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Author Topic: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?  (Read 18096 times)

Offline rtf_axeman

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2012, 02:31:52 AM »
para saakin, kailangan lang ma eliminate is yung posibility na its a "scam" . brandiing your locally made guitar as "fender" then selling it as a "fender" is a big NO. pangloloko yun. pero if the seller indicates "strat copy made by local luthier max rufo w/ fender decal for sale", (example lang) pretty straight forward, siguro ok lang? siguro ung dapat ding i regulate is using "sugar coated words" like "custom" or "class a", dapat ilagay sa add na "COPY" or "locally made" if dito ginawa.

the thing is unfair din siguro sa forumer na gusto lang ibenta ung gear kasi kailangan ng pera or may GAS, everyone is entitled to GAS!!! hehe

lts admit, there is a market for these items.

parang nangyayari kasi eh "BAWALA ANG HINDI ORIGINAL NA BRANDED"

what do you guys think?

Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2012, 05:08:32 AM »
para saakin, kailangan lang ma eliminate is yung posibility na its a "scam" . brandiing your locally made guitar as "fender" then selling it as a "fender" is a big NO. pangloloko yun. pero if the seller indicates "strat copy made by local luthier max rufo w/ fender decal for sale", (example lang) pretty straight forward, siguro ok lang? siguro ung dapat ding i regulate is using "sugar coated words" like "custom" or "class a", dapat ilagay sa add na "COPY" or "locally made" if dito ginawa.

the thing is unfair din siguro sa forumer na gusto lang ibenta ung gear kasi kailangan ng pera or may GAS, everyone is entitled to GAS!!! hehe

lts admit, there is a market for these items.

parang nangyayari kasi eh "BAWALA ANG HINDI ORIGINAL NA BRANDED"

what do you guys think?

the term "copy" or "custom" is too broad and general for that matter to be used when branding items for sale IMO. this is often where the gray area comes in. We could perhaps allow tailor-made stuff as long as it doesn't misrepresent a product or brand.

Let's set things straight:

*Counterfeits, Redecaled, Replicas, "Class A" items and the likes are not allowed.
*Tailor-made items are allowed as long as it's not re-decaled since it's a misrepresentation of the brand name. one can sell a guitar copied from a certain model as long as you keep it either "unbranded" or "customized".
*For people looking at buying or selling these kinds of items; as I mentioned, other sites allow or often cater to these. We won't allow people to post links to other sites as a workaround.

let's keep the ideas flowing guys! we need everybody's opinions and a deliberated-upon agreement so we could iron things out and implement things for the better. again, your opinions matter. Thanks! :mrgreen:

Offline boxxed

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2012, 09:24:25 AM »
So would the decal makers be also hit by this policy since they are in theory using copyrighted logos and encouraging the
use of such items?
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!

Offline rtf_axeman

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2012, 11:09:35 AM »
So would the decal makers be also hit by this policy since they are in theory using copyrighted logos and encouraging the
use of such items?


good question, selling a re-decaled guitar is bad, what about the actual decals that are being sold?

id like to know who makes custom decals though, id like to re-decal my jackson to "chuckson" lol  :lol:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 12:13:43 PM by rtf_axeman »

Offline TheTriptico

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2012, 12:09:40 PM »
mods,

Question: How about classical guitars like the ones made by US-Based luthier Darren Hippner.
he does make copies of guitars made by the old world masters like Hauser, Fleta and others
labelled as i.e (Darren Hippner "Hauser") what is your stand on this? pls bear in mind that the chances of getting a top of the line classical guitar with the brand/maker name decaled on to the headstock is slim to none. With that being said, most if not all of them would put their name/brand inside the guitar's body (on the inside part of the back piece directly visible from the sound hole)
therefore making it it very easy to print/or fabricate a fake "Hermann Hauser" insert and make a Darren Hippner "Hauser" copy into a Fake Hauser. how would you stand up to this?

O.T in the classical guitar circle we consider these guitars By Hippner and many others as "hommage" guitars not fakes. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 12:30:53 PM by TheTriptico »
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Offline rtf_axeman

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2012, 12:19:09 PM »
Question: How about classical guitars like the ones made by US-Based luthier Darren Hippner.
he does make copies of guitars made by the old world masters like Huaser, Fleta and others
labelled as i.e (Darren Hippner "Hauser") what is your stand on this? pls bear in mind that the chances of getting a top of the line classical guitar with the brand/maker name decaled on to the headstock is slim to non. With that being said, most if not all of them would put their name/brand inside the guitar's body (on the inside part of the back piece directly visible from the sound hole)
therefore making it it very easy to print/or fabricate a fake "Hermann Hauser" insert and make a Darren Hippner "Hauser" copy into a Fake Hauser. how would you stand up to this?

