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Author Topic: help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling  (Read 2667 times)

Offline toink

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« on: September 20, 2006, 10:17:22 AM »
i have a band rehearsal studio here in qc. magdadagdag p ako ng isa pang studio sa 2nd floor. the problem is, kahoy ung sahig. rinig n rinig ung sound galing sa baba. pinakanaiisip ko is gawing semento ung sahig, but i think that too expensive, and besides, im only renting this place. im also thinking of putting foam on the ceiling of my first floor to minimize the sound, pero maririnig prin un sa taas. so whats the best solution to my problem? and if indeed theres a way, how much would it cost me? the size of the room is 19ftx11ft. im rushing it now coz the equipments will arrive late october from the states.:) tnx very much!


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Offline KitC

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 01:02:40 PM »
toink,

Added mass is one way to prevent sound intrusion into the 2nd floor but since  putting in cement slab flooring is not an option, you might have to consider elevated flooring , double walls and ceiling bass traps. Simply using foam will only absorb some of the high frequencies but is woefully inadequate for absorbing bass, which is usually the problem when soundproofing.
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Offline TheHunter

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 04:28:43 PM »
Rockwool AFAIK is the best and cheapest option to for sound proofing. Search this forum you will find lots of tips http://talk.philmusic.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=18673&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=rockwool

By the way you have to check the sound leakage from your wall, doors (gap between door jamb), windows, and the also the electrical outlet/pin light.

If you have budget, you can ask professional help.  :wink:
Let your ears teach your fingers.  :wink:

Offline toink

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 05:16:55 PM »
sir sino po b nakaka alam ng number ni soundmaster? kasi pm n ako sa kanya ng email ko pero di nmn nya ako reply
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Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 06:24:06 PM »
Ganito dapat... Gawa ka ng bagong ceiling (yung kwarto sa baba) na suportado ng mga pamakuan sa baba ng existing ceiling. Yung bagong ceiling dapat ay 1" board o dalawang half-inch hardiflex siguro. Ang ispasyo sa gitna ng luma at bagong ceiling dapat ay 6" o mahigit tapos ipalaman ito ng makapal na fiberglass o mineral wool sa loob. Mga 10 decibels ang mababawasan na ingay sa paraan na ito.

Mahirap ang elevated o floating floor kasi magkakaron ng problema sa pinto at siguro sa saksakan ng kuryente.
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty


Offline soundmaster

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2006, 11:13:53 PM »
pls check your email

Rockwool is recommended for soundproofing.

Offline mikep

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2006, 01:18:29 AM »
Use of absorptive material like glass fiber or rockwool is not enough to give you the isolation you want.  What you need is a combination of mass,  absorption and/or diffusion.  First, you have to make sure that you use something massive to stop the sound, like gypsum, hardiflex or cement.  The thicker or more massive it is, the better.  This helps not only in stopping sound but in controlling LF energy as well.  Contruct a double faced wall all around.  To prevent resonance, put glasswool or rockwool in between (that's where it's used).  Caulk all possible areas where sound can flank or seep through.  Construct a new ceiling.  Again use glass fiber or rockwool inside the new ceiling to prevent resonances.  Make sure ceiling is hanging - no short circuit connections with the existing ceiling.  You have to use acoustical mounts or hangers for this.  Build a floating floor using neoprene mounts.  Have the walls sit on this flooring.  Tame the acoustics inside the room with absorption and diffusion (Glass fiber and rockwool can be used as absorbers here also).  As the space is rather small, you probably can use Hemholtz resonators as LF traps.  Put rubber gaskets on doors. If you can put sound locks as entraces, the better.

Kinda complicated?  Yes.  Not only that.  Soundproofing is an expensive exercise.  First, the proposed studios must be tied up in a contract for at least 5 years.  Sayang kasi.  You build, spend money and in a year's time your contract is up.  Second, there is really a dire need for the owners to go into this type of spending, i. e., they have projects they can recoup their investments from, and are dead serious about the entire thing (thought about it for a long period of time, in sleepless nights). Think about the expenses.

