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Author Topic: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER  (Read 2613 times)

Online jolam1431

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ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« on: September 08, 2015, 08:28:41 AM »
Mga Sirs need your help again.  :)

Every time we have a video presentation sa church namin with a capacity of 200 chairs, I notice that there are some words na hindi mo talaga maiintindihan. And when I play back the same video in our home using my trusted 2.1 sound system ang linaw naman ng mga salita. So I figure that maybe it has something to do with the room's acoustics and owing to the fact that our sound system does not have any equalizer on the chain. Bale, Laptop > mixer > Amp> Speaker.

I am planning to buy a DBX Driverack which has already a built-in equalizer, crossover, feedback suppressor, etc. Do you think that proper setting of equalizer will solve the problem? (un-intelligible words during video playback)

TIA mga experts dyan at always God bless PM. :-)
 



Online peeves24

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2015, 08:51:41 AM »
eq wont help you with room reflections

for me, room acoustic treatment > driverack

Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2015, 09:44:07 AM »
eq wont help you with room reflections

for me, room acoustic treatment > driverack

Ah ok,maraming salamat Sir Peeves. I will do some research re: room acoustics treatment.  :)  :)  :)

Offline Jef2

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 01:34:42 PM »




    the new dbx driverack pa2 has a built-in 'auto eq' function. this may come in handy especially if don't have the luxury of time doing a room acoustic treatment.

http://dbxpro.com/en/products/driverack-pa2

Offline chiqgarcia

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2015, 02:25:46 PM »
why process a supposedly finished product (video presentation)?

click my sig, download the software (VidProkEnMasse).
may example ako ng compander sa mga presets (compressor/expander).

just do a video stream copy and process audio using the compander example. usually, using compression for spoken word helps a lot. ffmpeg has a compressor, kaya okay siya. the resulting compression is more or less similar to local tv broadcast, perhaps a tad more dynamics siguro.
Postcoital bliss is not a government housing project in Quezon City.
VidProkEnMasse ~ video processing software
http://vidprokenmasse.blogspot.com/2014/07/vidprokenmasse.html


Offline chiqgarcia

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 02:52:07 PM »
... and tell your voice talent to enunciate well.

Postcoital bliss is not a government housing project in Quezon City.
VidProkEnMasse ~ video processing software
http://vidprokenmasse.blogspot.com/2014/07/vidprokenmasse.html

Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 06:46:32 PM »
why process a supposedly finished product (video presentation)?

click my sig, download the software (VidProkEnMasse).
may example ako ng compander sa mga presets (compressor/expander).

just do a video stream copy and process audio using the compander example. usually, using compression for spoken word helps a lot. ffmpeg has a compressor, kaya okay siya. the resulting compression is more or less similar to local tv broadcast, perhaps a tad more dynamics siguro.

Is this a tested solution sir Chiq? But anyhow Im going to try this. Thanks A lot and God bless  :)

Offline david_leyson

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2015, 06:54:06 AM »
EQ may or may not help you, it might get your output bettor or worst w/o the proper tweeking measures, consider what youe venue consist of, i had and encounter with one of our churches that had glass door and windows and yes the sound really bounces back and forth, i tried what i can for the day but still no good, recommended to buy thick curtains asap so that the sound may somehow be absorbed and VOILA! it helped a lot, check things first and assess what can be a abrupt resoution to your problem
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Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2015, 08:43:34 AM »
EQ may or may not help you, it might get your output bettor or worst w/o the proper tweeking measures, consider what youe venue consist of, i had and encounter with one of our churches that had glass door and windows and yes the sound really bounces back and forth, i tried what i can for the day but still no good, recommended to buy thick curtains asap so that the sound may somehow be absorbed and VOILA! it helped a lot, check things first and assess what can be a abrupt resoution to your problem

Sir our church has a mixed of wooden and concrete walls. I guess I have to take the acoustic treatment route first before doing the eq treatment. What do you think, ok kaya to? Thanks again.

Offline chiqgarcia

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 04:20:50 PM »
Is this a tested solution sir Chiq? But anyhow Im going to try this. Thanks A lot and God bless  :)

i use this on videos at least 20 times a week.

btw, hindi nga pala updated yung example preset. copy/paste mo ito sa 'post-vf ffmpeg args' text box:

-af "aformat=channel_layouts=stereo, compand=0 0:1 1:-90/-90 -60/-30 -30/-6 0/-1:6:0:0:0"
Postcoital bliss is not a government housing project in Quezon City.
VidProkEnMasse ~ video processing software
http://vidprokenmasse.blogspot.com/2014/07/vidprokenmasse.html

Online sonicassault

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 04:45:30 PM »
Sir our church has a mixed of wooden and concrete walls. I guess I have to take the acoustic treatment route first before doing the eq treatment. What do you think, ok kaya to? Thanks again.

EQ can only go so far, and sir chiqgarcia's tool only helps to make it painless.

Acoustic treatment is the only way because you are dealing with sound bouncing off your church's walls. But then, if we're talking about a church in the first place, you really can't treat the whole place acoustically to keep the reflections down, unless you're willing to make your church look like a recording studio or an avante garde textile modern art display.