O.T in the classical guitar circle we consider these guitars By Hippner and many others as "hommage" guitars not fakes. 


the dude's got a point, out of curiosity, do we have anyone whose selling a Darren Hippner classical Guitar in the classified section? tried looking for one, puro MIJ's nakita ko.

Offline Chow23

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2012, 02:50:29 PM »
sa tinging ko, kung natatakot ang philmusic site about the ever-rising of this so called "CLASS A" and "COPY" products,,,, eh,,,,
wala naman dapat ikatakot ang philmusic site about copyright policy, kasi @ the end of every transaction, its the buyer and seller who is going to do the talking and paying, so hayaan nating ang both parties who made the transaction to be responsible and and liable about their said transaction,,, tama yung isang forumer - rtf_axeman "BAWAL ANG HINDI ORIGINAL NA BRANDED"
di nga? may original pa ba sa panahon ngayon,,, baka bilang na lang sa daliri, baka yang pinagmamalaki mong gitara ngayon eh peke pala or somehow been manufactured by another party that has been "rented"/"paid" by the MANUFACTURER of your guitar para sila mismo makatipid,,,
example ulit, ipod, its a US product, but assembled in china, will we consider it as fake? guess not, bec. even apple admits that labor is coslty @ their own land, thus making some cost-cutting

now, alam naman nating ang pinaguusapan dito is guitars and other musical instruments,,,,
this is my suggestion: why dont we post a warning like what we see sa mga shows, it goes something like this: "The opinions, comments and/or suggestions expressed here are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, comments and/or suggestions expressed by the show"
one more example (sa mga restaurant naman): "Do not leave your valuables unattended for the restaurant will not hold the responsibility for your lost" ,,,, tapos,,,, " BEWARE of THIEVES"

BTW: sulit.com is also using that kind of warning

i know that our mods are very smart enough to read between the lines of these examples and somehow re-phrase it or "DECALED" it (hehehe) for the benefit of the site and most especially,,, for the the forumers/sellers/buyers,,, kasi kung wala kami, wala po kayong minomodorate na site and for sure kapag napatupad ang  "BAWAL ANG HINDI ORIGINAL NA BRANDED" policy, mas magiging madali ang work niyo mga sir, if you know what i mean, i have the highest respect w/ you mga sir so dont get me wrong,,, RESPECT, GOD BLESS!!!

grabe, ngayon lang ako naging ganito ka-hook sa isang thread/topic
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 03:15:27 PM by Chow23 »
JESUS is the ROCK ON which i STAND!!!
References: daryl21, bossingboss, mahavishnu, thecrow23, alek01, mimi_dada, arkin zion, Muzickero, Alalala, numeroh_unoh, demoboi, daniel_lee, ebakoids, vic_6, zer0co0l,garethvpureenergy, sprkplg...

Offline smartassplayingdumb

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2012, 07:44:50 PM »
the term "copy" or "custom" is too broad and general for that matter to be used when branding items for sale IMO. this is often where the gray area comes in. We could perhaps allow tailor-made stuff as long as it doesn't misrepresent a product or brand.

Let's set things straight:

*Counterfeits, Redecaled, Replicas, "Class A" items and the likes are not allowed.
*Tailor-made items are allowed as long as it's not re-decaled since it's a misrepresentation of the brand name. one can sell a guitar copied from a certain model as long as you keep it either "unbranded" or "customized".
*For people looking at buying or selling these kinds of items; as I mentioned, other sites allow or often cater to these. We won't allow people to post links to other sites as a workaround.

let's keep the ideas flowing guys! we need everybody's opinions and a deliberated-upon agreement so we could iron things out and implement things for the better. again, your opinions matter. Thanks! :mrgreen:

If that's the case, my custom-made PRS 22 doesn't actually have a "PRS" decal. It's Park S.H., or Song Hee (or something like that, can't remember to be honest), so I'm not in breach of any PM rules.

http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=244661.0

Really need to sell within the next couple of weeks so would appreciate a prompt unlock. Thanks.

