hulika

Author Topic: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout  (Read 19554 times)

Offline vaisteen2003

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2007, 02:29:45 PM »
(In order to avoid any biases, I decided to write this thread with all involved entities as anonymous.)


Here we have THREE (3) different masters of the same song.  The original 2-bus mix was in 24-bit/44.1KHz in wav format. , UNPEAKED (max was -3DBFS), no added EQ or compression to the final mix.

TWO of which were mastered by the same person in different fashions, and the other version was mastered by the other.  All of the masters were cut at exactly 3:00 due to piracy issues.  Unfortunately, everything here is in 256kbps mp3 format as you don't wanna download 80+Megs of each wav, right?  (can be an issue, but hey I want this test to be available to anyone).

LINKS:

MASTER 1
MASTER 2
MASTER 3



Once you've downloaded, please answer these questions:

1.  Which Master did you like most?  Why?
2.  Which Master did you like least?  Why?
3.  Which two files were mastered by the same person?  (Sample Answer:  Mix#2 and Mix#3 were done by the same person)
4.  Which of the 3 masters do you think were done in a PROFESSIONAL mastering outfit? (Hint: the 3 masters were rendered from 2 different locations, one location had more expensive equipment than the other.)

There are really no correct answers to this test because as always, different tastes make different judgments.  Oh even the listening environment matters too!

Lend me your ears!  :mrgreen:

skunk voice ni CED to ah??? sina ced, JM, jambs and YAM ba ito?

This post is useless without pics.  :-D

anyway to answer your post. for an untrained ears like mine, i love the definition of master 2, though i only get to compare master 2 and 3 coz the 1st one has expired already. But in general the drum sound seem kinda unbalanced to me.

Fixed the links now.

I did have some ear candy suggestions for the band.  3 mixes to choose from.  One had a very pronounced snare sound, the other more "glam-y" in a sense.  I was surprised they liked the rawest sounding mix.  Maybe it is most representative of their sound?   I've seen these guys twice live and I think the drums sound very MANLY.  :-D

hell yeah yam sounds manly sa drums. nakasabay ko na sila sa gig many times and yes tama ka they like their sound raw. damn you can mix pala a sort of GLAM-y sound. ill record some of my original materials at your studio when i get back home. those are the mixes i want. mala glam sounds ung drums. weheheh
GAS Free 2007
"As long as it matters, as long as you're here with me now"

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2007, 02:32:03 PM »
(In order to avoid any biases, I decided to write this thread with all involved entities as anonymous.)


Here we have THREE (3) different masters of the same song.  The original 2-bus mix was in 24-bit/44.1KHz in wav format. , UNPEAKED (max was -3DBFS), no added EQ or compression to the final mix.

TWO of which were mastered by the same person in different fashions, and the other version was mastered by the other.  All of the masters were cut at exactly 3:00 due to piracy issues.  Unfortunately, everything here is in 256kbps mp3 format as you don't wanna download 80+Megs of each wav, right?  (can be an issue, but hey I want this test to be available to anyone).

LINKS:

MASTER 1
MASTER 2
MASTER 3



Once you've downloaded, please answer these questions:

1.  Which Master did you like most?  Why?
2.  Which Master did you like least?  Why?
3.  Which two files were mastered by the same person?  (Sample Answer:  Mix#2 and Mix#3 were done by the same person)
4.  Which of the 3 masters do you think were done in a PROFESSIONAL mastering outfit? (Hint: the 3 masters were rendered from 2 different locations, one location had more expensive equipment than the other.)

There are really no correct answers to this test because as always, different tastes make different judgments.  Oh even the listening environment matters too!

Lend me your ears!  :mrgreen:

skunk voice ni CED to ah??? sina ced, JM, jambs and YAM ba ito?

This post is useless without pics.  :-D

anyway to answer your post. for an untrained ears like mine, i love the definition of master 2, though i only get to compare master 2 and 3 coz the 1st one has expired already. But in general the drum sound seem kinda unbalanced to me.

