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Author Topic: Snare Overtone  (Read 2140 times)

Offline jeva

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Snare Overtone
« on: November 24, 2007, 12:53:39 PM »
I got a used Hand hammered Cast Copper, Tama. Bout 5 yrs old.

When I tested it (Open venue), ayus naman.

Kaya lang nung nasa room ko na, matindi pala overtones.

Using an Evans Power Center Reverse Dot and Hazy 300 (then changed to Philharmonic Genera) bottom. Super ang overtones.

Initially Top is in super tight tuning ,bottom is tight also relative to the skin. Ok ang overtones, pero parang wala ng sustain. I loosened, bumalik ung overtones.

Changed the top to Remo Weather King Emperor (may dot din) and Philharmonic Genera, medyo nabawasan. Tight Top, Medium bottom. Sustain is now better, but overtones are still there, though not as much with Evans.

Should I use a moon gel or a external muffler (attachement) or O-rings?

Any advice?

Salamat




Offline Akira JUMBO

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2007, 04:51:27 PM »
External modification's such as the rings/tapes/gels are the quickest and easiest remedies to this problem but experimental tuning will help you eventually. It is hard to give specific directions to remove excess overtones but generally speaking a looser tension would kill some of it.

Just keep trying, mix and match and play with your settings, your bound to find that sweet spot!  :wink:
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Offline jeva

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2007, 07:37:23 PM »
Thanks Akira.

Loose tensioning will help?

Now, I think my snare behaves differently. The ringing lessened after I have tightened it. But as said, the resonance is sacrificed with tight tuning.

I tried using a thicker head Emperor X, it helped at a noticeable rate. But I still find the overtones too much as compared to my previous snare, which is a 1.5 mm thick brass.

Just a question, does the moongel or other muffling accessories lessen the resonance?

any other suggestions to help my snare resonate more?

I will try to experiment more.


Offline plep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2007, 11:10:32 PM »
to kill overtones... duct tape lang yan sa batter head. onti lang (mga 1-2 square inches, o kaya isang 1 sq inch muna tas patungan mo pa ng isang 2 square inch na tape para mas makapal), basta ilagay mo sa lugar na nakakapatay talaga siya ng excess overtones. para hanapin yung lugar na yun, push down with your thumb at a point about 2 inches (maybe less) from the edge, then hit the drum. if it sounds good, place the tape at the point you pushed down on; if it doesn't then just repeat the process around the drum.

to maximize your resonance... tune both heads to equal tension (hindi kailangan tight), then tune the resonant head up in small increments (yung tipong 1/8 turn lahat ng tuning points), testing the snare every time you tune up til you reach that point of max resonance. matagal at mabusisi kaso makukuha mo talaga yung ideal na tunog para sa snare mo. sa akin usually nahuhuli sa onting lagpas lang sa one half turn per lug e, kaya dinidiretso ko na sa ganun tapos onting tweak na lang.

yung una, galing sa experiment ko lang dati (di na ako gumagamit ng muffling ngayon). yung pangalawa, galing sa drum tuning bible (na may halong onting ekek ko).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 11:18:34 PM by plep »

Offline jeva

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2007, 11:42:20 PM »
Thanks Plep.

At least now, I know where to put the muffling. I thought I can just put it anywhere. hehehe.


Offline plep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 12:10:46 AM »
hehe basta naman ata hindi sa gitna e. tsaka itono mo muna sa ideal tuning mo tas saka mo imuffle. kaso tandaan mo rin ha, give and take yang muffling, lalo na dahil gusto mo magresonate yung drum mo. kasi sa muffling pwedeng mga unwanted overtones lang matanggal mo, kaso pwede rin naman mapatay mo tunog ng drum mo.

tsaka factor din pala ang lugar... baka naman dahil sobrang liit ng kwarto mo kaya lumilitaw nang todo yung overtones na sa normal-sized venue e nawawala naman. pwede mo siguro gawin na meron kang muffling pag nasa bahay kaso pag gig na, tanggalin mo yung muffling at pabayaan mong magwala yang snare mo  :-P

pwede mo ring subukan yung mga dry heads ng Evans. meron silang Genera Dry, Genera HD Dry, tsaka ST Dry. mawawala na malamang yung pagring ng drum mo sa ganyang drumhead. actually buti naisip ko 'to, kasi baka ito na yung best affordable solution para sa yo.

kaso baka kasi wala sa tuning o sa head selection o sa muffling yung problema. posible na yung ringing overtones na ayaw mo eh yung pagresonate na mismo nung drum mo, lalo na dahil bakal yan (although dapat less ring-y na siya kasi hammered yung shell). baka mas bagay sa hinahanap mong tunog eh kung kahoy na shell ang gamit mo.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 12:18:39 AM by plep »

Offline jeva

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 04:33:58 PM »
@ Plep

To be honest nagulat ako. This came in with a Tama Die cast hoops. When I have not yet sold my previous snare with 2.3 hoops, I tried it with this copper. I did not notice the ring. But now, after cleaning and assembling, the problem arises.

