hulika

Author Topic: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?  (Read 3676 times)

Offline 123kidd

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« on: April 02, 2013, 10:40:14 PM »
Hello! Philmusic,

Just want to know, what are the pros and cons  recording drums using electric drumset?

I heard some local bands, specially in underground scene metal/hardcore using electric drums..

Kindly share your thoughts or experienced, Thanks!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 12:56:58 PM by 123kidd »



Online jake zulueta

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 11:13:41 AM »
Hello! Philmusic,

Just want to know, what are the pros and cons  recording drums using electric drumset?

I heard some local bands, specially in underground scened metal/hardcore using electric drums..

Kindly share your thoughts or eperienced, Thanks!

Pro's:
1. Tuning of the kit is always accurate
2. You'll need little space
3. No mics
4. Easy to mix

Cons:
1. You can't produce actual cymbal sound - even if you hit it anywhere, it would still be the same programmed sound (for  rides of course its different)
2. Set up can be limited ( 3 toms, 1 crash and 1 ride)

Wala na ko maisip na iba, pero for sure may magrereply pa dito.


Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 12:24:16 PM »
Limited dynamics - often low velocity samples sound the same as high velocity; only volume is changed.
Hihat is mostly open or closed; no half-open samples (except with Roland SPD series which require the hihat pedal to effectively control it.)
Samples don't change according to where the pad is hit. (Roland V-drums addresses this, I think).

Some drum modules like the Alesis DM5 used to trigger some samples like snares in a random fashion to simulate changes in tone. It's hard to explain but try to google about it.

If you want to emulate a real drum set, BFD and DFHS are the best I've heard in sampled drums, but when using something like the SPD series to replace a real drum kit, it's best to use them in addition to the drums or to trigger electronic drum samples.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 04:36:34 PM »
kick and toms na electronic ok na. add a little distortion to fatten them up and reverb

use acoustic snare and cymbals

here's mine:

Online jake zulueta

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 06:21:33 PM »
kick and toms na electronic ok na. add a little distortion to fatten them up and reverb

use acoustic snare and cymbals

here's mine:


Yan ang set up!


Offline jerseyboy

  • Philmusicus Noobitus
  • *
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 01:02:53 AM »
for recording and looking at the bigger picture, weighing pros vs cons, for me in home and small studio - electronic drums (roland or yamaha) still comes on top. its just faster and easier in everything: recording, editing and mixing. unless you have deep pockets with a good studio and all the time in the world then go with acoustic. but i bet after mixing and mastering, you can't even tell if the drums used were electronic or acoustic.  :-D

bfd is great, it just eats lots of cpu usage and memory.

Offline 123kidd

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 01:03:16 PM »
Woah, thanks sa mga reply.. madami akong napupulot sa inyo mga sir..

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 03:35:38 PM »
ELECTRONIC DRUMS:

PROS:
1) Easy to set-up
2) Quiet recordings are possible
3) You can easily change the sound of the whole kit via MIDI
4) You can adjust velocities of individual hits, and quantize
5) More sounds are possible depending on your module or software samples
6) No worries about room dynamics.

CONS:
1) Very unnatural dynamics, especially for drummers who are experienced with acoustic kits
2) Cymbals feel very weird. 
3) Snare hits, especially rimshots (even with triple zone pads) are unnatural too.
4) The best e-drum kits like those from RET percussion are VERY EXPENSIVE, with V-drums a close second.
5) Hindi siya pang Instagram/FB kung ikaw ay rock and roller. :D

Online inigo

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 04:31:49 PM »
kick and toms na electronic ok na. add a little distortion to fatten them up and reverb

use acoustic snare and cymbals

here's mine:


Astig!
400/hr recording. Banana Rising Recording Studio www.bananarising.com

SOUND SAMPLES: http://www.bananarising.com/p/sound-samples.html

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 12:30:12 AM »
kick and toms na electronic ok na. add a little distortion to fatten them up and reverb

use acoustic snare and cymbals

here's mine:


Pao di ka maubusan ng gamit. :D  Astig!  Saan na yung Tama kit mo pre?

Offline Xelly

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 02:21:27 AM »
ELECTRONIC DRUMS:

PROS:
1) Easy to set-up
2) Quiet recordings are possible
3) You can easily change the sound of the whole kit via MIDI
4) You can adjust velocities of individual hits, and quantize
5) More sounds are possible depending on your module or software samples
6) No worries about room dynamics.

CONS:
1) Very unnatural dynamics, especially for drummers who are experienced with acoustic kits
2) Cymbals feel very weird. 
3) Snare hits, especially rimshots (even with triple zone pads) are unnatural too.
4) The best e-drum kits like those from RET percussion are VERY EXPENSIVE, with V-drums a close second.
5) Hindi siya pang Instagram/FB kung ikaw ay rock and roller. :D

+1  :lol:

Offline banonie

  • Netizen Level
  • **
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2013, 02:33:00 AM »
this one is a good setup.

