Lowballing for the Lord

[voidmain]

I'm gonna get a bit preachy here. Sabagay, Gospel and Praise board naman to. Please wala po munang balat-sibuyas; sabi nga sa Bible, "Better is open rebuke than hidden love" Prov 27:5

Nagbabasa ako ng Funniest inquiry thread lately at nakita ko to:

just go straight to the point. Reply them "E ano ngayon kung gagamitin sa church?"

Para malaman natin ang sagot.

tinry ko na. ang sagot sakin "syempre po, for spreading the word and blessing of God po. ayaw niyo po bang magbless ng ibang tao?"

muntik na ko makipagmeetup para lang masampal siya sa mukha.

Ang context nito is pinag-uusapan nila yung mga nanglo-lowball kasi "gagamitin sa church"

Guys, if anyone here has ever used the church or the Lord as an excuse to lowball; I rebuke you. We say we are serving the God of all creation tapos simpleng gitara kukuriputin pa natin? It gives a bad example to people who are not believers. Ang dating sa akin is mas importante pa na maka-kuha tayo ng good deal kesa ma-bless yung tao na kausap natin.

In response naman dun sa reply nung buyer, spreading the word of God does not necessitate us buying gear. Si Jesus nga walang sound system e and He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, and drive out demons. The early disciples didn't have any of those too and they were able to reach the entire known world at the time with the Gospel. Tayo po ba, may napa-galing na by us playing? Have we ever had someone drop to their knees and confess their sin because ang ganda ng tone natin? Granted, it may happen; but is it because of the gear or the tone? Definitely not!

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. - 1 Samuel 16:7

Yung heart natin ang importante kay Lord, not our gear. It's good to have good gear, kaso di ba mas importante to have a good heart? And having a good heart means you love God first, then love people. Nasan ang pagmamahal sa kapwa pag kinukuripot natin yung gear na pinag-hirapan nung tao? Jesus moved in great miracles through compassion. If we really want people blessed, let's have God fix our hearts first.

Note that I am by no means exempt from looking for a good deal, or asking for a price lower than advertised. But I never use the church and especially the Lord in this. As far as the Lord is concerned, pwede niya tayong bigyan ng mamahaling gear. I've heard of a story of how a person was given a Martin dreadnought (di ko lang alam yung model) by a missionary simply because he prayed for it. I've even heard of someone getting a Veritas guitar because sinabi ng Lord dun sa owner na ibigay yun sa kanya (I think this was Jeff Kunde from Jesus Culture).

My personal guitar gear journey started with a Lumanog acoustic. Una kong electric was a palo-china-necked guitar na nakuha ko ng 1k. Una kong stomp was either a Behringer DM-100 or a Boston DS-100 (di ko na maalala kung alin dyan sa dalawa). And the Lord blessed me as I was faithful with the small that I had been entrusted with. Eventually, I was able to acquire a Fender Tele, a good amount of pedals, and a decent tube amp (Laney Cub 12R). At the same time, my pedal collection got bigger. Its started with a multi, tapos isa isang naka-kuha ng pedals. Thankfully, maganda napasukan ko na trabaho. I actually prayed to have a job which paid a particular amount (which was almost double of what I was currently earning at the time), with the schedule that I wanted, and yung may possibility of going to the US. God answered my prayers. I got the salary I wanted, with a better schedule than what I asked for, and I got to go to the US all paid for by the company.

Summing up this long post, be content and faithful with what you have and God will bless you for it. And remember - the Lord looks at the heart, not the gear.

Sorry if some of you may have found this as a long winded rant/sermon, but I hope may na-bless through this. God bless po

[J-ROCK80s]

hahhaa! Panalo tong thread na to!

Ako kasi kapag ganyan ang sinasabi ng buyer na "gagamitin naman sa church"
ang sagot ko palagi ay: "Ako din naman, yung pambayad mo ay gagamitin ko din pambili ng gagamitin sa church."

Stating that the item will be used for church is not a valid reason if hindi nmn ang church ang may-ari ng item.

Kadalasan, sasabihin lang yun ng buyer pero sa kanya naman talaga yung item.

Better not to answer the inquiry of a potential buyer if nanglolowball na... iwas sakit sa ulo.


Yung heart natin ang importante kay Lord, not our gear -- MISMO!!!

Yan ang pinakaimportante sa lahat. Kung tama ang puso kay Lord, well then the material things will follow. For God will definitely provide for our Gears. Focusing on Gears won't draw us closer to God but focusing on his word, spending time with him does...