I don't know the source material for the presentation, but the best way to minimize unintelligibility is to make it as if the speaker in the video is right there in the room delivering his speech. that means the sound of the voice should go straight into a mic near his mouth, not from a distance that includes the sound of the room. if the speech is recorded with room acoustics, you're also amplifying that, and adding the church's acoustics making things muddy.
https://soundcloud.com/sonicassault
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Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 04:56:07 PM »
EQ can only go so far, and sir chiqgarcia's tool only helps to make it painless.

Acoustic treatment is the only way because you are dealing with sound bouncing off your church's walls. But then, if we're talking about a church in the first place, you really can't treat the whole place acoustically to keep the reflections down, unless you're willing to make your church look like a recording studio or an avante garde textile modern art display.

I don't know the source material for the presentation, but the best way to minimize unintelligibility is to make it as if the speaker in the video is right there in the room delivering his speech. that means the sound of the voice should go straight into a mic near his mouth, not from a distance that includes the sound of the room. if the speech is recorded with room acoustics, you're also amplifying that, and adding the church's acoustics making things muddy.

Sir the video material that we are using ay yung video preaching of some foriegn  preachers, if I view those in my own TV set with the sound coming from 2.1 channel multimedia speakers, every single one of us watching will not be getting a hard time catching up what the speaker are saying. Pero pag sa church na, doon ma magka problema... We already have a budget for the upgrading of the speakers, and Im eying the EV Pwered 15" speakers which is more or less 56k a pair.

And by the way po, we dont have a problem with the vocals of the singers in a live band setting.

Hope this will help you guys in giving your expert advises .

God bless po. :-)

Online sonicassault

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2015, 05:06:07 PM »
Sir the video material that we are using ay yung video preaching of some foriegn  preachers, if I view those in my own TV set with the sound coming from 2.1 channel multimedia speakers, every single one of us watching will not be getting a hard time catching up what the speaker are saying. Pero pag sa church na, doon ma magka problema... We already have a budget for the upgrading of the speakers, and Im eying the EV Pwered 15" speakers which is more or less 56k a pair.

And by the way po, we dont have a problem with the vocals of the singers in a live band setting.

Hope this will help you guys in giving your expert advises .

God bless po. :-)

There you go, whatever acoustics picked up by the mic (plus any effects like reverb) in the video is amplified by the speaker then the acoustics of the church itself adds more reflections resulting to a muddy, unintelligible mess.

Yung singers nyo walang problema kasi yung boses nila diretso sa mic then amplified then into the speakers. Wala kasing recorded ambient sound sa kanila na iaamplify.

https://soundcloud.com/sonicassault
Quote
Turn up the sympathsizer and give me more waffle.
olive oil garlic tomatoes salt pepper basil oregano thyme chili

Offline chiqgarcia

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2015, 08:11:47 PM »
ah yun pala ang sitwasyon.

hmmm... add subtitles to the video na lang.
Postcoital bliss is not a government housing project in Quezon City.
VidProkEnMasse ~ video processing software
http://vidprokenmasse.blogspot.com/2014/07/vidprokenmasse.html

Offline david_leyson

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2015, 08:18:19 PM »
Sir our church has a mixed of wooden and concrete walls. I guess I have to take the acoustic treatment route first before doing the eq treatment. What do you think, ok kaya to? Thanks again.
If live setting is not a problem but the video is, try looking for a video that is captuted directly from the lapel of the pastor, actually mahirap tlga kapag processed na yung ipplay mo na vid kasi mostly they were engineered to be heard on earphones/headphones or small loud speakers and not for bigger scale use, +1 for subtitle, a very big help for such situation

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Online sonicassault

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2015, 09:02:35 AM »
ah yun pala ang sitwasyon.

hmmm... add subtitles to the video na lang.

this is actually a very good suggestion. it works, and it only requires elbow grease. Di na kailangan magmukhang After Earth yung church nyo
https://soundcloud.com/sonicassault
Quote
Turn up the sympathsizer and give me more waffle.
olive oil garlic tomatoes salt pepper basil oregano thyme chili

Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2015, 04:46:37 PM »
this is actually a very good suggestion. it works, and it only requires elbow grease. Di na kailangan magmukhang After Earth yung church nyo

That's what I did on 5 minute video, pero yung 45 mins to 1hr long na video tinatamad na akong gumawa ng subtitle hehehehe....

Maraming salamat po mga Sirs sa mga tulong at God bless PhilMusic.

Offline iScream

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2015, 04:44:49 AM »
Before spending money on acoustic treatment, if you can reposition/re-orient the speakers, try to adjust them in such a way that the speakers' coverage will only hit the audience area and avoid the walls. Sometimes the problem gets aggravated when surfaces are within the speakers' coverage.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 04:48:01 AM by iScream »

Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2015, 11:03:46 AM »
Before spending money on acoustic treatment, if you can reposition/re-orient the speakers, try to adjust them in such a way that the speakers' coverage will only hit the audience area and avoid the walls. Sometimes the problem gets aggravated when surfaces are within the speakers' coverage.

