some time in the future.

I guess that's one thing something MIC really doesn't have compared to higher end stuff - resale value.

It's an important consideration especially if you're the kind of gear buyer that buys and sells gear to afford/ease the next purchase. And I don't get how people say that they don't care about resale value because they buy to play. In rougher times, it will really mean a lot. (And since gas never really goes away.. you never know when you would be willing to sell that piece of gear for another one.) It's practical and prudent to think about resale value. Sure, it shouldn't stop one from buying something that is really great/appropriate but it should be a consideration. With pedals, stuff from china really get low used prices, kahit binili mo pa siya na bnew (in that case, you only get 20-40% back). With higher end stuff, you barely lose, if any, cash.

[jimy james]

feature=related

[stringman]

US, China, Korea, Indonesia, Philippines, Timbuktu........................ it really doesn't matter as long as you can make that guitar work for your hands and vice versa.

2 types of buyers, the musician and the collector. For the collector, you don't even have the right to dictate to the musician what good gear is. Why? Even the most expensive gear can sound soooooo cheap if the wrong hands are playing it.

[hollowtech]

I guess that's one thing something MIC really doesn't have compared to higher end stuff - resale value.

It's an important consideration especially if you're the kind of gear buyer that buys and sells gear to afford/ease the next purchase. And I don't get how people say that they don't care about resale value because they buy to play. In rougher times, it will really mean a lot. (And since gas never really goes away.. you never know when you would be willing to sell that piece of gear for another one.) It's practical and prudent to think about resale value. Sure, it shouldn't stop one from buying something that is really great/appropriate but it should be a consideration. With pedals, stuff from china really get low used prices, kahit binili mo pa siya na bnew (in that case, you only get 20-40% back). With higher end stuff, you barely lose, if any, cash.

i agree, china-made products have lower resale value. but with higher end stuff barely losing value, i don't agree completely. people nowadays are more informed than ever because of the internet. they tend to compare prices before buying.  these items have to depreciate at some point. it's no wonder why some items take a long while for somebody to grab from the pm classifieds (until they are repriced) because used items are priced the same or even higher than brand new ones. a vintage item is another story.
personally, i would not care about an item's origin as long as it sounds good to me. and honestly i won't think too much about resale value that i would be prevented from buying something i like. i hear it a lot about gears being investments. well, i respect these people's views. but as for real investment, i would take my money somewhere else...
peace.

[burnsbhm]

okay....   so for a working musician with 5 kids and ALL the bills he/she needs to pay(500 pesos a night talent fee), China made guitar is not acceptable???

According to Alex almost all showbands have bad sound. He even blamed the death of NU to the showbands that have bad live sound according to his standards.

I already asked that to Alex, he never answered it. I guess to him, we working musicians have no right to make a living playing music because we don't have Diezels and Yarrons in live performances.

Come to think of it, almost all professional musicians here and abroad cannot really afford boutique equipment. Even major recording musicians a lot of them rent instruments when playing live and keep their high end gear only for recordings. Nathan East records with a Fodera but tours with a Yamaha. Darrell Abbott plays his custom Dean in the Studio but live he plays his Washburn and standard mass produced Darrell guitars by Dean.

Point is, if boutique and custom instruments or at least equipment that you can already buy a car with is the only standard we should aim, then our music industry in all its facets will die.

Again, as of late, no one have ever criticised me for having bad sound in gigs. That means though I have average equipment, I was able to sustain my career for 17 years. And even if I have that much disposable income, I still would not buy a Baker or a Yarron or a Custom Shop AC30 or an original 59 Les Paul. I'd rather invest that money on my child's education and wedding plans - which is a more noble investment rather than a Yarron. If still I have more disposable income, I'd rather give it to missions and sponsor things for a worthy cause.

I am more concerned with how my money can help me store up riches in heaven. Having a Yarron isn't definitley one of them.

And this concerns me.....why is it that 80% percent of the clientele of super high end and custom shop instruments are not professional working musicians but collectors, lawyers, politicians, doctors AND CORKSNIFFERS?