Mixing IN ABSENCE of the client

[abyssinianson]

case in point. yung drum sounds lang ng isang song ni whitney houston took 10 hrs to get the right drum sound.

Try Bob Rock spending a month to get the drum sounds right for Metallica's Black album.  It was a series of hit and miss. 

Yeah, but Bob Rock had a retainer as Metallica's producer for that album and he, in turn, had a manager of his own to work out the legal kinks. Jumping ship by either party would have been a serious breach of contract - enough grounds to sue, in my experience. I do not deal with as much legalities as I used to and I like it that way. When I started having a management group do my legal stuff for me, I just met with them a few times to discuss my ground level interests and to dictate how I think my affairs should be handled. Things were pretty easy from then on.

Working on music sounds and tweaking stuff usually takes a lot of time if you are laying a proper album down. Usually, my crew and I do one instrument setup a day just to get things like amps and mics right before tracking. Recording may take one or two days depending on how many songs are on the album and whether it is an EP or not. Demos do not require as much work and you can do that stuff in a few hours.

[xjepoyx]

ei dojie... is it possible for us to hear the mix that your client doesnt want to pay?

[superwup]

Just tell your client that you have the flu and your ears sound like sitting in a submarine................

They will come and make the time to finnish the record because they need the material..........

[skunkyfunk]

ei dojie... is it possible for us to hear the mix that your client doesnt want to pay?

More of a problem with mastering.  They want everything uber loud, but can't afford mastering.  Things get bad when you convert them to square waveforms when you're listening to nearfields.  You really hear those clipping artifacts even with major releases.  They really get in the way of sonic judgment.

I'll try to upload excerpts of the file, unmastered and "pseudo"-mastered.

[skunkyfunk]

ei dojie... is it possible for us to hear the mix that your client doesnt want to pay?

Hey wait a minute.  I just realized that if I make my rant public, it's ok for as long as there's no name dropping.  But once I have the song upped, that will automatically be incriminating as the song will be a dead giveaway as to the artist I am ranting about.  They visit this forum as well from time to time.  Now, I can't upload it to cover my ass.

[xjepoyx]

ei dojie... is it possible for us to hear the mix that your client doesnt want to pay?

More of a problem with mastering.  They want everything uber loud, but can't afford mastering.  Things get bad when you convert them to square waveforms when you're listening to nearfields.  You really hear those clipping artifacts even with major releases.  They really get in the way of sonic judgment.

I'll try to upload excerpts of the file, unmastered and "pseudo"-mastered.

awryt!

maybe most of the guys here can contribute on some tweaks needed. like master mikep, kitc, shinji and others.

para mabayaran ka na... its really hard to please everybody... diba? haaaay

[xjepoyx]

Hey wait a minute.  I just realized that if I make my rant public, it's ok for as long as there's no name dropping.  But once I have the song upped, that will automatically be incriminating as the song will be a dead giveaway as to the artist I am ranting about.  They visit this forum as well from time to time.  Now, I can't upload it to cover my ass.

maybe you can ask here who wants a copy and help you out and just get their email address.
including me

rapidmediasolutions@gmail.com

[skunkyfunk]

ei dojie... is it possible for us to hear the mix that your client doesnt want to pay?

More of a problem with mastering.  They want everything uber loud, but can't afford mastering.  Things get bad when you convert them to square waveforms when you're listening to nearfields.  You really hear those clipping artifacts even with major releases.  They really get in the way of sonic judgment.

