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Author Topic: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...  (Read 956 times)

Offline yjuangab

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Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« on: July 27, 2017, 11:43:12 PM »
Patulong po sa inyo..

Ask lang ako about Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals. I have a Fender Deluxe HSS 2000 model, the pickups are stock (Noiseless single coil on neck and middle then humbucker on the bridge). I tried it with stock pickups, I noticed that when the gain pedal is on, the single coils are much quiet than the humbucker. I tried the guitar of my friend which has Dimarzio Evo on the bridge and that setup is noticeably quiet than my stock fender humbucker. I also installed a Dimarzio AT-1 pickup on the bridge but there is still noise when the gain pedal is engaged and the Noiseless single coil are still more quiet compared to the AT-1.

I researched and it seems that the Fender noiseless single coil pickups 1st gen are ceramic as well as the Dimarzio Evo. And the Stock Fender Humbucker and the Dimarzio AT-1 has alnico magnets.

BTW the noise is not that bad and only if I engage my gain pedal. But it bothers me because whenever I switch pickup between my single coil and humbucker, the single coil is more quiet than the humbucker which kinda distracts me when I'm playing.


Question: Is Ceramic more quiet than Alnico pickups specially with gain pedals?

Ano kaya ang pwede natin na mod for Alnico para mabawasan yung noise/hum/buzz with gain pedal.

Salamat po sa tulong.




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Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 09:37:28 PM »
Any help pls??
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Online jgmredor

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 10:23:44 PM »
Any help pls??

had the same problem. it's probably your power outlet. usually amps have the 3 prong and older houses (even new ones) have 2 prongs. that's where the noise is coming from. pickups are just amplifying the noise.

and yeah the fender noiseless pickups are dead silent.  :)

the solution... i learned to live with it until my new house is complete. all outlets have 3 prong!  :-D

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 11:00:23 PM »
Akala lang ang naka experience.. By the way I connected an external ground thru my Marshall AVT 20, naka ground talaga sa lupa around mga 1 feet yung nakalibing na metal.. And yes there is continuity, I tested it with my multimeter.

Its dead silent when clean.. But the Bridge pickups Noise when the gain pedal is on.. Even with the Overdrive there is still noticeable buzz. I guess its normal with Alnico Magnets. My friends Squier with Dimarzio Evo Humbucker is dead silent with my rig so I guess I will try the Ceramic Humbuckers but I think I like the overall tone with the Alnico specially with the Dimarzio AT-1.

By the way I set my amp with Volume about 12oclock to 1oclock and the gain at 12 oclock but I'm still at the clean channel.

Baka meron pong Naka Alnico Magnets dyan na Dead silent even with gain pedals on, para po matry ko if possible. Salamat po.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:34:49 PM by yjuangab »
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Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 10:46:31 PM »
Sino pa po ang nakatry with High Gain pedal or Amp engaged, Ano po ang mas tahimik?

-Ceramic Humbucker?
-Alnico Humbucker?
-Single Coil (Noiseless pero Ceramic)
-Single Coil (Noiseless pero Alnico)

Baka po meron kayong multiple guitars na pwede po matry..thanks
previous deals(shipping):
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Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 08:31:36 PM »
Anyone?
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Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 09:18:35 PM »
Anyone who can help po?
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Offline Skybox

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 11:13:37 AM »
Patulong po sa inyo..

Ask lang ako about Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals. I have a Fender Deluxe HSS 2000 model, the pickups are stock (Noiseless single coil on neck and middle then humbucker on the bridge). I tried it with stock pickups, I noticed that when the gain pedal is on, the single coils are much quiet than the humbucker. I tried the guitar of my friend which has Dimarzio Evo on the bridge and that setup is noticeably quiet than my stock fender humbucker. I also installed a Dimarzio AT-1 pickup on the bridge but there is still noise when the gain pedal is engaged and the Noiseless single coil are still more quiet compared to the AT-1.

I researched and it seems that the Fender noiseless single coil pickups 1st gen are ceramic as well as the Dimarzio Evo. And the Stock Fender Humbucker and the Dimarzio AT-1 has alnico magnets.

BTW the noise is not that bad and only if I engage my gain pedal. But it bothers me because whenever I switch pickup between my single coil and humbucker, the single coil is more quiet than the humbucker which kinda distracts me when I'm playing.


