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Author Topic: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.  (Read 25661 times)

Offline vhunter

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Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« on: July 30, 2007, 05:19:55 PM »
I always thought wiring was either modern or vintage, 500k pots for humbuckers and 250k pots for single coils. Man was I wrong. I just realized you can use 250k pots with humbuckers to get a more warm and bassy sound. It doesnt boost the bass but rather kills some highs pronouncing the mids and bass. I was so surprised to learn this. Basically, with 500k pots I found that my guitar sounded a little hars.. ala page... but with the 250k pots.. it was more santana ish. It still had the bite and all but was really meaty.

What kind of pots do you guys use on your guitars .. how is it wired and why? I know there are some electronic whizzes here...and alot of this has to do with loading. Could you explain how it works... and how do different configurations help the sound.. and lastly what the hell do the 3 lugs do in a pot?

TNKS TNKS :D



Offline Poundcake

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 07:27:14 PM »
in a nutshell, the larger the value of the potentiometer, the brighter your tone will be. i usually install 500k pots to my humbucker-equipped guitars and 250k for my Strat/Tele. i tried using a 1 MΩ potentiometer with my EVH Wolfgang before and i enjoyed it for a while. it really gave me a bright tone that and it sort of functioned as a booster as well. i just changed my pot to 500k because i haven't been playing hard rock that much lately and i didn't need the "boosting." nowadays, i just use CTS or Callaham cryo pots.

i usually add a treble bleed capacitor/resistor combination in parallel with the left terminal (with the pot's back facing you) and the wiper of my volume pot to change how the pot responds. my favorite combination for 250k pots is a .001F Mallory cap in parallel with a 150KΩ precision resistor. the highs are retained even if you roll off the volume pot and the taper response is more linear. connecting the resistor in series just lessens the current flow through the potentiometer, considerably varying the tonality while maintaining its logarithmic taper. for 500KΩ pots, i use a .002F Mallory cap with no resistor in parallel.

the potentiometer's three lugs or legs are it's terminals. the left leg (with the knob facing you) is terminal A, the middle leg is the wiper terminal and the right leg is terminal B. the reason why the wires going to the output jack of the guitar are connected to the wiper and terminal B is because we'd want the potentiometer to have near-zero resistance (absolute zero resistance is ideal but very hard to achieve) when the pot's knob is turned fully clockwise and to have full resistance (e.g. 250KΩ, 500KΩ, etc.) when the knob is turned all the way to the left. the standard guitar pot (rotational type) has a movement angle of 270 from end to end. connecting the output wire to terminal A and the wiper will just reverse the orientation (full resistance at fully clockwise position, near-zero resistance at fully counterclockwise position).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 10:40:06 AM by Poundcake »
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Offline ritch_079

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 11:45:16 PM »
in a nutshell, the larger the value of the potentiometer, the brighter your tone will be. i usually install 500k pots to my humbucker-equipped guitars and 250k for my Strat/Tele. i tried using a 1 MΩ potentiometer with my EVH Wolfgang before and i enjoyed it for a while. it really gave me a bright tone that and it sort of functioned as a booster as well. i just changed my pot to 500k because i haven't been playing hard rock that much lately and i didn't need the "boosting." nowadays, i just use CTS or Callaham cryo pots.

so ung pick up mo, kaht na round and tubular ung sound will sound strat type brilliant kung 500k pots ilalagay?
i'm gassing for a pair of dmz pups kasi, and i dont know which one to choose.. so almost any pup, pag nilagyan ng 500k pot sa tone magiging brilliant?

sori, clueless talaga ako, bago palang ako sa ganitong stuff.. regarding naman sa capacitor and resistor, ano pba ibang choices? thanks.. :D

Offline Targa_midbass

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2007, 03:53:42 AM »
in a nutshell, the larger the value of the potentiometer, the brighter your tone will be. i usually install 500k pots to my humbucker-equipped guitars and 250k for my Strat/Tele. i tried using a 1 MΩ potentiometer with my EVH Wolfgang before and i enjoyed it for a while. it really gave me a bright tone that and it sort of functioned as a booster as well. i just changed my pot to 500k because i haven't been playing hard rock that much lately and i didn't need the "boosting." nowadays, i just use CTS or Callaham cryo pots.

so ung pick up mo, kaht na round and tubular ung sound will sound strat type brilliant kung 500k pots ilalagay?
i'm gassing for a pair of dmz pups kasi, and i dont know which one to choose.. so almost any pup, pag nilagyan ng 500k pot sa tone magiging brilliant?

sori, clueless talaga ako, bago palang ako sa ganitong stuff.. regarding naman sa capacitor and resistor, ano pba ibang choices? thanks.. :D
IMO a larger-valued potentiometer will make the guitar sound hotter and louder. :-)
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Online vegetablejoe

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 06:09:57 AM »
vhunter,

just out of curiosity, do the historics come with 300K pots?