Online siore

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2012, 10:38:59 AM »
Can of worms now open.
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Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2012, 04:06:58 PM »
So would the decal makers be also hit by this policy since they are in theory using copyrighted logos and encouraging the
use of such items?


good question, selling a re-decaled guitar is bad, what about the actual decals that are being sold?

id like to know who makes custom decals though, id like to re-decal my jackson to "chuckson" lol  :lol:

yes. it's a clear form of piracy; the matter lies whether you support it or not. by attaching a decal of a certain brand to the gear that you're selling, that's clearly a "misinterpretation"  of an item being sold.

mods,

Question: How about classical guitars like the ones made by US-Based luthier Darren Hippner.
he does make copies of guitars made by the old world masters like Hauser, Fleta and others
labelled as i.e (Darren Hippner "Hauser") what is your stand on this? pls bear in mind that the chances of getting a top of the line classical guitar with the brand/maker name decaled on to the headstock is slim to none. With that being said, most if not all of them would put their name/brand inside the guitar's body (on the inside part of the back piece directly visible from the sound hole)
therefore making it it very easy to print/or fabricate a fake "Hermann Hauser" insert and make a Darren Hippner "Hauser" copy into a Fake Hauser. how would you stand up to this?

the dude's got a point, out of curiosity, do we have anyone whose selling a Darren Hippner classical Guitar in the classified section? tried looking for one, puro MIJ's nakita ko.

If someone deliberately affixed a "Hermann Hauser" insert to a Darren Hippner "Hauser" copy, then that's clearly a misrepresentation of an item.

O.T in the classical guitar circle we consider these guitars By Hippner and many others as "hommage" guitars not fakes.

the term "copy" is too broad and general IMO. if such are considered as "homage" guitars then so be it. again, like what I mentioned with custom made guitars, it should be either "unbranded" or "customized" - which I believe would fall under this clause in general.

sa tinging ko, kung natatakot ang philmusic site about the ever-rising of this so called "CLASS A" and "COPY" products,,,, eh,,,,
wala naman dapat ikatakot ang philmusic site about copyright policy, kasi @ the end of every transaction, its the buyer and seller who is going to do the talking and paying, so hayaan nating ang both parties who made the transaction to be responsible and and liable about their said transaction,,, tama yung isang forumer - rtf_axeman "BAWAL ANG HINDI ORIGINAL NA BRANDED"
di nga? may original pa ba sa panahon ngayon,,, baka bilang na lang sa daliri, baka yang pinagmamalaki mong gitara ngayon eh peke pala or somehow been manufactured by another party that has been "rented"/"paid" by the MANUFACTURER of your guitar para sila mismo makatipid,,,
example ulit, ipod, its a US product, but assembled in china, will we consider it as fake? guess not, bec. even apple admits that labor is coslty @ their own land, thus making some cost-cutting

now, alam naman nating ang pinaguusapan dito is guitars and other musical instruments,,,,
this is my suggestion: why dont we post a warning like what we see sa mga shows, it goes something like this: "The opinions, comments and/or suggestions expressed here are those of the host and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, comments and/or suggestions expressed by the show"
one more example (sa mga restaurant naman): "Do not leave your valuables unattended for the restaurant will not hold the responsibility for your lost" ,,,, tapos,,,, " BEWARE of THIEVES"

BTW: sulit.com is also using that kind of warning

i know that our mods are very smart enough to read between the lines of these examples and somehow re-phrase it or "DECALED" it (hehehe) for the benefit of the site and most especially,,, for the the forumers/sellers/buyers,,, kasi kung wala kami, wala po kayong minomodorate na site and for sure kapag napatupad ang  "BAWAL ANG HINDI ORIGINAL NA BRANDED" policy, mas magiging madali ang work niyo mga sir, if you know what i mean, i have the highest respect w/ you mga sir so dont get me wrong,,, RESPECT, GOD BLESS!!!

grabe, ngayon lang ako naging ganito ka-hook sa isang thread/topic

The actions of the members reflect the reputation of the site. PM is involved no matter what since the transactions originated here. Say for example somebody asks, "where did you buy that Class A gear?", one may reply in general "sa nakilala ko sa philmusic.com" or "sa taga-philmusic.com" instead of "kay riff_6603" etc. PM originated and flourished even before the classifieds came to be, we'll settle anytime for quality vs quantity anytime dear sir. :-D

If that's the case, my custom-made PRS 22 doesn't actually have a "PRS" decal. It's Park S.H., or Song Hee (or something like that, can't remember to be honest), so I'm not in breach of any PM rules.

http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=244661.0

Really need to sell within the next couple of weeks so would appreciate a prompt unlock. Thanks.

was it clarified in the first place? I understand the part that it was custom made, the reason why it was locked perhaps was the "PRS" tag IMO. now that it has been clarified then consider the thread unlocked. our apologies for the misunderstanding.