Question: Is Ceramic more quiet than Alnico pickups specially with gain pedals?

Ano kaya ang pwede natin na mod for Alnico para mabawasan yung noise/hum/buzz with gain pedal.

Salamat po sa tulong.

Bring your guitar to a luthier and ask him to shield all the cavities and do a star ground. Even humbuckers can benefit from proper shielding.

Check this out for reference.

http://www.mcquain.com/lespaul/StratWiring/Strat_Shielding_Tips.pdf


Also, troubleshoot your entire signal chain to see where exactly the noise is coming from. Start with the guitar directly plugged into the amp and check for noise. Then add components one at a time. The goal is to figure out the specific patch cable or dc power cord or whatever that is causing the noise.
#DigitalHiyaw

Offline titser_marco

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 12:48:34 PM »
You're looking at the wrong place. The noise is clearly caused by your pedal.  All gain pedals will add noise --- the higher the gain the higher the noise floor.

Alnico magnets on their own do not cause noise.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 12:51:51 PM by titser_marco »
I'd rather be sharp than flat.

Offline Skybox

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 03:52:31 PM »
Funny how modern modelers actually have the option to add noise and hum to make things more realistic haha.
#DigitalHiyaw

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 09:17:07 PM »
@Skybox - Thanks po will try the link. Nashield ko na po yung strat may connectivity po I tested with my multimeter. Pati yung sa input jack nashield ko na din po. Will try the Star Ground. Tried to connect the Guitar directly to the amplifier then engaged the dirty channel, same noise po. Im using Planet waves cable yung may on/off switch, I think their shielded inside. I tried 3 cables same result, mas tahimik po yung noiseless single coil compared sa humbucker.

@titser_marco - Yes po, gain pedals or dirty channel of the amp will cause noise. Ang question ko po is kung papano po magreact yung Pickups sa Gain pedals/Noise. 1 lang po kasi yung guitar ko ngayon so hindi ko macompare. I have HSS setup. Yung Single Coil ko po kasi 1st gen. ng noiseless which has Ceramic Magnets and yung bridge ko Stock Fender Humbucker with Alnico Magnets, also tried Dimarzio AT-1 which has alnico 5 magnet. The Noiseless single coil seem to be quiet compared with the humbucker when the gain is engaged.

Is it possible po na dahil High Output yung Humbucker kaya pag ka engage nung gain pedal is Naturally mataas na yung output + gain so more noise compared to low output noiseless?

Any thoughts on who is quiet with high gain the Ceramic or Alnico Magnets?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 09:23:58 PM by yjuangab »
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Offline Skybox

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 07:45:44 AM »
@Skybox - Thanks po will try the link. Nashield ko na po yung strat may connectivity po I tested with my multimeter. Pati yung sa input jack nashield ko na din po. Will try the Star Ground. Tried to connect the Guitar directly to the amplifier then engaged the dirty channel, same noise po. Im using Planet waves cable yung may on/off switch, I think their shielded inside. I tried 3 cables same result, mas tahimik po yung noiseless single coil compared sa humbucker.

The guitar may not be the culprit then. I say get an NS-2 and be done with it.

EDIT:

You mains power might not be properly grounded. I say get it checked by a qualified electrician.

#DigitalHiyaw

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 11:10:28 PM »
The guitar may not be the culprit then. I say get an NS-2 and be done with it.

EDIT:

You mains power might not be properly grounded. I say get it checked by a qualified electrician.

Thank you po sa reply. 2 terminals lang po yung outlet namin. Pero I manually grounded the amp sa lupa mismo with about 1 feet of grounding rod.
By the way po the hum is not over the top I can live with it. Pero it bothers me that the noiseless single coil is more quiet than the humbucker with gain pedal on.

If anyone po, Baka po may same guitar or may guitar kayo na with Noiseless Single Coil and another with Humbucker (Alnico/Ceramic Magnets).
Kung macompare yung Noise with different types of pickup.

Salamat po.
previous deals(shipping):
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Online vhershekinahfaith

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2017, 12:10:34 AM »
Power Supply sir isolated ba?