I think it really is this snare's character to ring. And it is LOUD for my taste. I thinks it is what you guys call dry? But it is also definitely dark.

By the way I dont have gigs, Im not really a drummer. Its just a hobby. Trying to learn it 1 step at a time.

Offline Akira JUMBO

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2007, 11:11:19 AM »

pwede mo ring subukan yung mga dry heads ng Evans. meron silang Genera Dry, Genera HD Dry, tsaka ST Dry. mawawala na malamang yung pagring ng drum mo sa ganyang drumhead. actually buti naisip ko 'to, kasi baka ito na yung best affordable solution para sa yo.


Generally speaking those dry heads by Evans will reduce overtones but still depends on tuning quality. I have had experiences with all of those heads un-tuned properly and they still rang like any other head. But they do give an extra edge for dryness due to key features like internal rings and vent ports.  :wink:
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Offline Gep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2007, 11:15:25 AM »
Let it ring. Yun yung character ng snare mo e.

At kung gusto mo mabawasan ang ring, idaan mo sa tuning, wag sa duct tape o muffling. Pang-tamad na paraan yung muffling e, at mawawalan talaga ng dating ang tunog ng snare mo.

Offline wax_static

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2007, 12:08:48 PM »
Let it ring. Yun yung character ng snare mo e.

At kung gusto mo mabawasan ang ring, idaan mo sa tuning, wag sa duct tape o muffling. Pang-tamad na paraan yung muffling e, at mawawalan talaga ng dating ang tunog ng snare mo.

korek! try watching a video of Dave Weckl tuning his drums... you can get rid of unwanted overtones through experimental tuning just like Akira and Gep said...

Offline plep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 12:21:11 PM »
jeva:
teka, yung die-cast ba o yung 2.3mm hoops gamit mo ngayon?

as for sabi ni gep... tama na dapat daanin sa tuning kaso minsan kasi sa ibang kwarto eh kahit anong tuning eh magriring talaga siya. unless tipong maluwag talaga both sides, in which case tunog basura na yung snare mo. tsaka yung sinubukan na niyang tuning (yung mas maluwag sa ilalim), yun na dapat yung di nagriring yung snare e.

subukan mo 'to: Emperor batter, Genera reso, die-cast hoops. medium-tight top, medium bottom. okay na starting point yan para magbawas ng ring without muffling. kung ayaw talaga mawala, either muffle or tanggapin mo na lang.

Online inigo

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 12:25:12 PM »
In addition to the tuning suggestion... in my experience, using thinner heads (e.g. Ambassador) offsets shell ring more than thicker ones (e.g. CS, Reversed Dot), since the head is allowed to ring more. Pag thicker head, medyo muffled ang head, and the shell is left to be heard more.
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Offline mesh_and_lace

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 01:04:24 PM »
Let it ring. Yun yung character ng snare mo e.

At kung gusto mo mabawasan ang ring, idaan mo sa tuning, wag sa duct tape o muffling. Pang-tamad na paraan yung muffling e, at mawawalan talaga ng dating ang tunog ng snare mo.


I second this! :)   Wag ka gumamit ng duct tape. Maglalagkit lang yan pag tagal. Yung adhesive ng duct tapes parang hinde sya bagay sa klima natin dito sa Pinas kaya naglalagkit pagtagal tas maiiwan yung adhesive pero yung tape mismo, wala na.  Kung gusto mo ng muffling na pambahay lang, bili ka nung muffle ring, tas bawasan mo ng thickness para hinde mamatay yung natural na tunog ng snare mo. O kaya butas butasin mo ng puncher para at least mabawasan yung weight ng muffler ring kahit papano.  Mag iwan ka pa ren ng ring.  Ganun talaga.  Nagbabago ang 'behavior' ng snare, depende kung ano condition ng lugar o ng kwarto.  Pero kung gusto mo ng tape lang talaga, masking tape na lang.