Fixed the links now.

I did have some ear candy suggestions for the band.  3 mixes to choose from.  One had a very pronounced snare sound, the other more "glam-y" in a sense.  I was surprised they liked the rawest sounding mix.  Maybe it is most representative of their sound?   I've seen these guys twice live and I think the drums sound very MANLY.  :-D

hell yeah yam sounds manly sa drums. nakasabay ko na sila sa gig many times and yes tama ka they like their sound raw. damn you can mix pala a sort of GLAM-y sound. ill record some of my original materials at your studio when i get back home. those are the mixes i want. mala glam sounds ung drums. weheheh

Manly, but the looks....

















Di mo iisiping rock drummer...

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2007, 05:41:35 PM »
Excuse me, skunkyfunk, if I temporarily hijack your thread...

Hey kitc, now i'm convinced that sequels are really the 'in' thing nowadays. hahaha.

...now how could there be a "transformers part II", when megatron already died? (my deepest apologies to those who haven't watched it yet...)

I'll work on the '24' thread afterwards...

You want spoilers? Here goes...



carry on, guys!  :-D
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2007, 07:36:07 PM »
that's hilarious kit :)
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline BALDO

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2007, 09:35:47 AM »
i honestly think you should refrain from mastering muna.  a mix can sound very nice despite the lack of mastering. maybe masyadong madami kang iniisip and it's clouding up your focus on "proper" mixing.  i wish you all the best skunk.  sana nga mahuli mo sa part 2 yung tamang tunog :)  walang makakapag sabi kung ano yung tamang tunog, pero pag nadinig ng tao at naisip nilang "ang ganda!", yun na yon.  let go of theory and listen.  blindly tweak if u must.

good luck.
oo nga Skunk.. mix it to the best of your abilites hehehe  :-D :-D :-D..  Hazel..ok na yung mix mo.. i sent you my work..check your email.. i sent the mp3 and .wav file..
ps
skunk..just ask Hazel how her recording sounded.. it was a GOOD mix to start with kaya " i think i did the job well too"..  8-)
Music is art in sound...


Offline BALDO

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2007, 09:52:14 AM »
Hazel.. can i let Skunk hear a snippet of your song?  8-) hmmm 7 secs of guitar intro and 7 secs on the middle part of the song..
Music is art in sound...

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2007, 11:11:17 AM »
i honestly think you should refrain from mastering muna.  a mix can sound very nice despite the lack of mastering. maybe masyadong madami kang iniisip and it's clouding up your focus on "proper" mixing.  i wish you all the best skunk.  sana nga mahuli mo sa part 2 yung tamang tunog :)  walang makakapag sabi kung ano yung tamang tunog, pero pag nadinig ng tao at naisip nilang "ang ganda!", yun na yon.  let go of theory and listen.  blindly tweak if u must.

good luck.
oo nga Skunk.. mix it to the best of your abilites hehehe  :-D :-D :-D..  Hazel..ok na yung mix mo.. i sent you my work..check your email.. i sent the mp3 and .wav file..
ps
skunk..just ask Hazel how her recording sounded.. it was a GOOD mix to start with kaya " i think i did the job well too"..  8-)

I just tried remixing the whole thing by having a longer release time on the snare gate.  It quite worked.  Dunno if that's what the band wants though.  It sounded like the hihats are a bit splashy now.  Tried to cut around 4KHz for the snare and solved the problem a bit, but still looking for more defined wash on the hihats. 

I really don't like DIY mastering because it's totally defeating the purpose.  But time and again I always thought bringing up the levels in the mastering process kills a lot of nice transients, and sometimes results in drowning some instruments.  Hence, I really like taking advantage of some mastering engr's tools (especially compressors) by exaggerating some levels, especially the kick which usually gets drowned when pumped up.