Can of worms now open.

We are more than willing to discuss matters down to the minutest details. it's the only way we could implement something with everybody's cooperation involved. again guys, your opinions matter. thanks!

Offline smartassplayingdumb

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2012, 07:10:40 PM »
Thanks a bunch. To offer my two cents: although I think that a rigid set of rules may take some time to get perfect, it's great that this kind of movement is being implemented.

Offline TheTriptico

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2012, 04:20:09 AM »
Thanks a bunch. To offer my two cents: although I think that a rigid set of rules may take some time to get perfect, it's great that this kind of movement is being implemented.
I agree, I strongly believe, that if rules are to be implemented, there should be no holes in it.
I love The Extra X!!!

Offline toybitz

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2012, 07:31:36 PM »
I was a victim of a Fernandes Strat with a Fender decal.

It was really hard to tell at first, because the strat was old and so was the decal that became part of the headstock.

The same day I took the strat home, I opened and found the cavity unusual for a Fender.  Texted Micsis who told me he did some service to the guitar and said he found the neck fishy.  Brought the guitar to kuya Arie...who said the guitar wasn't Fender.

The strat was previously sold here in PM, buyer sold it through Sulit.

It was a good thing I got the guitar from an honest member...Upfront who immediately got the strat back.  I pity him though because he never knew, he shelled out items to meet the price of the previous owner who claimed he bought the strat in Japan.

SO "NO" to items, even with descriptions of re-decalled...because outside Philmusic, the guitar can be sold or passed on as authentic.

so sqiuer with Fender decals or greco LPs with Gibson's..etc...NO NO NO.
Tele bought 20K. Upgraded pots.  FS: 30K  Trade Value BS: 85K.  Deal tayo?

Offline boxxed

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2012, 09:11:49 PM »
yes. it's a clear form of piracy; the matter lies whether you support it or not. by attaching a decal of a certain brand to the gear that you're selling, that's clearly a "misinterpretation"  of an item being sold.

I think the decal itself is a misrepresentation since Fender does offer that service of replacing a worn out decal with a genuine one.
BTW, I am not against anyone selling these stuff. My concern is for the fair and equal implementation of the recent rules across
all musical instruments and accessories.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 09:13:08 PM by boxxed »
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!

Offline KitC

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2012, 08:56:35 AM »
My concern is for the fair and equal implementation of the recent rules across
all musical instruments and accessories.

Your concern is justified, but the mods can't go at it alone. We will need all forumers assistance in this self-policing action.
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Offline skin

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2012, 11:45:53 AM »
http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=77894.0

Let's base it from Jim's posting.  Let's not allow it.  There are a lot of sites that they can put this.

Offline teleclem

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2012, 10:16:53 PM »
in my most honest opinion, ok lang na magbenta ng "CLASS A" here, as long as ipaalam na agad sa mga potential buyer that what they are selling are "CLASS A", discretion na ng consumer kung bibilin niya yung product or just snob on it,,, haayan natin ang buyer at ang seller ang magkasundo sa anumang pwedeng mangyari sa transaction nila,,,,

,,, the main issue here is "acceptance" .....

sa panahon ngayon, aminin man natin o sa hindi, halos lahat ng product na ginagamit natin is made in china! (in other words, CLASS A, B,C, OEM, COPY, semi-orig, semi-fake or simply fake!!! what ever you want to to call it!) - no offense w/ china pips - sige sa inyo na spratlys/Scarborough Shoal, hehehehe!

sabi nga ng isang famous journalist, "kung gusto mong bumili ng made in usa product, bumili ka sa usa, pero kung gusto mong bumili ng made in china products, kahit saan ka lumingon meron, kahit sa U.S.!,,,, minsan di ko alam kung tayo ay nagagalit dahil meron mga fakes na nagbebenta, or dahil lang sa meron nakabili ng gadget or gitara na halos kaparehas ng sa iyo, pero sa ubod ng baba na halaga!, kulang na lang di ka kumain para lang mabili mo yung dream guitar mo, tapos meron biglang halos kaparehas ng sayo, but the price is way so low!,,, nanghihinayang, naasar,,, mixed emotions,,,? ikaw lang ang makapag-decide kung ano ang feeling mo,,,,
pero isa lang ang sigurado, hangat may mga taong gusto maka-expirience kung ano man ang meron kang "expenisve stuffs" but at the same time gustong makatipid,,, CLASS A's/ FAKES will always be there!

trivia: halos 95% ng ipod products na meron tayo (kung meron man) is guess what? made/(assembled?) in china! in other words, "semi-fake?!!!" haaayyyy,,, either embrace the fact,,,, or just LOVE it!

another trivia: bago maging squire ang squire, at epiphone ang epiphone, minsan din silang tinawag na fender tele. copy at gibson LP copy guitars,,,, ginawa, to give way for less expensive guitars,,, oh, then there was "simulation pedals" copying the sounds/tone of another jaw-dropping pricey pedal,,,, and lots more,,,, THE END! GOD BLESS everyone!

