An inquiry for Line 6 POD owners

[skunkyfunk]

given those situations, i'll tell the guy NOT to get a pod. happy?

The next question... In 10 different musical situations where guitar needs to be recorded, how many times do you have to NOT use the POD?  1x?  2x? 3x? 4x?  Experience will tell you 9 of 10 guitarplayers bring in pedals that they wanna use for recording.  What really makes the POD less ideal is because of modulation fx pedals. 

[starfugger]

given those situations, i'll tell the guy NOT to get a pod. happy?

The next question... In 10 different musical situations where guitar needs to be recorded, how many times do you have to NOT use the POD?  1x?  2x? 3x? 4x?  Experience will tell you 9 of 10 guitarplayers bring in pedals that they wanna use for recording.  What really makes the POD less ideal is because of modulation fx pedals. 

strangely, magkakaiba ang experiences natin.  gerry mentioned earlier in one of his posts that a seasoned musician will just ask to be plugged through a pod.  same goes with shinji's clients ... and they are not by any chance beginners.  in my experience naman guitarists come with their effects but end up using my amps and pedals if needed.  for some reason this thread inspired me enough to try DI guitar recording next time.

[astrobog]

tama na yabangan  

skunk, ok din style mo, pag may nag-inquire sayo about pod, sabihin mo na "sorry, wala akong pod, ayoko mag-pod, hanap kayo ng ibang studio! pero kung naghahanap kayo ng real amp sound, akong bahala!" dapat may studio din na ganon, di ba? pag may nag-inquire sa akin hanap ng real amp sound, irerefer kita promise!

wag na dito pag-usapan! gawin natin sariling style!

shinji

[skunkyfunk]

given those situations, i'll tell the guy NOT to get a pod. happy?

The next question... In 10 different musical situations where guitar needs to be recorded, how many times do you have to NOT use the POD?  1x?  2x? 3x? 4x?  Experience will tell you 9 of 10 guitarplayers bring in pedals that they wanna use for recording.  What really makes the POD less ideal is because of modulation fx pedals. 

strangely, magkakaiba ang experiences natin.  gerry mentioned earlier in one of his posts that a seasoned musician will just ask to be plugged through a pod.  same goes with shinji's clients ... and they are not by any chance beginners.  in my experience naman guitarists come with their effects but end up using my amps and pedals if needed.  for some reason this thread inspired me enough to try DI guitar recording next time.

Hazel, you have to deduce where the "I need a POD" request stems from.  Is it because the client is in a hurry to save studio time?  Or is it because the client knows he can get the BEST sound using a POD?  But if you have amps in your studio, how can one assess that the best sound comes from the POD if he hasn't tried a miked amp setup as well?

Teka mag-googoogle pa ako ng isasagot ko ulit.

[skunkyfunk]

tama na yabangan 

skunk, ok din style mo, pag may nag-inquire sayo about pod, sabihin mo na "sorry, wala akong pod, ayoko mag-pod, hanap kayo ng ibang studio! pero kung naghahanap kayo ng real amp sound, akong bahala!" dapat may studio din na ganon, di ba? pag may nag-inquire sa akin hanap ng real amp sound, irerefer kita promise!

wag na dito pag-usapan! gawin natin sariling style!

shinji

Shinji that was so nice of you, honestly.  I have referred many people to your studio even in the DA-88 days, baka di mo lang ako maalala.  May nagrecord pa nga sa inyo na mga high school girls for a Debut for a souvenir CD.  Some 3 years ago pa ata. 

Sa totoo lang, masarap bumili ng POD para sa studio kung hinahanap ng client.  Pero parang di ata ganun ang experience ko.  Yung pambili ko ng POD, gawin ko na lang pambili ng bagong Meek channel strip.

[marvinq]

my studio (which isn't for rent, by the way) can do a lot of things, but it cannot do everything.

for everything else, there's mastercard...

if my client needs a pod, i'll either rent one or refer him to shinji...

if they're amp freaks, i have a cheap one (a behringer tube amp), and if it'll do, then both of us are happy.

for clients who wanna contemplate on a lot of things, such as those you've mentioned, i'm assuming they have the budget for it, so i refer them to the studio where i'm employed, carmel house or gc4, where there are great rooms, and lots of high end equipment, and an in-house orchestra.

i guess the important thing would be to get a great performance from the artist being recorded. sometimes that means getting a pod (or not), an amp (or not), several amps and microphones, several drum kits, or even just leaving him alone for a little while while he perfects his line, or giving him coffee, water, or whatever. if they have the budget to afford you to go to the ends of the earth to search for the sound they want, then by all means, do so. if not, well, there is such thing as compromise, and finding that middle ground where everybody's rather happy...