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2007, 07:06:26 AM »
i honestly think you should refrain from mastering muna.  a mix can sound very nice despite the lack of mastering. maybe masyadong madami kang iniisip and it's clouding up your focus on "proper" mixing.  i wish you all the best skunk.  sana nga mahuli mo sa part 2 yung tamang tunog :)  walang makakapag sabi kung ano yung tamang tunog, pero pag nadinig ng tao at naisip nilang "ang ganda!", yun na yon.  let go of theory and listen.  blindly tweak if u must.

good luck.
oo nga Skunk.. mix it to the best of your abilites hehehe  :-D :-D :-D..  Hazel..ok na yung mix mo.. i sent you my work..check your email.. i sent the mp3 and .wav file..
ps
skunk..just ask Hazel how her recording sounded.. it was a GOOD mix to start with kaya " i think i did the job well too"..  8-)

ay salamat ng madami baldo.  sobra.  i'll check it today.  

frankly though my mix is far from perfect in terms of having all the sound in my head translated into the actual sound of the mix.  madami pa akong naiimagine na tunog na hindi ko parin talaga mahuli.   i think i let jepoy listen to the version that was a bit darker and he let a guitarist friend listen to it too.  sabi nung kaibigan nya hindi daw nya type yung tone ng guitar (i know guitarists are very very particular about their guitar tone) but he did say bumagay sa genre at sa kanta overall.  yun naman ata importante because god knows you can't please every guitarist. LOL.

skunk im familiar with that snare bleed problem. it's a bitch because when you try to cut at the frequencies where the hats invade the track, the overall quality of the snare changes.   here's how ive dealt with the problem in the past.  i compress the way i want it (and i usually compress to a point where it becomes "explosive".  this will definitely bring up the hats).  then i gate tightly.  it wont sound nice.  underneath that i  put the same uncompressed, ungated snare sound.  nangyayari parang upward compression (dunno im not really familiar with theory). you have the gated explosive sound on top of the natural sound.  it worked for a me a lot of times.  plus i am able to minimize the bleed that way.  also you might wanna try drum sampling on top of the real drum sound.  the advantage is you can compress and limit this sampled snare sound to death without the bleed. ive heard of dave grohl tracking drums without hats and cymbals  so that they can compress tre tracks to high heavens.  

one more thing i do when the hats become truly irritating at some point is that i automate by bringing down the level of the parts where hats and/or cymbals assault the ears, haha.  i normally dont use a hihat track and just rely on the hats from the overheads.   not very ideal but this is because i dont love the b8pro sound, plus i usually run out of mics.  in any case, my theory runs thus: i can't get that warm unobtrusive hat sound because i dont have a warm unobtrusive 13 inch pair of fusion hats.  lol.  di ko magets kung bakit ganon tunog ng hats ko dati but when a friend loaned me his ns10's i kinda figgered out the b8pro sucks big time.   :-D  also, mics on hats count as much as anywhere else.  tried micing hats with an sm 57 and i got a lot of weirdness to the track, like the mic was being pushed too much and there was a bit of distortion, not clipping but more like the distortion you get from fast attack and release times on a compressor.  wrong mic, i guess.  

one more suggestion on bringing down that ultra-washy, thin hat sound is by using a multiband on the the overheads.  the uad precision multi-band is quite good (or maybe the interface just looks pretty enough to fool me into thinking it sounded better than the other multibands ive tried).   multiband compression makes things complicated and i try to stay away from it as much as possible.  but there are times that a track cannot be fixed by anything else but that.
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2007, 07:28:54 AM »
baldo i checked my mail and found the mastered mp3 pero parang mabagal sya.  try ko ayusin.  anong bit rate nito?  thanks.  i didn't get the wav version of the file. 
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline BALDO

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2007, 09:11:19 AM »
hazel it is at 16 bit 44.1.. check mo yung player mo..kasi u sent it 48/24 yata.. :?.. otherwise maayos mo naman yun according to the bit rate and sample rate.  8-)
Music is art in sound...

