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Author Topic: Guitarists' view on Emo music  (Read 71945 times)

Offline paengkee

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #325 on: February 11, 2008, 09:35:27 PM »
"and perhaps twisted sister because of the girly name? i'd pick cinderalla any time over any emo band."

that was my opinion. you cant touch it. and neither can i towards you.


"thing is, they both suck in those categories. you know why? because they have become irrelevant. good music stay relevant, e.g. ozzy's crazy train, megadeth's holy wars."

yeah. thats because they arent as easily digested as ozzy or megadeth. try listening to a band like the apoplexy twist orchestra or orchid. just give it a try. because the way i see it, youre hating on the wrong thing. even someone whos not that into metal such as me, knows and listens (and occationally plays) crazy train and holy wars.

just give these guys a listen before you go on dissing what emo WAS.

http://www.myspace.com/pageninetynine 

if you dont like it, then its ok. im not forcing you to like it. i just can take people like you dissing something they dont even know about.

"deftones is not metal."
i said "nu metal" with quotes.

"but they're probably one of the new non-metal dudes i listen to... fave song: 7 words."

yep.


"so lamb of god and children of bodom are pussies?"
compared to protector, krisiun and slayer? totally. slayer = bada$$

"back then = past

emo sucks, be it "back then" or now."

how can you say something sucks when you obviously dont know what it was.

"it's probably partly because we don't eat it here too often. emo music has been flooding the airwaves, people still don't get used to it...can't stand it still. it's not even like people got tired of it, they sucked right from the beginning."

the music thats flooding the airwaves isnt emo at all.

"emo was = past."
yep

"try defending emo now, not the past."
im not. i wont. why? because "emo" now isnt actually the emo thats i would defend. you keep telling me that emo sucked in the past too. well what bands have you heard to make you think that?

"and try explaining why people can't discuss emo now, and not discuss their fashion. because that is very indicative how sucky ass the "music" is."

it is also very indicative how close-minded some people are. i admit i keep my mind closed on what the general consensus labels as "emo" because i know what it was and what it should sound like. and what the mindset is like. and why they played the music.

Offline markv

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #326 on: February 11, 2008, 09:48:59 PM »
parang debate ng relihiyon ito...

bigat pala ng word na 'EMO'

tsk tsk tsk..

Offline paengkee

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #327 on: February 11, 2008, 09:58:37 PM »
parang debate ng relihiyon ito...

bigat pala ng word na 'EMO'

tsk tsk tsk..

^^ not really. the feeling is more like the feeling metalheads got when nu metal came about entering the mainstream tainting what metal was about. the purists hated that. same goes for now. same sht different day.

Offline pr3ach2all

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #328 on: February 11, 2008, 10:10:16 PM »
"try defending emo now, not the past."
im not. i wont. why? because "emo" now isnt actually the emo thats i would defend. you keep telling me that emo sucked in the past too. well what bands have you heard to make you think that?

was suppose  say something like that but then since i'm no expert in old school emo then i have not much things to support that arguement.

OT: is at the drive-in considered emo?

Offline xavier

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #329 on: February 11, 2008, 10:26:29 PM »
^^ not really. the feeling is more like the feeling metalheads got when nu metal came about entering the mainstream tainting what metal was about. the purists hated that. same goes for now. same sht different day.

i agree to this one, kahit sino yatang kakilala ko nararamdaman to, some of my hiphop friends hate soulja boy, some don't. i like old rock, some of my friends don't. ganun lang naman. the feeling is a drive to defend what you believe in. or i'm just kooky.

anyway, maganda naman ang debate.  :-D


Offline markv

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #330 on: February 11, 2008, 10:29:33 PM »

Offline paengkee

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #331 on: February 11, 2008, 10:54:53 PM »
was suppose  say something like that but then since i'm no expert in old school emo then i have not much things to support that arguement.

OT: is at the drive-in considered emo?

not by definition. they were awesome tho. mars vs sparta, sparta ako :D

Offline jackyboy

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #332 on: February 11, 2008, 11:42:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nRNYG_xM2U
hahahahaha :lol: that was a good one!!!!

peace lang mga bros. lets just respect one's opinion. besides, music itself is already opinionated in the beginning, so share2x lang tayo ha. hehe.

as for me, ok lang ang emo. i went through emo stage when i was still studying in college. ngayon, iba naman trip ko. metal at blues na. hehe.

