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Author Topic: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions  (Read 8965 times)

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2014, 03:09:45 PM »
yup dapat talaga nakasulat, pero dami kasing religious people, na gumagamit ng scripture without checking first the context of that passage e...

To make/argue any point with this mistake is invalid  :)
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Offline inexperience

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2014, 03:39:04 PM »
To make/argue any point with this mistake is invalid  :)

you made a mistake here " the OT is just for Jews, because it is the holy scripture of their religion, and not anyone else's."
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Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2014, 04:21:28 PM »
you made a mistake here " the OT is just for Jews, because it is the holy scripture of their religion, and not anyone else's."
In the context nga diba? When the Torah was written (the Pentateuch, or the first five books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy), there was no Christianity. And in the vein of our discussion relating to the laws prescribed in Leviticus, of course those laws, as well as the scriptures contained within the Torah, only apply to the Jews. There is even a term for non-Jews, which is "Gentiles." Proceed beyond the Torah, with the books of the prophets and kings and their works, and you will see that these are not merely words of God, but the history and culture of the Jews. The OT is practically the Araling Panlipunan collection of writings of the Jewish tradition and religion, which in one way serves as the preamble to the NT, where Jesus overturns the focus of the Jews on the word of the law to the spirit of the law.

To reiterate, in relation to how some of the laws in Leviticus do not apply to the modern Christian life, we take the Old Testament in this context.

Your point is not invalid though, but should be taken into another context, and here lies the academic explanation:
Had it not been for Jesus, the books of the OT and the teachings within shall remain only for the Jews, who are the chosen people of God. Jesus was a Jew who took a corrupt religious system and turned it back to God, by teaching the true meaning of the laws and scriptures. With his apostles he established a new church that is rooted on God and love. Jesus did not establish an entirely new religion, but he reformed Judaism into what it should be, and at the same time revealed that He is the Son of God, and henceforth Christianity was established because of this truth. However, because Christianity during its establishment was considered something like a Jewish cult, and at the same time a visible threat to the Roman Empire, Christians were persecuted and ordered to be exterminated, with the Jews and the Empire joining forces - at this time Christianity was illegal. Only during the reign of Constantine the Great was Christianity allowed to be freely practiced, and upon the conversion of Constantine to Christianity did the catholicism (defined as: universal) of the religion occur, because Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire. Now due to the canonization of the scriptures into what will become the Holy Bible during the Council of Trent, the Jewish books, now known as the Old Testament in Christian bibles, have become an essential part of Christian faith, in order to bear testimony to the glory and power of the God of Abraham from whom Jesus the Son of God was begotten, as well as to learn of the laws and scriptures that Jesus had faith in, but at the same time see these laws and scriptures in the manner Jesus taught them.

TL;DR, The laws of Leviticus as they are, are applicable only to the Jews. Christianity sees them in a different way, because the focus is on God, love, and the spirit of the law.


BTT: It's okay to get a tattoo if it is not a selfish act that takes away from others, or becomes an instrument in selfish, offending, or unloving acts which in any way offends God.
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Offline fender101

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2014, 08:34:31 PM »
If the tattoo is biblical verses then that's just fine :-D planning to get a sleeve on my right arm full of bible scriptures but its just a plan for now :-D
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Offline milesdavis

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2014, 12:52:24 AM »
why is tattoo an issue but preaching "morality" in the church is not?

the gospel must be preach in the church, not morality.

morality follows.

but you see, whether you are full of tattoo or not, does not make one a Christian.

neither following Jesus makes a person Christian. not make a person Righteous

even following or dying for Jesus... those things does not make a person Righteous, does not Save.

my opinion? preach the Gospel.

"You are Righteous, not by works but through the Righteousness of Jesus. believe it dude."

then let the tattoo issue take care of itself.