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2007, 10:16:37 AM »
baldo, sorry.  bopols ako talaga sa mga numbers. paresend pleeeaaassseee.  mukang maganda sya! kaso mabagal di ko madinig yung totoong tunog.  pwede mp3 at wav version?  mukang may issue ata yung mp3 encoder mo or you encode at higher bit rates pero yung quality naka-set sa FAST.  i dunno, pacheck nalang.  kahit 192 yung bit rate ok lang basta naka set sa best yung quality ayos lang :) intayin ko ha so the clients can preview your work :)

salamat!!!!

FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline BALDO

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2007, 12:51:23 PM »
paktay tayo jan...nasa work ako..bukas ng 9am NYT 9pm pinas time ipapadala ko.. pramis..
Music is art in sound...

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2007, 12:59:03 PM »
hehe, bigla kang naging inchik. la lang, OT.  ok sige thanks.  email ko nalang din sakanila. salamat ng marami.
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline BALDO

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2007, 01:07:11 PM »
ok bukas na lang ng 9am nyt  o 9pm jan.. kol kita kapag me time ako..ok? byeeeee. 8-)
Music is art in sound...

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2007, 01:21:13 PM »
i honestly think you should refrain from mastering muna.  a mix can sound very nice despite the lack of mastering. maybe masyadong madami kang iniisip and it's clouding up your focus on "proper" mixing.  i wish you all the best skunk.  sana nga mahuli mo sa part 2 yung tamang tunog :)  walang makakapag sabi kung ano yung tamang tunog, pero pag nadinig ng tao at naisip nilang "ang ganda!", yun na yon.  let go of theory and listen.  blindly tweak if u must.

good luck.
oo nga Skunk.. mix it to the best of your abilites hehehe  :-D :-D :-D..  Hazel..ok na yung mix mo.. i sent you my work..check your email.. i sent the mp3 and .wav file..
ps
skunk..just ask Hazel how her recording sounded.. it was a GOOD mix to start with kaya " i think i did the job well too"..  8-)

I just tried remixing the whole thing by having a longer release time on the snare gate.  It quite worked.  Dunno if that's what the band wants though.  It sounded like the hihats are a bit splashy now.  Tried to cut around 4KHz for the snare and solved the problem a bit, but still looking for more defined wash on the hihats. 

I really don't like DIY mastering because it's totally defeating the purpose.  But time and again I always thought bringing up the levels in the mastering process kills a lot of nice transients, and sometimes results in drowning some instruments.  Hence, I really like taking advantage of some mastering engr's tools (especially compressors) by exaggerating some levels, especially the kick which usually gets drowned when pumped up.


i don't know if you already do this, but perhaps it would help to slap a buss compressor, an eq, and a limiter on the master buss so that you hear how it's gonna sound more or less when mastered.  this way there is a little less guess work involved, and you actually hear how limitng affects the balance of your mix.  then when you're done, bypass the limiter and mixdown with the comp and eq still on.  just a suggestion.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 01:22:25 PM by starfugger »
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2007, 02:55:50 PM »

skunk im familiar with that snare bleed problem. it's a bitch because when you try to cut at the frequencies where the hats invade the track, the overall quality of the snare changes.   here's how ive dealt with the problem in the past.  i compress the way i want it (and i usually compress to a point where it becomes "explosive".  this will definitely bring up the hats).  then i gate tightly.  it wont sound nice.  underneath that i  put the same uncompressed, ungated snare sound.  nangyayari parang upward compression (dunno im not really familiar with theory). you have the gated explosive sound on top of the natural sound.  it worked for a me a lot of times.  plus i am able to minimize the bleed that way.  also you might wanna try drum sampling on top of the real drum sound.  the advantage is you can compress and limit this sampled snare sound to death without the bleed. ive heard of dave grohl tracking drums without hats and cymbals  so that they can compress tre tracks to high heavens. 