I'll try to upload excerpts of the file, unmastered and "pseudo"-mastered.

awryt!

maybe most of the guys here can contribute on some tweaks needed. like master mikep, kitc, shinji and others.

para mabayaran ka na... its really hard to please everybody... diba? haaaay

Actually, BAYAD na kaya akala ko tapos na. (good to fit a full-length album). Come few more months they decide to scrap 2 songs we made, then track 2 new songs to add to the album, and akala ko yung 2 bagong kanta lang ang imimix. Yun pati daw mga na-mix na dati gusto pa ipa-remix!!!!  Isa lang daw ang OK ang mix, tapos ihabol daw lahat sa isa.  Now after hours of autotuning the atrocious vocals FOR FREE (as in ako na ang nagkusa outside the alotted 10 hours per song) they want everything remixed.  The funny thing is they don't even find time to stay in one room and have a critical mixing session.  Come to think of it, TWEAKING NA LANG ANG DAPAT GAWIN.  They were treating me as a SLAVE to come to think of it, out of my goodwill I am alotting free precious studio hours for them, only that the time I am busy working, they can't see how much atrocities I am dealing with.  It all stemmed from indecisiveness, wrong pre-production references (changed their minds AFTER the whole album was tracked).

So I mixed them again FOR FREE without them around, and pressured me that they have  a deadline with some huge label guy.  And so I met their deadline.  And guess what, after the label exec listened to the CD, they got turned down (as I was expecting - labels turn down 9 of 10 bands I guess due to "financial" reasons and not "artistic") and now they want me to mix again!!!  That was the time I said "you should come to mix with me."  For the record I have been mixing alone and cleaning up your tracks for the longest time (try around 50-60 hours per song siguro for the past year and still not yet "finished" for them).

And I am so pissed off that after long hours of trial and error with what they want, they want to see a waverform similar to this:



Side note:  Gusto pa nga nila, hindi bayaran yung 2 bagong kanta kasi daw balak lang nila ipa-shelf yung  gusto nila i-scrap na dalawang kanta!!!  In other words, dahil sa hindi nila balak i-release yung 2 lumang kanta, ire-replace lang nila ng 2 bago nang walang bayad.     

[xjepoyx]

parang di waveform yan ah hehehe

maybe you should educate them more

[skunkyfunk]

parang di waveform yan ah hehehe

maybe you should educate them more

You cannot educate a student who is always absent.

Furthermore, you cannot learn if you don't want to be taught.

The iPod generation is sickening me honestly.

[inigo]

Delete button.... hahahaha.

[starfugger]

solution #2: remix but get a bigger cut from the album if they dont have the dough to pay you now.  may interes dapat yan.

[inigo]

^^^ or else... delete button

[skunkyfunk]

solution #2: remix but get a bigger cut from the album if they dont have the dough to pay you now.  may interes dapat yan.

I doubt they would agree.  They are the worst lowballers I have worked with in my life.  BTW they had the nerve to borrow my amps for free in an upcoming gig.  Wankers!!!

[starfugger]

no means no, no means no, no means no, no means no ...

[skunkyfunk]

^ absolutely

@inigo - Hindi ba kapag malaki ng files, pag nag delete ka hindi kasya sa Recycle Bin?  That way there is no turning back.

[xjepoyx]

change the properties of your recycle bin

or...

burn mo muna sa dvd tapos delete. then pautos mo sa helper mo sa house itago sa di mo mahahanap sa loob ng bahay. kesa mo sisantihin yung helper. now may rason ka na sa client na tinago ng sinisante mong helper yung disk at di mo na mahanap yung session files.

 then mangangarag ka ngayon hanapin yung disk pag napagisipan mong kalikutin uli yung disk at syempre susuko ka ng gawin yung session uli nila pag nag giveup ka na sa paghahanap ng disk.

   




anyway i just chatted with BALDO and he said u gave him a copy of the mix... can i ask him to send me a copy? is it ok with you?

[skunkyfunk]

change the properties of your recycle bin

or...

burn mo muna sa dvd tapos delete. then pautos mo sa helper mo sa house itago sa di mo mahahanap sa loob ng bahay. kesa mo sisantihin yung helper. now may rason ka na sa client na tinago ng sinisante mong helper yung disk at di mo na mahanap yung session files.

 then mangangarag ka ngayon hanapin yung disk pag napagisipan mong kalikutin uli yung disk at syempre susuko ka ng gawin yung session uli nila pag nag giveup ka na sa paghahanap ng disk.

