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Author Topic: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?  (Read 21306 times)

Offline firemodel55

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Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« on: August 06, 2007, 09:53:46 PM »
Because their last priority is sound!!!

Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds.  What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion?  Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC.  Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound.  Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel.  What the...?  Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap?  Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY.  Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.

Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date.  And yet, why the hell didn't he design the 5150 to sound as good as the EVH III?  I bought one Peavey 5150 head and good riddance.  I had enough sense to realize that it sounded inferior to the amp that it was copying.  So,stay tuned for EVH XX? Now for all I care, it could be the best sounding amp head for US$2,000 but my point is that when will artists finally deliver sincere goods that have no attachments of endorsement deals and free equipment and when will they stop putting their names on amps, effects and guitars that they know they will outgrow in the future.  The number 1 offender is Fender which started this and Gibson as a close number 2.  PRS is also starting to this today.  By the way, I have heard more crappy sounding Santana  USA guitars than good sounding ones.  Fender YJM has its lastest incarnation now which according to a close YJM fan friend of mine who was able to test 4 new models a few weeks ago still sounded like crap compared to the older YJMs.

Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO?  The answer is because wood is too variable to control and Steve Vai says this in the guitar world video.  In short, out of the thousands of JEMS produced, only BO was added and the rest of the guitars are substandard vis - a -vis EVO and FLO.  Because if it sounded any better, Ibanez would send it first to Steve Vai instead of you.  By the way, I have yet to hear an Ibanez that sounds really killer.

Take a good look at Joe Satriani.  I have all his DVDs and I play them back across a good hi fi system, not the high end ones like KRELL but definitely not your plain vanilla asian or japanese sound system.  When I put in his latest DVD with his signature JSX Peavey Amps, I was floored because I never remembered hearing Joe sound so NGONGO.  His pick attack was missing in his lead runs.  His highs sounded harsh.  Though I know that it was only a DVD and it will be a different experience live I knew I was living with much better gear everyday of my life.

Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end  manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone.  Artist agenda is not so clear.  They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone.  Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.

And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...



Offline randymarsh

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 10:22:05 PM »
change is constant. tone is always evolving.

you also forgot to mention that carvin is building a new amp for steve vai and ibanez is building a new distortion pedal for him also.

Quote
Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO?

vai just can't give up evo and flo. it's too emotional for vai and he believes that those guitars are the best sounding guitars in the world.

Quote
Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date.

yun ang matindi. dun sa interview niya sinabi niya na yung bagong 5150 amp pwedeng iwan ng naka-"on" (not standby) for months and it will not blow up and still sound great. i think it's a ridiculous claim.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 10:28:56 PM by randymarsh »
nuno : n4 2.0 n4esa, n4vintage, n4 silver sparkle, n5, n6, n7, n8esa
etc : yjm, axis, jp6, jpxi, jp12, jp13, lp 58 vos, lp 57 ri, lp standard, lp trad, am strat, am tele deluxe, jem7v, uv777, rg prestige, j custom, deluxe reverb, vai legacy, jcm900, axefx

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 10:30:25 PM »
Randy,

So why endorse if you know you will change sound and taste?  And thats the irony of being a paid artist if you know that you will change sound and taste.  You should NOT endorse and this was my point.

I mentioned that the new Legacy will be three channel.

Vai cannot give up because Ibanez cannot as yet at this point in time produce something better sounding than EVO or FLO.  I know lots of guys who keep guitars because of sentimental reasons but will gladly use a better sounding guitar that does not have any sentimental reason.  Its this simple, for a make or brake important gig in your life, would you rather use a sentimental guitar or a killer sounding one?  Imagine that Steve Vai has to give a daily dose of killer sounding shows, do you think that sentiment is important to him?  Look at it, he now has BO and I bet that it has less sentiment than EVO and FLO.  Not bad for ibanez, 3 great sounding JEMS out of 30,000 produced in the last 20 years?