[starfugger]

given those situations, i'll tell the guy NOT to get a pod. happy?

The next question... In 10 different musical situations where guitar needs to be recorded, how many times do you have to NOT use the POD?  1x?  2x? 3x? 4x?  Experience will tell you 9 of 10 guitarplayers bring in pedals that they wanna use for recording.  What really makes the POD less ideal is because of modulation fx pedals. 

strangely, magkakaiba ang experiences natin.  gerry mentioned earlier in one of his posts that a seasoned musician will just ask to be plugged through a pod.  same goes with shinji's clients ... and they are not by any chance beginners.  in my experience naman guitarists come with their effects but end up using my amps and pedals if needed.  for some reason this thread inspired me enough to try DI guitar recording next time.

Hazel, you have to deduce where the "I need a POD" request stems from.  Is it because the client is in a hurry to save studio time?  Or is it because the client knows he can get the BEST sound using a POD?  But if you have amps in your studio, how can one assess that the best sound comes from the POD if he hasn't tried a miked amp setup as well?

Teka mag-googoogle pa ako ng isasagot ko ulit.

Insert Quote
minsan kasi hindi na kailangan ng a/b.  if it sounds good, it IS good.  and saving on studio time is as much a valid endeavor as the quest for tone, hindi ba?

[skunkyfunk]

given those situations, i'll tell the guy NOT to get a pod. happy?

The next question... In 10 different musical situations where guitar needs to be recorded, how many times do you have to NOT use the POD?  1x?  2x? 3x? 4x?  Experience will tell you 9 of 10 guitarplayers bring in pedals that they wanna use for recording.  What really makes the POD less ideal is because of modulation fx pedals. 

strangely, magkakaiba ang experiences natin.  gerry mentioned earlier in one of his posts that a seasoned musician will just ask to be plugged through a pod.  same goes with shinji's clients ... and they are not by any chance beginners.  in my experience naman guitarists come with their effects but end up using my amps and pedals if needed.  for some reason this thread inspired me enough to try DI guitar recording next time.

Hazel, you have to deduce where the "I need a POD" request stems from.  Is it because the client is in a hurry to save studio time?  Or is it because the client knows he can get the BEST sound using a POD?  But if you have amps in your studio, how can one assess that the best sound comes from the POD if he hasn't tried a miked amp setup as well?

Teka mag-googoogle pa ako ng isasagot ko ulit.

Insert Quote
minsan kasi hindi na kailangan ng a/b.  if it sounds good, it IS good.  and saving on studio time is as much a valid endeavor as the quest for tone, hindi ba?

Enter PRE-PROD and re-Recordings.  A lot learn from mistakes of past recordings.  Honestly, if I see a client who is kinda headstrong with what he wants, I still don't fail to pointing him at other options for him to have a better assessment with the perceived output. And to avoid mistakes, mabuti na marinig ang lahat ng available options.

[marvinq]

well, the pod could be a helpful tool in the quest for tone. while it is not perfect, it is fairly accurate in representing the sounds of the amps. maybe that can help the one questing for "the sound" or "his sound" decide on which hardware components he really wants to get eventually. a lot of the stuff that the pod is trying to emulate are not cheap stuff, and any wrong purchases are going to be really expensive mistakes.

as i've said before, i've had a client who preferred the sound of a sax patch from a keyboard over the sound of the real sax. and he heard both. in other words, he was able to A/B them. people will prefer one sound over another, and there's no right and wrong when it comes to those things. they're subjective, and a matter of personal taste. but that client had to pay for the sax player's performance regardless of whether or not he liked it.

other options? well, there are endless other options. then there's physical possibility. and practicality.

seanw already pointed out that he didn't want to disturb his roommate. so there's really no use advicing him to get a real amp, unless he has money to build a separate room for the amp that'll sound good and not disturb his roommate...

[marvinq]

if only we could point out options to our clients at no extra cost to them...

...or us...

this world would be a better place.

[skunkyfunk]

as i've said before, i've had a client who preferred the sound of a sax patch from a keyboard over the sound of the real sax. and he heard both. in other words, he was able to A/B them. people will prefer one sound over another, and there's no right and wrong when it comes to those things. they're subjective, and a matter of personal taste. but that client had to pay for the sax player's performance regardless of whether or not he liked it.