...and just a thought.... maybe a 250K no-load pot would be a happy compromise between usng 250K and 500K pots.



Offline blue buddha

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2007, 10:27:04 AM »
Historics usually come with 500k's wired in -- it's the standard line in which you find the 300k's. I've read somewhere it's because the 300k's (being closer to 250k's) instantly produce the more meaty sounds vhunter refers to when all controls are dimed. This is the sound more commonly associated with gibbys since the late 70's when rock became "harder" and heavier.

Personally, I prefer the wiring and the values Poundcake describes, but I don't bother with the resistor -- I'm ok with the narrower taper response of the pot. That's the way I wire most of my modern Gibbys. I find that there's added versatility in a guitar that's overly bright rather than one that's "just bright enough" because you can always dial off excess brightness through the guitar's tone knob or the amp. Also, you never know what amp you might be forced to plug into at a gig -- an overly dark sounding amp would be the death of anyone whose guitar is "just bright enough" with everything dimed. This capacity for brightness with your gibbys is key for certain genres like R&B, blues, and pop if you don't have the luxury of constantly changing guitars mid-set.

Corollary to all of that is how you normally set the controls on the guitar. I almost never start off by diming the guitar. Usually, volume's on 7 and tone's on 7 or 8 when looking for the sound and setting the level I want from the amp. This gives you a hell of a lot more latitude to play clean or dirty, thin or meaty on the fly by just twiddling the knobs on the guitar throughout the course of a song in response to how the rest of the band sounds. YMMV of course.

Offline koji

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 08:53:51 AM »
guys help naman please.. hassle kasi pumunta pa sa mga guitar techs e baka pwede ko naman gawin by myself.. the problem is this.. bigla lang nawala yung sound nung mid pup(dimarzio blue velvet) sa H-S-H guitar ko.. i tested the two(red and black) output terminals using a continuity tester and it seems wala namang putol.. then i sprayed like a whole can of contact cleaner on the whole electronics( vol pot, tone pot, selector) pero after that wala pa rin.. naubusan na ako ng ideas on what to do.. can anyone help me or give me ideas?!.. thanks a lot dudes!!..  :-)
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Offline st0mpb0x_bahista

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2007, 09:26:20 AM »
sir koji try mo tong way ko ng pag troubleshoot hehehe, una sir gamit kapo ng multitester (ohmmeter range x1) check mo yung ground connection ng mid pickup sa ground ng output jack (check mo minsan dahil sa cold solder nawawala connection niya), pag ok naman proceed kasa 2nd step, try mo idesolder yung positive pickup lead ng mid pickup sa lug ng mid pickup selector, icheck mo naman yung continuity ng mid pickup selector sa positive lead ng output jack (gamit kapa rin ng ohmmeter range x1), minsan kasi dumudumi yung connection ng pickup selector kaya suspect din to pag nawawala yung tunog ng pickup. hehe eto na yung pinakalast desolder mo na yung pickup leads sa selector tapos check mo na yung continuity ng coil gamit ka ng ohmmeter range x10, pag ok naman yung resistance reading niya hehe ibig sabihin ok yung condition ng pickups mo, pero pag infinite yung reading niya (0 ohms) sir shorted yung pickup coil mo. pag walang reading ng resistance yung pickups may possibility na busted yung coil ng pickups mo.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 09:35:58 AM by st0mpb0x_bahista »

Offline vhunter

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2007, 10:02:29 AM »
historics come with 500k pots. I personally dont like them so much because the taper isnt that great. It sounds good on 10 but the range from 4-10 makes almost no difference with a sudden drop off. I switch them out for 550k pots and get better caps. That helps the guitar alot... But yeah, its a very open sounding tone you get from that kind of rig. More mids and highs.

I wouldnt think you get more of anything ... just less of something (coz its not active) when you change the value of your pots so blue buddah may have a point about running the pots at 7 to get the equivalent of a 300k pot. Problem is ... the taper is not the same. As you cut the volume on a 550k pot you lose more highs as you roll down causing the lower end of the spectrum to sound muffled... also the bass gets flubby. With a 250k pot you have a more gradual slope of frequency drops ass you roll down the volume.

Both have their applications and are great. Im thinking if you have a very bright rig, a 250k pot might help... if you have an overly dark rig 550's may do the trick. But what i did realize is that on the high frets (when noodling around) 250's sound much much sweeter and meaty. 550's tend to sound harsh... lol... wish i could have the frequency response of a 550 for riffing around and the sound of a 250 for soloing.