Offline Lahed92801

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 10:45:46 PM »
For me it's ok to endorse don't just make claims like "THIS IS THE GREATEST SOUNDING AMP IN HISTORY!" or " THIS WILL BE MY AMP FOREVER!" or eddie's saying "I'm glad i'm with a company that finally gets it!"

Eddie, if that's true, why did you say 13 or so years ago about the musicman you had ernie ball make "The last guitar i played was made for me. I designed this one"  :|

What sounds great for you may sound awful for someone else. I love EJ's tone and its buttery smoothness but to a friend of mine, it's a reverb wash. I like gambale's tone for its quirkyness and similarity to that quality you get when a strat's pickup selector is at 2 or 4 position. But someone else just said it's a wussy ass jazz-rock tone. Some people like Kranks for its metalness. Others say it's too much of a 1 trick pony. Some like cornfords for their roundness and warmth and being a perfect "shredder amp". Others criticize it as lacking edge.

It's all in the ear of the one listening. There is no "best", just what the listener likes most. That's why we have more than 1 genre, more than one kind of OD, more than one kind of guitar and amp.  :-D

Offline PRSMan

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 10:55:59 PM »
Welcome back Alex / oasgomez!


Offline badongrodrigs

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 11:03:46 PM »
WB sir alex :lol:

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 11:05:05 PM »
Well, this is interesting, to say the least.  :lol:
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Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 11:14:33 PM »
Lahed,

There are some gear that excel in what they do that no one can deny.  And there are properties in common across great sounding equipment that people will notice across all genres.  My point with eddie and the rest is that they don't endorse the best there is on the field because the best cannot afford to pay them to endorse.     

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2007, 11:29:07 PM »
Though there are those who miss some of my posts, I just really had to get this topic off my chest because when I try out the stuff that these artists endorse, it really is no big deal.  I just want to speak out for guys like me who have been duped at one point in their life into believing an artist who suddenly changes his brand or upgrades his current model.  And this is my short list of artist who I think have the lowest credibility when it comes to endorsements:

1. EVH for being a whore -- Ernie Ball then Peavey then Charvel, Peavey Amp then Fender Amp
2. Dave Mustaine -- Jackson then ESP then Dean
3. Dimebag -- Dean to Washburn then back to Dean,  Randall Amps to Krank

And please dont tell me that these guys changed preferences because EVH has remained a bolt on dude with a Floyd and Humbucker guy.  His EVH III should sound like his brown sound Peavey 5150. 

Dave Mustaine guitars still look like Flying Vs in General.  Hard to differentiate there difference in sound from one brand to another

Dimebags guitars are still the same shape with the same brand of pickups and are all equipped with Floyds.  And I bet the krank was designed to have at least one definitive sound of the Randall.



Offline IncX

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2007, 11:39:37 PM »
well, its all because of the money really.

i mean, when they have a lifestyle that burns out about 100K dollars a day... every bit of endorsement deal they could squeeze out is a good thing for them.

honestly, in my state now, i tend to hate ibanez guitars... but if ibanez would call me up and ask me to play a Gio or something in exchange for 10 guitars and money for the endorsement... hell, id bite it man! ... i think a lot of us would ... thats free guitars, and eventhough its crap, you can always change its PUPs and hardware, and you wont even spend that much money. however, id still not play them on recording or something... just for live use i guess where tone isnt subjected to a microscope.

if i was a tycoon and i have my passive income doing it for me... hell, id refuse that deal. its just... i dont think a lot of us are tycoons. and i trust the real fans know the real gear i use.

the post has a point though... i stopped believing in dimebag's ads after i saw him endorese a lot of gear. i avoid products that use artists to advertise stuff... namely: ibanez, dean (especially DEAN!), digitech.

im good with: MXR (the dime and zakk dirt boxes), pearl (the joey jordison stuff), marshall (who are they using now?), those are all i could remember for now.

-*-

i think its about time oas came back to philmusic,
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 11:50:55 PM by IncX »

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2007, 11:45:34 PM »
Welcome back Alex / oasgomez!

