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Author Topic: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music  (Read 18510 times)

Offline BAMF

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Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« on: December 11, 2006, 10:56:34 AM »
First off when examining "Boston Engineering" pedals, I thought that JB Music ordered these from Elder Audio and rebadged them.

The story looks a little more complicated than that. After opening the plastic wah/volume pedal, I recognized that it was inconsistent with the quality of the Boston pedals I was used to modding. The plastic wah/volume pedal was of shoddy quality.

Then later on, researching on the products of Elder Audio (www.elderaudio.com) , I was wondering why the Boston "Orange" amps were not on their website.

Then the final realization. I bought a set of "Boston Engineering" drum mikes from JB after comparing them with "Maxtone" and "Nady". Well...the Nady condensers kicked the Boston's butt but the dynamic mikes were very good and they let the wood sound of the drums we auditioned them on really ring out. So I bought them.

I won't go to how exactly I found out, but after some internet research, I found that these mikes were made by a China-based company called Soundking. (www.soundking.com)

So it seems that the "Boston Engineering" brand is really a special rebadge for JB Music and the products under this brand really come from various manufacturers.

It also means that each of the products under this brand should be auditioned and evaluated individually and not be given the blanket "Okay yan, boston e" generalization. Because, as I said, the brand is a conglomeration of products from multiple manufacturers. There will be both good and bad products under this rebadged brand name.

Being a marketing and businessman myself, I'm unsure of how to feel about it...it can go "Kudos" to JB for an innovative brand-name building exercise to "shame on you" for confusing the market with an American-sounding brand name slapped on Chinese products (although I'm more inclined towards the kudos...would have been perfect had it not been busted).

Or maybe, let's just suspend all judgement on the matter, and take it as it is.

Thus that's the more pragmatic thesis : Audition and test each Boston Engineering product as they do not come from a single manufacturer...some will be gems and some will be lemons. DO NOT generalize them all as good just because they share the same badge.
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Offline kahel

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2006, 01:40:06 PM »
ayus yung tip mo sir dapat test mabuti :mrgreen:

Offline Letour

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2006, 01:52:02 PM »
This is a strong case for trademark infringement. The whole bones about trademark infringement is confusion. If one will buy Boston Engineering because he taught it was Boston effects, then the case will hold water.

The problem now is, Boston Effects has to go after Boston Engineering. BAMF, give them my number.  :wink:
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Offline spilledmilk

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2006, 03:34:25 PM »
sir yung wah ba na sinasabi mo yung parang ibanez wf look alike?

does it sound that bad?
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Offline blindgin

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2006, 04:49:47 PM »
Sir BAMF, kumusta ba yung bakal na wah nila? review naman. :-D


Offline BAMF

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2006, 06:43:04 PM »
no opnion on the metal wah pedal. Haven't tried it, and haven't gotten my hands on them.

But they come from the same company, soundking, that makes the plastic wahs



And here is what seems to be the metal wah



I hope they're not identical circuit-wise because if they are, the metal wah will sound just as bad as the plastic wah.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 06:44:31 PM by BAMF »
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Offline chito_eoi

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 08:49:39 PM »
whew, muntik nko bumili nyang plastic wah

Offline greenweenie

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2006, 08:56:05 PM »
how does that plastic one fare as a volume pedal?

ginblue

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2006, 11:20:44 PM »
for me ok na yung plastic wah as volume, pero kung wah di talaga panget ang sound

almost without effect ang volume wah sa tone i think, i have one eh

Offline nhojie

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 10:57:15 AM »
great info there,sir BAMF!!
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Offline Jaco D

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 05:26:01 PM »
This is a strong case for trademark infringement. The whole bones about trademark infringement is confusion. If one will buy Boston Engineering because he taught it was Boston effects, then the case will hold water.

The problem now is, Boston Effects has to go after Boston Engineering. BAMF, give them my number.  :wink:

Attorney, if I understand your quote correctly, there is nothing illegal with re-packaging/re-branding as a creative marketing concept.  Where things go down the path of Waway and Jesse James is when the concept starts this smoke-and-mirrors game with the public and the latter thinks that what they're buying is the real McCoy when it is not.  Tama ba pagkaintindi ko?  Whether the public knew or not that the product is rebadged or was manufacted by a third party contractor, is of no bearing with regards to whether any law was breached or not, tama ba?  Similarly, whether the quality of the rebadged product is better, at par, or worse than the original is of no significance as well (or, as they say, "Its depend"?)

Offline Letour

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 05:55:53 PM »
This is a strong case for trademark infringement. The whole bones about trademark infringement is confusion. If one will buy Boston Engineering because he taught it was Boston effects, then the case will hold water.