   




anyway i just chatted with BALDO and he said u gave him a copy of the mix... can i ask him to send me a copy? is it ok with you?

Dude ibang mix yung na kay baldo.  Total opposites ang kabaitan ng mga iyan.  Hey I gave that to Baldo without the band's permission because I just wanted to see how loud he can go.  I wanted the band to have a blindfold test kung ano ang mas magandang master. And if may dapat magbenefit diyan sa sample mastering eh hindi dapat ang mga pineapple at apple.  Sorry can't name names baka mademanda ako hehhe.

Originally I just wanted him to master a snippet of the song. 

[xjepoyx]

oh ok... i see

anyway... good luck with your pasaway client



logging off

[abyssinianson]

solution #2: remix but get a bigger cut from the album if they dont have the dough to pay you now.  may interes dapat yan.

I doubt they would agree.  They are the worst lowballers I have worked with in my life.  BTW they had the nerve to borrow my amps for free in an upcoming gig.  Wankers!!!

aren't the amps yours? why lend them to the wankers? if i didn't want people using my amps, i wouldn't lend it to them. things of this matter really ARE that simple.

[inigo]

^ absolutely

@inigo - Hindi ba kapag malaki ng files, pag nag delete ka hindi kasya sa Recycle Bin?  That way there is no turning back.

Yup! And for them... there's no coming back!

[BAMF]

Sayang I don't have the time to read through the entire thread, I have to get ready for my classes...

But just to share, and I don't know if it fits or if it has any real value...

But my ex-bassist once said to me "The engineer is part of the band". In this case, the engineer should understand the groove, should understand the musical and emotional idea that the artist wishes to be expressed.

If an engineer can capture this, everything else will be secondary.

I'm reading this book I got at Benilde (Gawd such a great Library we have there !!!)....Recording Tips for Engineers by Tim Crich. He says there that Recording Engineers, ideally, should be musicians. And even says "if you don't play an instrument, go learn one". I guess what he's saying there is that you can only be an effective musical recording engineer if you're a musician yourself (forget the voice overs hehehe).

[skunkyfunk]

Sayang I don't have the time to read through the entire thread, I have to get ready for my classes...

But just to share, and I don't know if it fits or if it has any real value...

But my ex-bassist once said to me "The engineer is part of the band". In this case, the engineer should understand the groove, should understand the musical and emotional idea that the artist wishes to be expressed.

If an engineer can capture this, everything else will be secondary.

I'm reading this book I got at Benilde (Gawd such a great Library we have there !!!)....Recording Tips for Engineers by Tim Crich. He says there that Recording Engineers, ideally, should be musicians. And even says "if you don't play an instrument, go learn one". I guess what he's saying there is that you can only be an effective musical recording engineer if you're a musician yourself (forget the voice overs hehehe).

I second that.  But the problem is when the band treats you like a SLAVE and not a BAND MEMBER.  I have tried a lot of earcandy ideas for their mixes, but eventually they would still go for LOUDNESS over dynamics.  And when you slam everything to 0dBFS and maintain a -8dBFS RMS, you're in for unbalanced sounds.  Reverb tails turn to cloudy sounds, guitars become mushy, kick transients get lost, and all that.  Check out the waveform I posted.  They find THAT appealing.

[BALDO]

it might be appealing to the eyes but not to the EARS.. and music is about HEARING di ba? 

[skunkyfunk]

it might be appealing to the eyes but not to the EARS.. and music is about HEARING di ba? 

Honestly it is not visually appealing for me, and much worse hearing it.  I don't like seeing the vu meters peak all the time, turning the red lights into strove lights, while the green lights are "steady".

Baldo, since you'll be mastering most of the clients I refer to you, brace yourself for some stupid requests.  You'll have to do a lot of de-amplifying some transients before slamming the wav to a compressor (your LA2A, that is).  I've read a lot of HOT mastering techniques but I can't stand it.  I think I can't last 2-3 hours doing the job.  My ears get so tired so quickly.