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Author Topic: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?  (Read 38366 times)

Offline narmario17

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #275 on: January 31, 2013, 03:05:18 PM »
???

kamusta ba ang frequency response nung dalawang treble filter topologies na ginamit sa crunchbox?



Actually, active treble filter/low-pass filters ung ginamit. Mas ok na kasi mas malaki yung range ng freq. response kaysa kapag passive lang ang ginamit (active LPF uses OP-AMPS. Passive only uses RC circuits). Sabi nila, medyo muddy na daw ang tunong kapag mataas na yung level nung gain (though naayos naman daw pero dapat naka-todo yung tone knob). Nilagyan ng trim pot na cascaded sa volume pot yung v2 ng crunchbox para mas maging silent at controllable yung tunog. Tsaka pinalitan nila yung ibang components for higher audio quality. Marami namang mas natuwa dun sa version 2 kaysa dun sa v1.  :-D
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Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #276 on: January 31, 2013, 03:20:30 PM »
sa pagkakatanda ko V1 yan. note R8 and R9; those were replaced by a 20K (or 25K ba?) trimmer. what it tells me is that the trimmer inside and the 10K tone control pot both simply filter the high end mostly. in hindsight, parang redundant ang pagkakaroon ng 2 treble filters (or LPFs) despite having different shunting capacitors to cut treble.

IMVHO if MI audio wanted to give the CBox better range, add a low end control siguro. or stack an active Baxandall. or a passive James.

fo the record, tis ok to sell DIY clones, circuit-wise and parts-wise. for a basic stompbox, circuits cannot be patented anyway.

Offline Wampler Pedals

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #277 on: January 31, 2013, 05:11:01 PM »
fo the record, tis ok to sell DIY clones, circuit-wise and parts-wise. for a basic stompbox, circuits cannot be patented anyway.

I guess morally, if you are talking about an current product, we will have to disagree. Just because something is legal does not make it right morally. But, if you can sleep at night I suppose that's all that matters.

Offline pie-key

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #278 on: January 31, 2013, 06:54:01 PM »
I guess morally, if you are talking about an current product, we will have to disagree. Just because something is legal does not make it right morally. But, if you can sleep at night I suppose that's all that matters.

+1
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Offline ubersam

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #279 on: February 01, 2013, 04:39:07 AM »
For me, yung paggawa ng clones and re-selling them, against talaga sa batas.
Not exactly. It becomes unlawful when you try to pass off your clone as the original because then you will be stepping into fraud territory.

+1! Still give credit to the original innovators. Wag ipagyabang na IKAW talaga ang gumawa ng lahat. Haha.

+2! Asar ako sa mga "booteekers" na ang dating e original circuits daw e kopya lang pala, kinopya sa runoffgroove, diystompboxes, freestompboxes, etc. Maski yung pcb layout kopya lang sa tonepad o general guitar gadgets, etc. Tapos pag nabuko instead na umamin e magdadahilan pa, kesyo pareho nga daw ang schematic/layout pero iba naman ang tunog :-o [ubo ubo]JHS Pedals[/ubo ubo]


Offline nickson

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #280 on: February 01, 2013, 05:45:17 AM »
+2! Asar ako sa mga "booteekers" na ang dating e original circuits daw e kopya lang pala, kinopya sa runoffgroove, diystompboxes, freestompboxes, etc. Maski yung pcb layout kopya lang sa tonepad o general guitar gadgets, etc. Tapos pag nabuko instead na umamin e magdadahilan pa, kesyo pareho nga daw ang schematic/layout pero iba naman ang tunog :-o [ubo ubo]JHS Pedals[/ubo ubo]

 :lol:
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Offline Bolt Thrower

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #281 on: February 01, 2013, 06:12:07 AM »
Eh yung ApaX pedals?

Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #282 on: February 01, 2013, 08:15:17 AM »
Eh yung ApaX pedals?

tweaked tonepad layouts? lol

Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #283 on: February 01, 2013, 08:22:43 AM »
I guess morally, if you are talking about an current product, we will have to disagree. Just because something is legal does not make it right morally. But, if you can sleep at night I suppose that's all that matters.

in general, to me it's ok. it's only a matter of ethics and conscience if one wanted to copy an existing circuit and make a profit out of it.

but for old and discontinued pedals, i guess copying is a "saving grace", on the part of end users. our moral threshold may be or may not be the same, but we can agree that copying and passing them off as their own - without due credit whatsoever - is never acceptable.

EDIT: to add, the reason many opt not to disclose what the circuit is is to avoid using the original pedal as marketing push to sell. you have first-hand experience of this and i believe it is not cloning that you were against entirely, but the actual use by another pedal builder of your company's name in pushing his sales. also, personally i believe too that copying a pedal and announcing that it's another fuzz face already gives it a sort of unfair advantage since the builder is essentially riding on the FF's fame to sell. quite a dilemma actually. one could choose to tell what it is, and get instant sales due to the copied pedal's popularity, or make a copy but keep mum what it is and work his way up to sell. it's a really difficult choice to make.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 09:36:56 AM by Musikerochan »

Offline free2rock

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #284 on: February 01, 2013, 08:27:40 AM »
Not exactly. It becomes unlawful when you try to pass off your clone as the original because then you will be stepping into fraud territory.

+2! Asar ako sa mga "booteekers" na ang dating e original circuits daw e kopya lang pala, kinopya sa runoffgroove, diystompboxes, freestompboxes, etc. Maski yung pcb layout kopya lang sa tonepad o general guitar gadgets, etc. Tapos pag nabuko instead na umamin e magdadahilan pa, kesyo pareho nga daw ang schematic/layout pero iba naman ang tunog :-o [ubo ubo]JHS Pedals[/ubo ubo]

Nagkaroon pa ng time na may basbas daw ni Bill yung Klone nila noon. Hahaha! :lol:

tweaked tonepad layouts? lol

Talaga? Me gut shots na ba yun?
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Offline pie-key

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #285 on: February 01, 2013, 08:38:36 AM »
tweaked tonepad layouts? lol

Pathetic.  <_<
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Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #286 on: February 01, 2013, 08:59:49 AM »
Nagkaroon pa ng time na may basbas daw ni Bill yung Klone nila noon. Hahaha! :lol:

Talaga? Me gut shots na ba yun?

dun sa page nila may gutshots.

Offline Wampler Pedals

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #287 on: February 01, 2013, 05:17:47 PM »

The issue that bites me, and others in the industry is when you see DIY builders, who have got hold of a current pedal and have remade it "exactly" and are selling it as a cheaper alternative. We had that very same problem here last year.

If someone makes something that is based on a pedal, but have changed it and improved on it, then happy days - that's what pushes the industry forward. Just don't "pass off" an inferior product as the "same" for personal profit.

Offline Bolt Thrower

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #288 on: February 01, 2013, 06:02:22 PM »
tweaked tonepad layouts? lol

there are no tweaks. what you see in the tonepad site, they make it exactly like that. including the "prescribed parts"

Offline narmario17

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #289 on: February 01, 2013, 07:13:24 PM »
I guess morally, if you are talking about an current product, we will have to disagree. Just because something is legal does not make it right morally. But, if you can sleep at night I suppose that's all that matters.

fo the record, tis ok to sell DIY clones, circuit-wise and parts-wise. for a basic stompbox, circuits cannot be patented anyway.

+2! Hindi nga sya legally bawal, though kung sa morality, hindi talaga. pero ano pa nga bang aasahan natin na nasa 3rd world country tayo? Bukod pa dun sa mga NAGMAMA-GALING na kaya nilang mag-design ng mga sariling nilang pedals.   :-P

Eh yung ApaX pedals?