The problem now is, Boston Effects has to go after Boston Engineering. BAMF, give them my number.  :wink:

Attorney, if I understand your quote correctly, there is nothing illegal with re-packaging/re-branding as a creative marketing concept.  Where things go down the path of Waway and Jesse James is when the concept starts this smoke-and-mirrors game with the public and the latter thinks that what they're buying is the real McCoy when it is not.  Tama ba pagkaintindi ko?  Whether the public knew or not that the product is rebadged or was manufacted by a third party contractor, is of no bearing with regards to whether any law was breached or not, tama ba?  Similarly, whether the quality of the rebadged product is better, at par, or worse than the original is of no significance as well (or, as they say, "Its depend"?)

Well, trademark infringement is a crime under the Intellectual Property Code of the Philippines. You are missing the point of "re-packaging". If company B repacks a product of company B, that is patent infringement and/or trademark. If you get a totally distinct looking product but use a similar brand name, that's trademark infringement. That's the simplest way to explain.

If you want me to explain it further, it will cost you 2,000 per hour or a Epi LP if you hit 10 hours.  :-P

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Offline kamotekid

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 07:19:57 PM »
Sir BAMF, kumusta ba yung bakal na wah nila? review naman. :-D

nagoyo din ako dito. ang mura kasi nung wah nila. i was goin to buy hell baby sana sa behringer pero nakita ko to. mababaw lang ang tunog nya. pero after using several time sira agad. hindi ko na binalik kasi nainis na ko. now im using a snarling dog.

Offline greasykid

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 08:04:12 PM »
This is a strong case for trademark infringement. The whole bones about trademark infringement is confusion. If one will buy Boston Engineering because he taught it was Boston effects, then the case will hold water.

The problem now is, Boston Effects has to go after Boston Engineering. BAMF, give them my number.  :wink:

Attorney, if I understand your quote correctly, there is nothing illegal with re-packaging/re-branding as a creative marketing concept.  Where things go down the path of Waway and Jesse James is when the concept starts this smoke-and-mirrors game with the public and the latter thinks that what they're buying is the real McCoy when it is not.  Tama ba pagkaintindi ko?  Whether the public knew or not that the product is rebadged or was manufacted by a third party contractor, is of no bearing with regards to whether any law was breached or not, tama ba?  Similarly, whether the quality of the rebadged product is better, at par, or worse than the original is of no significance as well (or, as they say, "Its depend"?)

Well, trademark infringement is a crime under the Intellectual Property Code of the Philippines. You are missing the point of "re-packaging". If company B repacks a product of company B, that is patent infringement and/or trademark. If you get a totally distinct looking product but use a similar brand name, that's trademark infringement. That's the simplest way to explain.

If you want me to explain it further, it will cost you 2,000 per hour or a Epi LP if you hit 10 hours.  :-P

Disclaimer: It's a joke!

Pero you can't discount the possibility na baka yung mga produktong ito ay intended talaga to be sold rebadged, repackaged, or whatever.  Maraming Original Equipment Manfacturers.  Meron akong kilalang may HD-DVD (or Blu-ray?) na gawa ng Sony pero iba ang brand (Chinese!) and Sony won't admit that they built it for the Chinese brand. 

Pwede ring  platform at technology sharing kagaya ng  auto manufacturers sa US at Europe.

Offline IncX

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 10:58:37 PM »

this is a very interesting thread ...

yesterday my friend and i went pedal shopping... we tried a GTX heavy metal pedal and a Boston electronics Heavy Metal pedal. they both sound alike, look alike, and are priced alike ...

the manager at JB was an arse ... never allowed us to touch the guitar, the amps and the pedal... he was hogging everything while trying to sell us the pedal ... of course, we asked for black metal riffs and he attempted to do it but only managed to reach the "black metal as promoted by guitar world" speed.

anyway... my friend will be getting GTX ... at least the guy there allowed us to jam with the pedals.

the pedal is A-OK btw... less harsher than Boss Metal Zone, not as noisy as DOD's Death Metal pedal ... and doesn't feedback like crazy at high volume settings.

Offline vhunter

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2006, 12:42:14 AM »
Hey guys.. disclaimer.. I am not a lawyer but i do know stuff about trademark infringement and boston effects vs boston eng. is not a valid argument. Primarily because no one was trying to fool anyone. They just figured out it was a great name because of the whole "dont by local" mentality dominant in or country. its not even local, its china!  And besides there are alot of similar names out there (tortillios, tostitos etc). Its really not a big deal.

epiphone has no factory guys... its outsourced to korean manufacturers. Same for PRS and all the others... they have nothing to do but they still stamp the US PRS name on it. Doesnt mean they are trying to confuse anyone... buyers should know that its not a US brand. I took one look at it and figured it was made in china.