Offline titser_marco

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 07:45:35 AM »
Noiseless single coils are a more recent tech development than humbuckers, which have been around since the 50s. I am almost certain that noiseless single coil designers have taken note of the traditional humbucker's flaws and adapted their design to minimize or eliminate these. That should account for your question why noiseless SCs being more quiet than an HB.

Additionally, a noiseless SC has a smaller coil footprint and as such the tendency for windings to come loose is lesser than an HB. My suspicion is that the HB may have become more receptive to 60hz hum and other noise sources because of windings that may have come loose (even if they are potted).

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

I'd rather be sharp than flat.

Offline Skybox

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2017, 12:17:14 PM »
Noiseless single coils are a more recent tech development than humbuckers, which have been around since the 50s. I am almost certain that noiseless single coil designers have taken note of the traditional humbucker's flaws and adapted their design to minimize or eliminate these. That should account for your question why noiseless SCs being more quiet than an HB.

Additionally, a noiseless SC has a smaller coil footprint and as such the tendency for windings to come loose is lesser than an HB. My suspicion is that the HB may have become more receptive to 60hz hum and other noise sources because of windings that may have come loose (even if they are potted).

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

Agree. Over time humbuckers become microphonic and need to be wax potted again.
#DigitalHiyaw

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2017, 06:46:44 PM »
Noiseless single coils are a more recent tech development than humbuckers, which have been around since the 50s. I am almost certain that noiseless single coil designers have taken note of the traditional humbucker's flaws and adapted their design to minimize or eliminate these. That should account for your question why noiseless SCs being more quiet than an HB.

Additionally, a noiseless SC has a smaller coil footprint and as such the tendency for windings to come loose is lesser than an HB. My suspicion is that the HB may have become more receptive to 60hz hum and other noise sources because of windings that may have come loose (even if they are potted).

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

May ganong tendencies pala ang Humbucker. 2 pickups na kasi ang natry ko for bridge yung stock fender humbucker and Dimarzio AT-1, I don't know if dalawa talaga na pickups ko ang nakadevelop ng ganong problem.

Recently scanned my old music recorded files, yung Gibson LPJ 2014 model ko meron din ganoong klaseng hum with gain pedals sa amp ko. Maybe ganun talaga yung characteristics ng humbucker, di ko lang matanggap na mas tahimik yung noiseless SC ko kaysa humbucker.hehe

Will try my guitar and pedals with other amp this weekend, baka yung amp ko ang nagcacause ng hum.

*PS yung hum po is nanonotice lang kung naka on lang yung gain pedal. Or even nakadirect saksak ako with my guitar then naka dirty channel yung amp.
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Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2017, 06:49:09 PM »
Power Supply sir isolated ba?

1 spot po gamit ko. Pero sinubukan ko po na distortion lang mag-isa  ang nakasaksak sa 1spot so that counts as good as Isolated pero same hum exist po.
Yung hum po dun lang sa Humbucker noticeable and kung naka On lang ang gain pedal.
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Offline Skybox

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2017, 07:48:08 AM »
1 spot po gamit ko. Pero sinubukan ko po na distortion lang mag-isa  ang nakasaksak sa 1spot so that counts as good as Isolated pero same hum exist po.
Yung hum po dun lang sa Humbucker noticeable and kung naka On lang ang gain pedal.

You won't hear it that much on stage. At least not enough to bug you. Some venues are noisier than others.

Ang mga bedroom guitarist though andaming maliliit na bagay na nadidinig.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 07:51:34 AM by Skybox »
#DigitalHiyaw

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2017, 12:23:32 PM »
I dont play much live na ngayon. And yup wala na masyadong buzz sa live kasi may other sounds na nagcocover sa low volume noise..

I thought nasolve ko na yung question kasi akala ko assymetrical wound yung humbuckers ko kaya di masyado nacacancel yung noise.. Pero i measured each coil ng fender and dimarzio ko.. For fender 8.61k and 8.64.. Then sa dimarzio at-1 8.24k and 8.35k so apmost the same wounds sila. That kills my guess na dahil sa symmetry ng wounds.