I think it also depends on what type of music your playing. If your into pop/classic rock stuff... I think a 500 setup would be great so you can cut the mix. For metal though... i think 250k pots would add extra body and ummmph specially for a 1 guitarist setup (like me). BTW ... the baker came with 250k's all around. I found it really weird... so now im all up for experimenting coz it was a really nice surprise.

Offline st0mpb0x_bahista

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 01:02:33 PM »
mga sir dapat din po iconsider yung tone at characteristic ng pickup mismo, sa tingin ko ito ang may malaking factor talaga sa tone ng gitara, sumunod sa tone wood type ng gitara.

Offline PRSMan

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 01:43:38 PM »
vhunter -- how's #59 doing?  still loving it i'm sure!

got a question for you and the rest.  i'm planning to replace the pots of one of my singlecuts.  have you guys tried the stuff from rs guitarworks?  if so, sulit ba?  cts makes their stuff and supposedly specially designed yung sa kanila.  is that true?  or am i okay going for "regular" cts pots?

Offline koji

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2007, 01:56:33 PM »
sir koji try mo tong way ko ng pag troubleshoot hehehe, una sir gamit kapo ng multitester (ohmmeter range x1) check mo yung ground connection ng mid pickup sa ground ng output jack (check mo minsan dahil sa cold solder nawawala connection niya), pag ok naman proceed kasa 2nd step, try mo idesolder yung positive pickup lead ng mid pickup sa lug ng mid pickup selector, icheck mo naman yung continuity ng mid pickup selector sa positive lead ng output jack (gamit kapa rin ng ohmmeter range x1), minsan kasi dumudumi yung connection ng pickup selector kaya suspect din to pag nawawala yung tunog ng pickup. hehe eto na yung pinakalast desolder mo na yung pickup leads sa selector tapos check mo na yung continuity ng coil gamit ka ng ohmmeter range x10, pag ok naman yung resistance reading niya hehe ibig sabihin ok yung condition ng pickups mo, pero pag infinite yung reading niya (0 ohms) sir shorted yung pickup coil mo. pag walang reading ng resistance yung pickups may possibility na busted yung coil ng pickups mo.
thanks a lot sa tulong mo bro.. try ko agad yung tips mo pagbalik ko sa bahay from work.. more power!..  :-D
"mabuhay ang gitaristang pinoy rakenrowl.."

Offline ritch_079

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2007, 02:14:08 PM »
diba ung mga capacitors may factor rin sa tone ng guitar? ano po diff nila sa isa't isa? does certain pups sound better sa ibang caps? or kaht na anong caps pwde sa kahit anong pups.. thanks..

Offline vhunter

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2007, 02:20:32 PM »
RS is the way to go! It's a little bit mroe expensive but you get a lesser deviation from spec. Buying cts pots can ragne you anywhere from 450 to 550. Luck of the draw lang talaga. RS 550 pots are +/- 10 so you have tighter tolerances. The taper is also really nice. Even control throughout the sweep. I used to have them on all my les pauls. Im putting a set in my r9 now.. should be back tomorrow. :D

For singlecuts... id suggest you buy a 550kit and also get 2 extra 280k pots (for volume) just to experiment.

Offline schnitzerz4

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 05:09:31 AM »
mga sir eto po stupid question okay po ba itong mga pickups na ito? di pa ako kasi nakakaexperience magkaroon ng
ibang pickups lahat sila yung stock lang nung guitar hehehehe hanggang sa mabenta di pa napapalitan =)
i want to order this one sana okay po ba sya? tsaka po pala yung pots ano po maganda kunin? para abay sabay na order =)

thanks po =) eto po pala yung pickups =) or baka may suggestion pa kayo na mas okay =) thanks

DiMarzio DP182 Fast Track 2 Pickup
DiMarzio DP117 HS-3 Guitar Pickup
DiMarzio DP415 Area '58 Pickup

Offline progressive_pilipinas

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 05:40:37 AM »
ive checked my guitar and found 500k pots already installed in it.

Honestly, i dont know why i should change the pots or its wiring. I dont understand a thing about these things. Could someone give me some info on this or links instead. Thanks.


EDIT:

i found this link. Helpful i guess.