[cumbersome]

I'm pretty sure there are people out there who do this kind of thing knowingly, sadly, but maybe we shouldn't be too harsh, and immediately assume malice everytime someone mentions church use, and lowballs in the same breath.

First, knowing the value, and the range of value for music gear isn't something that's intuitive. A surprising number of church people (yes, pastors and elders included) haven't the slightest idea of how much certain gear costs, and many are totally shocked that it can get very expensive. So it can get tedious when a buyer with a certain price range in mind tries to reconcile the value that the seller is attaching to the item he's selling.

Second, most churches (and church workers) really, really don't have the money for gear. There are churches out there using empty water jugs for drums, and worn-out karaoke amps for a sound system. Most local church guitarists will probably never own even an Squier in their lifetime, much less the prestigious brands that many Christian guitarists in this forum own. With severely limited funds in their hands, with many churches not giving priority to gear acquisition, some people can be annoying to negotiate with, in their efforts to stretch their budget.

I can't blame those who don't subscribe to Christianity for reacting the way they do to these people, but for those of us who believe in Christ and were blessed with material things, whose 'prayers were answered', how should we respond to this situation? Granted that there those who are out to save a few bucks in the Lord's name, but others are simply in difficult circumstances, in need, the sort that third party theological sophistication doesn't really alleviate. Would we rather criticize the attitude, or address the need underneath?

[voidmain]

Thank you for that sir cumbersome

I may have been too critical of people who do this. And I apologize if I hurt anyone with my post. I totally agree with what your proposing. I think it will be a good idea to do this. Ngakaroon tuloy ako ng idea for a Christian musicians' thrift shop. I wonder kung gagana yun

[sonicassault]

I'm pretty sure there are people out there who do this kind of thing knowingly, sadly, but maybe we shouldn't be too harsh, and immediately assume malice everytime someone mentions church use, and lowballs in the same breath.

First, knowing the value, and the range of value for music gear isn't something that's intuitive. A surprising number of church people (yes, pastors and elders included) haven't the slightest idea of how much certain gear costs, and many are totally shocked that it can get very expensive. So it can get tedious when a buyer with a certain price range in mind tries to reconcile the value that the seller is attaching to the item he's selling.

Second, most churches (and church workers) really, really don't have the money for gear. There are churches out there using empty water jugs for drums, and worn-out karaoke amps for a sound system. Most local church guitarists will probably never own even an Squier in their lifetime, much less the prestigious brands that many Christian guitarists in this forum own. With severely limited funds in their hands, with many churches not giving priority to gear acquisition, some people can be annoying to negotiate with, in their efforts to stretch their budget.

I can't blame those who don't subscribe to Christianity for reacting the way they do to these people, but for those of us who believe in Christ and were blessed with material things, whose 'prayers were answered', how should we respond to this situation? Granted that there those who are out to save a few bucks in the Lord's name, but others are simply in difficult circumstances, in need, the sort that third party theological sophistication doesn't really alleviate. Would we rather criticize the attitude, or address the need underneath?

Perhaps in this situation it is best to educate the buyer on the economics of gear. While some of us would like to help out, most of us are also not in the position or with the financial capability to dole out used Squiers or other gear. Even a humble setup can get intimidatingly expensive.

If the buyer truly is going to purchase the gear as property of the church (as mentioned here, some just claim it is for the church but it will be owned by them personally and will only sometimes be used for church, which is different and totally deceptive), then we can tell them that our gear also come in price ranges, and some of our secondhand gear really just cannot go below a certain price point, and they would have to look somewhere where their budget fits, and usually there are people or sellers who can provide their needs.

If I really needed something to work with on a limited budget, there's nothing wrong with buying gear with the caliber of say a Behringer or a fake Fender or a random no-name guitar and amp or speaker. It's somethings decent to work with, and it is unfair to equate these gear with finer instruments, especially when trying to buy from a working musician or collector where they invested their hard work and talents for their gear.

As for drums or percussion, there's actually quite a lot of options as some really cheap stuff are available to most people (think of how much those barangay marching band stuff would cost secondhand). And honestly, water jugs are actually nice percs. Most modern percussion instruments actually came from improvised things like fish crates for the cajon and shell curtains for shakers.

