The Magical 2% of Electric Solid Body Guitars

[abyssinianson]

A bit off topic but I would be interested in your opinion about Acoustic Guitars Firemodel55
. 

If it doesn't "hiyaw" - word on the street is he won't play it, buy it, or name drop about it.

Not sure why the 2% magical resonance stuff is worth fretting over when most people should be worried less about the 2% they may statistically never have rather than spend time finding an instrument that works for you, and then actually learning to play the thing and make music with it. I mean, seriously, say you have access to that <2%..then what?

[treblinkalovescene]

Look, as much as I'm a person of science, you're going to have to parse what FM55 means when he establishes a claim instead of taking it at face value. The figures here are obviously not precise, but he's trying to communicate how far (in his experience) the gap between a "magical" guitar is from a dud, and how often it comes up in a production run. It's a conversation, not a journal, so idk maybe we're being a bit too pedantic here. We're already dealing with superlative claims as is.

Now, just try to contextualize it this way, FM55 is literally the guitar gear equivalent of an audiophile. While YMMV, I can guarantee you that he's not just trying to blow smoke up your ass. At the very least, most of us were invited to his house at some point or another just to hear the difference for ourselves. Sorry, by the way Alex. Never got the schedules to work!

If you could make the trip over to his house sometime, try bringing a guitar you think sounds good, and compare it to his roster of guitars. I'm sure you may not 100% agree with his statements, but having access to that much high-end gear at one time might be an experience all its own.

[firemodel55]

If it doesn't "hiyaw" - word on the street is he won't play it, buy it, or name drop about it.

Not sure why the 2% magical resonance stuff is worth fretting over when most people should be worried less about the 2% they may statistically never have rather than spend time finding an instrument that works for you, and then actually learning to play the thing and make music with it. I mean, seriously, say you have access to that <2%..then what?

Since I have access to that 2%, I don't need to sell them EVER... unless an act of god should force me to.  Surprisingly, that 2% works for everybody.

[firemodel55]

I concur.  If the 2% comes from the inputs of the living legends like Clapton..etc., then case closed.

Di ba namili rin si Claption?  Simple lang, may Claption signature ang Fender right?  Sa tingin mo lahat pareho at maganda ang tunog?  Sasabihin ko na sa iyo that among the Clapton Models both Custom Shop and the standard stuff-- maraming dog at ubod ng kaunti lang ang magaganda.

So two possibilities lang:

1) Either bingi si Clapton dahil hindi niya naririnig ang pagkakaiba OR
2) Alam niya na malaking variation mula maganda hangang panget pero mas importante sa kanya perahan kayo kaysa sabihin na 1-5% lang ng signature guitars ko ay maganda

So, credible pa ba si Clapton sa iyo?

[analog.matt]

My data is acquired from experience and exposure.  Thats why I say, I will tell you when try 100 Made in USA Fenders.  In the meantime, I am short cutting the process for you. 

I have to give you a ball park figure for magical guitars right?  As I said, for Fenders its 5% for me.  John and Paul have lower estimates.  On the extreme is Gibson with about 1% and the other extreme is Suhr at around 10% -- yes I am surprised by Suhr because they seem to be getting their numbers up.

I once sat down with all the employees in one of the popular guitar stores in Melbourne CBD.  It was a slow day for them and I was free and I knew all of them. It was a modern guitar store.

after the conversation warmed up, I asked them point blank:  lets get serious now. I know you are all working musicians. you play when you're not here and you've been working at this store for many many years. we all know by this time in our lives
what a good Les Paul sounds like. So let me ask you this. how many Les Pauls have gone through your hands that sounds close to the real deal, or close to what we hear in the famous records we love and cherish?
don't lie to me. we're just the only ones here. no customers. you know what im talking about: the bloom, the chirp, the dual tone blah blah blah, you know what I'm talking about.

then one of them answered: I've been working here for more than 8 years. none of the modern les pauls. and I've handled a lot of special orders from the Gibson Custom Shop. the really high end ones.
the ones you have to wait for quite some time before they arrive. from all those orders I had made,  there was only ONE that passed through our hands. it was really gorgeous. and it sounded like what a les paul should sound like.
when you hear it. you'll know right away that IT IS A LES PAUL. no questions.   and all the sales men nodded. the guy then said, ask these guys, there were there too. they got to play it.

so i tried to make sure I heard him correctly and asked: so that's the only one? only one? nothing after?

he said. "nothing"

so I joked, "whoever that guy is, he's one lucky guy then"

they all reacted, "well hell yeah! when you hear that les paul, you'll know "its the one"

If it doesn't "hiyaw" - word on the street is he won't play it, buy it, or name drop about it.

Not sure why the 2% magical resonance stuff is worth fretting over when most people should be worried less about the 2% they may statistically never have rather than spend time finding an instrument that works for you, and then actually learning to play the thing and make music with it. I mean, seriously, say you have access to that <2%..then what?

the reality is, music can be enjoyed at any level. its just that the quality we want to have depends on us -- nasa atin to set our priorities and set where to tow the line.

accepting the truth will set us free.

[queer_rocker]

The Magical 2% of Electric Solid Body Guitars?

