The Bow-teek Mic and Preamp Thread (Cost? Who cares about cost? )

[starfugger]

Hot mic for a hot setup.  You have a vocal chain I could only dream about: Gemini > Aphex > RME800. Hats off to you!

thanks Kit.    of course i still havent found the cure to GAS as you can plainly see, despite ...

i still have a long way to go in terms of maximizing my setup ... milk it to the max

[skunkyfunk]

actually it looks a lot like the se gemini. wonder if it sounds like it too ... hmmm..... ana sa pilipinas merong showroom ng mga ganito no?

No ADK showroom here, unfortunately. Methinks that you are also the lone SE Gemini "showroom" here unless someone steps up to the plate.

im also interested in the adk.  any soundclips skunk?

Just upped this awhile ago.  ADK-->Aphex 107 pre-->Vintage DOD 1202 Mixer-->Insert thru dbx 118 vintage Compressor (Just soft-knee threshed around -6dBFS) -->Lexicon DAW

Sorry I had to encode in mp3 128kbps which kind of degrades the sound a bit.  But the mic is very round and smooth.  Almost no problems with sibilance.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=523407&songID=5097707

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=523407&songID=5097702

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=523407&songID=5097690

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=523407&songID=5097686

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=523407&songID=5097680

I just raped some few projects especially the vox (you can hear the faint bass of the control room next to the vocal booth)

[starfugger]

hey thanks.  i shall listen to your clips when i get to the studio ... familiar environment :0)

[KitC]

Listened to the clips... the ADK/Aphex combo seem to go well with female vox; I was looking for an airiness which I found in that clip. Too bad it was marred by bleed from the control booth (maybe an SE Reflexion Filter could have lessened it?).

Here's something I've been tracking for some time now: T.H.E. Audio Microphones. Taylor Hohendahl Engineering mics have been figuring in some recordings already, and these are made in Argentina! The KR-04 modular preamp body is paired with the capsule of your choice. I'm leaning towards this: KR-33A Cardioid

[skunkyfunk]

^

Bleed you want = ambience

Ambience you hate = bleed

Maybe I should start making a bartolina for a vocal booth.   

[KitC]

Bleed you want = ambience

Ambience you hate = bleed

Maybe I should start making a bartolina for a vocal booth.   

Take it whichever way you want it, skunk, that low frequency bleed can and will interfere with your mix, but hey, if that's the way you want it...    Prolly could have lessened it by engaging a high pass anyway.

[skunkyfunk]

Bleed you want = ambience

Ambience you hate = bleed

Maybe I should start making a bartolina for a vocal booth.   

Take it whichever way you want it, skunk, that low frequency bleed can and will interfere with your mix, but hey, if that's the way you want it...    Prolly could have lessened it by engaging a high pass anyway.

I did some High passing at around 50Hz and it did quite well.  I really want to get some isolation but at the time when this was recorded, my doors were still not as airtight.

[KitC]

During a recent tracking session, we tried everything we can to control room noise and bleed. Ended up using some spare foam, pillows and putting up a folding foam bed behind the singer. We also lowered the control booth volume to minimize bleed... far from perfect but it was workable. Turns out we need better isolation from the headphones this time around (This where the HD280s would have been perfect, but my pair needs foam replacement.  )

One of the reasons why I've been gassing for a SE Reflexion Filter.

[starfugger]

me too kit.  tell me if u want one and i will contact my supplier.  he is giving me a good price for that.  and he is willing to slash off a few per cent for bulk orders

ive recently acquired a pair of Vic Firth Isolation Headphones which i intended for my drum pratices and future gigs.  apparently, these are VERY useful for tracking vocals and other soft acoustic instruments.  i can raise the volume of the headfones without introducing bleed into the mics.  when i track vocals i turn off the speakers in the control area and use headfones instead whenever possible.

[KitC]

when i track vocals i turn off the speakers in the control area and use headfones instead whenever possible.

That's how I would normally do it, but there are some singers who prefer to track with one ear in the cans so I've been considering those single earcup models as well. I know there are some DJ-style single cup cans out there but they're hard to find. I remember those being common in telephony... wonder if we could adapt those Plantronics-type headsets. 

[abyssinianson]

I can vouch for the SE reflexion filter as a good buy. I got a chance to use one at someone's project studio and the sound we got out of the thing was pretty darn good. The only problem with the unit is that it is quite heavy and bulky so I recommend using a heavy circular base mic stand or something similar to protect your investment from toppling over if the singer accidentally kicks the stand.

The Ref filter is a very well thoughout product and well made. I haven't had a need to use it on but it has definitely been on the back of my mind for those mobile projects. In the meantime, my wool blankets and Auralex Audio tiles have been working well for me so far. Kit, Hazel - a review would be nice for other fellow forumites who might be thinking about getting better mic isolation recordings.

[BAMF]

Heyy nice thread. I actually posted from school kanina but maybe philmusic took a hiccup again.

Anyway, I'll try to reconstruct my query.