I guess sa magnets talaga sya. Normal lang na may buzz/hum kahit sa humbucker kung meron ng gain. To sight an example yung friend ko meron dimarzio evo sa guitar nya. Sa pedals and amp ko super quiet sya like my fender noiseless which has ceramic pups..

Nagorder nga pala ako ng seymour duncan custom trembucker which has ceramic pups but with paf like character medium output.. update ako pagdating and matest ko na po..

Baka po meron kayong experience about alnico vs ceramic humbucker kung sino yung mas quiet..
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 08:41:59 PM by yjuangab »
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Offline titser_marco

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2017, 11:02:02 PM »
Those are super high output humbuckers if each coil measured 8k each. A standard PAF runs around 7-8k for BOTH coils. Unless you measured it wrongly of course.

The differences in resistance readings you saw will barely make a difference in hum cancelling ability. Could you check as well if the ground wire is connected to either the HB cover or the baseplate? If disconnected, you're effectively removing the pickup's shielding.

I still am not convinced that magnets are the cause of the noise here. Unless you swap out the actual magnets in the pickup in question and find that there is indeed a difference, I won't hold my breath.

I dont play much live na ngayon. And yup wala na masyadong buzz sa live kasi may other sounds na nagcocover sa low volume noise..

I thought nasolve ko na yung question kasi akala ko assymetrical wound yung humbuckers ko kaya di masyado nacacancel yung noise.. Pero i measured each coil ng fender and dimarzio ko.. For fender 8.61k and 8.64.. Then sa dimarzio at-1 8.24k and 8.35k so apmost the same wounds sila. That kills my guess na dahil sa symmetry ng wounds.

I guess sa magnets talaga sya. Normal lang na may buzz/hum kahit sa humbucker kung meron ng gain. To sight an example yung friend ko meron dimarzio evo sa guitar nya. Sa pedals and amp ko super quiet sya like my fender noiseless which has ceramic pups..

Nagorder nga pala ako ng seymour duncan custom trembucker which has ceramic pups but with paf like character medium output.. update ako pagdating and matest ko na po..

Baka po meron kayong experience about alnico vs ceramic humbucker kung sino yung mas quiet..

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 11:07:27 PM by titser_marco »
I'd rather be sharp than flat.

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2017, 12:16:02 AM »
Those are super high output humbuckers if each coil measured 8k each. A standard PAF runs around 7-8k for BOTH coils. Unless you measured it wrongly of course.

The differences in resistance readings you saw will barely make a difference in hum cancelling ability. Could you check as well if the ground wire is connected to either the HB cover or the baseplate? If disconnected, you're effectively removing the pickup's shielding.

I still am not convinced that magnets are the cause of the noise here. Unless you swap out the actual magnets in the pickup in question and find that there is indeed a difference, I won't hold my breath.

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

Meron po connection sa base plate yung ground. The buzz/hum becomes audible with gain engaged, pag clean po wala naman pong hum na maririnig or kung meron man very very very minimal. I think kung wala pong ground magiging obvious yung hum even sa clean channel.

About naman po sa symmetry, nabasa ko lang rin po sa ibang forums. According sa kanila, ang humbucker is two coils wound out of phase to cancel the noise. Kung unbalanced yung coils sa humbucker meaning hindi perfect yung cancellation ng noise therefore may mga noises na makakalusot sa signal. Pero yun na nga I should eliminate this theory kasi balanced winding yung mga pickups ko pero it still buzz/hum with medium to high gain.

Sa pagmeasure naman po I'm pretty sure its correct basing sa figures ng Dimarzio.com yung At-1 is 16.50K sa website and yung reading ko po total is 16.59K which is pretty close (there is still +/- consideration).

My Fender Noiseless Single Coil Pickups read 10K.

Based na rin sa natanungan ko and na try ko na guitars with humbucker, I think normal yung may na-aadd na noise when GAIN is engaged and yung pinakatahimik na natry ko is Dimarzio EVO which happens to have Ceramic Magnets. And yung Dimarzio EVO adds no buzz/hum kahit na on pa lahat ng gain pedals ko.

I'm trying to look for a humbucker that is as quiet as my Fender Noiseless single coil but has a PAF like sound (Vintage not too aggresive). Yung EVO kasi is too harsh for me considering I have single coils on neck and middle.