My PRS included.




lock thread please 

[pallas]

I once sat down with all the employees in one of the popular guitar stores in Melbourne CBD.  It was a slow day for them and I was free and I knew all of them. It was a modern guitar store.

after the conversation warmed up, I asked them point blank:  lets get serious now. I know you are all working musicians. you play when you're not here and you've been working at this store for many many years. we all know by this time in our lives
what a good Les Paul sounds like. So let me ask you this. how many Les Pauls have gone through your hands that sounds close to the real deal, or close to what we hear in the famous records we love and cherish?
don't lie to me. we're just the only ones here. no customers. you know what im talking about: the bloom, the chirp, the dual tone blah blah blah, you know what I'm talking about.

then one of them answered: I've been working here for more than 8 years. none of the modern les pauls. and I've handled a lot of special orders from the Gibson Custom Shop. the really high end ones.
the ones you have to wait for quite some time before they arrive. from all those orders I had made,  there was only ONE that passed through our hands. it was really gorgeous. and it sounded like what a les paul should sound like.
when you hear it. you'll know right away that IT IS A LES PAUL. no questions.   and all the sales men nodded. the guy then said, ask these guys, there were there too. they got to play it.

so i tried to make sure I heard him correctly and asked: so that's the only one? only one? nothing after?

he said. "nothing"

so I joked, "whoever that guy is, he's one lucky guy then"

they all reacted, "well hell yeah! when you hear that les paul, you'll know "its the one"

the reality is, music can be enjoyed at any level. its just that the quality we want to have depends on us -- nasa atin to set our priorities and set where to tow the line.

accepting the truth will set us free.

Music can be enjoyed at any level.

Let that sink in, digest it.

Since the dawn of man sounds enchanted, visions honored in sonic ritual chants, strings resonated, sonatas were composed and not a custom shop in sight.

[analog.matt]

Music can be enjoyed at any level.

.

as long naman as we're honest with ourselves, appreciate our blessings, everything should be okay. as long as we're humble, a spade will be seen as a spade imho.

[pansit_habhab]

I'm so curious to see/hear how this gentleman plays the guitar, he knows so much about tone and guitars so I assume he knows how to produce magical sounding tunes using 40 unicorn guitars

Thats not marketing...I was talking to PRS' production manager and was telling him off about how above average the solid body sounds and telling him that I lament that there was rarely a magical guitar.  I was pointing out that I found this pre-1993 killer sounding Custom 24.  I thought he did not understand.  He told me that he does and he has been with the current factory since it opened.

According to him, solid body production is so down pat because of Paul's tweaks to the manufacturing process.  They can guarantee about 95% of all guitars to be above average sounding guitars and a few duds.  But they would not sacrifice 99 production guitars to be below average to produce just one killer sounding guitar.

As a sign that he understood, he compared it to where PRS acoustic production is.  Since its relatively new for PRS to produce acoustic guitars, everytime they just rolled off the line a beautiful /exceptionally magical PRS acoustic, Paul would have the line stopped and have everybody come over to examine that specific guitar.

By the way, I have no marketing strategy because my GUITARS are NOT FOR SALE.  The last time I had a fire sale was back in the mid 1990s.  Though on occasion, I have been tempted -- offered to be purchased -- by friends; I promptly bought back my guitars.  Out of my 40 USA MADE GUITARS, I only have one PRS.

I have about 5 Jacksons, 6 Gibsons, 3 Bakers, 4 Music Men, 6 Fenders, 1 BC Rich, 3 Suhrs, 1 Asher, 1 Mike Lull,  1 Washburn N4, 1 EVH, 1 McGuire,  etc.  All Made in the USA.  Basically, I have no favorites to promote.

What I do have to promote in contrast to so called advertising by guitar manufacturers IS that they produce more bad sounding guitars than good sounding ones.  So as guitar buyers, be aware AND try at least 50-100 of the same guitar model.  For example, my Ernie Ball JP15 which I bought last year in Tokyo, was so much of an effort to choose.
I actually had to go around at least 10 guitar shops in Tokyo and try out around 30 Ernie Ball John Petrucci guitars ALL MADE IN THE USA to pick the best one.  Buti na lang mayaman ang Tokyo dahil kaya nila magparating nga maraming inventory ng bawat modelo ng gitara.

Pati Washburn N4, pinagpilian ko ay anim in the same store!!! 2 standard, 2 vintage at 2 authentic na lahat alder.  Tapos may dalawang pang ash body na N4.  So thats a total of 8 guitars in one session.

[pansit_habhab]

Yung "ganda ng tunog" is so subjective, yung masarap na pagkain sayo can't taste [gooey brown stuff] sa akin. Hindi lahat ng gitarista gives a flying F na "magical" ang tunog nung gitara, nalimutan niyo ata i-factor ang FEEL NUNG GITARA. Marami akong kaibigan na gitarista ng mga bandang may multi milyones na streams sa spotify na ang definition ng "unicorn" na gitara eh yung maganda ang tone AND FEEL para sa kanila (pero nung tinesting ko at pinakinggan ko, hindi maganda para sa akin)

Nawala na ako sa trail of thought ko. Who cares, 6 years ago na naman tong post na to. Gusto ko lang magcomment kasi it's been years since I've access philmusic forums hahahaa!

I think Matt's point is that its as simple as listening and trying more than 100 made in the USA Fenders.  Walang formula na kailangan --- kasi naghahanap ka ng forumla.

Maski na ba may data silang ipakita sa table, hindi ka naman rin maniniwala dahil hindi ka pa naka subok ng higit sa isang daan na USA made Fender Stratocaster.  I really don't expect you to do that though if you have the time and money; its a worthwhile experience.

So, at this point, you just have to take it from the experts or from those who are more 'exposed'.  I am NOT saying that you should buy a Silver sky. 

What I am SAYING is that dapat maging mas mainggat kayo bumili ng electric guitars kasi 98% ng makikita niyo ay panget ang tunog.