I modified both of PIMP's LDC's, first the C1 by replacing the main ceramic filter cap with film, then scalarizing it, and also the B1, also scalarizing it. While I was at it, I scalarized all of the drum mikes and some of the handhelds that I could get my hands on. Only the SM57's were spared from the operation as there was no more space in the barrel. Shure put some hot glue gook inside it. Anyway...

Since I've gone down that path, or at least wet my toes in it, I might as well get an idea of what I'm shooting for. So allow me to ask two questions. I won't pretend to have any inkling in these as the only microphones I've worked on in my corporate life were telecommunications-related.

Okay...
1. What is the value of going bowteek mikes vis-a-vis mass produced ? I mean certainly there is something there that justifies the added cost or what not. What could it be ? (no sarcasm intended, just no better way of saying it).

2. What are those qualities that are desired or sought after in a microphone ? Being an ECE myself, I can think of a short list, not necessarily correct...accuracy, flatness of frequency response, clarity, sensitivity, bandwidth... kindly add, detract or clarify from the list. Or should there be mikes that are flat, crisp, wide, narrow, etc etc ?

I'm kinda inspired by that guy who modifies Octavia mikes. There's even another guy who creates his own condenser capsules and even fabricated his own gold-sputtering machine. It's not too far-fetched to think that someone here could do it, considering that the pioneers created their setups in garages and basements.

I'm almost sold that the Behringer and Samson LDC's are good "project microphone" platforms. Who knows...maybe I can do for microphones what I did for guitar pedals and even guitars ? .

Ey by the way, please drop by the PIMP studios and audition the scalarized Behringer B1 and C1 microphones. Or if schedule permits, I can bring them to your respective studios. If possible, kindly audition them. Thanks !

[starfugger]

BAMF, have youlooked intot he mojave mics?  it would be VERY cool if you can custom make tube mics too 

anyhoo, i think some botique mics cost as much as 5-12k USD.  telefunken makes some that cost more. 

ako the qualities i would like to have in a mic is the FRANK SINATRA quality.  i mean, just listen to those old records ... WOW.  full bodied, no sibilance or fizz, natural, creamy (throw me some more buzzwords!) ... just yummy all in all. 

[abyssinianson]

Okay...
1. What is the value of going bowteek mikes vis-a-vis mass produced ? I mean certainly there is something there that justifies the added cost or what not. What could it be ? (no sarcasm intended, just no better way of saying it).

2. What are those qualities that are desired or sought after in a microphone ? Being an ECE myself, I can think of a short list, not necessarily correct...accuracy, flatness of frequency response, clarity, sensitivity, bandwidth... kindly add, detract or clarify from the list. Or should there be mikes that are flat, crisp, wide, narrow, etc etc ?

The value of bowteek mics is in the sound. period. You wouldn't be paying for a piece of crap with how much you are shelling out for a neumann or a royer. The reason these two mics (along with a host of other tried and true mic pieces) are revered as they are is because they offer a particular sound that producers and engineers find useable and appealing.

Some qualities that I seek in a mic, new or vintage, are: clarity, consistency and versatility. Some mics are certainly not flat, BLUE mics are an exellent example, but they do flatter some sources that you use them on so people are willing to shell out money for a Blue valve mic to get the sound that they produce on disk. The same goes for Neumann and Royer mics. Neumann mics and Royers, including my favorite, the Royer C-121, produce a very warm, vintage sound to vocals that I love; the thing KILLS on jazz and blues vocals. On the other hand, some unorthodox choices like the Shure C-5 are sometimes amazing on rock vocals that people who hear it are often suprised that the mic choice was something out of the ordinary.

[KitC]

The value of a boutique mic manifests itself in quality and consistency. You would be hardpressed to find consistent operation (and even frequency curves) in mass-produced OEM mics like the ones that come from a huge country north of here; even consecutively numbered mic exhibit wide variances. Often, boutique mics are hand built to close tolerances and tuned to exacting specifications, a labor-intensive process which adds to the cost. Materials are also different: compare a brand mic to an OEM knockoff and right away you notice the copy is lighter; mic bodies are often heavier to reduce/eliminate body resonance (that's why Shure puts glue inside the the SM-57, with my 58, they even added a steel insert). Also, the boutique's preamp electronics don's skimp on parts and materials, much like the ceramic caps we often find in "inexpensive" mics, eh Bamf? You'd be hardpressed to find one in a Neumann.

Also, like abyss says, the 2nd and most important value is the sound. With most cheap mics, you have to eq the output and there's often a brittleness associated with the capsule and/or mic electronics, something you don't experience with a boutique. (I wish I could have a U87 in my mic cabinet before I hit my expiration date.  )

[skunkyfunk]

The value of a boutique mic manifests itself in quality and consistency. You would be hardpressed to find consistent operation (and even frequency curves) in mass-produced OEM mics like the ones that come from a huge country north of here; even consecutively numbered mic exhibit wide variances. Often, boutique mics are hand built to close tolerances and tuned to exacting specifications, a labor-intensive process which adds to the cost. Materials are also different: compare a brand mic to an OEM knockoff and right away you notice the copy is lighter; mic bodies are often heavier to reduce/eliminate body resonance (that's why Shure puts glue inside the the SM-57, with my 58, they even added a steel insert). Also, the boutique's preamp electronics don's skimp on parts and materials, much like the ceramic caps we often find in "inexpensive" mics, eh Bamf? You'd be hardpressed to find one in a Neumann.

