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Author Topic: "Tasty Fillings"  (Read 4442 times)

Offline Bammbamm

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"Tasty Fillings"
« on: August 02, 2007, 10:40:08 AM »
 :-D  When  and How do you make them?.....and when not to?   :wink:


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Offline daemonite

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 11:38:55 AM »
for me, usually after the stanza before the chorus, before / after the bridge, tapos sa mga fade out ng kanta.

when not to.... sa gitna ng stanza kapag ine-emote ng vocals yung kanta. nakakasira ng feel ng song, kapag di mo matiis magfill, gamit ka na lang ng splash or chimes hehehehe....
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Offline Bammbamm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2007, 01:30:43 PM »
^^^uhmm....that's quite obvious...okish, let's make it a bit 'technical'....how do you make 'em fills tasty, unique, and original ?

How do you make them 'connect' with the basic groove of the song?..or create 'tension' without sounding too far out?  :wink:

Dont you notice that most (not all) pop music have very similar fills/feel.... :roll:.... very predictable?....or they're meant to be that way because it's 'pop'?  :|

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Offline daemonite

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 01:44:46 PM »
yup, most of the pop music pareho ang fills nya, tug padudug dug. hehehe. siguro mas ine-emphasize nila ang vocals kaya parang basic grooves lang ang ginagamit.

pero kung pano mo sya gawin kasarap-sarap, experimentation na lang yan. usually i practice fills before i put them in live gigs kasi mahirap sumabit. about being unique and original, siguro thorough research na lang. experiment ka rin, baliktadin mo mga patterns and if it sounds good, eh di bagong fill na yun hehehe....
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Offline Bammbamm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 02:05:47 PM »
Im trying to learn and apply this metric modulation thing sa fills eh...pareho din ba sya nung  tinatawag na beat displacement?

Anyone here have seen Gavin Harrison's instructional video entitled Rhythmic Visions?

Rhythmic Illusion is the title of one of his books...sorry!  :oops:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 09:04:08 AM by Bammbamm »
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Offline bugoy_king

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 06:49:01 PM »
Magkaiba yung metric modulation at beat displacement.

This is my personal take:

Beat displacement is how the notes are spread out over the bar(s). Yung metric modulation is parang playing in a different time signature while still inside the time signature of the tune. Weird concept siya, madalas maririnig yan kay Vinnie Colaiuta. Parang tumutugtog ka ng 5/8 pero nasa loob parin ng 4/4. Hehe, weird talaga siya, di ko rin maintindihan gaano, much more magawa.


Offline feed_back

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 08:28:03 PM »
i love the three two fill na ginagawa ng friend ko hindi ko pa makuha yung attitude ng fill pero astig egoy na egoy hehehe
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Offline kibohead

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 08:32:30 PM »
i have a gavin harisson. ok yung displacement, but it's also nice if the guitar line itself displaces notes tapos ikaw mismo ang nag-lalaro lang sa 4/4. :-) or let's make an example...pde din yung guitar lines play 6/8 tapos the bassist and ikaw plays 7/4. ganda ng effect. drum displacements are nice but somehow affects the grrove, lalo na pag-song based ang habol ng band...but i dig you bamm, ok ang displacements...so does linear drumming.

Offline bugoy_king

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 08:38:02 PM »
Ito may example ng metric modulation na galing kay Vinnie Colaiuta. Uhmm...complicated lang masyado para sa akin hehehe. There's a link for an .mp3 sample in the page

http://www.vinniecolaiuta.com/articles/smm.aspx

Offline palolo_worm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 11:38:22 PM »
Im trying to learn and apply this metric modulation thing sa fills eh...pareho din ba sya nung  tinatawag na beat displacement?

Anyone here have seen Gavin Harrison's instructional video entitled Rhythmic Illusion?

mmm. sa pagkakaintindi ko, ung metric modulation ay pagmomodulate (or pagiiba) ng metro. tama ba? :) if so, medyo may ginagawa akong thingy dun. example, meron kameng kanta na ang metro ng guitars and bass ay 7/4 + 5/4. pero ako, tumutog ako ng 3 bars of 4/4. un ba ung metric modulation? :)

tapos beat displacement, i think medyo in line siya back beat, or kung ano man ung beat na nakasanayan sa kanta. kunwari sa rock, 2 at 4 ung snare, moving it to another count displaces it. :) matagal ko nang napagaralan ung term na to, kaya nalimutan ko na. ahahaha.

anyways, sa paggawa ng tasty fillings sa tinapay, usually peanut butter ok na sa akin. hahaa.
pero seriously, i take my phrasing seriously when making fills.