Offline fretburner

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #333 on: February 12, 2008, 04:02:12 AM »
i just had to butt in

crazy train and holy wars relevant today? *lol*

yes, they are relevant. look around you. open your ears.

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ok, for the sake of argument, they are not bad songs (a bit cheesy with the lyrics), but i certainly wouldn't write anything like that in this day and age... and they are what i call "beginner metal" songs... the kind of metal that would impress you when you are still new to the genre. again, im not saying they are bad songs... its just, mr. crowley (although honestly, i like ozzy a lot better with sabbath) and hangar 18 are better examples coming from those bands.

relevance is quite different from preference or popularity or whatever.

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and yes, children of bodom and lamb of god just dont hold a candle to a band like slayer. i dont care how much kerry king's solos are off key and stuff, but these "chops heavy, so-called-metal" bands nowadays just dont do the E scale right.

you got to be kidding me.

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you listen to them and still call yourself metal? Ok, so maybe you are because those bands still have more 'metal' in them than anything else... but just because one thing is metal, doesnt mean its good. any genre of music whether underground, unsigned or mainstream are bound to have crap representatives to their name.

so ozzy and megadeth are crap? you are going nowhere. give it up.

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listen to monstrosity, suffocation, terrorizer, cannibal corpse (i only like one album, the Bleeding), deicide, krisiun, necrophagist - cmon, you know these bands too man!

you are looking at death/black metal here.

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... and then listen to lamb of god and children of bodom (so ok, children of bodom have the chops... but they are like pop cradle of filth to me - as if COF wasnt pop enough already ... and the only good thing with lamb of god is that i saw their bassist using Warwick).

again, different genre, all under the "metal" umbrella.

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im a big fan of metal myself, but lets not close in other forms of music... so metal has the riffs... but emo whether past or present definitely have the lyrics.

i listen just about anything i can listen to. i listen to bb king and srv. i worship pat metheney. i'm crazy about chet atkins.

emo is plain crap.

lyrics? i could write their lyrics myself. could u have written "children of the grave"?

and you say dave mustaine was cheesy with "holy wars"? you got to be kidding me. emo has cheese written all over. emo has more cheese than france and wisconsin.

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for the record i hated kupaw metal more than pop emo. the latter just smeared the name of metal... mall emo, i couldnt care less...

"rapmetal" is NOT metal. emo is emo. crap is crap.




« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 04:03:54 AM by fretburner »
"We all come in from the cold
We come down from the wire
'Nd everybody warms themselves to a different fire..."

Offline fretburner

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #334 on: February 12, 2008, 04:19:06 AM »


that was my opinion. you cant touch it. and neither can i towards you.

IMO, and to quote millions, "emo is the new gay"


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yeah. thats because they arent as easily digested as ozzy or megadeth. try listening to a band like the apoplexy twist orchestra or orchid. just give it a try. because the way i see it, youre hating on the wrong thing. even someone whos not that into metal such as me, knows and listens (and occationally plays) crazy train and holy wars.

just like the other guy, relevance doesn't equate to accessability.

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just give these guys a listen before you go on dissing what emo WAS.


always about the past.

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"so lamb of god and children of bodom are pussies?"
compared to protector, krisiun and slayer? totally. slayer = bada$$

you were comparing cinderalla with emo...you are comparing slayer with bodom and lamb of god which are in the same category.

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emo sucks, be it "back then" or now."

how can you say something sucks when you obviously dont know what it was.

the music thats flooding the airwaves isnt emo at all.

im not. i wont. why? because "emo" now isnt actually the emo thats i would defend. you keep telling me that emo sucked in the past too. well what bands have you heard to make you think that?

again, past past past.

compare that to metal then, and metal now. there's continuity. metal isn't destined to die, unlike emo.