Is this real or am i dreaming?!
The fretboard is a vast universe.

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Offline blue buddha

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2007, 11:49:00 PM »
Hehehe.

Guys, guys, guys.... Actually, rule #1 in this whole game is, has always been, and always will be "trust your own ears" (and fingers, as the case may be).

Really no need to get worked up about it. Just a few dudes who either like what they hear or getting paid to sell something. Par for the course. No biggie.  :wink:

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2007, 11:49:49 PM »
Dimebag got stuck in a lot of crummy endorsement deals, yes. But if certain allegations are to be believed, one of his former managers was the one who fed him to the sharks. He went back to playing Dean guitars after he kicked that manager out. Too bad he didn't do it sooner.

Quote
1. EVH for being a whore -- Ernie Ball then Peavey then Charvel, Peavey Amp then Fender Amp
2. Dave Mustaine -- Jackson then ESP then Dean
3. Dimebag -- Dean to Washburn then back to Dean,  Randall Amps to Krank
I'll agree with #1, and to some extent, #3. But Mustaine... I don't know. I think he's been careful about endorsements so far. Besides, whoever said his goal with Dean was to create a totally different looking guitar? He's always loved V's and there's no point in hiding that just for the sake of having something different.
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Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2007, 12:02:36 AM »
Al,

By the way, I love all of Mustaine's Vs.  But I guess, it all stops there with the looks. 

Offline randymarsh

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2007, 12:05:10 AM »
Its this simple, for a make or brake important gig in your life, would you rather use a sentimental guitar or a killer sounding one?

ok let's put it this way. sa EBs na lang or sa mga Tone Parties. If i would bring my guitar that I've been using for years and compare it to someone else's killer sounding guitar. someone may say that my guitar doesn't stand up to the other. but should i care? personally i don't. acceptance is a time consuming process.

personally i have mixed emotions with endorsements. i always try to research and compare them with other brands before i buy one. i have to admit i'm a nuno fanatic and i will buy his guitars because i've been swept away by his pounding tone during his clinic in yupangco years back.

as for endorsements in general, we should let the artist do their thing. it's up to us if we will take the bait or not.
nuno : n4 2.0 n4esa, n4vintage, n4 silver sparkle, n5, n6, n7, n8esa
etc : yjm, axis, jp6, jpxi, jp12, jp13, lp 58 vos, lp 57 ri, lp standard, lp trad, am strat, am tele deluxe, jem7v, uv777, rg prestige, j custom, deluxe reverb, vai legacy, jcm900, axefx

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2007, 12:06:15 AM »
Also, I forgot to mention that Wayne Charvel still makes guitars under Wayne Guitars.  If Eddie was such a friend, he could actually go back a design a guitar with Wayne instead of hanging around with a Fender owned Charvel name.  But I guess as mentioned here, money takes predominance over tone.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2007, 12:20:05 AM »
Randy,

Peace.  If a credible and authorative source says your age old lovable guitar sucks then its time to look for a better sounding guitar.  This is exactly how Cesar Diaz got to be SRVs tech by saying that he sucked and from then on SRV sounded better  at least thats what SRV says.

I used to have an N4 Padauk and up to today I still have to find a great sounding N4. 

Its OK if you have mixed feelings after all there are some great sounding signatures out there but what bothers me is that if the guitar manufacturer cannot guarantee consistency how can an artist endorsement on a guitar guarantee that unless he personally QAs each one.  Also, if artists change taste from time to time how can they can be credible endorsers for amps and effects?  Case in point, I was fortunate enough to test two ESP Custom Shop Alex Laiho Vs.  One in white and one in black.  Both had that stupid certificate but both sounded different.  One sounded heavenly and will kill even the most toneful guitars by Fender and Gibson despite its Floyd while the other sounded like absolute crap that even a Korean guitar can beat.  So, why did alex laiho sign both certificates?  I honestly dont know. By the way I wanted to go back for the white Laiho because it had the best vibrato technique sound ever not only on a drive setting but also on a clean setting but somebody bought it already. 