one more thing i do when the hats become truly irritating at some point is that i automate by bringing down the level of the parts where hats and/or cymbals assault the ears, haha.  i normally dont use a hihat track and just rely on the hats from the overheads.   not very ideal but this is because i dont love the b8pro sound, plus i usually run out of mics.  in any case, my theory runs thus: i can't get that warm unobtrusive hat sound because i dont have a warm unobtrusive 13 inch pair of fusion hats.  lol.  di ko magets kung bakit ganon tunog ng hats ko dati but when a friend loaned me his ns10's i kinda figgered out the b8pro sucks big time.   :-D  also, mics on hats count as much as anywhere else.  tried micing hats with an sm 57 and i got a lot of weirdness to the track, like the mic was being pushed too much and there was a bit of distortion, not clipping but more like the distortion you get from fast attack and release times on a compressor.  wrong mic, i guess. 

one more suggestion on bringing down that ultra-washy, thin hat sound is by using a multiband on the the overheads.  the uad precision multi-band is quite good (or maybe the interface just looks pretty enough to fool me into thinking it sounded better than the other multibands ive tried).   multiband compression makes things complicated and i try to stay away from it as much as possible.  but there are times that a track cannot be fixed by anything else but that.

I've done all those you suggested, but the hihats are too intrusive because the drummer is a hard-hitter.  But then, as part of the production, we really wanted a less-overproduced sound, along the lines of those less-popular grunge bands in the '90s.  Pedal tone was preferred to direct to amp distortion.  Drums were ok with bleed.  We even tracked guitar alongside to guide the drums so there was a tad of bleed through the drum mics. 

As for the suggestions regarding the snare being explosive...  We don't want that.  In fact that was what we were avoiding in the first place.  My concern mainly is on how the loudness of the snare track affects the hihat sound.  I tried turning off the snare gate and it worked well, but it kind of made the hihats sound louder (and a lot of midrange was added to the sound).  At one point I considered replacing the drums by recording several one-hits on the drums, but I thought that was defeating the purpose of the raw sound approach.  We like the Appice/Bonham kind of approach, where the power from the drums should be very raw, and less compressed. 

Anyway, I've tried listening to the tracks again in my car and at home.  The less-loud master (master 1) seems to solve that "muffled snare" problem.  It's giving enough headroom for the snare transients to breathe.  Listen closely.  But then again if I were to bring that to a mastering engineer I assume these transients would be thrown out of the window so another mix might be necessary.




Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2007, 03:07:52 PM »
i honestly think you should refrain from mastering muna.  a mix can sound very nice despite the lack of mastering. maybe masyadong madami kang iniisip and it's clouding up your focus on "proper" mixing.  i wish you all the best skunk.  sana nga mahuli mo sa part 2 yung tamang tunog :)  walang makakapag sabi kung ano yung tamang tunog, pero pag nadinig ng tao at naisip nilang "ang ganda!", yun na yon.  let go of theory and listen.  blindly tweak if u must.

good luck.
oo nga Skunk.. mix it to the best of your abilites hehehe  :-D :-D :-D..  Hazel..ok na yung mix mo.. i sent you my work..check your email.. i sent the mp3 and .wav file..
ps
skunk..just ask Hazel how her recording sounded.. it was a GOOD mix to start with kaya " i think i did the job well too"..  8-)

I just tried remixing the whole thing by having a longer release time on the snare gate.  It quite worked.  Dunno if that's what the band wants though.  It sounded like the hihats are a bit splashy now.  Tried to cut around 4KHz for the snare and solved the problem a bit, but still looking for more defined wash on the hihats. 