That's why I ordered Seymour Duncan Custom Trembucker TB-5, according sa description nila its a PAF design with medium output(14k) but has Ceramic Magnets. Pero matagal pa darating pero I will update kung noiseless nga ba ang Ceramic or mali nanaman ako sa theory ko. Hehe

Salamat nga po pala sa mga sumasagot.   :wave:

Any Experience po sa mga said pickups? Or baka meron pong forumites natin ang nakatry magcompare sa Alnico Vs Ceramic. Salamat :mrgreen:
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Offline curiousdcat

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 06:54:47 AM »
Pickups, even humbuckers, will have noise regardless of magnet used in my experience. The higher the pickup's output, the more likely mas malakas yung ingay. Add gain, mas lalo pang lalakas. I have Kinman single-coils and Sheptone humbuckers which use Alnico and the single-coils are quieter (almost noise-free) compared to the humbuckers when using the same amp and cables at maximun amp gain with the same EQ settings.

I haven't tried DiMarzio EVOs so I really would not know kung inherent yung noise nya. I think it would be best to compare it with or ask other EVO users if they experience the same amount of noise that you do. If not, then the noise problem could be isolated sa end mo lang. Kung ganun nga and as mentioned above, the noise will either be caused by your home's electricals, your pedals, your cables, your guitar's wring and shielding or your specific (most likely defective/damaged or the lemon in its batch) pickups.

If the noise is lessened or disappears with your new pickups (congrats!  :-D), keep in mind that the probable cause for the lower noise is the lowering of pickup output and not the type of magnet it has. The use and choice for Alnico vs Ceramic magnets for me are purely for tonal purposes only.

Offline yjuangab

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 09:39:03 AM »
Pickups, even humbuckers, will have noise regardless of magnet used in my experience. The higher the pickup's output, the more likely mas malakas yung ingay. Add gain, mas lalo pang lalakas. I have Kinman single-coils and Sheptone humbuckers which use Alnico and the single-coils are quieter (almost noise-free) compared to the humbuckers when using the same amp and cables at maximun amp gain with the same EQ settings.

I haven't tried DiMarzio EVOs so I really would not know kung inherent yung noise nya. I think it would be best to compare it with or ask other EVO users if they experience the same amount of noise that you do. If not, then the noise problem could be isolated sa end mo lang. Kung ganun nga and as mentioned above, the noise will either be caused by your home's electricals, your pedals, your cables, your guitar's wring and shielding or your specific (most likely defective/damaged or the lemon in its batch) pickups.

If the noise is lessened or disappears with your new pickups (congrats!  :-D), keep in mind that the probable cause for the lower noise is the lowering of pickup output and not the type of magnet it has. The use and choice for Alnico vs Ceramic magnets for me are purely for tonal purposes only.

Isa rin po sa kinoconsider ko is yung low output humbucker pickups dahil sa low output sya so kung mag-aadd ako ng gain hindi gaanong drastic ang effect so resulting to low noise. Pero considering yung Dimarzio EVO to be high output pero mas quiet sya sa mga humbucker na natry ko, kaya nagreresearch pa ako about sa low output.
Yung PAF style low output daw especially sa Dimarzio uses unbalanced or assymetrical wounding so that worries me that they won't be quiet with Gain.

I don't know if coincidence lang ba talaga na lahat ng quiet pickups na natry ko has Ceramic Magnets. Just to set example, sa single coil sized humbuckers naman I had tried Dimarzio HS2, Dimarzio Virtual Vintage, Seymour Duncan Stk-s9b, all have alnico magnet. But I can still recall that they cause noise only with Gain, kapag clean naman walang noticeable noise.
Maghahanap ako ng Low output Pickups tingnan ko kung magiging kasing tahimik sya ng single coils ko. I will post update po.

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Re: Question About Guitar Noise with Gain Pedals...
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 10:35:52 AM »
You won't hear it that much on stage. At least not enough to bug you. Some venues are noisier than others.

Ang mga bedroom guitarist though andaming maliliit na bagay na nadidinig.


sobrang +1 hahahaha that hum will most probably be drowned by chatter of people in the venue.
hahaha ako binibiyak ko muna yung wetpaks para makita kung may yellow thingy hahahaha