Sir does this mean that I have to do some acoustic treatment ith the wall behind the speakers, its made of concrete po and and the distance is more or less 1 meter, concrete wall to Pole mounted speakers.

Again maraming salamat po.

Online sonicassault

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2015, 09:11:55 AM »
Sir does this mean that I have to do some acoustic treatment ith the wall behind the speakers, its made of concrete po and and the distance is more or less 1 meter, concrete wall to Pole mounted speakers.

Again maraming salamat po.

IMHO, if you're really willing to have the church treated acoustically somewhat, you might consider renovating the interior to mimic an auditorium's walls and floors. Kasi sayang naman kung temporary lang  tapos di ganun kaganda and you're gonna be spending money anyway. check out auditoriums with soft/cloth/carpet lined walls with uneven surfaces and carpet tiles, then the room may have some of those textile thingies hanging over like it was prom. it's not gonna be a band aid solution and will probably look very nice.

aside from acoustic treatment and speaker placement, you really can't do anything to improve the sound quality of the videos.
https://soundcloud.com/sonicassault
Quote
Turn up the sympathsizer and give me more waffle.
olive oil garlic tomatoes salt pepper basil oregano thyme chili

Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2015, 10:32:50 AM »
IMHO, if you're really willing to have the church treated acoustically somewhat, you might consider renovating the interior to mimic an auditorium's walls and floors. Kasi sayang naman kung temporary lang  tapos di ganun kaganda and you're gonna be spending money anyway. check out auditoriums with soft/cloth/carpet lined walls with uneven surfaces and carpet tiles, then the room may have some of those textile thingies hanging over like it was prom. it's not gonna be a band aid solution and will probably look very nice.

aside from acoustic treatment and speaker placement, you really can't do anything to improve the sound quality of the videos.

Maraming salamat Po Sir Sonic, at least you give us a clear idea on what route to take....

God bless po. :-)

Online sonicassault

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2015, 11:35:23 AM »
Maraming salamat Po Sir Sonic, at least you give us a clear idea on what route to take....

God bless po. :-)

well, it's only one route, of course expensive yan, ok din naman yung suggestions ng iba lalo na pag di kaya ng budget :) expensive yung payo ko, and high maintenance, but if a new look is in the pipeline of your church's plan then magandang isabay mo nang may consideration for sound. what I was talking about isn't far from something like this:

http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/www/images/operations/additions-mcnair-hs-auditorium3.jpg


but in the absence of acoustic treatment, talagang wala nang magagawa sa audio quality as it is  :-(
https://soundcloud.com/sonicassault
Quote
Turn up the sympathsizer and give me more waffle.
olive oil garlic tomatoes salt pepper basil oregano thyme chili

Offline chiqgarcia

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2015, 03:18:33 PM »
are the decision makers of your church entertaining the possibility of renovation?

alala ko tuloy yung farmer's plaza food court... echo to the max yung lugar nung may live bands pa sila. ang ending, hindi sila nagpa-renovate and wala nang live bands.

your band-aid solutions are:
1. compression; because distance of mouth to mic will surely vary. kung naka-lapel, well hindi naman talaga constant ang volume ng boses ng tao eh.
2. subtractive eq (hi-pass/low-pass filters); focus on frequencies of human speech and remove rumble (120 hz or so and lower).
3. complement the audio with subtitles.
4. keep volume relatively low. less energy, less echoes.

lahat yan magagawa mo without spending/buying additional equipment. bago pa mag-suggest ng software/plugins ang mga tao, bigyan mo na sila ng inventory ng hard drive mo like DAW, plugins etc.

good luck!
Postcoital bliss is not a government housing project in Quezon City.
VidProkEnMasse ~ video processing software
http://vidprokenmasse.blogspot.com/2014/07/vidprokenmasse.html

Online jolam1431

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2015, 12:33:26 PM »
New development mga sirs, our church is planning to move to a new location later this year siguro, so for now tiis lang muna kami but then we are planning to invest to some new equipment na lang muna. And if ever we need to do some acoustic treatment, all of your shared ideas will come in very handy....

Thank you very much po sa lahat at God bless you all. :-)

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: ROOM ACOUSTICS VIS-A-VIS PROPER USE OF EQUALIZER
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2015, 03:21:54 AM »
Mga Sirs need your help again.  :)

Every time we have a video presentation sa church namin with a capacity of 200 chairs, I notice that there are some words na hindi mo talaga maiintindihan. And when I play back the same video in our home using my trusted 2.1 sound system ang linaw naman ng mga salita. So I figure that maybe it has something to do with the room's acoustics and owing to the fact that our sound system does not have any equalizer on the chain. Bale, Laptop > mixer > Amp> Speaker.

I am planning to buy a DBX Driverack which has already a built-in equalizer, crossover, feedback suppressor, etc. Do you think that proper setting of equalizer will solve the problem? (un-intelligible words during video playback)

TIA mga experts dyan at always God bless PM. :-)
 

An EQ will cut down on some frequencies but clarity has to do with acoustics in your open space. You may very well have standing waves in your space and padding reflective surfaces can help fix the problem.
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