He heard both -- that is the answer.  For whatever reason that he chose a sax patch on the keys, at least you know you gave him what you perceived as "the better option".

other options? well, there are endless other options. then there's physical possibility. and practicality.

Which makes me "worship" the old school engineers more.  How does it feel to bounce 4-tracks to stereo to another 4-track endlessly til the sound of the mix is lush?  How does it feel to mike up an uber-loud 100W tube amp cranked all the way up since that was the only available "dirt sound" at the time?  How does it feel to work with huge cymbals for more projection in rock scenarios because there wasn't such a thing as closed-miking in the 60s?  All these implied one thing - discipline in finding the right sound.  Now, with "Shortcuts" readily available, it is quite ironic that we can get some bad sounds on record.

seanw already pointed out that he didn't want to disturb his roommate. so there's really no use advicing him to get a real amp, unless he has money to build a separate room for the amp that'll sound good and not disturb his roommate...

If that is the case, why not go for a Tonelab?  Yamaha DG Stomp?  Yamaha DG-1000?  And a good friend of mine even mentioned the Fractal Audio Axe-FX.  They all do what the POD can do.

[starfugger]

i think marvin is right about the costs of a/b'ing.  sure i let a client a/b at no cost to him (lalo na if i feel another option would yield better results), pero hindi yon free sakin ... i still had to expend energy, time, electricty etc.  but of course we are all passionate about our craft so we do what is necessary.  

18 pages into this discussion i think it has been well established that a POD can be a serious piece of gear when used properly.  of course there is also no doubt in our minds that good amps kick ass.

[skunkyfunk]

if only we could point out options to our clients at no extra cost to them...

...or us...

this world would be a better place.

You know, I do that.  It is better to argue before recording things on disk, than arguing after everything had reached post prod.

[BALDO]

heto lang ang experience ko sa recording ng guitars..  nung una nag mic ako ng amp ( mesa boogie ) gamit  ang mic na sm 57 saka Neumann TLM 193 ( ambient mic) ok yung tunog... oo tama ka Dodgie..iba talaga ang tunog ng AMP na inirecord, iba ang movement ng speakers sa monitor at maganda tunog sa headpones at sa tingin ko e hindi  MAAARING ma rereproduce ng guitar effects pero nung mag record ako ulit gamit ang guitar effects ( same guitar ) sa second part ng guitar solo, hindi ko ma distinguish yung difference.. so WTF? napagod ako kaka hanap ng SWEET spot sa cabinet at halos maglabasan ang mga daga dito sa basement ko dahil sa lakas ng amp tapos pareho lang ang tunog so ngayon hindi na ako nag ma mic ng amp.. and by the way Zoom na 9150 yung guitar effects na yun.. nung binuksan ko dahil curious ako bakit ganun ang tunog, guess what? me tubo sa loob na 12AX7. .. wala pa akong POD na guitar effects pero dahil sa mga nadidinig ko about this piece, baka atakihin ako ng GAS...
ps
ang masasabi ko lang.. kung ano ang KAYA nilang bilin at HAPPY sila- let them be.. at sa pangwakas na masasabi ko, tama si shinji na kanya kanyang STYLE yan.. kung gusto nila yung tunog na low fi o hi fi, hitek o lo tek bahala sila..music is art walang tama walang mali lahat dapat ini enjoy yung creation ( musical).. PEACE!!!!  

[marvinq]

people have made bad records in the past too.

those records don't get heard today because nobody wants to listem to them.

good records are being made today too, using both the expensive methods and the cheap shortcuts.

they will still be listened to long after we're gone.

as for alternatives to the pod, well, i don't know any of those, but i've heard great sounds from the pod. that doesn't make my recommendation any less 'informed'.

Which makes me "worship" the old school engineers more.  How does it feel to bounce 4-tracks to stereo to another 4-track endlessly til the sound of the mix is lush?  How does it feel to mike up an uber-loud 100W tube amp cranked all the way up since that was the only available "dirt sound" at the time?  How does it feel to work with huge cymbals for more projection in rock scenarios because there wasn't such a thing as closed-miking in the 60s?  All these implied one thing - discipline in finding the right sound.  Now, with "Shortcuts" readily available, it is quite ironic that we can get some bad sounds on record.

seanw already pointed out that he didn't want to disturb his roommate. so there's really no use advicing him to get a real amp, unless he has money to build a separate room for the amp that'll sound good and not disturb his roommate...