"What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.""
Matthew 15:11


Online gitaristadaw

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2014, 06:16:46 AM »
siguro bottom line is kunga madami ka ma-win na souls for Jesus because of the tattoo then go..
but kung hindi, at dahil meron lang yung iba na christians din..or worst maka-tisod tayo..eh, wag na lang siguro

Offline ron_rd57

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2014, 03:49:47 PM »
siguro bottom line is kunga madami ka ma-win na souls for Jesus because of the tattoo then go..
but kung hindi, at dahil meron lang yung iba na christians din..or worst maka-tisod tayo..eh, wag na lang siguro

Actually sa pagiging legalistic at judgmental ng mga kristyano,
mas maraming mananampalataya ang natitisod at nawawalan na ng gana, at mas maraming unbeliever ang ndi nakakakilala sa Diyos..
Jesus was neither legalistic or compromising..
the issue about the tatoo is a minor issue...

getting a tatoo to win souls for me is absurd, why not just admit na nagpapatatoo ka for fashion?
the only way to win souls is through the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the power of the holy spirit...

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2014, 08:41:48 PM »
Jesus was neither legalistic or compromising..
the issue about the tatoo is a minor issue...

getting a tatoo to win souls for me is absurd, why not just admit na nagpapatatoo ka for fashion?
the only way to win souls is through the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the power of the holy spirit...
+1
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Online gitaristadaw

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2014, 05:33:34 AM »
as the ts asked, kung makaka-apekto daw ba yung pag pa-tatto ng bassist nila..
and the "oldies" reacted..siguro naka-apekto di ba?
kung ayaw mo naman mapansin, matapik, madisiplina then it's your freewill to go to other churches, religions, denominations who will welcome you with open arms.. as we search for a perfect church, religion, or denomination that seems perfect, it will be imperfect once we are there na..kasi nga ayaw natin mapansin, matapik, madisiplina, mabatikos...
getting a tattoo is generally not "bawal" sa church..
going back to the question of the TS..sa pangyayari sa kanila siguro conservative yung mga nag react, and if they are the elders of the church then we should respect their opinion..
same thing sa winning souls, yes it should be scripture based, and it is about How Christ loves us, How God sent HIs only begotten son to redeem us... and the mandate or the great commission is, to go forth and make disciples of every nations..
sa akin lang, to the query ng TS..listen to what God wants you to do and not the people...
:-)

Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2014, 09:16:12 AM »
Actually sa pagiging legalistic at judgmental ng mga kristyano,
mas maraming mananampalataya ang natitisod at nawawalan na ng gana, at mas maraming unbeliever ang ndi nakakakilala sa Diyos..
Jesus was neither legalistic or compromising..
the issue about the tatoo is a minor issue...

getting a tatoo to win souls for me is absurd, why not just admit na nagpapatatoo ka for fashion?
the only way to win souls is through the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the power of the holy spirit...

Damn reall good stuff here!

Offline ron_rd57

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2014, 04:59:12 AM »
as the ts asked, kung makaka-apekto daw ba yung pag pa-tatto ng bassist nila..
and the "oldies" reacted..siguro naka-apekto di ba?
kung ayaw mo naman mapansin, matapik, madisiplina then it's your freewill to go to other churches, religions, denominations who will welcome you with open arms.. as we search for a perfect church, religion, or denomination that seems perfect, it will be imperfect once we are there na..kasi nga ayaw natin mapansin, matapik, madisiplina, mabatikos...
getting a tattoo is generally not "bawal" sa church..
going back to the question of the TS..sa pangyayari sa kanila siguro conservative yung mga nag react, and if they are the elders of the church then we should respect their opinion..
same thing sa winning souls, yes it should be scripture based, and it is about How Christ loves us, How God sent HIs only begotten son to redeem us... and the mandate or the great commission is, to go forth and make disciples of every nations..
sa akin lang, to the query ng TS..listen to what God wants you to do and not the people...
:-)

if the oldies reacted, why not shift their focus on something more worth paying attention to, minor issues to major issues...
yup we need to the respect elders but that doesn't mean they are more wiser than young ones in the ministry,
because spiritual maturity is not about age,