Now, the room.  The room will become smaller once you put all the soundproofing and acoustical treatment in.  Thus, the bigger the room, the better.  Walls and air gaps would take at least 8 inches all around.  Add 2 inches of absorbers, 4 inches of diffusers (8 inches is better), and what do you have?  A very cramped room.  Incidentally, for the sound to be properly propagated and the room to sound well, you need at least 1500 sq ft. of actual studio space, otherwise you will have lots of modal problems.  What about your air conditioning system?  Are you using a window type air con?  If you are, you do not need to sound proof because the window where you have placed the air conditioning system is typically open.  You have the option of using a split type.  Is the room to be used for recording as well?  Then, the air con system has to be pretty quiet, preferably a ducted system (more expensive).

What about your power supply?

My advice? Do not do things haphazardly.  Study your actions and your options well.  Do not listen to hearsay.  Read on it.  Get books, magazines, go over the internet and read everything about soundproofing, acoustics and the studio business.  But be very discriminating.  Not everything that is written in magazines and on the web is correct.  

You can also seek professional help.  There are acoustical professionals here in the Philippines.  But make sure you look into what they have done.  If you like what they've done and their ideas jive with those of yours, you have a team.  I have seen a lot of wastage in a lot of facilities around.  To correct them will be more expensive than to build a new one.  So, take it easy, take your time before making any decision.

Hope this helps.  Good luck in your venture.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline soundmaster

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2006, 12:37:38 PM »
We supply ROCKWOOL and FIBERGLASS, both are good in soundproofing
and Acoustics. They are also "FIRE RETARDANT" unlike foams and egg trays.

They are both very good for blocking and absorbing sounds.

We also supply Gypsum Boards and Fiber Cement Boards. "FIRE RETARDANT" also and much cheaper compared to plywoods and other kind of woods.

Also available, Metal studs and padded tapes

Just let us know if you need this materials and we will give you our best offer.

Thank you very much.

Soundmaster

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2006, 12:54:02 PM »
Quote from: mikep
Build a floating floor using neoprene mounts.  Have the walls sit on this flooring.  Tame the acoustics inside the room with absorption and diffusion (Glass fiber and rockwool can be used as absorbers here also).  As the space is rather small, you probably can use Hemholtz resonators as LF traps.  Put rubber gaskets on doors. If you can put sound locks as entraces, the better.

Yes, it is complicated. I hope the carpenter can follow instructions...
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline toink

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2006, 01:29:21 PM »
yes sir ill pm u asap:) tnx!


Quote from: soundmaster
We supply ROCKWOOL and FIBERGLASS, both are good in soundproofing
and Acoustics. They are also "FIRE RETARDANT" unlike foams and egg trays.

They are both very good for blocking and absorbing sounds.

We also supply Gypsum Boards and Fiber Cement Boards. "FIRE RETARDANT" also and much cheaper compared to plywoods and other kind of woods.

Also available, Metal studs and padded tapes

Just let us know if you need this materials and we will give you our best offer.

Thank you very much.

Soundmaster
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Offline toink

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2006, 01:33:46 PM »
Quote from: Tarkuz Toccata
Ganito dapat... Gawa ka ng bagong ceiling (yung kwarto sa baba) na suportado ng mga pamakuan sa baba ng existing ceiling. Yung bagong ceiling dapat ay 1" board o dalawang half-inch hardiflex siguro. Ang ispasyo sa gitna ng luma at bagong ceiling dapat ay 6" o mahigit tapos ipalaman ito ng makapal na fiberglass o mineral wool sa loob. Mga 10 decibels ang mababawasan na ingay sa paraan na ito.

Mahirap ang elevated o floating floor kasi magkakaron ng problema sa pinto at siguro sa saksakan ng kuryente.


sir pwede po bang instead na floating floor, sa ilalim sya ng sahig ilalagay, so ceiling n bali ng first floor. bali baligtad ung proseso:) kasi plan maglagay ng brace eh para tumibay ung sahig
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Offline mikep

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2006, 02:47:48 PM »
If you intend to do a room within a room, putting an isolated "flooring" under the ceiling? will not help.  Do the floating room in the floor below which you intend to use as another rehearsal room?  As I said, be very careful because it will entail money to do it.  

O, sige, just ask your questions.  I'll give you advice for FREE.  If you want to talk to me personally, TRACKSAcoustics, 6338710 or 09189100304.

Mike N. Pedero
TRACKSAcoustics
www.tracks.com.ph
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline toink

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help on soundproofing the floor/ceiling
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2006, 12:57:01 AM »
uy tnx very much sir! :)
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