FreedomTom the German..

[kawayan_strat]

nakakaaliw magbasa sa thread na to..sari-saring mga stories! 

i was actually referred by Doc Farseer to Tom when i was looking for a guitar.  however, i had second thoughts kasi nga he's a foreigner and i don't know how he deals.  pero i was forewarned by Farseer and given some tips should i deal with this guy.  it ended up na ndi na ako pmunta sa kanya!    

but i'm still planning to visit his condo just to look around. 

Tom is AUSTRIAN by the way...according to Farseer. 

AUSTRIAN ba? Potek in my experience,mga stir at (in fairness to others) manloloko yung mga yan. May tennant kami sa bldg namin sa probinsya na Austrian. Ang tindi mag kwento,maniniwala ka talaga sa umpisa. Habang tumagatagal siya sa bldg namin,lumalabas ugali niya. Late mag bayad ng upa,at minsan ayaw mag bayad. Kesyo maraming reklamo etc.

He did not pay the rent for 2 years,kaya we ended up going to court. He lost,pero di parin nag bayad sa atraso niya sa amin kahit may order na galing sa korte.

BTW,he also treats his pinay wife like s#it!

[maxi_musikero]

AUSTRIAN ba? Potek in my experience,mga stir at (in fairness to others) manloloko yung mga yan. May tennant kami sa bldg namin sa probinsya na Austrian. Ang tindi mag kwento,maniniwala ka talaga sa umpisa. Habang tumagatagal siya sa bldg namin,lumalabas ugali niya. Late mag bayad ng upa,at minsan ayaw mag bayad. Kesyo maraming reklamo etc.

He did not pay the rent for 2 years,kaya we ended up going to court. He lost,pero di parin nag bayad sa atraso niya sa amin kahit may order na galing sa korte.

BTW,he also treats his pinay wife like s#it!

very bad indeed..

pero let's give Tom some consideration..maybe all Austrians are not like that.  (cguro ganito pa ako magsalita kasi hindi ko pa sya nakaka-deal. hehehe!  )

[nealyu]

wife pala niya yun. nung una akong pumunta doon akala ko maid niya kasi ang lakas niya mangutos at parang ginagawa niyang katulong

[kawayan_strat]

very bad indeed..

pero let's give Tom some consideration..maybe all Austrians are not like that.  (cguro ganito pa ako magsalita kasi hindi ko pa sya nakaka-deal. hehehe!  )

Kaya ng sabi ko "in fairness to others". Iba kasi yang mga educated sa hindi. They always see us filipinos as "inferior". Mukhang katulong din yung asawa ng tennant namin.

Pero tama ka bro,let's give him some consideration. Ingat din at wag magpapasindak.

[nealyu]

let's visit his place sometime soon 
i've been itching to go to his place and check out his stuff

[chromeknive]

if i had compared tom to gengis khan would you still put words into my mouth the same way as you did now?
OT:

kung talagang gusto nilang i-pluralize ang mga salitang gear, equipment, etc kahit na sufficient naman na ang mga ito, pwede nilang sabihin/isulat ng ganito:

pieces of equipment, pieces of guitar gear, etc.

yes sir, i actually do get your point and how the term was used.
and also, i didnt mean to put words into your mouth. i guess in a nutshell, my point is lets just not use those terms nalang. im sure we could live without them in a guitar forum. also, medyo malayo yung ghengis khan scenario mo. this thread is about a "german", people are being "nationalistic" by defending their own and finally, the said terms were used (in another context). someone else used the word "nazi". so ang sinasabi ko ay wag nalang natin gamitin ang terms na yun in any context at all sana, lalo na sa thread na to na sensitive na as is. yun lang naman. i dont mean to offend anyone but rather to prevent anything really offensive. peace, sir! sorry if i appeared to be putting words into your mouth- that is really not the case. its more of the mere appearance of that term in a thread like this is questionable lang talaga.

as for the grammar, i think they should allow straight filipino here. STRAIGHT FILIPINO. not text style filipino and maybe a little taglish lang. sa totoo lang, i'd greatly respect someone who spoke straight filipino if he or she hasn't mastered the english language. kung 'di mo kaya i-artiiculate sarili mo sa inggles, edi mag filipino ka, wala namang mali dun. ang di ko matiis, yung mga weird hybrid ng gayspeak/text talk. tipong "aq"...parang...dude isang letter na lang e...hehe

that being said, sayang talaga. english proficiency has gone down the drain. that was one of the advantages of filipinos long ago.