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it is also very indicative how close-minded some people are. i admit i keep my mind closed on what the general consensus labels as "emo" because i know what it was and what it should sound like. and what the mindset is like. and why they played the music.

you don't seem to comprehend that music evolves. for example, led zeppelin was metal back then...then sabbath came, and they became the "standard" for metal...and then you have maiden...and then metallica and megadeth...slayer... and now, bodom and lamb of god... nobody is complaining. you yourself couldn't fathom the emo guys right now. can you go up stage and go "ladies and gentlemen, we are the 'real' emo, emo from the past... so don't call the next dude emo, because they are not". you will still be emo, like the rest of the guys now. at least with hupaw-hupaw, they had "rap" attached to "metal" which they later chanced to "rapcore", because they finally understood. do you see people changing the emo "now", to maybe "nu emo"? i don't think so.




« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 05:12:44 AM by fretburner »
"We all come in from the cold
We come down from the wire
'Nd everybody warms themselves to a different fire..."

Offline paquitz

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #335 on: February 12, 2008, 05:08:23 AM »
Bigat ng diskusyon dito.

OT
Parang medyo tinamaan lang ako that Ciderella sucks. I'm not sure if you're referring to the Glam band before. Kasi dun sa era na yun ako lumaki. At kinahiya ko din yung mga yun dati. Pero ngayon I can say that I grew up with GNR, Skid Row, Poison etc. at yung Cinderella na Glam rock. Hehehe. Music is music for me. Rock N' Roll

Offline chromeknive

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #336 on: February 12, 2008, 09:35:42 AM »
for me lamb of god doesnt need to try to compare to slayer.
think about this : if you were lamb of god, would you try to do better what slayer already did or do you try to carve out your own sound?

i think that's what the new metal (not nu metal) bands are trying to do nowadays. push the envelope, carry-on the metal tradition but at the same time distancing themselves from the legacies of the old guard. diba? so i really think comparing music from before to now really doesn't show us anything because what's been done before is what new artists should be avoiding in the first place. (yeah! trivium sucks though! haha)

man, don't diss lamb of god just 'cos they're not into death and gorefests. haha. you can be aggressive without being demonic or obsessed with blood and guts. haha...i'm personally not a fan of the (for me, really quite redundant) death/gore/guts/demonic bands. i like a little more variety in topics and images  :lol:

or maybe im a pussy too  :lol:

yeah deftones are not metal. the deftones try to do things that haven't been done before. chino moreno has been trying to pull them away from metal since white pony. and as for stef, i like how his riffs are heavy and dissonant but are without metal riff cliches, cliche palm mutes and he has a modern groove sensibility. (uy pwedeng pangalan ng trance/house artist)

sparta also!

as for "new pseudo-emo" / "mall emo" , all the things we hate about it are its prerequisites. so however the argument goes here, let's just all hate "new pseudo-mo" with a vengeance and carry on trying to make music that is quite frankly, not "mall emo".

mall emo...we respect it (fine!) but hate it. carry on, folks!


« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 10:10:09 AM by chromeknive »

Offline rad_12

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #337 on: February 12, 2008, 10:36:59 AM »
gear ng mga emo +1
yung player ewan ko lang
music sometimes pero honestly guys may ibang emo bands na sinadyang out of tune yung tunog ewan ko parang gnun eh.
vocals? (itali na yan!!) hahahaha :-D :evil:
fashion statement hindi ko maintindihan kung ano sila sa lupa eh punk ba sila? or goth sometimes?

Offline paengkee

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #338 on: February 12, 2008, 10:57:31 AM »
fretburner: i do not consider any band that you label emo as emo. enough said. the rest are just opinion. or fact based thoughts that you and i have been throwing around. oh well lets call it a day. ill admit we arent going anywhere with this. were starting to go below the belt na. if hating emo gives you a sense of personal satisfaction, then so be it. wag lang umabot sa personalan. i think mejo naging halata that i have an aversion to hair metal. but i dont hate it. haha. never liked some of the bands. maybe not yet.

i wonder what genre is next on the chopping board for mtv?



chromeknive: "so i really think comparing music from before to now really doesn't show us anything because what's been done before is what new artists should be avoiding in the first place."