"Made in China" is different from "fake". It doesn't matter where it's made - a fake is a fake.

***

IMO, this (the selling of counterfeit items) shouldn't be allowed here. Think about the people that will waste their hard-earned money (I know.. Caveat Emptor and all - pero tulungan na rin natin yung mga less savvy members). Think about the culture/attitude it promotes. It's the kind of thing that I don't want Philmusic to be associated with, especially given the site's status as the best place to buy gear locally. Let's not water the image/reputation down with these kinds of sellers.

Kung may gusto naman bumili ng peke talaga, pwede naman siya makahanap nang madali elsewhere. No need to accomodate them, imo.


Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2012, 11:00:27 PM »
I think the decal itself is a misrepresentation since Fender does offer that service of replacing a worn out decal with a genuine one.

Fender has all the right to sell decals to replace worn out ones. the problem here would be how an individual would use it. if one would be using it for a genuine fender, then it's fair by all means. but using it to redecal a non-fender guitar, then that's where product misrepresentation comes in.

"Made in China" is different from "fake". It doesn't matter where it's made - a fake is a fake.

Indeed. a fake is a fake whether it's made in china, chinatown or anywhere else in particular. likewise, those who prefer to outsource their manufacturing plants doesn't mean the products are of less value or "fake" to say the least. a "fake" item constitutes product misrepresentation in terms of the expected item quality rather than where the product is made.

OT: It is a general misconception that items made in china are of poor quality. they have cheap labor, but that doesn't beget cheap products. if it did, then manufacturers would rather opt somewhere else instead since china ain't the only one with cheap labor. 

IMO, this (the selling of counterfeit items) shouldn't be allowed here. Think about the people that will waste their hard-earned money (I know.. Caveat Emptor and all - pero tulungan na rin natin yung mga less savvy members). Think about the culture/attitude it promotes. It's the kind of thing that I don't want Philmusic to be associated with, especially given the site's status as the best place to buy gear locally. Let's not water the image/reputation down with these kinds of sellers.

Kung may gusto naman bumili ng peke talaga, pwede naman siya makahanap nang madali elsewhere. No need to accomodate them, imo.

the goal here is to eliminate "caveat emptor". it's what's constitutes the gray area IMO. we have to ensure that the buyers and sellers here are compliant when it comes to trust and standards of fair trade practices.

Guys, let's keep the comments and opinions coming. only as soon as we get everybody's agreement could we iron out and implement this interdependent ruling across PM's classifieds boards. thank you everyone!

Offline Chow23

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2012, 11:11:01 PM »
"Made in China" is different from "fake". It doesn't matter where it's made - a fake is a fake.


thanks for the reminder sir,,, it really helped? tsk,,,

i read my "IMHO" article about this thread's topic and i didn't say anything about the equality of a genuine product to a made in china product,,,
in fact i gave a punchline on the last line of that paragraph saying: "no offense w/ china pips - sige sa inyo na spratlys/Scarborough Shoal, hehehehe!"

it just so happen that the said country has always been associated w/ "copies" which this thread is talking about right now

i also hate fakes thats why i always review the products as well as the seller whom im going to avail the product here sa PM, because i know that i hold the overall responsibility of my transaction,

thus, i respectfully disagree to these statement: "The actions of the members reflect the reputation of the site. PM is involved no matter what since the transactions originated here. Say for example somebody asks, "where did you buy that Class A gear?", one may reply in general "sa nakilala ko sa philmusic.com" or "sa taga-philmusic.com" instead of "kay riff_6603" etc. PM originated and flourished even before the classifieds came to be" ,,,, the example is good at napangiti rin ako, kasi miski ako di ko maalala yung username ng katransact ko kapag ganyan ka-complicated... but seriously, thats why i strongly agree to always have the PM users/buyers to review the sellers and the products that they are going to buy, for at the end of the day, they will be the one who is going to be responsible, and the site will not be liable about that for all the necesarry instructions/precautions had been advised by the site Even if you review Ebay's, amazon's and sulit.com's policies, warning such as this has always been present,,, LET US NOT PERSONIFY PHILMUSIC,,,  let the "Masang PM users"decide pero parang naka-decide na yata ang kinauukulan eh... well then, my full trust and respect will always be w/ the MODS. God Bless everyone!