I guess the easiest one to sell down is amps and speakers. They're practically a dime a dozen especially for low end stuff, and I wouldn't mind selling a nice solid state amp like a Stagg for half the price for a church to use for guitar and even for vocal duties (I've done that with a Behringer amp and the church people were happy).

[cumbersome]

^ Awesome, guys. There are people out there who have no compunction in using God's name to get an unfair discount, but for the rest of our brethren with genuine need, let us try to bless them, either with gear if our budget allows, or with knowledge as sonicassault suggested. Even small items like good cables and mics can improve worship tremendously, so let's do what we can.

[nicoyow]

It's good to be back! I was just roaming around because I'm selling two of my gears to add some cash on my savings para sa paparating na baby. As in baby! Magiging tatay na ako hahaha. Then nakita ko tong thread. Naexperience ko na to. Tatawad ng ubod ng baba kasi daw sa church gagamitin. Ex: selling Delay pedal. You priced it 5k for example. Tatawad sila half the price kasi "gagamitin sa church." Hindi tlga makatarungan un. They also invested for that item noon, so nung ikaw na ung nag iinvest, then bakit ka magkukuripot? Tsaka, kung hnd mo pa kaya bumili ng mga ganung klaseng item bakit mo pipilitin? Bakit mo uunahan ung nsa taas na nagbibigay ng blessing? Hintayin mo, wag ka mang agrabyado ng ibang tao. Para mo na ding sinabi na, hnd tinutupad ng Diyos ang mga prayers ng bawat tao kasi gumawa ka ng sarili mong paraan, kahit na ang paraan mo e nakakasagasa ng ibang tao.

peace tayo.
Love your neighbors dude! 

[marzi]

i prefer meet up talaga tapos test all you can sila. pag pina-cover ko yung Alive, Alive Forevermore at di nila matugtog, sorry pero walang tawad dahil the dude's obviously lying.

[crouchdash]

Ngayon lang uli ako nakapag Philmusic.

Totally agree with cumbersome.
For me. Educate with love.

[sterilium]

Good call, sir! Lowballing "for the Lord" is just bad testimony.

I'm gonna get a bit preachy here. Sabagay, Gospel and Praise board naman to. Please wala po munang balat-sibuyas; sabi nga sa Bible, "Better is open rebuke than hidden love" Prov 27:5

Nagbabasa ako ng Funniest inquiry thread lately at nakita ko to:Ang context nito is pinag-uusapan nila yung mga nanglo-lowball kasi "gagamitin sa church"

Guys, if anyone here has ever used the church or the Lord as an excuse to lowball; I rebuke you. We say we are serving the God of all creation tapos simpleng gitara kukuriputin pa natin? It gives a bad example to people who are not believers. Ang dating sa akin is mas importante pa na maka-kuha tayo ng good deal kesa ma-bless yung tao na kausap natin.

In response naman dun sa reply nung buyer, spreading the word of God does not necessitate us buying gear. Si Jesus nga walang sound system e and He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, and drive out demons. The early disciples didn't have any of those too and they were able to reach the entire known world at the time with the Gospel. Tayo po ba, may napa-galing na by us playing? Have we ever had someone drop to their knees and confess their sin because ang ganda ng tone natin? Granted, it may happen; but is it because of the gear or the tone? Definitely not!

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. - 1 Samuel 16:7

Yung heart natin ang importante kay Lord, not our gear. It's good to have good gear, kaso di ba mas importante to have a good heart? And having a good heart means you love God first, then love people. Nasan ang pagmamahal sa kapwa pag kinukuripot natin yung gear na pinag-hirapan nung tao? Jesus moved in great miracles through compassion. If we really want people blessed, let's have God fix our hearts first.

Note that I am by no means exempt from looking for a good deal, or asking for a price lower than advertised. But I never use the church and especially the Lord in this. As far as the Lord is concerned, pwede niya tayong bigyan ng mamahaling gear. I've heard of a story of how a person was given a Martin dreadnought (di ko lang alam yung model) by a missionary simply because he prayed for it. I've even heard of someone getting a Veritas guitar because sinabi ng Lord dun sa owner na ibigay yun sa kanya (I think this was Jeff Kunde from Jesus Culture).