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/potm.htm

in a nutshell, the larger the value of the potentiometer, the brighter your tone will be. i usually install 500k pots to my humbucker-equipped guitars and 250k for my Strat/Tele. i tried using a 1 MΩ potentiometer with my EVH Wolfgang before and i enjoyed it for a while. it really gave me a bright tone that and it sort of functioned as a booster as well. i just changed my pot to 500k because i haven't been playing hard rock that much lately and i didn't need the "boosting." nowadays, i just use CTS or Callaham cryo pots.

i usually add a treble bleed capacitor/resistor combination in parallel with the left terminal (with the pot's back facing you) and the wiper of my volume pot to change how the pot responds. my favorite combination for 250k pots is a .001F Mallory cap in parallel with a 150KΩ precision resistor. the highs are retained even if you roll off the volume pot and the taper response is more linear. connecting the resistor in series just lessens the current flow through the potentiometer, considerably varying the tonality while maintaining its logarithmic taper. for 500KΩ pots, i use a .002F Mallory cap with no resistor in parallel.

the potentiometer's three lugs or legs are it's terminals. the left leg (with the knob facing you) is terminal A, the middle leg is the wiper terminal and the right leg is terminal B. the reason why the wires going to the output jack of the guitar are connected to the wiper and terminal B is because we'd want the potentiometer to have near-zero resistance (absolute zero resistance is ideal but very hard to achieve) when the pot's knob is turned fully clockwise and to have full resistance (e.g. 250KΩ, 500KΩ, etc.) when the knob is turned all the way to the left. the standard guitar pot (rotational type) has a movement angle of 270 from end to end. connecting the output wire to terminal A and the wiper will just reverse the orientation (full resistance at fully clockwise position, near-zero resistance at fully counterclockwise position).


You did all these by yourself? well ive read some and would like to apply that treble bleed-something to my guitar. But i just dont know how to do it. links?sites? thanks bro!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 05:47:30 AM by progressive_pilipinas »
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Offline st0mpb0x_bahista

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 07:31:45 AM »
sir progressive try mo lang yung nsa pic sa site. gawin mo to sa volume control ng gitara tapos try mo yung capacitor/resistor values na ginagamit ni sir poundcake for treble bleed


« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 07:33:13 AM by st0mpb0x_bahista »

Offline Poundcake

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 09:04:00 AM »
You did all these by yourself? well ive read some and would like to apply that treble bleed-something to my guitar. But i just dont know how to do it. links?sites? thanks bro!

yup :)

try this site: http://www.bothner.co.za/articles/volumepot2.shtml
"The LORD will save me, and we will play my music on stringed instruments all the days of our lives, at the house of the LORD." Isaiah 38:20

Offline ritch_079

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 02:22:56 PM »
san po mkakahanap ng treble bleed caps? capacitors rin ba yan like the ones being sold sa deeco?
parehas ba yan sa orange drops? sa epektos.com? :D

Offline progressive_pilipinas

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2007, 09:12:37 PM »
You did all these by yourself? well ive read some and would like to apply that treble bleed-something to my guitar. But i just dont know how to do it. links?sites? thanks bro!

yup :)

try this site: http://www.bothner.co.za/articles/volumepot2.shtml

thanks bro.  :-)

@ st0mpb0x_bahista

yes bro. thanks.  :-)
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Offline fraudulentzodiac

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 01:24:19 PM »
wow sa tagal kong di nag-OL may ganitong thread na pala, anyway comments on the new Fender S-1 Switching system anyone?

Offline tejadster

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2007, 09:09:51 PM »
meron kse akong strat 3 single coil may masusugest ba kayo na wiring? at ano yung tunog na kalalabasan?
 :-D :-D

Offline reps

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2007, 09:17:45 PM »
sir progressive try mo lang yung nsa pic sa site. gawin mo to sa volume control ng gitara tapos try mo yung capacitor/resistor values na ginagamit ni sir poundcake for treble bleed



Are those orange drops? BTW, what do orange drops and other capacitors do?  :?
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Offline pizarro84

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2007, 09:21:07 PM »
Mga sir just got a push pull pot, tanong ko lang kung ano ba ang diagram nung mga pins nun, 6 pin pi sha (yung push pull module). Naghahanap po kasi ako ng diagram nun (which pin is connected to who pag naka push or naka pull) wala ako mahanap sa net. Thanks

Offline tejadster

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Re: Thread on wiring, Pots, Pickups and the such.
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2007, 09:30:24 PM »
Mga sir just got a push pull pot, tanong ko lang kung ano ba ang diagram nung mga pins nun, 6 pin pi sha (yung push pull module). Naghahanap po kasi ako ng diagram nun (which pin is connected to who pag naka push or naka pull) wala ako mahanap sa net. Thanks
saan mo na bili yung push pull pot? oo nga saan ko ilalagay yung wires nun? balak ko kseng gawin yung richie sambora strat wiring...