Job 32:6-9
“I am young in years,
and you are old;
that is why I was fearful,
not daring to tell you what I know.
I thought, ‘Age should speak;
advanced years should teach wisdom.’
But it is the spirit in a person,
the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.
It is not only the old who are wise,
not only the aged who understand what is right.

and yup that's the best thing he can do,
inquire of the Lord first instead of inquiring to some leaders and elders,
because in every decision we need to take, it should be between you and God..
and not your religious affiliations...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 01:20:25 PM by ron_rd57 »

Online Super BisDak

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2014, 02:28:53 PM »
TS, since you're considering to have a tattoo as well, I think it's important to examine your heart and your motives before you make the decision. I suggest you read the entire chapter of Romans 14.

Guiding questions below may help you decide whether or not getting a tattoo is good for you.

1. How does my heart and my conscience convict me? Do I have freedom in Christ and a clear conscience before the Lord regarding the decision to get a tattoo?
2. Am I passing judgment on a brother or sister because I don't have freedom in Christ to receive a tattoo?
3. Will I still want this tattoo years from now?
4. Will my parents and family approve, and/or will my future spouse want me to have this tattoo?
5. Will I cause a weaker brother to stumble or will I help edify the body of Christ if I receive a tattoo?
6. Is my decision based on faith and will the result be glorifying to God?

Ask for His guidance, pray for it. May God bless you!
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Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2014, 02:48:25 PM »
TS, wala bang signs na good to go to get a tattoo? usually...universe will tell you easily..by making everything fall into place... I think, if your doubting and still have to ask for people for advice..baka di ka pa ready to get inked... for me rak en roll lang...think too much,fuzz too much..it aint rock en roll...

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2014, 03:21:03 PM »
TS, wala bang signs na good to go to get a tattoo? usually...universe will tell you easily..by making everything fall into place... I think, if your doubting and still have to ask for people for advice..baka di ka pa ready to get inked... for me rak en roll lang...think too much,fuzz too much..it aint rock en roll...

tama si sir gandy. simple lang din ang punto nya. if you're doubting this much about getting inked, maybe you're not ready. Usually, if you are, design na lang ang poproblemahin mo. Modern tattoo arts per se isn't even an object of close religious scrutiny because it is a mostly secular art.

Perhaps you have to reflect and pray more not about tattoos, but to ascertain the meaning and value of the things in this world, which indeed have bearing towards your acts as a servant of God, or are merely being vilified by the will of men using God as an excuse.

Remember, if the rules of God and of men confuse you, you only need to remember what Jesus taught us, and that is everything is rooted in love.
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Offline ron_rd57

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2014, 03:37:29 PM »
tama si sir gandy. simple lang din ang punto nya. if you're doubting this much about getting inked, maybe you're not ready. Usually, if you are, design na lang ang poproblemahin mo. Modern tattoo arts per se isn't even an object of close religious scrutiny because it is a mostly secular art.

Perhaps you have to reflect and pray more not about tattoos, but to ascertain the meaning and value of the things in this world, which indeed have bearing towards your acts as a servant of God, or are merely being vilified by the will of men using God as an excuse.

Remember, if the rules of God and of men confuse you, you only need to remember what Jesus taught us, and that is everything is rooted in love.

tama, un rin dapat maging number one concern mo ts,
once you get the tattoo, un na un, kung ndi mo na gusto,
ndi basta basta mapapatangal, surgery pwede pero magastos ska time consuming, tapos ung sa iba pa kitang kita ung scars..
meron naman malinis ang pagkakatangal

kung magpapa tattoo ka dapat ready ka to face the criticism especially those religious folks..
but in the end na sayo parin ang desisyon, don't be afraid to make decisions, go for what you want...

Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2014, 03:54:28 PM »
actually..unang una kung apektado ko ka sa mga sinasabi ng tao..at ng society or job, family whatever...

di mo pa deserve tats  mo... dapat dala mo tattoos mo...confidence and pride..strength....non conformist,,sticking up against the man!....Henry Rollins.. Im so good in what I do, and I live a righteous life.. you cant pin me down..you cant touch me..

