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Author Topic: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?  (Read 18085 times)

Offline grasyaps

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http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=234353.100

must we allow this?arent we somehow encouraging it if we let it?

selling fake gibsons and ibanez, classifying them as class A.

ive nothing against copies,with different brands.

i know the buyers would know that these are counterfeits so no one is being mislead. but i feel these stuff doesnt belong here.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 02:06:07 PM by grasyaps »


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Offline KitC

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 09:10:44 AM »
Can you point out those threads? Technically, one can sell a copy if it is properly identified and priced accordingly, but to blatantly sell a fake as class A is more than misleading. This is almost criminal behavior, in my opinion.

Can you post links to the items plus proof that they are fakes?
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Offline grasyaps

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 01:36:45 PM »
http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=234353.0

he is selling an Ibanez PGM for P13K a Gibson LP Standard and a Gibson LPC each for P17K labeling them as 'Class A'.

and although the buyer is supposed to know that these are fakes, having the Gibson and Ibanez logo while not really being manufactured by those companies may not be misleading but belong to Greenhills shopping center among the fake Class-A shoes sold in the flea market.
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Offline skin

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 06:18:41 PM »
Presently fake Nokia's pa lang ang bawal.  This should be updated.
http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=77894.0

Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 06:27:27 PM »
Quote
Technically, one can sell a copy if it is properly identified and priced accordingly, but to blatantly sell a fake as class A is more than misleading.



I heard before that the seller claimed that the guitars he was selling were authentic. And that some of his customers were actually unsatisfied. Soon after he was 'exposed', he then claimed them as 'class A'. Not sure if this happened here or on another site.
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Offline grasyaps

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 02:01:06 AM »
i dont wanna ruin his business. but that business doesnt belong here.
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Offline Santo Muerte

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 04:46:16 AM »
Well, at least pinapaalam na counterfeit. Ngayon kung alam mo nang peke at bibilhin mo pa ibang usapan na yan.

Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 05:15:08 AM »
Presently fake Nokia's pa lang ang bawal.  This should be updated.
http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=77894.0

post appended. thanks for pointing this out. as for the ones blatantly selling knockoffs as originals or as class A items, a warning or sanction should be appropriate in my opinion. :cool:

Offline KitC

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 08:53:24 AM »
I have locked the thread in question.

Now, let's ALL discuss.
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Offline jefisipbata

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 09:07:40 AM »
personally, i think we should not allow these kind of stuff to be sold here. kung yung headstock ng LP eh ibang brand ang nakalagay, pwede pero kung Gibson mismo parang di dapat. kahit pa may "class A" sa description, malay ba ng mga baguhang buyer kung ano impact ng "class A" sa bibilhin nila.

Offline grasyaps

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 02:46:30 PM »
i wont go the lengths of reporting them to gibson, as if gibson will storm the Philippines to crack down on this.

just not here in philmusic.

i pity those guitars with replaced decals, specially those Tokais. there are some on the forum which im really interested with but after seeing they have been 'fenderized', na tuturn off ako. i mean OK lang if they are for personal consumption, but once you sell them, its contraband afaic.
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Offline jefisipbata

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2012, 02:04:06 PM »
I have locked the thread in question.

Now, let's ALL discuss.

how about this sir

http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=265483.0;topicseen


Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2012, 02:17:35 PM »
how about this sir

http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=265483.0;topicseen

Para sakin, okay lang to. Pero pag commercial selling na fakies, yun dapat ang hindi pwede. Pano pag may naghahanap ng Philmusician na fake/copy/knockoff for his personal use? I know meron naman sa ibang site, but still..
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Offline jefisipbata

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2012, 02:24:14 PM »
Para sakin, okay lang to. Pero pag commercial selling na fakies, yun dapat ang hindi pwede. Pano pag may naghahanap ng Philmusician na fake/copy/knockoff for his personal use? I know meron naman sa ibang site, but still..

i still don't get the "class A" thing. it's either legit, copy (same shape/features diff name on the headstock) or a fake one.

tsaka yun nga, it's the thing that differentiates Philmusic from other sites, they don't allow piracy here, so let's not confine it to protecting the artists making music, isama na din sana yung mga manufacturers na sumusuporta din naman sa mga artist. it's either we ban piracy across the board or permit it, no gray area.

Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 02:32:12 PM »
i still don't get the "class A" thing. it's either legit, copy (same shape/features diff name on the headstock) or a fake one.

tsaka yun nga, it's the thing that differentiates Philmusic from other sites, they don't allow piracy here, so let's not confine it to protecting the artists making music, isama na din sana yung mga manufacturers na sumusuporta din naman sa mga artist. it's either we ban piracy across the board or permit it, no gray area.

Point taken. I'm with you.
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Offline grasyaps

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2012, 02:46:04 PM »
Para sakin, okay lang to. Pero pag commercial selling na fakies, yun dapat ang hindi pwede. Pano pag may naghahanap ng Philmusician na fake/copy/knockoff for his personal use? I know meron naman sa ibang site, but still..

kung ng hahanap sha, pwede shang mag post siguro ng LF: strat/LP/jem copy. PM me.

but on the other hand, peddling counterfeit items is a NO-NO. its different if someone was selling an exact replica without the logo. kahit sabihin pa natin 'decal' lang yun. nung nilagyan mong decal ung guitara mo na hindi naman un ung tlgang brand nun, that is for your personal consumption. kapag binenta mo na yun, whether or not alam ng buyer na kung orig man o hindi, the thought behind why that decal was placed there to begin with is the one put in question: bakit mo ilalagay ung Fender dun, ndi bat para mag mukhang Fender?

so having established that, you are indirectly selling a guitar that was intended to look like a Fender.

nonetheless, you still have the right to sell that, if may mutual agreement ka with your buyer. however, i feel not here.

tama si jefisipbata. ipatupad across the board. i guess marerealize natin to kapag ung kantang ginawa natin kinakanta ng iba and they are taking credit from it. mapait :P
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Online inigo

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2012, 05:38:39 PM »
Fine line between fakes and re-decaled guitars. Re-decaled guitars have been OK if the seller declares them as re-decaled. Would fakes be ok if they're declared as fakes?

Or are we just talking about commercial items (i.e., stores) vs personal items?

I think pag personal item, ok lang. Pag commercial/store, hindi....including the buy-and-sell guys.
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Offline Gunslinger

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2012, 07:41:16 PM »
kung ng hahanap sha, pwede shang mag post siguro ng LF: strat/LP/jem copy. PM me.

But still different kung makikita muna ni buyer yung ad, then decides on purchasing the item. Parang GAS. Example ako, di naman ako nagagas sa kahit anong particular item. Then nakakita ako sa ads ng say.. a Boss DS-1. Initially, wala akong intention bumili ng DS-1, but since nagas ako, may urge na akong bilin - kasi nakita ko at nagustuhan ko.

I think pag personal item, ok lang. Pag commercial/store, hindi....including the buy-and-sell guys.

My thoughts too. Not sure how this would be resolved. Kung 100% no fake items or may exceptions. Yun nga, pag personal item naman.

Pero ako, NO ako sa counterfeit items especially when they are sold commercially.
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Offline ianhisoka47

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 03:54:45 AM »
Class A is just a fancy word for Fake. There is no difference.

Offline grasyaps

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 01:05:04 PM »
Fine line between fakes and re-decaled guitars. Re-decaled guitars have been OK if the seller declares them as re-decaled. Would fakes be ok if they're declared as fakes?

Or are we just talking about commercial items (i.e., stores) vs personal items?