Also, like abyss says, the 2nd and most important value is the sound. With most cheap mics, you have to eq the output and there's often a brittleness associated with the capsule and/or mic electronics, something you don't experience with a boutique. (I wish I could have a U87 in my mic cabinet before I hit my expiration date.  )

One time I want to visit Vehnee Saturno's studio in Balete Drive so I can have a mic shootout with his Neumann U87 and AKG 414.  Maybe BAMF can A/B his modded mics too.  He operates on Protools LE with a Digi 002 if I am not mistaken.  He used to have an Otari MTR90 and MTR100 (I think under storage) before.

[BALDO]

hmmm a few more months.. sa pasko makakapagpadala na ako ng sound clip ng fave kong mic .. di ba boss kitC? hehehhe..haayyy GAS.. di bale ika nga ni boss kitC.. bago umabot sa expiry date kelangang marinig na yang " THE MIC" na matagal na inaasam hehehehe.. bago malagutan ng hininga eh makahinga man lang sa isang bowteek na mic.. 

[KitC]

Oy, Baldo! Kahit TLM-193 masaya na ako, pero I want to start out with a couple of KM-84s (if I could get 'em) or maybe the current KM-184. 

[BAMF]

Sure dodj ! Just say when...

Ay teka...I'm tied down till wednesday am, and might be out of the country the week after (or the week after that). So Thursday next week is the best day. I'm curious din to see how far off pa. Gaano karaming bigas pa ang isasaing in terms of mikes

Or maybe we can go to Shinji's place  Boss Kit ? 

[KitC]

Pwede rin. We have a choice between a U87, Blue Baby Bottle and C414 (not sure if it's the B-ULS) sa Sound Creation.

[xjepoyx]

@hazel and Kit

i asked my friend from US who ships my stuffs here in Manila about the  SE Reflexion Filter. She said the price for  SE Reflexion Filter at musiciansfriend is more reasonable now than the local stores where she buys my stuffs. if you guys want i can get it for you for the same amount with mf coz im gassing one for myself also

[starfugger]

woohoo! GAS-tos! adiks unite!  haha!

eto pa kit, console naman (ok lang ba? it's the whole shebang! i swear never to GAS again in my life if i ever get my hands on these ... libre lang naman mangarap):



the wunderbar console!

[KitC]

Can't help but notice the choc'lates... 

I wonder if I should let this console pass... well, it DOES have preamps. (Specs, Haze! Specs! o kahit link man lang)

Carry on!

[starfugger]

The Wunderbar Console - $Call

The Console utilizes the PEQ1 Channel Amplifier delivering from 12 to 60 channels. A "Fully Balanced Bussing Scheme" is the heart of the Wunderbar, buffering the ground out of the equation. This results in significant increase in dynamic range while lowering noise substantially. There are transformer balanced direct outputs and inserts on all channels. The Stereo Buss has three Stereo Amplifier choices: Wunder, 1272, and 312.

The Routing Modules
The 1046 Routing modules are fully transformer balanced Class-A Discrete. Each channel has a monitor fader that is flip-able with the main channel fader. Also featured are six busses with illuminated switches, four auxes that are switchable pre or post, Pan Defeat, 48V phantom, and "Opto Silent" mute. If the console is short loaded, the Routing modules will act as a transformer-balanced inputs.

The Master Section
The Master Section includes a Control Room Monitor for monitoring six stereo sources, including busses. Mono, Dim, Mute, and Solo Clear are on large illuminated switches. Select from 3 sets of speakers or a headphone amp with separate volume control. The internal routing of sub groups to the stereo buss eliminates external patching, sparing monitor faders. The Eight-fader monitor section includes solo, pan, and placement into any of the busses. Talkback into any buss/aux is either latching, momentary, or remote. The master section has a large Illuminated master PFL, AFL Solo switch with Solo level.
Other features include: P&G 100mm Conductive Plastic Faders, thick hardwood end-cheeks in an unlimited choice of hardwoods, and full leather armrest.

* Optional Neve RAF color for extra charge

_____________

well i may have posted too soon, sorry looks like it might not have pre's after all... well it would make a great summing mixer hehehe

whoa, i just found out ... this  thing costs 3k USD per channel!!! *gulps*

[bindoy]

peace sirs and ma'am,

anu ba yan.unang basa ko wonderbra...hehhe..kulet..

pero ganda naman nito..tamang $call talaga siya kasi mukang mahal e...hehehe...parang ganyan un sa dreamgirls na palabas ah...ngatz.gbu