Paktay. nagkakaturuan na. hahaha. Pero in fairness po sa APAX, nakalagay sa description ng mga photos nung pedals kung saan "based" yung pedals nila. Hindi ko lang alam kung may dinagdag nga sila. Example nlang ung OD nila na based sa Ibanez Tubescreamer. Ginawa daw nilang dual (may switch for you to choose between the TS-808 or the TS-09 mode of the pedal). Eh may nakita na akong schem nun sa freestompboxes (yung component values lang naman nung RC filter na malapit sa output yung pinagkaiba nung dalawang models). Hindi ba parang mali naman na i-advertise mo syang ganun eh hindi naman talaga ikaw nag nagdagdag nun? <_<

+2! Asar ako sa mga "booteekers" na ang dating e original circuits daw e kopya lang pala, kinopya sa runoffgroove, diystompboxes, freestompboxes, etc. Maski yung pcb layout kopya lang sa tonepad o general guitar gadgets, etc. Tapos pag nabuko instead na umamin e magdadahilan pa, kesyo pareho nga daw ang schematic/layout pero iba naman ang tunog :-o [ubo ubo]JHS Pedals[/ubo ubo]

 :lol:
"Hindi na beginner sa guitars. Pero beginner pa lang sa forums. Magiging kasing galing nyo din siguro"


Offline Wampler Pedals

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #290 on: February 01, 2013, 07:14:25 PM »
Sorry, didn't understand that at all.

Offline narmario17

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #291 on: February 01, 2013, 07:21:32 PM »
Sorry, didn't understand that at all.

I'm sorry sir! :)

What I said was:

Yeah. It's not illegal but morally wrong. But what can you expect from certain guys from a 3rd world country that are not willing to spend that amount of money to get the original pedals? Not to mention those BIGHEADS that want to boast about them having able to make their "OWN" pedals, but in reality, are clones.  <_<
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Offline Bolt Thrower

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #292 on: February 01, 2013, 07:24:13 PM »
I had someone here do me a Sansamp based pedal before but with a vast list of mods that I need (different gain structure, integrated delay and lead boost). And it was privately commissioned like all his other builds. If you have mods like that, that elevates the playing field since you are going beyond cloning but offering something that the original doesn't do. if you have developed the technology, that would be a start for you to build something better.

And I'm sure a lot of boutique pedal builders started that way---looking to offer something better than the other pedals in the market. 

but selling direct clones, without offering something that differentiates you from the original? that is ok for a free market but i would still go for the original since it has better value, resale value and warranties.

Offline Wampler Pedals

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #293 on: February 01, 2013, 07:26:50 PM »
I'm sorry sir! :)

What I said was:

Yeah. It's not illegal but morally wrong. But what can you expect from certain guys from a 3rd world country that are not willing to spend that amount of money to get the original pedals? Not to mention those BIGHEADS that want to boast about them having able to make their "OWN" pedals, but in reality, are clones.  <_<

Thank you, and you are 100% correct. :)

Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #294 on: February 04, 2013, 08:46:16 AM »
The issue that bites me, and others in the industry is when you see DIY builders, who have got hold of a current pedal and have remade it "exactly" and are selling it as a cheaper alternative. We had that very same problem here last year.

If someone makes something that is based on a pedal, but have changed it and improved on it, then happy days - that's what pushes the industry forward. Just don't "pass off" an inferior product as the "same" for personal profit.

agreed, man :-)

Offline Musikerochan

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #295 on: February 04, 2013, 09:04:01 AM »
? Not to mention those BIGHEADS that want to boast about them having able to make their "OWN" pedals, but in reality, are clones.  <_<

medyo malabo ito. it's not the cloning part that is the problem. it's cloning a pedal and selling it as an inferior copy, like what mr. wampler implied. actually, you cant escape doing clones. show me one that isnt, one that is currently in production and uses analog parts (wag DSP, like earthtonesaudio for example). more or less it's going to be a copy. adding switches doesnt make it less of a copy still. dito nalilito yung iba, lalo na ang mga users. sa mga DIYers ang pinagbabatayan siguro dito most importantly is effort put into building a pedal. not the actual building effort, but the processes bago pa man mabuo yung pedal, i.e. designing stages.

Offline turiguiliano

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Re: Is it OK to sell DIY clones?
« Reply #296 on: February 12, 2013, 02:54:56 AM »
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