I really don't like DIY mastering because it's totally defeating the purpose.  But time and again I always thought bringing up the levels in the mastering process kills a lot of nice transients, and sometimes results in drowning some instruments.  Hence, I really like taking advantage of some mastering engr's tools (especially compressors) by exaggerating some levels, especially the kick which usually gets drowned when pumped up.


i don't know if you already do this, but perhaps it would help to slap a buss compressor, an eq, and a limiter on the master buss so that you hear how it's gonna sound more or less when mastered.  this way there is a little less guess work involved, and you actually hear how limitng affects the balance of your mix.  then when you're done, bypass the limiter and mixdown with the comp and eq still on.  just a suggestion.

I've been doing that since around 6 years ago.  But nowadays, this volume-junkie approach to mastering makes that "put plugins at mix buss" approach kind of "outdated" in a sense that you must see those VU meters going red all the time to get a more accurate preview of how it'll sound once mastered.  Unless you have a Manley or Cranesong compressor and a TC Finalizer in the mix buss (before the signal reaches your speakers), you can't pretty much have a better preview of the mastered track as working within the digital domain can really give too much mush.  Using software plugs to emulate mastering can kind of limit your "listening" options because you have to work within the domain of 0dBFS to -72dBFs (or the 144dBFS Signal-to-noise ratio if you use 24-bit).    It is pretty much like listening to getting levels of a kick drum, and once you get that nice punchy sound, once you start recording it, you notice that it clips like hell.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 03:08:59 PM by skunkyfunk »

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #92 on: July 11, 2007, 03:25:09 PM »
lol. wow those are heavy pieces of equipment skunk. im not sure im worthy of those manleys and cranesongs and tc finalizers yet.  what im sure of though is that things can be done ITB quite well.  it was only for approximation that i suggested what you have been doing since six years ago all along.   im pretty sure a lot of mastering engineers here "master" ITB as well.

iikot lang tayo ng iikot.  as long as youre happy with your mix then i suppose everything is a ok. 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 03:29:15 PM by starfugger »
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #93 on: July 11, 2007, 03:36:04 PM »
well u wanted raw and you got raw alright.  congrats.

by the way, what ive learned lately is that if one wants a raw sound that goes for the jugular, the raw tracks have to be excellent.  the rawer the supposed  mix is, the better the raw tracks should be. kinda makes it more difficult for home recordists such as myself because the room and the actual drumkit quality comes into play a lot more in recordings such as these, not to mention a/d-d/a conversion, mics and preamps.  not to mean that it can't be done.  just very difficult.  i learned all this by visiting shinji's studio and hearing that his raw drum sounds were already excellent to begin with.  they could hold up even without processing.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 03:42:08 PM by starfugger »
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #94 on: July 11, 2007, 03:43:10 PM »
lol. wow those are heavy pieces of equipment skunk. im not sure im worthy of those manleys and cranesongs and tc finalizers yet.  what im sure of though is that things can be done ITB quite well.  it was only for approximation that i suggested what you have been doing since six years ago all along.   im pretty sure a lot of mastering engineers here "master" ITB as well.

iikot lang tayo ng iikot.  as long as youre happy with your mix then i suppose everything is a ok. 

ITB is ok if you want less-than-VLADO MELLER-loud masters.  It's quite my standard nowadays.

Regarding iikot nang iikot... hehehe... don't you think that is something really normal?  Unless the maximum budget had been consummated or the deadline had to be met, we'll go in circles talaga, ideally...  Hell I wish I could remix all my works from day 1...

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #95 on: July 11, 2007, 03:45:24 PM »
Makes me wonder, is it an insult to YOU as a mixing engineer if a mastering engineer would prefer STEMS rather than the 2-bus?  Isn't that kind of invading your jurisdiction?