Online nicoyow

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2014, 04:54:11 PM »
actually..unang una kung apektado ko ka sa mga sinasabi ng tao..at ng society or job, family whatever...

di mo pa deserve tats  mo... dapat dala mo tattoos mo...confidence and pride..strength....non conformist,,sticking up against the man!....Henry Rollins.. Im so good in what I do, and I live a righteous life.. you cant pin me down..you cant touch me..
Yeah salamat Sir Gandy. actually hnd ko naman iniiisip ung sasabihin nila. Salamat sa mga replies. Naapektohan lang ako don sa nangyare sa kaibigan ko.  :cry:
nood ng TV. usually nasa huling channels yun mga pampatayo ulit e. then, ihahanda ang sandata para sa round 2.

Offline jpreal

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2014, 01:36:10 PM »
Hello po,

Share ko lang...

Background lang po:

- Pastor's Kid po ako
- My dad pastors a church in the province kaya he entrusted me to his pastor friend here in the metro
- Worship leader po ako
- nag patattoo po ako a year ago
- motivation for the ink: my pastor had a message about the hebrew language and how a hebrew word/name paints a picture that reflects a deeper meaning (long topic)
- my name has a hebrew origin, and did a research about it then decided to have it tattooed on my right shoulder blade up to a portion of my neck

on a personal level, I firmly believe that having a tattoo does not make you less of a christian.

this verse:

Romans 8:39 (NIV)
 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

the ink actually is a good conversation starter, nakasilip kasi sa ng konti sa leeg ko...

I believe as the church matures, it will be more forgiving as Jesus is... No condemnation, just love and acceptance...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 01:38:57 PM by jpreal »

Offline iyzburg

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2014, 02:32:16 PM »
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Now, it is often argued that tattoos do not carry the same meaning as they did in the OT, and that Christians are no longer under the commands of the old covenant, so if a Christian wants to get a tattoo or pierce his tongue, then he should be allowed to.

I would never argue that we are to enforce upon the Christian believer the OT law codes God gave to Israel for them to remain a distinct, theocratic nation. However, I do believe Christians should exercise wisdom when they consider getting tattoos or any body piercings. Let me repeat that so I am clear: Christian need to exercise wisdom if and when they are seriously thinking about tattoos or body-piercing.

First, I would ask any believer to question himself as to why he wants a tattoo or a body piercing. What exactly is the purpose of getting it? The plain fact of the matter is that any tattoo or piercing is a self-centered thing. The primary purpose of tattoos is to draw attention to the person, and a Christian should question whether or not such a practice is for the express purpose of drawing attention to one’s self. Does it truly honor the Lord? Or will it negatively affect not only the person’s physical body, but the body of Christ?

Secondly, though some Christians want to argue that tattoos and piercings are no longer connected to pagan customs, I would argue that this is not necessarily the case.  Even in our modern society, getting a tattoo is still primarily a sub-culturally practice.

The main groups of individuals who sport tattooing on their bodies are those people who are outside the norms of our American society. It is the bikers, the criminal gang element, the rock and roll culture, the Gothic culture, and other groups that act in rebellion toward the mainstream of society that generally have tattoos and piercings. Even though tattooing is becoming more “mainstream” to where it isn’t only exclusive to those various subversive groups, when it comes down to it, people get tattoos for the purpose of being edgy, narcissistic, and out of the mainstream, which is kind of ironic anyways seeing that it is “mainstream” people who want to be out of the mainstream, but I digress.

Ultimately, these are folks who don’t like to be told what to do, what to believe, and go to great lengths to demonstrate opposition toward those in authority who want to hold them accountable to their behavior, particularly the Lord and Scripture. They have a profound sense of individualism that is idolatry.