Offline Bammbamm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 09:36:54 AM »
Salamat sa mga replies nyo mga braderrs! :-)

@ Palolo;  Yes, I guess beat displacement and metric modulation are two different thing. Beat displacement nga yung down beat ilalagay mo sa upbeat, and vice-versa, or madi-delay or advance sya ng 16th, quarter or 8th note.....mag Chips-ahoy nlang siguro ako... :-D

@ Bugoy_King;

Yung metric modulation.... :roll:....di ba parang nag d-double or half time ka ?.. :oops:...or  magkaiba ng grouping ng mga notes mo; like your playing group of, let's say seven or five sa hihats, but you're still playing the typical 2 and 4 on the snare...?..tama ba  :?
 :roll:

@ Kibohead;  Lalo  mo ata ako pinahirapan dun ah, odd-time.. :-D


But thanks again sa lahat ng nag reply! Keep 'em comin'.
God bless!   :-)
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Offline bugoy_king

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 11:28:36 AM »

@ Bugoy_King;

Yung metric modulation.... :roll:....di ba parang nag d-double or half time ka ?.. :oops:...or  magkaiba ng grouping ng mga notes mo; like your playing group of, let's say seven or five sa hihats, but you're still playing the typical 2 and 4 on the snare...?..tama ba  :?
 :roll:


Hmmm, hindi ata eh, yung tunog lang nun parang nag half time kaya nakaka-deceive, pero pag tiningnan mo yung chart nung kay Colaiuta, kung saan-saan bumabagsak yung "backbeat" nya (the "&" of 2, "&" of 1, "&" of 4, "&" of 1, respectively, according to example #2 in the previous link). Yung tunog nya parang nag half-time shuffle, pero di nagbago yung 4/4 at yung tempo nya.

Hahaha, weird talaga, baka mali rin ako ha, di ko rin fully grasp yung concept, I'm just sharing what I think is happening. Anyway, gaya din ng sinabi ni Colaiuta, just fool around, huwag nalang natin isipin yung technical details masyado, lest mawalan ng sarap at pagka human feel

Offline kibohead

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2007, 12:10:19 PM »
to understand more of metric modulations bamm...i suggest you get steve smith's "drumset techniques", and if you want to learn displacement, i suggest you get gavin harrison's "rythm illusions". displacements are better practiced with a metronome... subdivisions might also play a vital role. goodluck there bro! :-)
and if you're also interested to afro cuban playing and clave(2-3 and 3-2, fast mambo and so on)...hehehe i think you should get "funkyfying the clave" by robie ameen and lincoln goines, it's a bass and drum lesson.

godbless...sayang di tayo nag-meet pa sa EBs  :-)

Offline Bammbamm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2007, 01:20:24 PM »
@ Kibohead & Bugoy_king;

Thank you very much guys.

Bugoy, Yes, I guess I shouldn't bother too much about technical details, but spend more time listening and learning the right feel instead. Thanks, man!

Kibo, that's where Im focusing right now; metronome in 90 bps, make a solid groove, then mess up with the time..lol! Luckily, Im able to go back to 'one' most of the time. :-D  ...pero check ko din ulit yung vid ni S.Smith mamaya..

....Its gonna be another GAS relapse for that Funkyfying the Clave lesson, may play-along na kasama yun diba?

I'll see you at EB, hopefully sa Feb next year!

Salamat ulit!

God Bless  :-)
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Offline inigo

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 02:21:26 PM »
I never knew fills got scientific! :D

Limited ang vocabulary ko sa filling so...

All I know is, fills fill, as in nagtatakip ng butas. Kung may butas, pwedeng i-fill. Pag may laman na, you might overspill, which is good if you intend to saturate that particular part.

Slower off beat (but meets the metro eventually) e.g. 3s or 5s on 4/4 if I want to attract attention to the bagsak right after, as a transition.

Rigid to the count (e.g. quarters on 4/4) if I want to just continue the previous feel without attracting much attention. Or, if I want to accentuate or re-establish the current feel. Faster if I want to cue a different section but still retaining the feel.

Fills that continue till the bagsak are meant to maintain he momentum or gradually slide it up or down. Fills that leave a space before the bagsak are meant to accentuate the bagsak.

Dynamics would depend on whether I want to build up, tear down, or maintain the intensity of the overall poste.

Yun na lang muna. Practice muna ako. Hehehe.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 02:23:08 PM by inigo »
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Offline meinldrummer

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2007, 02:29:40 PM »
Metric modulation ok yan!!! :-D
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Offline kibohead

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2007, 07:15:10 PM »
understanding the lyrics and mood might also help you create the appropriate fill for the song... ok tumugtog ng galing sa dibdib diba? iba talaga yun, but hindi rin masama pag-isipan din ang fills na i-execute para walang masagasaan na part at hindi masapawan ang ginagawa ng ka-miyembro.

for me fills are a way of bridging the music, it doesn't have to be technical all the time. as long as it sounds good to my ears and bandmates...ok na sa akin yun. :-)

ok din to listen and study other drummers especially who play different genres...dami ka matututunan and it also allows you to patch some fills...fuse them together to create a good sound. tulad ng rossana groove which was a combination of bonham and purdie's shuffle. :-)

Offline drummer_boy17

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2007, 09:12:45 PM »
pag feel na feel mo yun music di mo maiiwasan na mg lagay ng mga ibang fills.
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Offline franco

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2007, 10:18:55 PM »
I never knew fills got scientific! :D

Limited ang vocabulary ko sa filling so...

