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Author Topic: Power Amplifier Advice  (Read 5286 times)

Offline Agent_So

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Power Amplifier Advice
« on: October 13, 2006, 04:35:55 PM »
sir anung ok na amplifier for JBL JRX 115 250watts.. ummm.. yung mura lang sana na quality.. mahal kasi masyado ang crown or qsc, hindi pa pasok sa buget.. btw, magnagbebenta sakin ng C-Audio ST 600 england daw siya.. 19k benta sakin orig price daw is 38k sa JB.. can anyone confirm this and reviews please. thanks..
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Direk

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2006, 10:48:37 PM »
Your speaker spec:
The JRX115 is a 15" two-way front-of-house speaker with 1000 watts peak power capacity and 250 watts continuous.
Frequency Range (-10 dB): 38 Hz -16 kHz Frequency Response (±3 dB): 50 Hz - 12.5 kHz Sensitivity (1w/1m): 98 dB SPL Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm Power Capacity: 250 watts Peak Power Capacity: 1000 watts Recommended Amplifier Power: 250 watts to 500 watts into 8 Ohm Maximum SPL: 128 dB Nominal Dispersion: 90 °x 50 ° Crossover Frequency: 1.6 kHz

Your amp spec: C-Audio ST600 stereo
     Specifications:
Output power: 2x600W @4 Ohm 1kHz
                     2x400W @8 Ohms
                     2x200W @16 Ohms
                     1200W 8 Ohms bridged


From the spec alone of the two items mentioned,they will match. Accordingly,With a max. continuous 122db(close to max SPL design,128db) output sound level from the speaker,you needn only 256watts( 400watts is so much for the speaker alone). If the said speaker,need more power to 4ohms(due to impedance variations),your amp safely can handle due it has 600watts reserve power for the demand.
    Finally, your is ear will be final the arbiter for the sound quality aspect between the two combination.Goodluck!


Direk

Offline Agent_So

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2006, 12:43:20 AM »
thanks sir direk, btw, marerecomend mo ba tong c-audio? parang hindi kasi siya ganun ka kilala pero england made..

btw, san ka sa jeddah sir? kasi taga saudia city kami..
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Direk

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2006, 03:29:49 AM »
First about the amp.,so far any design and manufactured from U.K. has its roots to better engineering.But ofcourse,trial and actual use may vary depending sa applications(meaning abuse of use).Specifications-wise, the C-Audio got the first notice.Sounds-wise, actual evaluations may help.
    Where am i in Jeddah?How about this, Saudia City, NC7-30E extension 7521.Give me a line pag gusto mong i-visual natin then test yung kursunada mong amp.Welcome nebor!  


Direk

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2006, 08:16:27 AM »
The system specs of the C-Audio amp and JBL speaker combination looks okay.

Total System Power : 800 watts
Maximum Sound Level at full power at 1 meter: 124 decibels

I am not sure if the C-Audio power amp is really made in England. I may be wrong but judging from the price, I suspect that it is probably manufactured in China. Try searching for their website and user reviews in the internet...
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty


Offline KitC

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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 10:43:20 AM »
I read somewhere that the C-Audio cooling system wasn't so good because it vented hot air towards the caps which could cause them to dry out thereby shortening the caps life span.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Agent_So

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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2006, 12:24:05 PM »
--sorry double post--
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Agent_So

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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2006, 12:25:25 PM »
Quote from: Direk
First about the amp.,so far any design and manufactured from U.K. has its roots to better engineering.But ofcourse,trial and actual use may vary depending sa applications(meaning abuse of use).Specifications-wise, the C-Audio got the first notice.Sounds-wise, actual evaluations may help.
    Where am i in Jeddah?How about this, Saudia City, NC7-30E extension 7521.Give me a line pag gusto mong i-visual natin then test yung kursunada mong amp.Welcome nebor!  


Direk



cool! taga NC11-6A kami sir. pero nandito na ako sa pilipinas mga 3years na ako since huling nakabalik dyan.. kasi napabayaan ko residence visa ko.. baka before the year ends, or early next year pumunta ako dyan.. baka kilala mo parents ko.. Mr. Henry And Mrs. Remy So.. hehehe..


Quote
I am not sure if the C-Audio power amp is really made in England. I may be wrong but judging from the price, I suspect that it is probably manufactured in China. Try searching for their website and user reviews in the internet...



sir tarkuz the original price according sa nagbebenta sakin is 38k sa JB music..ill buy it 2nd hand kasi hindi ko kaya brand new.. di pasok sa buget.. hehhee.. but i still have to confirm this sa JB..



Quote
I read somewhere that the C-Audio cooling system wasn't so good because it vented hot air towards the caps which could cause them to dry out thereby shortening the caps life span.



naku, sir can you give me link? sana wag naman.. or maybe sa old model nila yun. baka this particular model ok na siya.. ill search google too..


thanks mga sir sa reply

i hope to hear more advise and suggestion..
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline KitC

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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2006, 01:44:17 PM »
Quote from: Agent_So

Quote
I read somewhere that the C-Audio cooling system wasn't so good because it vented hot air towards the caps which could cause them to dry out thereby shortening the caps life span.



naku, sir can you give me link? sana wag naman.. or maybe sa old model nila yun. baka this particular model ok na siya.. ill search google too..