i can actually say that "emo" now and emo then are two totally DIFFERENT genres. ang layo na. one of the names have to go and most of the bands i knew from that era actually hate the term emo now. their fans refer to them as skram now to avoid the obvious confusion going on. i just used the term 90s emo so as to stay relevant.

as a guitarist napansin ko mas metal oriented na ang riffs ng modern emo. mga iba nga ala swedish death metal na. "chug chug tenenenen" et al. without the overall mood. and the singing. i think hair metal without vibrato and a cold (as much as i dont like hair metal. ang ganda ng mga boses nila. the style turns me off) lyrics? well instead of singing about sex they sing about not getting any. HAHA. 

i like manowar tho.


imo this thread is just a big "kick me" sign to modern emo. i came into this thread seeing all bashers on the genre. almost like putting emo on a rope and making it a pinata. i could care less about modern emo. no way am i lifting a finger for those whiny arse bands. the bad thing is, i knew what it was and i saw that it was good. i just want to make it clear that it wasnt gay, that it wasnt cheesy. and most of all, it wast commercialized. i also noticed that most emo kids today are turning into this:


"when kids get bored of just being “emo,” they tend to migrate toward something more chaotic. this is where the brootal character comes in. almost like parasites, they move from one scene to another, draining all originality from that genre before moving onto the next.

not sophisticated enough to understand technical metal, and too much of a pansy to hang with the death metal crowd, he hangs with the rest of the brootal kids. as a collective, they have no idea where they are headed. they listen to brootal music not because they have an appreciation or understanding of it, but because it is practically unlistenable.

he works on grindcore logos in his notebook all day long, as he aspires to one day design band merch. to show the world his poetic side, he renames himself using alliteration- davey deathkill or stevey suicide, for example.

much like the mindless music they listen to, one brootal kid is hard to differentiate from another due to the swarm of white belts and out of control hair."
http://yourscenesucks.com

its satirical. but there is some truth to it. the emo kids are turning METAL. oh no.

metalheads, dont you just hate that?



"ok sana emo kaso daming nag eemo-emohan e. feel na feel, one side buhok tapos wala naman palang alam. nangyari na dati yun d2 sa pinas, nung 97 umusbong ulet mga punks, pero dami na naman mga boploks na di naman naiintindihan ang prinsipyo ng punks, ang nagcla-claim na punks sila. bumaho tuloy. gaya ngaun bumaho na emo dahil sa mga emongers orcers..."

oh diba? pati punk purists naakagat na rin ng mtv noon.

Offline joopabs

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #339 on: February 12, 2008, 11:12:45 AM »
I think some guitarists view emo as lame because of it's "mainstream"-ness. I don't know most about you guys, but from what I've observed with musicians who I got to know, parang madaling mawala sa kanila un novelty ng isang song or genre when it goes mainstream. Parang nakakawalang-gana na daw pag sobrang sikat - up to a point that even certain group (stereotype mainstream listeners who don't know or care much about music) of people already know the song. Don't get me wrong, I listen to and like emo, but It's not the type of music I would play during gigs. My 2 cents.

Offline chromeknive

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #340 on: February 12, 2008, 11:33:47 AM »
man. wala akong scene sa yourscenesucks.

nasa ano ako e,

"you grew up with nirvana and guns n roses, moved on to the more sophisticated oasis, discovered the deftones, discovered metal and the cocteau twins. you cannot play metal guitar or shred to save your life. you think paul weller, noel gallagher, maynard james keenan, chino moreno, elizabeth fraser and mike patton are cool. you think the dillinger escape plan and protest the hero are cool. you look and dress like herbert bautista (vice mayor version)."

gawa tayo ng thread na "CREATE YOUR OWN SUCKY SCENE" !

Offline IncX

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #341 on: February 12, 2008, 12:51:04 PM »
yes, they are relevant. look around you. open your ears.

relevance is quite different from preference or popularity or whatever.

you got to be kidding me.

so ozzy and megadeth are crap? you are going nowhere. give it up.

you are looking at death/black metal here.

again, different genre, all under the "metal" umbrella.

i listen just about anything i can listen to. i listen to bb king and srv. i worship pat metheney. i'm crazy about chet atkins.

emo is plain crap.

lyrics? i could write their lyrics myself. could u have written "children of the grave"?

and you say dave mustaine was cheesy with "holy wars"? you got to be kidding me. emo has cheese written all over. emo has more cheese than france and wisconsin.