All I know is, fills fill, as in nagtatakip ng butas. Kung may butas, pwedeng i-fill. Pag may laman na, you might overspill, which is good if you intend to saturate that particular part.

Slower off beat (but meets the metro eventually) e.g. 3s or 5s on 4/4 if I want to attract attention to the bagsak right after, as a transition.

Rigid to the count (e.g. quarters on 4/4) if I want to just continue the previous feel without attracting much attention. Or, if I want to accentuate or re-establish the current feel. Faster if I want to cue a different section but still retaining the feel.

Fills that continue till the bagsak are meant to maintain he momentum or gradually slide it up or down. Fills that leave a space before the bagsak are meant to accentuate the bagsak.

Dynamics would depend on whether I want to build up, tear down, or maintain the intensity of the overall poste.

Yun na lang muna. Practice muna ako. Hehehe.


sakto yan boy! mas malagkit yung palo pag di naeexagerrate yung tasty licks/fills
if you can't join them, beat them!

Offline Bammbamm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2007, 03:27:09 PM »
I never knew fills got scientific! :D

Limited ang vocabulary ko sa filling so...

All I know is, fills fill, as in nagtatakip ng butas. Kung may butas, pwedeng i-fill. Pag may laman na, you might overspill, which is good if you intend to saturate that particular part.

Slower off beat (but meets the metro eventually) e.g. 3s or 5s on 4/4 if I want to attract attention to the bagsak right after, as a transition.

Rigid to the count (e.g. quarters on 4/4) if I want to just continue the previous feel without attracting much attention. Or, if I want to accentuate or re-establish the current feel. Faster if I want to cue a different section but still retaining the feel.

Fills that continue till the bagsak are meant to maintain he momentum or gradually slide it up or down. Fills that leave a space before the bagsak are meant to accentuate the bagsak.

Dynamics would depend on whether I want to build up, tear down, or maintain the intensity of the overall poste.

Yun na lang muna. Practice muna ako. Hehehe.

You got it there , bro.  Mag c-create ka ng tension by playing fills na medyo hindi ine-expect ng nakikinig na babagsak sya ng sakto sa 'one'...yung tipong mapapa-angat sa upuan yung makakarinig, lilingon sayo yung ka banda mo,... sabay pag palo mo ng cymbal saktong sakto sya sa bagsakan- Bang!...relief!   :-D

Maganda to pag patapos na yung adlib ng guitara tapos may break sa dulo, then balik uli sa verse, pero between verses..ewan ko lang kung matuwa yung vocalist sa'yo.  :lol:


You can check out the song And Justice for All by Metallica, ang galing ng ginawa ni Lars Ulrich dun mismo sa kanta na yun, saka yung drum solo part sa Ducks & Cookies ni Nils Gessinger.  :-)
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Offline drummerboy827

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2007, 09:30:54 AM »
I find Josh Freese's fills creative. Lagi nakakaiba. Also Danny Carey, his fills are musical and technical at the same time.  8-)
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Offline sunny

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2007, 01:39:55 AM »
To me, you do your tasty fills(simple or complex) when you want to,or its time to present the next part of (or end) the song or present or end the solo of your band member...

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« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 02:50:17 AM by sunny »

Offline toybitz

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2007, 02:28:03 AM »
imho...

fills becomes tasty when put in the right place...when it serves a song...

if a songs needs more..then by no means it does give me goosebumps where and whenever it's struck..same if a song needs less..

example of more is from the band Temple of the Dog, song is Your Saviour (Matt Cameron)...

and less...U2's With or Without You (Larry Mullen) just right...a beat before Bono sings "whoa..."
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Offline Bammbamm

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2007, 08:55:52 AM »
Yung groove sa intro ni Carter Beauford sa kantang Grey Street ng Dave Matthews Band, tapos fill bago magsimula yung verse.....always amazes me. :-)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 10:12:04 AM by Bammbamm »
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Offline BiliBidboy

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Re: "Tasty Fillings"
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 10:02:10 AM »
for me a long buzz usually does the trick! cguro depende din sa song. sakit kse ng mga drummers ang "KATI" sa pag lagay..minsan overplaying na ang ending...  :mrgreen:
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