If that is the case, why not go for a Tonelab?  Yamaha DG Stomp?  Yamaha DG-1000?  And a good friend of mine even mentioned the Fractal Audio Axe-FX.  They all do what the POD can do.

[starfugger]

if only we could point out options to our clients at no extra cost to them...

...or us...

this world would be a better place.

You know, I do that.  It is better to argue before recording things on disk, than arguing after everything had reached post prod.

ako din, pero minsan madalian ang trabaho ... tipong madaling araw na at gusto nang umiwi ng mga tao ... situations like that.  

[marvinq]

sometimes, the way to do your job properly is to do it AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, AS TROUBLE FREE AS POSSIBLE.

hazel, dagdagan pa natin...

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[KitC]

Wow! I just took my lunch and I come back to find this. All I can say is...

STOP ARGUING!!!

So you got a good thing going with your tube amps and whatever, skunk! That's fine with me and with the others. If other guys want to enjoy their Pods, LET THEM! You already posted your opinion, we heard it and it's fine with us. So for chrissakes, CHILL!

For the others, let's respect skunk way of doing things. That's HIS way and if he want to do it that way, LET HIM. As I said earlier, the proof is in the pudding. If he has happy clients, fine.

Here's a piece of advice lang, skunk. As an engineer, you should be flexible enough to adapt to any situation. If a client comes in with a Pod or any other ampsim, will you let him/her record in your studio? Think wisely before answering that. You should not let your personal preference rise above your client's wishes.

I'm sorely tempted to lock this thread because of personal attacks. I let this discussion continue because a lot if valuable information was being put on the table. However, if the mudslinging continues, I will be forced to act accordingly.

[starfugger]

haha marvin i shall prepare myself for some serious Secret talk tomorrow.  kakatuwa no?  

ako naman sa tingin ko immediate requirement dito sa forum is peace peace peace.

[rakrakan]

strangely, magkakaiba ang experiences natin.  gerry mentioned earlier in one of his posts that a seasoned musician will just ask to be plugged through a pod.  same goes with shinji's clients ... and they are not by any chance beginners.  in my experience naman guitarists come with their effects but end up using my amps and pedals if needed.  for some reason this thread inspired me enough to try DI guitar recording next time.

Hazel, can't go wrong with DI'ng guitars. I always make it a point to get a DI signal (safety) which we can be re-amped later - should the mix call for it. It's not seldom that artists can get carried away while tracking and record a lot of stuff that don't fit the song come mix time. At the end of the day, it's about the song.

Sige, tuloy lang ninyo yung mga OT at ismiran, nakakatuwa na nakakainis din.

[starfugger]

LOL gerry.  o nga tama ka if there's any major advantage to direct guitar recording it's having the option to "reamp" ITB.  mas maganda pa kung may extra hardware to reamp using a hardware amp later diba?  as madaming options na magpapatagal sa proseso, LOL.  pero i really don't mind as long as as i know i made the right choice, like skunk said   best to do something like that during one's spare time, when one wants to experiment on a different mix. 

[rakrakan]

sometimes, the way to do your job properly is to do it AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, AS TROUBLE FREE AS POSSIBLE.

amen to that Marvin, OPTION OVERLOAD aka ANALYSIS PARALYSIS is the worst thing that can befell any endeavor, specially recording projects. First cut is the deepest. hehehe.

[marvinq]

hey kit, don't you dare lock this thread. i know where you live. haha.

@hazel - you're right about the peace thing. moreso for the guitar forums. hah! guitar players and their tools... hehe

gerry's method would be the best of both worlds... if you really like the sound of a miked amp, you can do that after the pod-user has left...

[marvinq]

sometimes, the way to do your job properly is to do it AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, AS TROUBLE FREE AS POSSIBLE.

amen to that Marvin, OPTION OVERLOAD aka ANALYSIS PARALYSIS is the worst thing that can befell any endeavor, specially recording projects. First cut is the deepest. hehehe.

yes, gerry, there's a certain magic with the earlier takes... still haven't found a satisfying explanation as to why, but i know for a fact that this is true.

[starfugger]

hey kit, don't you dare lock this thread. i know where you live. haha.

@hazel - you're right about the peace thing. moreso for the guitar forums. hah! guitar players and their tools... hehe

gerry's method would be the best of both worlds... if you really like the sound of a miked amp, you can do that after the pod-user has left...

im pretty lucky that my amps have a direct recording output (both the fender de ville and the mesa f-50, thank god!) and when i usually capture the direct signal most of the time, but end up not even trying to reamp ITB because of ... tada ... option overload (as gerry mentioned).