If a Christian wants to get a tattoo, even though I believe there isn’t any direct command against doing it, he needs to take those things into consideration and determine if whether or not he wants to be associated with these various, worldly groups whose worldview promotes rebellious attitudes.

Then third, tattooing and piercing is often done by immature, impetuous folks who want to be trendy, and thus they do not think of the consequences of putting a permanent mark on their body. When they “grow up,” and lay aside their prolonged “childhood to genuinely become serious about life, a family, and a real job, having tattoos and piercing holes all over their bodies tends to be a distraction for them. I personally know many Christians who got a tattoo when they were young unbelievers and now they regret it something terrible.  It’s one thing to get a tattoo as an undiscerning non-Christian; it’s quite another if you want to get a tattoo as a discerning Christian. All Christians need to ponder carefully whether a tattoo or a body piercing is something they are willing to live with the rest of their life, before they get one.

Text from http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/christians-and-tattoos/

I used to shrug off old folks' counsel that I thought were unreasonable and irrelevant. Then my father once told me, kung hindi man dahil sa respeto mo ako papakinggan, maniwala ka na lang na sa buhay, mas malayo nalakad ko sa iyo, at may mga bagay na nalalaman ako na hindi mo pa alam, kahit masmatalino ka sa akin... Granted that I say old folks are not the wisest, their tastes quite often not parallel with ours, still there is wisdom in their counsel.. Lalo na kung spiritually more mature sila than us..

I get it we live by grace.. But if we who believe take time to understand the nature of God, His Person, His Righteousness, His justice, His wrath, His redemptive work when He came as a man to die for our sins, His final judgement - truths which the apostles, Peter, Paul, and all who presented the Gospel labored so that those who will believe will know Whom they are believing - we will have a better picture and attitude of what is grace is all about..

Tattoo is a small, insignificant thing in the context of human freedom.. But to a Christian point of view, 'freedom' already is qualified, the Lord Jesus Christ its standard.. This maybe a philosophical blunder of reasoning, but if Christ aptly describes an improper view at a woman as adultery, while we may contend that 'looking' is just a small, appreciative thing, the judgement of the Lord stays and prevails.. It's not the looking that He has judged, but the heart that gave the impetus to ogle..

Tattoo, as many Christians would conclude, shows more of a heart still enamored with self less than that of a heart concerned with others or that of testimony.. Like this old joke (sorry if it is explicit) I found on some blog..
- A man goes to a woman, and asks, "would you sleep with me for one million dollars?" (indecent proposal)
- Woman: for one million dollars? Sure, why not..
- Man: Would you sleep with me for a buck?
- Woman: You're gross! Just what do you think I am?
- Man: Oh, we know now what you are. We're just haggling over price.

The danger of tats, IMHO, is that after I have pronounced I have given myself to Christ, that He is number one in my Heart, the Lord, Savior, God, Healer, Cleanser, my All in all -- all those will be put to naught because the tats would just scream out He is not those I testified him to be.
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2014, 02:54:08 PM »
Text from http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/christians-and-tattoos/

I used to shrug off old folks' counsel that I thought were unreasonable and irrelevant. Then my father once told me, kung hindi man dahil sa respeto mo ako papakinggan, maniwala ka na lang na sa buhay, mas malayo nalakad ko sa iyo, at may mga bagay na nalalaman ako na hindi mo pa alam, kahit masmatalino ka sa akin... Granted that I say old folks are not the wisest, their tastes quite often not parallel with ours, still there is wisdom in their counsel.. Lalo na kung spiritually more mature sila than us..

I get it we live by grace.. But if we who believe take time to understand the nature of God, His Person, His Righteousness, His justice, His wrath, His redemptive work when He came as a man to die for our sins, His final judgement - truths which the apostles, Peter, Paul, and all who presented the Gospel labored so that those who will believe will know Whom they are believing - we will have a better picture and attitude of what is grace is all about..