My personal guitar gear journey started with a Lumanog acoustic. Una kong electric was a palo-china-necked guitar na nakuha ko ng 1k. Una kong stomp was either a Behringer DM-100 or a Boston DS-100 (di ko na maalala kung alin dyan sa dalawa). And the Lord blessed me as I was faithful with the small that I had been entrusted with. Eventually, I was able to acquire a Fender Tele, a good amount of pedals, and a decent tube amp (Laney Cub 12R). At the same time, my pedal collection got bigger. Its started with a multi, tapos isa isang naka-kuha ng pedals. Thankfully, maganda napasukan ko na trabaho. I actually prayed to have a job which paid a particular amount (which was almost double of what I was currently earning at the time), with the schedule that I wanted, and yung may possibility of going to the US. God answered my prayers. I got the salary I wanted, with a better schedule than what I asked for, and I got to go to the US all paid for by the company.

Summing up this long post, be content and faithful with what you have and God will bless you for it. And remember - the Lord looks at the heart, not the gear.

Sorry if some of you may have found this as a long winded rant/sermon, but I hope may na-bless through this. God bless po

[iamppej]

I'm gonna get a bit preachy here. Sabagay, Gospel and Praise board naman to. Please wala po munang balat-sibuyas; sabi nga sa Bible, "Better is open rebuke than hidden love" Prov 27:5

Nagbabasa ako ng Funniest inquiry thread lately at nakita ko to:Ang context nito is pinag-uusapan nila yung mga nanglo-lowball kasi "gagamitin sa church"

Guys, if anyone here has ever used the church or the Lord as an excuse to lowball; I rebuke you. We say we are serving the God of all creation tapos simpleng gitara kukuriputin pa natin? It gives a bad example to people who are not believers. Ang dating sa akin is mas importante pa na maka-kuha tayo ng good deal kesa ma-bless yung tao na kausap natin.

In response naman dun sa reply nung buyer, spreading the word of God does not necessitate us buying gear. Si Jesus nga walang sound system e and He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, and drive out demons. The early disciples didn't have any of those too and they were able to reach the entire known world at the time with the Gospel. Tayo po ba, may napa-galing na by us playing? Have we ever had someone drop to their knees and confess their sin because ang ganda ng tone natin? Granted, it may happen; but is it because of the gear or the tone? Definitely not!

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. - 1 Samuel 16:7

Yung heart natin ang importante kay Lord, not our gear. It's good to have good gear, kaso di ba mas importante to have a good heart? And having a good heart means you love God first, then love people. Nasan ang pagmamahal sa kapwa pag kinukuripot natin yung gear na pinag-hirapan nung tao? Jesus moved in great miracles through compassion. If we really want people blessed, let's have God fix our hearts first.

Note that I am by no means exempt from looking for a good deal, or asking for a price lower than advertised. But I never use the church and especially the Lord in this. As far as the Lord is concerned, pwede niya tayong bigyan ng mamahaling gear. I've heard of a story of how a person was given a Martin dreadnought (di ko lang alam yung model) by a missionary simply because he prayed for it. I've even heard of someone getting a Veritas guitar because sinabi ng Lord dun sa owner na ibigay yun sa kanya (I think this was Jeff Kunde from Jesus Culture).

My personal guitar gear journey started with a Lumanog acoustic. Una kong electric was a palo-china-necked guitar na nakuha ko ng 1k. Una kong stomp was either a Behringer DM-100 or a Boston DS-100 (di ko na maalala kung alin dyan sa dalawa). And the Lord blessed me as I was faithful with the small that I had been entrusted with. Eventually, I was able to acquire a Fender Tele, a good amount of pedals, and a decent tube amp (Laney Cub 12R). At the same time, my pedal collection got bigger. Its started with a multi, tapos isa isang naka-kuha ng pedals. Thankfully, maganda napasukan ko na trabaho. I actually prayed to have a job which paid a particular amount (which was almost double of what I was currently earning at the time), with the schedule that I wanted, and yung may possibility of going to the US. God answered my prayers. I got the salary I wanted, with a better schedule than what I asked for, and I got to go to the US all paid for by the company.

Summing up this long post, be content and faithful with what you have and God will bless you for it. And remember - the Lord looks at the heart, not the gear.

Sorry if some of you may have found this as a long winded rant/sermon, but I hope may na-bless through this. God bless po

Tama ka bro. wag na wag nating gamitin na "gagamitin kasi sa church"

dahil kung kaya mong bilhin un edi blessing sayo un ni Lord. kaya ka nga nya ginagamit kasi para maging blessing ka sa ibang tao. Just like purchasing it to the original amount. Edi naka bless ka ng ibang tao. Galing ng topic na to. gusto ko sana sabihin dati sa buyer ko na sa small church ako galing mas mayaman church mo. pero syempre hindi ko nlng sinabi. ayaw ko din kasi maka offend. sinabi ko nlng na fix price.