JESUS is the ROCK ON which i STAND!!!
References: daryl21, bossingboss, mahavishnu, thecrow23, alek01, mimi_dada, arkin zion, Muzickero, Alalala, numeroh_unoh, demoboi, daniel_lee, ebakoids, vic_6, zer0co0l,garethvpureenergy, sprkplg...

Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2012, 12:14:27 AM »
thus, i respectfully disagree to these statement: "The actions of the members reflect the reputation of the site. PM is involved no matter what since the transactions originated here. Say for example somebody asks, "where did you buy that Class A gear?", one may reply in general "sa nakilala ko sa philmusic.com" or "sa taga-philmusic.com" instead of "kay riff_6603" etc. PM originated and flourished even before the classifieds came to be" ,,,, the example is good at napangiti rin ako, kasi miski ako di ko maalala yung username ng katransact ko kapag ganyan ka-complicated... but seriously, thats why i strongly agree to always have the PM users/buyers to review the sellers and the products that they are going to buy, for at the end of the day, they will be the one who is going to be responsible, and the site will not be liable about that for all the necesarry instructions/precautions had been advised by the site Even if you review Ebay's, amazon's and sulit.com's policies, warning such as this has always been present,,, LET US NOT PERSONIFY PHILMUSIC,,,  let the "Masang PM users" decide pero parang naka-decide na yata ang kinauukulan eh... well then, my full trust and respect will always be w/ the MODS. God Bless everyone!

I agree with your point. the site indeed is not accountable but still, damay pa din "in a way". I salute you for being a responsible individual when it comes to fair trade, but not everyone practices such ideals unfortunately. What were trying to protect here are the members, as well as the site's rep as a whole. We understand that it won't be 100% foolproof; no matter how heavy a sanction could be when certain policies are transgressed, or no matter how detailed any disclaimers are presented. We've had "caveat emptor" for the longest time, but still we're getting cries from the masses re unfair trade and practices. this action all originated from the masa's pleas - we're only making things official. If not for PM's concerned forumites, we wouldn't have this rule in the first place IMHO.

Offline smartassplayingdumb

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2012, 09:22:34 AM »
Okay I dunno why my thread got locked again. I thought this was cleared up.

http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=244661.0

Offline boxxed

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2012, 11:09:50 AM »
Last post ko na to sir for this. Shouldn't this matter be decided through a poll instead? Para fair to all at wala nang masabi
ang lahat. Just my suggestion...
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!

Offline rtf_axeman

  • Philmusicus Addictus
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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2012, 02:04:36 PM »
Last post ko na to sir for this. Shouldn't this matter be decided through a poll instead? Para fair to all at wala nang masabi
ang lahat. Just my suggestion...

hmm, i think everybody has agreed on the "anti-fake" movement ng forumers / mods.. ung fineprint ang pinag uusapan pa, pero siguro nga majority wins? a poll wouldnt be a bad idea  :mrgreen:

Offline Chow23

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2012, 05:17:15 PM »
I agree with your point. the site indeed is not accountable but still, damay pa din "in a way". I salute you for being a responsible individual when it comes to fair trade, but not everyone practices such ideals unfortunately. What were trying to protect here are the members, as well as the site's rep as a whole. We understand that it won't be 100% foolproof; no matter how heavy a sanction could be when certain policies are transgressed, or no matter how detailed any disclaimers are presented. We've had "caveat emptor" for the longest time, but still we're getting cries from the masses re unfair trade and practices. this action all originated from the masa's pleas - we're only making things official. If not for PM's concerned forumites, we wouldn't have this rule in the first place IMHO.

+1 ako dyan sir! last post na po ito,,, a poll is not a bad idea like what the others suggested, thanks for having a glimpse sa mga comment ko sir, GOD BLESS and MORE POWER sa PHILMUSIC!!!
JESUS is the ROCK ON which i STAND!!!
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Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Should we allow counterfeit items to be sold in the classifieds?
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2012, 09:38:19 PM »
Last post ko na to sir for this. Shouldn't this matter be decided through a poll instead? Para fair to all at wala nang masabi
ang lahat. Just my suggestion...

poll appended! :-D