"rapmetal" is NOT metal. emo is emo. crap is crap.


i dont wanna chop your posts like you did with mine, and just give you one come back:

wow... you have such a sophisticated taste in music! thats just so cool! there's nothing gay in you at all! you listen to what a real man listens to!

-*-

and for the record, yes, i could write a lyric like children of the grave ... i also believe Francis M. and Rivermaya wrote lyrics to the tone of that "kabataan ang pag-asa ng bayan." if you are gonna ask me to write, be prepared to pay me cause i surely as hell dont wanna write lyrics like that with nothing in return.

-*-

can't you cite better examples than mainstream metal? ... i play mainstream metal for my 14 year old cousins cause i know its easy to digest. i mean, if you are gonna bash emo as gay, then we might as well get macho right? ... after all, you are the type of guy who hates "gay" music, so im just showing you what testosterone music is like, dont go ragging off that "but they are a different branch of metal!! not counted!"

and *lol* Led Zep... considered 'metal' in the past? *lol*  we might as well consider Little Richard metal as well... i mean he pounded E-minor on the keyboard right? *lol*

-*-

finally, yes you do need to "quote the millions" ... cause you are nothing but a mainstream kid who is in this illussion that he is unique.

-*-

think for yourself. stop believing what is popular. stop incorporating the belief of other individuals and call it your own...

Offline jamesroy

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #342 on: February 12, 2008, 01:00:11 PM »
halos naman ng nagiging mainstream nagiging baduy sa karamihan. maganda sa una.pag tumagal na at laging naririnig pumapangit na.

para sa akin I consider all genre to be emo. kasi emotional naman kasi diba ang paggawa ng songs? lahat ng song with emotions right? may kanya kanyang trip lang kasi tayo kaya madalas yung ibang genre na di mo madalas pakinggan nagiging baduy sa inyo.yung iba naman naiinggit lang kasi daming sikat na mga ganung banda ngayon.

dami lang talagang gayagaya na pilit na ginagawang katawatawa ang emo.yung mga iniiipit yung boses at gayagaya din sa porma hehehe

pano pala maging gay ang music? ano ang basis?


Offline paengkee

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #343 on: February 12, 2008, 01:04:55 PM »
^^^ ive heard bands with gay members that sound more manly than anything with straight guys in them.

Botch
Gay for johnny depp
limp wrist

they can all kick your arse... or spank it.

Offline joopabs

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #344 on: February 12, 2008, 01:49:47 PM »
^^^ ive heard bands with gay members that sound more manly than anything with straight guys in them.

Botch
Gay for johnny depp
limp wrist

they can all kick your arse... or spank it.

Even Rob Halford (Judas Priest) admitted he was gay. But Judas Priest is kick@ss!

Offline rad_12

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #345 on: February 12, 2008, 03:18:56 PM »
pero ibang klase yung mga emo na mga bata pagkalat-kalat na sila sa mga lansangan. meron silang place sa may malate grabe dami ni yung isang street dun halos sa kanila na lang. tama din yung iba dito pagtugtugin mo naman ng instrumento walang alam pero emo daw sila...hahahahaha.... :evil: tapos feeling pa nila magaling na sila. meron akong nameet na emo nakita akong mag-gitara. sabi ba naman sa'kin makaluma daw ako kasi ginagawa ko mga lead parts daw. tanungin ko nga si mokong kung marunong siyang mag-scale. eto sabi niya "ano yun? ".....natawa na lang ako sa kanya sa isip ko...hindi pa naman ako ganun kasama para tawanan ng harap-harapan yung tao... :-D :-D

pero bakit nga ganun sila todo porma?.....sabi nga ng kapatid ko wag mo na lang silang pansinin trip nila yun eh....iniisip ko tuloy kaya siguro hirap na makapasok yung mga ibang genre sa scene dito sa atin kasi dahil sa kung ano sikat dun sila...