Tattoo is a small, insignificant thing in the context of human freedom.. But to a Christian point of view, 'freedom' already is qualified, the Lord Jesus Christ its standard.. This maybe a philosophical blunder of reasoning, but if Christ aptly describes an improper view at a woman as adultery, while we may contend that 'looking' is just a small, appreciative thing, the judgement of the Lord stays and prevails.. It's not the looking that He has judged, but the heart that gave the impetus to ogle..

Tattoo, as many Christians would conclude, shows more of a heart still enamored with self less than that of a heart concerned with others or that of testimony.. Like this old joke (sorry if it is explicit) I found on some blog..
- A man goes to a woman, and asks, "would you sleep with me for one million dollars?" (indecent proposal)
- Woman: for one million dollars? Sure, why not..
- Man: Would you sleep with me for a buck?
- Woman: You're gross! Just what do you think I am?
- Man: Oh, we know now what you are. We're just haggling over price.

The danger of tats, IMHO, is that after I have pronounced I have given myself to Christ, that He is number one in my Heart, the Lord, Savior, God, Healer, Cleanser, my All in all -- all those will be put to naught because the tats would just scream out He is not those I testified him to be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, does the logic of this text ultimately point out that getting a tattoo is a selfish act because it is an act of focus on the self?
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Offline iyzburg

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2014, 09:50:50 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, does the logic of this text ultimately point out that getting a tattoo is a selfish act because it is an act of focus on the self?

Ah, logic, the dreaded subject of my college philo class..  :)

Yes, from my text I opined that church musicians who get tats do it for themselves..

Is it a selfish act? If selfish you mean this:
(google search result)
Quote
self·ish
adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
synonyms:   egocentric, egotistic, egotistical, egomaniacal, self-centered, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, self-seeking, self-serving, wrapped up in oneself;

Anything done in an egoistical attitude and heart to the detriment of others, not only tats, indeed is selfish..

My point is this: the truthfulness of our testimony..
Quote
The danger of tats, IMHO, is that after I have pronounced I have given myself to Christ, that He is number one in my Heart, the Lord, Savior, God, Healer, Cleanser, my All in all -- all those will be put to naught because the tats would just scream out He is not those I testified him to be.
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2014, 10:00:26 AM »
Ah, logic, the dreaded subject of my college philo class..  :)

Yes, from my text I opined that church musicians who get tats do it for themselves..

Is it a selfish act? If selfish you mean this:
(google search result)
Anything done in an egoistical attitude and heart to the detriment of others, not only tats, indeed is selfish..

My point is this: the truthfulness of our testimony..

How does the tattoo undermine the truthfulness of our testimony? I think I have missed the link of the previous idea to this one.
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Turn up the sympathsizer and give me more waffle.
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Offline jpreal

  • Philmusicus Noobitus
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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2014, 11:59:59 AM »
Is it a selfish act? If selfish you mean this:
(google search result)
Anything done in an egoistical attitude and heart to the detriment of others, not only tats, indeed is selfish..

My point is this: the truthfulness of our testimony..

In my honest opinion, one act (getting inked, in this example) cannot lessen someone's relationship with Jesus nor the truthfulness of our testimony.

We all have different ways of expressing our faith and love for Him.

How does the tattoo undermine the truthfulness of our testimony? I think I have missed the link of the previous idea to this one.

This^^^

I want to clear this, do you mean:

Kung sakali nga na talagang "pang porma lang" or for "fashion" (selfish) ang motivation behind getting inked, then...

yun din ba ang effect sa testimony naten kung bibili tayo ng taylor, gibson, fender, martin etc. na gitara dahil maganda, maporma at maangas at dahil ako lang ang may gusto?

Just want to clear things out... :-)

Offline sonicassault

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2014, 12:03:43 PM »
In my honest opinion, one act (getting inked, in this example) cannot lessen someone's relationship with Jesus nor the truthfulness of our testimony.

We all have different ways of expressing our faith and love for Him.