[boybawang]

dialog ko yung "gagamitin kasi sa church" hahahah....
pero AFTER ko na nabili

[iamppej]

dialog ko yung "gagamitin kasi sa church" hahahah....
pero AFTER ko na nabili

gas na gas na talaga kasi ung ganung sasabihin. 

[worshiper16]

maling mali ung ganto. dapat wag gamitin ung ganto sa pam babarat

[iamppej]

maling mali ung ganto. dapat wag gamitin ung ganto sa pam babarat

tama ka dun sir dapat talaga hindi. ikaw po ba pano ka bumili sa mga gamit sa forum?

[stL]

Definitely a no-no.

If the church is just starting out, make do of what you have kahit tambourine pa 'yan na yari sa tansan. Maiipon din ang mga tithes and along the way, the Lord will bless you with members with the capability to sponsor whichever equipment needed.

If the church is already established, bakit kelangan mambarat? Asan na ang budget para sa equipment?

In most communities, you buy your own gear. Kung wala kang pambili, you can use the equipment owned by the community pero kung nagkataong wala, sa ibang way ka na muna mag-serve. In my community, we discourage our elders to buy guitars, pedals, guitar stands, etc. dahil hindi naiingatan palibhasa 'yung mga gumagamit e hindi naman sila bumili. Kung gusto mo mag-serve, bumili ka ng sarili mong instrument - gamit mo, ingat mo, bitbit mo, bahagi mo sa paglilingkod.

'Yung PA, monitor speakers, projectors, etc. siyempre budgeted ng community 'yan. May kamahalan pero hinding-hindi 'yan dapat binabarat. Kung hindi pa kayang bumili, pagtiisan kung ano ang meron. Mas ikalulugod pa 'yan ang Panginoon kesa gamitin mo ang pangalan Niya para lang makapambarat ka.

Pag bumibili ka ba ng personal na bagay para sa sarili mo binabarat mo? Malo-lowball mo ba ang iPhone 7 sa Mac Store? Tapos 'yung para ke Lord siya pang gusto mong baratin. Susme.

[titser_marco]

Christian lowballers are a s s h o l e s , full stop

[Boxedking]

Kung ako nagbebenta at tinawaran ako ng mga gungg0ng na to, papayag ako tapos gugulpihin ko sila sa meetup.

Ex: Guitar being sold for P15k, haggled for P5k for the reason "sa church gagamitin" PLUS basag na mukha nya kasi hinambalos ko sa kanya yung tinawaran nyang gitara.

Just kidding. 

[rickbig41]

Kung ako nagbebenta at tinawaran ako ng mga gungg0ng na to, papayag ako tapos gugulpihin ko sila sa meetup.

Ex: Guitar being sold for P15k, haggled for P5k for the reason "sa church gagamitin" PLUS basag na mukha nya kasi hinambalos ko sa kanya yung tinawaran nyang gitara.

Just kidding. 

Honestly, ayaw na ayaw ko ka deal yung nag sasabi ng "gagamitin ko bro sa church" pag may binibenta ako noon... Kasi naka attend na ako ng mga meeting meeting nila ng gabi dati, alam ko nag papaikot sila ng envelope, so it means may budget talaga sila...

[robinonibor]

Christian lowballers are a s s h o l e s , full stop

mukang binarat ka no? 

Honestly, ayaw na ayaw ko ka deal yung nag sasabi ng "gagamitin ko bro sa church" pag may binibenta ako noon... Kasi naka attend na ako ng mga meeting meeting nila ng gabi dati, alam ko nag papaikot sila ng envelope, so it means may budget talaga sila...

may mga na encounter n ko ganyan dati. d ko ni rereplyan pag unang banat e negotiable pa ba for church use naman po kasi.

[titser_marco]

Honestly, ayaw na ayaw ko ka deal yung nag sasabi ng "gagamitin ko bro sa church" pag may binibenta ako noon... Kasi naka attend na ako ng mga meeting meeting nila ng gabi dati, alam ko nag papaikot sila ng envelope, so it means may budget talaga sila...

Exactly and these [strawberry] e r s are tax exempt

Sent from my SM-G610Y using Tapatalk