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2007, 12:35:04 AM »
If someone says your tone sucks, listen to it again. If you're still satisfied with it, then why change it. And who could that authorittive and credible source be? He should learn how to appreciate someone else's tone.
The fretboard is a vast universe.

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Online pallas

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2007, 01:00:40 AM »
Think of the bigger picture. Its all about the big guys with cash, money, REPUTATION plus the market, consumerism and the downright survival of the fittest even if that means robbing and pillaging the next generation or just rehashing your next product line.

Most artists are enterpreneurs as well and YES they manipulate the product their tied with by using their name.

Seriously.......do you really believe they RELIGIOUSLY use the products they endorse? SERIOUSLY?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 01:39:33 AM by pallas »

Offline Phil

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2007, 01:36:59 AM »
Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds.  What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion?  Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC.  Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound.  Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel.  What the...?  Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap?  Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY.  Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.
Alex,
All of us in some point will get tired of the same thing...everything evolves. I changed gears 'coz my taste in music changed. The Legacy and Fender obviously are different amps.... different cleans. ( you know I own one.) Right now I still have my Legacy and sold all my other Carvin amps and got a Brown Note D Lite 22 amp. The Legacy can just do so much...it cannot do Fender cleans....Marshall cleans ...maybe. It's just the capability of the amp....people add effects ...change tubes, speakers, cabs, etc.... to make it versatile...but it just comes to a point that it can do only that. Thus.....buy or make another amp..... but I don't know if Carvin can do Fender cleans though....it's gonna be interesting.
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Offline ubersam

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2007, 02:05:05 AM »
Why do artists endorse? Because they can... When will they stop this and that, blah blah blab? Doesn't matter to me... I don't really see any point in trying to know or understand an artist's reason for endorsing a certain product. It could be a number of reasons, anywhere from financial to political to just plain whim. Or, as crazy as it sounds, they could actually believe in, like and use the product that they are endorsing  :-o  Honestly, all the great artists in the world can endorse whatever product they want to, I will still use my own ears and decide for myself.

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2007, 02:15:19 AM »
damn...the gods are talking here?this is interesting...perception,personality...it depends...

Offline strummer

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2007, 03:40:38 AM »
A friend told me once...

"Got these jordan sneakers. cool. i still don't play like jordan though.."

Point is endorsements are only a part of the biz side of the music industry. It's a fact. I usually don't prefer signature models because 1) it's pricey 2) i don't have the money, and 3) what works for him may not work for me <assuming the artist uses the product>.

Yep i agree. it really sucks when artists endorse products blindly. Poor consumers.

on the other hand... welcome back OAS.  :-D. yeah
strum away!

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2007, 05:21:23 AM »
Phil,

I just wish Steve Vai had said it the way you did "the Legacy can only do so much ... it cannot do Fender Cleans"  but he said "Legacy combos are great amps and the Fender adds a different dimension".  If you observe the video closely, he suddenly paused to think about what to say because he was raving about the Legacy but was suddenly caught to be inconsistent.  And I do compliment you because you did not go rush out to get a Fender just like that -- not to mean that Fender amps are bad.   By the way, I don't get tired of the same thing if it sounds great but thats just me.  The first amp which I bought in 1986 is still me with me today.

And the funny thing about Vai was he was trying to point out jokingly that his favorite piece of gear was his electric fan because he looked cool and he said aint that what it is all about?

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2007, 05:32:20 AM »
Pallas,

I think a lot of people believe in endorsements and single out that one piece of endorsement as the key to a certain artist's sound.  After all, the mighty JEM is celebrating its 20th year.  Unfortunately, they fail to see the whole context.  Again, I encourage you to look at Steve Vai's gear setup and I myself will not know what does what to the sound.  Though I know these guys use other stuff but I rather he make more money on making better music.  Up to this day, I dont think he has topped Passion and Warfare.  Another funny insight about Vai was he admitting jokingly that he is a poser.  But don't get me wrong I still love Vai.