Nir Z jamming with Superior Drummer® 2.0 and the New York Studio Legacy Series Vol.2 SDX™
Nir Z is playing Hart Dynamics Pro kit 6.4 through a Roland TD-20, triggering Superior Drummer® 2.0 in his laptop.
He is using the Allaire library from the N.Y Vol.2 SDX™


Offline Xelly

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 02:44:09 AM »
this one is a good setup.

Nir Z jamming with Superior Drummer® 2.0 and the New York Studio Legacy Series Vol.2 SDX™
Nir Z is playing Hart Dynamics Pro kit 6.4 through a Roland TD-20, triggering Superior Drummer® 2.0 in his laptop.
He is using the Allaire library from the N.Y Vol.2 SDX™


Yung nga lang TD-20 kotse na presyo. :eek:
OT: halimaw pumalo si Nir Z!!!

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 04:35:03 AM »
Pao di ka maubusan ng gamit. :D  Astig!  Saan na yung Tama kit mo pre?

nasa bahay pa rin...

actually dodj binenta ko yung roland td4 bago ko nagpunta ng us last month. nag ambisyon mag upgrade sa td15 kaya lang nanghinayang ako after testing. the td4 was everything i need and it would be a big waste of money for the extra sounds of the td15. mas mababa din quality ng hardware ng mga bagong td11 at td15 versus my old td4. now i want to buy back my td4 hahaha

Offline Xelly

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 09:07:52 AM »
nasa bahay pa rin...

actually dodj binenta ko yung roland td4 bago ko nagpunta ng us last month. nag ambisyon mag upgrade sa td15 kaya lang nanghinayang ako after testing. the td4 was everything i need and it would be a big waste of money for the extra sounds of the td15. mas mababa din quality ng hardware ng mga bagong td11 at td15 versus my old td4. now i want to buy back my td4 hahaha

Uy nacurious lang ako sir. Bakit masmababa quality ng hardware ng td11/15? Sorry medyo OT

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 09:21:46 AM »
I am very interested to hear your comments. >> http://www.katpercussion.com/  :-)
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2013, 10:14:33 AM »
Uy nacurious lang ako sir. Bakit masmababa quality ng hardware ng td11/15? Sorry medyo OT

yung mga mesh pads at cymbal pads naman pareho lang pero you have to realize na yung essential rack components are made from plastic like the L-rods that hold the mesh pads and all the clamps are plastic.

pangit ng plastic clamps, looks brittle and lighter. yung boom arms mas payat at parang ampaw yung metal kasi yung sa td4 ko dati solid talaga kahit yung plastic clamps mas makapal.

pwede ako mag all the way anytime so i beat up my electronic drums harder than my acoustic drums because they dont make a lot of noise. spending 85k on the td15 will probably cost me another 10k to 15k to upgrade the clamps and L-rods with gibraltar. i dont need the additional sounds anyway - honestly they are not that usable, just variations of what is already standard in the td4.

the td4 gives more bang for the buck.


I am very interested to hear your comments. >> http://www.katpercussion.com/  :-)

tried it at guitar center. hardware is good but the module is its weakness. my benchmark for a good module is how well it translates my "touch" into sound, particularly handling ghost notes and translating my left hand hit against my right hand hit. all the roland TD modules starting from td4 can handle ghostnotes almost exactly how you would imagine it when you are on an acoustic drum. the kat module is just like an alesis dm5 or medeli module, there is only loud and soft and you cant distinguish distinguish between hitting pads with your left hand or right hand. doesnt capture ghost notes well. do a crescendo roll and you'll be really disappointed, sounds dont transition smoothly

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2013, 11:23:29 AM »
Thanks, peeves24! And, this one? >> http://www.2box.se/US/pages/products/  :-)
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2013, 02:27:59 PM »
havent tried it yet but i really tried hard to look for it for 3 weeks in 7 states but i failed. wala sa mga music stores.

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2013, 02:40:18 PM »
- RET Percussion kit.  :cool:

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2013, 06:58:09 PM »
havent tried it yet but i really tried hard to look for it for 3 weeks in 7 states but i failed. wala sa mga music stores.

I saw it at the winter NAMM show in Anaheim last January but was not able to watch the demo because of my tight schedule.  :-(
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2013, 06:58:46 PM »
- RET Percussion kit.  :cool:

Ano module nito?
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2013, 07:50:50 PM »
alesis trigger io with superior drummer

Offline MYN11

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2013, 12:09:55 PM »
I've used my Roland V Drums and Toontrack Superior Drummer Libraries in all of our albums. Controller ko lang yung V Drums. My sound is entirely Superior Drummer. Wala akong masasabi sa tone. Ganda ng pagkakasample.

Sanayan lang gumamit ng edrums. Pag medyo matagal mo nang ginagamit makukuha mo din dynamic range ng mga pads.

Ako baliktad naman. Pag lumipat ako sa acoustic drums hinihingal na ako ng konti :) Nasanay na kasi sa edrums feel.

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Pros and Cons recording drums using Electric drumset?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2013, 04:12:43 PM »
alesis trigger io with superior drummer

I was pondering on getting a Trigger I/O as well instead of using my DM5's MIDI.  For some odd reason, the DM5 has less MIDI sensitivity (or maybe they're a pain to tweak).