JB is doing a great job though bringing cheap products to the phil. music community. They are at least giving you the option,. Now dont expect it to sound like a boss/ last like a boss and even feel like one... they are just different products.

Offline dominant_chord2005

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2006, 09:34:46 AM »
That's the sad thing about them repackaging /rebranding these products. One good thing about having to carry their brandname is the aftersales/post sales  support.  Like the case of Samick (when they still had a Korean plant) wherein they manufacture guitars for other companies to be rebranded later on and eventually be released as made in the USA or Made in Mexico , but in reality these are all made in China or Korea. I'm not saying their craftsmanship is horrenduous but by merely doing this it adds confusion to the buying public, specially when a obscene price tag is displayed.

For pedals, yeah I agree with everyone that we should try these first.  If it works for you, keep it, if it doesn't you could always return it or ask BAMF to "sushify" your gain pedals purchased from Boston.

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Offline Letour

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2006, 12:04:01 PM »
Pero you can't discount the possibility na baka yung mga produktong ito ay intended talaga to be sold rebadged, repackaged, or whatever.  Maraming Original Equipment Manfacturers.  Meron akong kilalang may HD-DVD (or Blu-ray?) na gawa ng Sony pero iba ang brand (Chinese!) and Sony won't admit that they built it for the Chinese brand. 

Pwede ring  platform at technology sharing kagaya ng  auto manufacturers sa US at Europe.

We are talking about two different points here. If there is an OEM using Sony technology, I will assume there is a patent license given. If it is without license, then it is infringement. Like that yucky MB van made by a Korean car manufacturer. The only thing Benz about is the engine and the logo.

On your example of the HD-DVD, I have to assume that the Chinese company paid a license fee to use Sony technology.

Hope this clarifies the point.  8-)
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Offline BAMF

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2006, 12:34:44 PM »
Clarify ko lang a few points :

1. There is a "real" Boston Engineering company in the US. They're not into music electronics though, it seems that they are into engineering consultancy.

2. There is nothing wrong IMHO with the rebadging per se (if the real Boston Engineering sues them, that's JB's problem). It's just that at first I thought it was only one company (Elder Audio) that they got their pedals and amps from and rebadged them as Boston Engineering. It's just that apparently, Boston Engineering is an in-house JB brand and the products that come under that line actually come from many Chinese manufacturers. By nature, the quality and standards of these companies will be different, hence the discrepancy between the Elder Audio pedals (also known as Beta-Aivin and GTX, which are great BTW) and the Soundking (the plastic wah) pedals.

3. That being said, I'm not saying also that Chinese products are no good. Heck, I have a ton of Chinese stuff. But there will be variability in terms of quality, even within a single Chinese manufacturer. Case in point, the Soundking mikes are great. The Soundking Wahs are little plastic pieces of sh*t. That's just an opinion BTW. And again, Soundking makes tube amps. Could these be the OEM of (gasp) Peavey Valveking ? :D . More research.

http://www.soundking.com/en-pro.asp?classid=44&page=1


Yun lang po ang thesis nun. Just test each "Boston Engineering" product carefully.



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Offline bloodshedd

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2006, 02:46:27 AM »
ayuz!! nicely researched!!
re: #3 statement ...there are really a lot of good buys. Even US based companies re-badge products while some have products that are manufactured in the same facilities.
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Offline greasykid

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2006, 03:25:24 AM »
Sa #1 ni BAMF, kung nauna naman ang JB to register "Boston Engineering"  dito sa Pinas, di naman siguro sila magkakaroon ng problema.  Unless bawal na ngayon under whatever trade treaty or IP law.

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Offline Avayaman

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2006, 09:54:57 AM »
IMO, if they wanted to try to "copycat" they would've tried to get a more famous name. something like "ross" for "boss"  :-D

Offline Jazz_thunderbird

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2007, 09:33:22 PM »
nice thread... i could really use this for my research work. sir bamf if u dont mind me quoting you. thnx.
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Offline jackyboy

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2007, 02:10:06 AM »
this thread is really informative. i have learned a lot, thanks.  :-D
lets go back to the topic.. hehe

Offline consequence

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Re: Boston Engineering Brand - Really rebadged for JB Music
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2007, 09:01:41 AM »
nice topic I've learned a lot from this :lol:
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