[farleysbeat]

yes sir, i actually do get your point and how the "term" was used. hm, i guess what i can tell you now is the mere combination of the said words, the character's said nationality and the "nationalistic" stance of people here can result in misunderstandings rin. siguro konting sensitivity nalang...ayun, thats what i have to say. kasi naman, thread about a "german", nagmumukhang witch-hunt dahil sa mga posts, tapos may terms nga na ganun na ginamit. it could easily be taken out of context and is really not anything close to your ghengis khan scenario. then gaya nyan, one forumite i just replied to, i think has a bit of misguided zelousness, papanindigan pa n'ya na mas ok nang maging "racist" at "stupid" kesa "idiot" in an effort to defend his position that no one here was challenging in the first place.

kung baga, wag nalang tayong gumamit ng mga ganoong salita lalo sa mga ganitong thread dahil
1.) guitar forum 'to so di naman talaga kailangan
2.) sensitive ang mga connotation ng mga terms na yan at maraming pwede mag-misunderstand ng mga sinasabi ng mga tao lalo pag di alam ang buong context.

so ayun lang naman. peace, sir!

ok sir. actually napaisip din ako sa mga post niyo. i'll be more sensitive next time.  forum nga pala ito. madali nga rin kasing ma-misquote o ma-misread ang post ko. this is a lesson learned for me. peace rin mga bros sa mga fellow forumites na maaaring na-offend ko. honestly, that was not supposed to be a racist remark. pero nasabi ko na yan. 

apir! 

[chromeknive]

ok sir. actually napaisip din ako sa mga post niyo. i'll be more sensitive next time.  forum nga pala ito. madali nga rin kasing ma-misquote o ma-misread ang post ko. this is a lesson learned for me. peace rin mga bros sa mga fellow forumites na maaaring na-offend ko. honestly, that was not supposed to be a racist remark. pero nasabi ko na yan. 

apir! 

ako rin i actually edited my post rin. hehe. 
alam ko rin naman na minsa'y tunog mali rin ako magpost kaya't nag-iingat rin ako kahit paano...to the best of my ability.

peace!! 

[oist]

i can still remember his "asian" sg.

raon guitar with a 10 centavo coin on the headstock.

[jackyboy]

is tom a musician/guitarist? or is he buying and selling stuff just to earn money? hehe.

[Jaco D]

Tom is AUSTRIAN by the way...according to Farseer. 

Hmm.  Baka nag sa-"Sound of Music" sila ng asawa niya tuwing gabi.  "Da heels ar alayb..."

Seriously speaking, he's just playing the part of the shrewd businessman to the hilt.  His being Austrian or *put whatever nationality you like here* is irrelevant.  If you don't like his bid or ask prices then walk away.  And if he instructs the sekyu not to let you out of Fortress Von Trapp when you walk away, pull out your cellphone and threaten him with kidnapping (I think he could get deported that way).  Let's see who's gonna blink first.  As the others have said, "walang mang-gogoyo kung walang nagpapagoyo".  Nothing personal, just taking care of business.

[markthevirtuoso]

I think too much 'uncalled' generalization is occurring over here to the point that the significance of this very thread is becoming derogatory. Where is the sense of education (and maturity) here dear fellows?

[PRSMan]

BTW,  I just got a PM from a very reliable source/friend with actual experience na nagoyo siya ni Tom.  I asked him to share his chilling story, pero it's really up to him.  It might help other forumites.