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #96 on: July 11, 2007, 03:52:22 PM »
no not really.  i dont mind making stems for a mastering engineer or a remixer.  i understand that mastering can ctually f*** up the balance of a mix and perhaps the mastering engineer who asked for stems actually wanted to protect YOUR mix, so that the same balance is retained even after heavy limiting.  i actually offered to make stems for a friend who asked me to mix a song the other day so that he could actually remix in the presence of the band if the band wanted changes. he declined at first, but after listening to the mix the next day we botrh noticed a portion where the snare sound went down.  i remixed of course, and this time he did take up my offer to bounce stems.  no harm no foul.  it;s better that other people wrap their heads around my mix and correct me where i went wrong. 

i guess it's a matter of trust.  i trust that my friend had been record-engineering for main acts for the longest and is more exprienced than i am by many many years.  i dont have monopoly of the knowledge of what is best for the mix anyway. 

skunk just out of curiosity, which of nirvana's songs was your reference for this song that you posted?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 04:31:26 PM by starfugger »
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline skunkyfunk

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #97 on: July 11, 2007, 04:45:56 PM »

skunk just out of curiosity, which of nirvana's songs was your reference for this song that you posted?

To tell you honestly, we don't want to sound like Nirvana, because if we did, we would and we shall be expecting too many NIRVANA ripoff comments...  It is quite difficult to compete with the music you hear nowadays, where you hear overproduced albums like that of the emo and 'core metal stuff.  Most listeners equate "HI-FI" to "PROFESSIONAL-SOUNDING".   :x  And for me, what can make your song stand out in a segue of 10 songs is having a different overall timbre of the whole mix compared to the other 9.  Case in point:  QUEENS OF THE STONE AGE'S "Sick, Sick Sick".  It'll really stand out amongst the emo stuff you hear now, with the lo-fi "boxy drums" approach.

I've seen these guys live, and frankly, they really sound good in a 'CLOSED ROOM' scenario.  I see a nice connection between the vocalist and the drummer because they are brother and sister - they practice a lot at home.  Hence I thought of tracking drums with the vocalist playing guitars as if it were live.  It added a dash of bleed to the drums which worked quite well.  (Had to check for silent passages with guitar though, otherwise I should have asked the drummer to turn off the snare during that part... but then again, digital editing makes it easier, and guitar overdubs can solve this snare wire bleed problem.

Maybe if we had a reference, maybe it would be more Foo Fighters' "Colour and The Shape", only rawer.  But I feel that Dinosaur Jr. had a better overall sound to be a reference to.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 04:57:12 PM by skunkyfunk »

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #98 on: July 11, 2007, 04:59:03 PM »
i have no doubt that the band is good at what they do.  will check out your reference tracks. 

yes most listeners equate hi-fi to professional sound because that is one thing professional sound has -- clarity. i was also into grunge and all the lo fi stuff way back in the 90's.  up to this day i can appreciate EXTREMELY that raw drum sound from radio head's high and dry.  beautiful.  like i said, if you want good raw drum sounds, everything has to sound right during the tracking stage. 

observation lang.  my ex-hubby came to me the other day with their recording and he mentioned that some tracks were supposed to sound raw, which was fine.  however, isn't weird that we all agree that generally our local recordings sound lo-fi compared to stuff from abroad ... so why must we even TRY to make it sound raw?  the way i see it, even when we're shooting for the stars we only tend to hit the moon.  sad to say that it comes quite naturally, so why try?
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline inigo

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: I NEED YOUR EARS!!! THE ACID TEST - Mastering Shootout
« Reply #99 on: July 11, 2007, 07:45:30 PM »
so why must we even TRY to make it sound raw?  the way i see it, even when we're shooting for the stars we only tend to hit the moon.  sad to say that it comes quite naturally, so why try?
Makikisingit...

Coz some songs aren't arranged and played to sound raw, and if they sounded raw, they'd sound sloppily recorded. Mix these songs with songs that are actually arranged and played to be sloppy, and, well, you know the story about tomatoes in a basket, and one of them is rotten?
400/hr recording. Banana Rising Recording Studio www.bananarising.com

SOUND SAMPLES: http://www.bananarising.com/p/sound-samples.html