This link.

Scroll down and you will see the ST600 specifically mentioned.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Agent_So

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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2006, 02:05:55 PM »
Quote from: KitC
Quote from: Agent_So

Quote
I read somewhere that the C-Audio cooling system wasn't so good because it vented hot air towards the caps which could cause them to dry out thereby shortening the caps life span.



naku, sir can you give me link? sana wag naman.. or maybe sa old model nila yun. baka this particular model ok na siya.. ill search google too..


This link.

Scroll down and you will see the ST600 specifically mentioned.



oh shoot! you think sir i can modify this amp? i mean putting additional fans. or maybe transfering the fan?
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline KitC

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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2006, 02:19:03 PM »
Hard to say... haven't seen any diagrams of the ST600. My guess is it was an attempt to cool the amp's PSU but a design flaw routed the hot air across the PSU caps as well as the rectifiers. Can't say if additional fans will solve that problem unless you can route fresh cool air into the PSU. IMO, it may be more trouble than it's worth.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Agent_So

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2006, 04:17:49 PM »
sigh... i guess i have to keep looking... sana may ma suggest kayo na ok.. na mura lang.. buget for amp 20k below.. and kung may alam kayo ngbebenta ng qsc or crown na 2nd hand basta maayus.. please refer them to me.. salamat guys!
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Agent_So

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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2006, 04:53:27 PM »
guys i found this sa audiophile crown xls402D nasa 19100 lang! ok na kaya eto? naka less 20% na yan.. comments please.thanks again. hiya na ako sa inyo... dami ko tanung. hehehe
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Agent_So

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2006, 05:20:50 PM »
eto pa pala may ngbebenta sakin carvin dcm 2000 nasa 23k benebenta sakin..tatawaran ko pa.. hindi paraw to nagamit.. and nasa 46k daw brand new.. totoo kaya??
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2006, 11:22:02 PM »
Quote from: Agent_So
guys i found this sa audiophile crown xls402D nasa 19100 lang! ok na kaya eto? naka less 20% na yan.. comments please.thanks again.

Crown XLS402D
stereo 300 watts @ 8 ohms
bridged mono 1140 watts @ 4 ohms

+

JBL JRX115
98 dB/W/m sensitivity
8 ohms

=

Stereo
Total System Power: 600 watts
Max SPL at full power @ 1m: 123 dB

Bridged Mono
Total System Power: 1140 watts
Max SPL at full power @ 1m: 126 dB
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2006, 11:29:04 PM »
Quote from: Agent_So
eto pa pala may ngbebenta sakin carvin dcm 2000 nasa 23k benebenta sakin..tatawaran ko pa.. hindi paraw to nagamit.. and nasa 46k daw brand new.. totoo kaya??

Carvin DCM 2000
stereo 425 watts @ 8 ohms
bridged 2000 watts @ 4 ohms

+

JBL JRX115
98 dB/W/m sensitivity
8 ohms

=

Stereo
Total System Power: 850 watts
Max SPL at full power @ 1m: 124 dB

Bridged Mono
Total System Power: 2000 watts
Max SPL at full power @ 1m: 128 dB
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline Agent_So

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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2006, 11:03:28 AM »
sir ummmm.. can you explain this to me sir. kasi sir actually noob me sa ganito.. hehehe. as much as possible sana in laymans term. heheheh


salamat again mga sir sa help!


Godbless
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2006, 11:02:41 PM »
Quote from: Agent_So
can you explain this to me sir. kasi sir actually noob me sa ganito.. hehehe. as much as possible sana in laymans term.

sure, in musician's terms!

the crown + JBL stereo system has total power of 600 watts and can achieve 123 decibels at full power at 1 meter.

the carvin + JBL stereo system has total power of 850 watts and can achieve 124 decibels at full power at 1 meter.

do you think anyone can hear or tell the difference between 123 and 124 dB? you can't hear a 1 dB change because the smallest change the average human can hear is 3 dB. take note, this rule is for the average person. some people, like those who spend thousands on wires, hear better than others. talking about the price, the difference between 123 and 124 dB is 4,000 pesos.

the crown + JBL bridged mono system has total power of 1140 watts and can achieve 126 decibels at full power at 1 meter.

the carvin + JBL bridged mono system has total power of 2000 watts and can achieve 128 decibels at full power at 1 meter.

think about it, if the perceivable change in loudness is 3 dB...
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline Direk