I think pag personal item, ok lang. Pag commercial/store, hindi....including the buy-and-sell guys.

i agree that there is a fine line. kaya nga what is the difference with a re-decaled and something made as-is, with the logo already there to begin with?

the only main difference is when it was put there. other than that, the intention is the same - to make it look like the real thing. what else?

you might say that when someone re-decals a guitar, it was his own preference. given. however, when he tries to sell it afterwards, the guitar already has the image/look it was intended to have when it was re-decaled. and that image projected comes into play in the sale.

any one you accuse of selling commercially here in PM can always say the items used to be for personal consumption only but need to sell due to the need in cash. there will always be a loophole in it, no matter what.

i do not mean to malign people who have sold or currently selling re-decaled guitars. my point is this: whether its a generic guitar with or without a brand prior to being re-decaled, selling an item with a brand name attached to it that doesnt belong there is a copyright infringement, whether or not the buyer knows it or not.
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Offline grasyaps

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 01:27:49 PM »
But still different kung makikita muna ni buyer yung ad, then decides on purchasing the item. Parang GAS.

and the point? on the contrary, youve brought up a very good point. if one post a guitar that looks and appears like a Fender, it induces GAS to a person that is after that. STILL, the BRAND LOGO has been utilized to create the sale. that is infringement parin dba?

My thoughts too. Not sure how this would be resolved. Kung 100% no fake items or may exceptions. Yun nga, pag personal item naman.

like you, ive got no beef against personal items. if you wanna decal your guitar DON JON, i wouldnt give a rats ass (but it would certainly baffle me :P). however, i think it ceases to be a personal item when it is put on SALE. you may not be selling it for the look but buyers are attracted because of the look it gives. and once again, the Brand/Logo which is owned by another company is being misused. therefore, infringement.

naisip ko lang na sulusyon is if someone wants to sell for example a Tokai strat re-decaled with Fender, then he can put it up as: FS: Tokai strat re-decaled. if he chooses to post photos, the headstock should be covered. if the buyer wants to see the headstock uncovered, then they can PM. anyway, they can send messages thru any means. so whether the show photos thru email, PM, YM, ICQ, then that is their business. I just think this is the only way people can go around it.

Now yung sa mga gadgets like phones/itouch copies, hindi naman sila originally different brand selling with a replaced logo. hindi dapat pinaguusapan yun. alam na agad. :D
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Online Drummeroo

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 07:11:46 PM »
i still don't get the "class A" thing. it's either legit, copy (same shape/features diff name on the headstock) or a fake one.

tsaka yun nga, it's the thing that differentiates Philmusic from other sites, they don't allow piracy here, so let's not confine it to protecting the artists making music, isama na din sana yung mga manufacturers na sumusuporta din naman sa mga artist. it's either we ban piracy across the board or permit it, no gray area.

+1k.
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Offline Garner

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2012, 12:20:55 PM »
i still don't get the "class A" thing. it's either legit, copy (same shape/features diff name on the headstock) or a fake one.

tsaka yun nga, it's the thing that differentiates Philmusic from other sites, they don't allow piracy here, so let's not confine it to protecting the artists making music, isama na din sana yung mga manufacturers na sumusuporta din naman sa mga artist. it's either we ban piracy across the board or permit it, no gray area.

I Agree, naisip ko lang kunwari someone made a Boss SD1 clone and he named it "Garner" for personal use, okay lang and even if he sell it as a "Boss SD1 clone", okay pa din but if you put BOSS on it and it almost looks the original, even if you declare it as a "clone", IMHO hindi maganda.

Siguro for personal use okay lang pero once you sell it, even if you declare it as a clone or fake, better sell it on www.sulit.com
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 12:22:54 PM by Garner »
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Offline horge

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2012, 12:29:43 PM »
The minute someone you apply someone else's trademark to merchandise,
WITHOUT the trademark owner's consent, you've created a fake.

If selling fakes on GC is to be banned, we have to be clear on the above principle:
as clear as the law on trademarks already is.

Offline haaao

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifed?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2012, 01:07:01 PM »
I'm new to buying guitars, if it was me I wouldn't have known if it's a fake or not. Can someone please give me some "tips" when looking for a fake or original guitar?