Offline plep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 01:14:59 PM »
di ko naranasan yung maganun ng duct tape, kaso sige kung ganun nga eh di masking tape na nga lang. hehe thanks sa added info. tsaka wala ako tiwala sa o-ring - laging natatanggal lang e - kaya di ko na naisip isuggest.

tsaka yep, thicker head babawas ng ring. tsaka die-cast hoops din.

kaya nga go na sa combo na to: Emperor batter + Genera reso + die-cast hoops, tapos mas masikip ang batter sa reso.

Offline jeva

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2007, 03:32:07 PM »
Plep
These are the setup that I tried
1. Im using Tama Die cast hoops + Emperor X Coated Power Center + Evans Genera Snare (Sabi sa box Philharmonic Snare) - Current

2. Evans Coated Reverse Dot batter + Tama Die cast hoops + Evans Genera Snare

3. What I mentioned earlier using 2.3 Hoops is:
Tama 2.3 Hoops + Evans Coated Rev Dot + Genera Snare 

1 and 3 are having the same amount of overtones. I think.

While setup 2 is super talaga overtones.

I really dont want to use any muffler, that is why I was asking for your suggestions.

Then TAPES are real NO! Sabi nyo nga pang tamad yun. Isa pa papanget ung looks nung snare.

Now, based on your opinions, I think I have to try and tune it once more.

But for me konting fine tune na lang ung set up 1, medyo ok na ako.

Thanks sa Lahat ng Advice!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 03:33:15 PM by jeva »

Offline plep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2007, 04:02:23 PM »
haha tinanong mo kasi yung muffling kaya sinabi ko naman sa yo kung pano pinakamadaling paraan. personally di rin ako gumagamit nun e. minsan pahirapan lang kung may sumpong yung snare drum mo.

yep setup 1 nga pinaka may chance. kaso di ko alam yang philharmonic snare na yan talaga e. sinabi ba sa box ano yung weight nung head? 200, 300, or 500? kasi kung 200 yan, baka mas maganda pang yung hazy 300 gamitin mo. thicker heads = more direct sound e.

gawin mo, tune batter and reso heads to equal (LOW) tension. tapos dahan dahan mo i-tune up yung batter. kung masyado muddy yung tunog, i-tighten mo yung reso, kaso make sure na mas masikip pa rin yung batter.

Offline wax_static

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 08:43:10 PM »
IMO, unwanted overtones come from inconsistent tuning on EACH head... try tuning your head uniformly, some of us usually tend to miss this out... tapping your drumhead with your finger, with the opposite head muted, try to get a single fundamental tone near each tension rod.... this really helps  :wink:

https://www.resotune.com/About_drums.htm

some info about overtones.. quite informative :D

Offline Gep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2007, 12:16:16 PM »
Kung ayaw mo ng snare mo, akin na lang.  :-D

Offline plep

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2007, 12:20:14 PM »
hmm nawawala ata post ko ah.

eto na lag ulit:
tinanong mo kasi yung muffling kaya sinabi ko naman sa yo kung pano pinakamadaling paraan. personally di rin ako gumagamit nun e. minsan pahirapan lang kung may sumpong yung snare drum mo.

yep setup 1 nga pinaka may chance. kaso di ko alam yang philharmonic snare na yan talaga e. sinabi ba sa box ano yung weight nung head? 200, 300, or 500? kasi kung 200 yan, baka mas maganda pang yung hazy 300 gamitin mo. thicker heads = more direct sound e.

gawin mo, tune batter and reso heads to equal (LOW) tension. tapos dahan dahan mo i-tune up yung batter. kung masyado muddy yung tunog, i-tighten mo yung reso, kaso make sure na mas masikip pa rin yung batter.

Offline jeva

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Re: Snare Overtone
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2007, 10:01:05 PM »
@Plep

Hindi pala Philharmonic, Orchestral pala ung snare head ko.

I am now using the Evans Top Rev Center again. But now, it is better tuned. Hehehe. Nakakabawas nga ng overtones. Although I would appreciate kung mas mababawasan pa.

I changed since the Remo Emp X PC is an onld one. I just washed it, then water penetrated inside. Thus, making it almost impossible to tune.

Now I am a bit happier. I will now try using a Hazy 300 from Orchestral 300.

Hope it works. If it does not, I may end up getting a new Emp X.

Thanks sa mga advice.