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Di ba gusto mo ng Layman's term?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2006, 11:14:55 PM »
Kapatid,all these amplifiers will suit your JBL speaker.Period.....but!I think your question should be "how well this power amplifier you're considering will work well with your loudspeakers?"(remember,you got your JBL already).Simple:Borrow the amplifier from your dealer(downpayment pls.)for the weekend or if its available both on the store,listen to it.This is the best way of not only assessing its musical qualities,but determining how well it drives your loudspeakers.In addition,listening to the power amplifier at home will let you hear if the product's sonic signature(tunog lata yata ah?)complements the rest of your system.Finally, you could bring your loudspeakers into the store for a final audition.
    Here's some pointers to remember in assessing sonic and musical characteristics of the chosen power amplifier.The first thing to listen for is whether the amplifier is driving the loudspeakers adequately.The most obvious indicator is bass performance.If the bass is soggy(malamya tumunog),slow (reduced sa pace,rhythm and timing),lacks punch(inde solid or buo ang bigay)the amplifier probably isn't up to the job of driving your loudspeakers.Other telltale signs that the amplifier is running out of current(kinakapos) include loss of dynamics(inde kayang kayang ibigay yung low and high demand ng music),a sense of strain on musical peak(pumipiyok ang tunog kapag high ang demand ng music),hardening of timbre(inde mona marecognise  yung definitions ng performance,mapa vocal or instruments kapag nasa peak ang demand ng music),and congestion(kagulo na yung tunog,meaning walang definitions yung bawat instrument).
    Pano mo sya susubukan?First, play (gig's out dude) at a moderate  volume.Select music with a dynamic range-loud climax accompanied by bass drum,or music with a powerful rhythmic drive from bass guitar and kick drum working drum together(Yeah!).
   Eh di tapos nasa sa mahina(painit lang to be become used to the sound at a moderate level),eto na,increase-the volume-you want to push the amplifier to find its limits.Etong tanong, does the bass seem to give-out(bumibigay/kinakapos?)when you turn it up,or does the amplifier keep on delivering?(mararamdaman mo yan).Listen to the dynamic impact of kick drum.Its should maintain its tigthness,punch,quickness at high volume level.If it start to sound soggy,slow,or loses its power,you're gone beyond the amplifier's comfortable operating point.After a while,you can get a feel for when amplifier get into trouble.Is the sound strained(hirap),or effortless?(o kayang-kaya?).An excellent power amplifier produce a sense of ease;lack of power often creates listeners fatigue.All the problem described are largely the result of the amplifiers running out of current.Bakit nangyayari to?Minsan sa design mismo ng amplifier's output power,its ability to deliver current into the loudspeaker,sa loudspeaker sensitivity rin(mas mababa,mas need ng power),sa impedance din(2ohms(kalbaryo sa amplifier),4ohms(pasaway),8ohms(Pwedeeeeeeee...cool!).,room size(mas malaki,pakilakas naman oh),at eto, how loudly you expect your band to play.Even when not pushed to maximum output, a more powerful amplifier will often have a greater sense of ease,grace,and dynamics than a less powerful amplifier.
     Ba't mahaba? Remember,kahit anong galing mong tumugtog kapag ang gamit mo me weaknesses,from mic,cables,preamp,mixer,effects hanggang sa amplifier,up to the last chain,the loudspeakers,sayang lang dude!Your equipment's is your PERFORMANCE extension.

   Teka lang,PAALALA!!!WHEN PERFORMING THIS GIG"S TEST,BE SURE NOT TO OVERDRIVE YOUR LOUDSPEAKERS.TURN DOWN THE VOLUME AT THE FIRST SIGN OF LOUDSPEAKER OVERLOAD(DISTORTION OR A POPPING SOUND.)


Direk

Offline Agent_So

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2006, 01:18:40 AM »
mga sir, salamat sa reply and inputs! grabe dami ko natutunan! as in..salamat sa knowlege nyo na shinare.. anyways, though may iba pa na hindi ako magets. pero once na maiapply ko na ito.. i know mas lilinaw. salamat ulit..


bout the carvin, ok mga reviews nya.. sa crown naman totoo ba na made in china lang yan?
Solemn Harmony Studio
Blk-1, Lot-7, Diamond St., Silverhomes Classic, Perpetual Village 7, Bacoor, Cavite. CELL: 0915-492-2800 (Premier,Peavey,Hartke,Mackie,JBL,Shure,DBX,Zoom)

Offline Direk

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Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2006, 04:43:11 AM »
Kapatid..just shoot your question lalo na pagdating sa mga bagay na hindi mo ma-gets.Were here to help...ofcourse sa abot ng kaalaman namin.
   Bout the China made issue,as long it sounds good to you,on your equipments,walang question dun.Usually,kaya nila pinagagawa sa China para narin mas mababa ang overhead cost of manufacturing,then pasa nila ng mababang price din sa consumer.About sa specifications naman, still the mother company,like the Carvin,has the control on the design.Me quality assurance din sila kaya not to worry.
   I think mas mag-worry ka kung me repair support plus the replacement parts availability yung dealer na binilhan mo once na mag-start nang mag-fail na yung unit or else laking paper weight kapag nangyari yon.Goodluck!

Direk

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2006, 11:49:29 AM »
Quote from: Agent_So
sa crown naman totoo ba na made in china lang yan?

totoo, made in china yan.
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

hyper0822

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Re: Power Amplifier Advice
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2006, 10:21:27 AM »
ang dami na talagang made chine ngayon mga insik talaga