Offline keida

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #346 on: February 12, 2008, 08:45:49 PM »
man. wala akong scene sa yourscenesucks.

nasa ano ako e,

"you grew up with nirvana and guns n roses, moved on to the more sophisticated oasis, discovered the deftones, discovered metal and the cocteau twins. you cannot play metal guitar or shred to save your life. you think paul weller, noel gallagher, maynard james keenan, chino moreno, elizabeth fraser and mike patton are cool. you think the dillinger escape plan and protest the hero are cool. you look and dress like herbert bautista (vice mayor version)."

gawa tayo ng thread na "CREATE YOUR OWN SUCKY SCENE" !

uy, nakarelate ako dun
insert blues in between gnr and oasis, and put punk and all its close relations alongside metal.

everytime something gets this big, its expected to see tons of copycats and other folks riding the bandwagon. its no surprise there's sooo many bands out there that make me cringe everytime i hear them.
it happened with the whole alternative thing, with the resurgence of "pangks" back in the mid 90's, with grunge, then with nu metal (which sucked in the first place lolz) then with the onslaught of european tech metal, and now due to how fast things spread through the web, "emo".

it can't be helped.
even with metal, despite not totally making it big, you dont have to dig in that deep to find tons of crappy ones.


damn you paeng for mentioning manowar, na lss na tuloy ako...

"WE'RE WARRIORS, WARRIORS OF THE WORLD!"
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Offline keida

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #347 on: February 12, 2008, 08:58:20 PM »
^^^ ive heard bands with gay members that sound more manly than anything with straight guys in them.

Botch
Gay for johnny depp
limp wrist

they can all kick your arse... or spank it.

+++
black fag
gayrilla biscuits
fruit punch
LOS CRUDOS!
need a photographer? check my work: http://xkeidax.deviantart.com http://flickr.com/photos/xkeidax
-to see with eyes unclouded by hate -

Offline jeibi16

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #348 on: February 12, 2008, 11:08:58 PM »
 :mrgreen: anlalim heheh music is music.. depende na lang sa mga makakaappreciate nung tunog.. rak en rol lang  :-D peace!
....\m/....

Offline fretburner

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Re: Guitarists' view on Emo music
« Reply #349 on: February 13, 2008, 03:38:41 AM »
i dont wanna chop your posts like you did with mine, and just give you one come back:

wow... you have such a sophisticated taste in music! thats just so cool! there's nothing gay in you at all! you listen to what a real man listens to!

-*-

yes. and emo is gay.

Quote
and for the record, yes, i could write a lyric like children of the grave ... i also believe Francis M. and Rivermaya wrote lyrics to the tone of that "kabataan ang pag-asa ng bayan." if you are gonna ask me to write, be prepared to pay me cause i surely as hell dont wanna write lyrics like that with nothing in return.

so can we hear your music and see your lyrics? coz we've heard of ozzy and he's still making music and sh!tloads of money.


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can't you cite better examples than mainstream metal? ... i play mainstream metal for my 14 year old cousins cause i know its easy to digest. i mean, if you are gonna bash emo as gay, then we might as well get macho right? ... after all, you are the type of guy who hates "gay" music, so im just showing you what testosterone music is like, dont go ragging off that "but they are a different branch of metal!! not counted!"

there are so many types of metal out there. you can't compare cradle of filth to metallica.

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and *lol* Led Zep... considered 'metal' in the past? *lol*  we might as well consider Little Richard metal as well... i mean he pounded E-minor on the keyboard right? *lol*

now, we know why you are whining like the emo dudes we play with in gigs. you don't know crap about music history.

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finally, yes you do need to "quote the millions" ... cause you are nothing but a mainstream kid who is in this illussion that he is unique.

never claimed to be unique. you not only are clueless with your history, you cannot argue as well.

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think for yourself. stop believing what is popular. stop incorporating the belief of other individuals and call it your own...

clueless with music history, don't know how to argue, and lastly, don't know how to make inferences.

give up already.



"We all come in from the cold
We come down from the wire
'Nd everybody warms themselves to a different fire..."