This^^^

I want to clear this, do you mean:

Kung sakali nga na talagang "pang porma lang" or for "fashion" (selfish) ang motivation behind getting inked, then...

yun din ba ang effect sa testimony naten kung bibili tayo ng taylor, gibson, fender, martin etc. na gitara dahil maganda, maporma at maangas at dahil ako lang ang may gusto?

Just want to clear things out... :-)

This is also why I want this cleared, because the flow of the argument wasn't clear, it kinda just jumped to the conclusion. Or perhaps it was in the writing which made it seem so. While I have my opinion on this, of course I don't want to argue if I don't understand what I'm up against  :)
https://soundcloud.com/sonicassault
Quote
Turn up the sympathsizer and give me more waffle.
olive oil garlic tomatoes salt pepper basil oregano thyme chili

Offline iyzburg

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2014, 01:06:58 PM »
Yey, thanks man! I'm getting a lesson on how to present ideas..  :) Lord bless you, bro..

Sorry if my arguments doesn't support the conclusion I jumped to. Anyway, I went on to that from how I took iyung development ng kwento.. Like, a musician got a tat, got some reactions from the church his friend didn't quite approve, counsels came along the line na 'if you like it, go for it kahit ano sabihin ng iba (I'm sorry if this is a bad misquote), then some discussions about law and everything..

So I hinted una na we shouldn't dismiss right away the reactions of the church.. Lalo na if we know some who are more spiritually mature than us.. Ergo, don't go for tats ignoring how church might react.. there might be wisdom in their reaction.. I'm sorry if I discount na meron nga namang unreasonable reactions.. I get this too many a times in the ministry..

Next, iyung issue about the law, and the talk of grace, liberty in Christ, and the like.. For me, amazing grace appreciated comes from a heart, changed by the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, that have taken to learn about the attributes of God.. And this does takes time.. Para ma-avoid ang pag-abuse ng grace or ng ating liberty..

Last iyung testimony thing.. Yes, I'm aware I did not connect my ideas to this.. Pero I will try..

I am not comfortable, thus I will not suggest the 'go for it if you like it' lalo na iyung 'don't mind what others will say' in the context of the musician in the church, or as a Christian. I know that there are times those suggestions are the right thing, like say, preaching the gospel.. But the act being talked about, is tats.. This wouldn't be a problem if all in that musician's church, or for any other church or pastor or what not, is not wary of tats..

So if I go ahead and have my tats, and cause some old (and young) folks to suddenly question the authenticity of my faith and my testimony, could I really just ignore their query? Can I just go ahead and give them a colossal shrug because it's my thing? If you're involved in anything about ministry, it's most often about others, I believe..

Then on to grace and liberty.. Simply put, when I made the public declaration of my faith in Christ, I had to be careful of the picture I paint of myself.. And more so when they suddenly gave me a microphone and told me what for me during the first time was a weird ministry, 'song leading'.. And oh, there were many things I did that went against such public declaration.. Most of it I wasn't even aware.. My reading of His word, also the church, my parents, fellow ministers, pastors, friends, pointed those out to me..

So, I said that the danger of having a tat is that.. After a joyful declaration of Christ as all in all, inking after is a much less support of said declaration.. And yes, I insinuated that it may even tell otherwise.. To the those who witnessed my declaration, to the church, to my music team, they might indeed question the truthfulness of my testimony..

So how does a tat undermine the truthfulness of my testimony? It might just reveal that in reality, be it of spiritual immaturity or something else, in my heart the one sitting on the throne is me, not Christ (and sabi ko nga, not just tats, but any other acts that would betray).. In what way, like how I might have chosen to ignore it's effect on the church, on the brethren, with my fellow music team because it's my thing; or like how I might have used the idea I'm no longer under the law but under grace to allay any questions or fears lingering in my mind about the action..

If this conclusion is not logically sound, then I'm sorry indeed.. :)

As for the one asking about guitars, if without those maangas pile of wood you feel or think you can no longer be an effective worship leader, or if it gives you a better 'lift' during worship times.. your worship might mean something else other than that of Christ..
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...