We might have received the same PM.  If so, I would not consider that panggogoyo though -- naku, heto na naman tayo sa semantics...    Anyway, ang gist (cleaned up to protect the forum member's identity) is that the forum member had something to sell, pumunta siya kay Tom, ang daming hinirit ni Tom about his (seller's) item (keso hindi na daw original, etc.), forum member believed Tom, forum member agreed to trade his item with a few not-so-cool items, forum member had seller's remorse soon after that and wanted his stuff back, ayaw na ni Tom, end of story.

Sayang nga na nabitawan ng forum member yung item niya, but in the end, kusa siyang pumayag sa deal.  Nobody put a gun to his head and "made" him accept the deal.  After walking away with your end of the deal pero wala namang usapan na puwedeng "return/exchange", you can't expect the other party to be willing to call the deal off just because you want to right?

Tom is a businessman... he is NOT there to be your friend.  Guys, keep that in mind.  Maybe he is a friend to others, but if you're not one of them, don't expect to be treated like one.  As a buyer, siyempre he'll say whatever he needs to say to convince you to sell your stuffs este stuff to him.  But he's acting in a way that's no different from how other people or institutions act.

Now... back to semantics...    For me: 

- Ang panggogoyo as a buyer would be if he did things like say he'll pay you X amount in 1 week tapos di siya nagbayad.  Or he agrees to an amount, and then backs out when you meet and are ready to trade goods.  Or issues bouncing checks.

- Ang panggogoyo as a seller would be if he did things like say he's selling you a 1965 guitar tapos 1985 pala.  Or say that the guitar has had no repairs eh yun pala nakailang balik na kina Arie, Jon, Jun, Max, at kung sino-sino pa.  Or say na all-original parts tapos galing Raon na pala ang iba.

Thoughts?

[borgy]

Ang panggogoyo para sa akin ay pagiging tuso. Karaniwan, ang taong tuso ay gagawa't gagawa ng paraan para laitin, bolahin, gawing [chewbacca]-tangahan ang iba, at magsinungaling sapagkat alam nya na mas may experyensya siya sa kausap nya.  Walang pinagkaiba ang taong tuso at manggogoyo sa pating kapag nakaamoy na ng dugo. Nauulol at naghuhumindik na sasakmalin ang hinang-hina't nagdurusa.

Ngayon, kasalanan pa rin ba ng "ginogoyo"kung di nya mailagan ang di mabilang na panlalait at naghuhumiyaw na "talino" ng tuso?  Kung baga sa talinghaga, parang kinubabawan na ng maligno ang kaawa-awang nilalang.

Ang aking adhikain ay galing sa sariling eksperyensya noong ako'y ako ay nasa pagkakataong pinaglaruan ng maligno. Maaring "matalino" na ako ngayon subalit di pa rin perpekto.

Ang aking isinusulong  ay tulungan nating ingatan ang mga nilalang na maaring maligaw sa kweba ng maligno. Datapwat sasambitin natin sa kanila na sila ang may kasalan kung anuman ang kalabasan, hindi bat mas bayani kung isalba sila bago magdalamhati sa pagsisisi?

Ang panggogoyo ay pagiging tuso sa kahinaan ng iba.

[nealyu]

- Ang panggogoyo as a seller would be if he did things like say he's selling you a 1965 guitar tapos 1985 pala.  Or say that the guitar has had no repairs eh yun pala nakailang balik na kina Arie, Jon, Jun, Max, at kung sino-sino pa.  Or say na all-original parts tapos galing Raon na pala ang iba.

Thoughts?

ako ginanyan niya ako 
pero nakabawi naman ako e

[vhunter]

... siyempre he'll say whatever he needs to say to convince you to sell your stuffs este stuff to him....

I almost fell off my seat.


OT another term: its "a word of advice" even if you are refering to a complete sentence.

[deltaslim]

We might have received the same PM.  If so, I would not consider that panggogoyo though -- naku, heto na naman tayo sa semantics...    Anyway, ang gist (cleaned up to protect the forum member's identity) is that the forum member had something to sell, pumunta siya kay Tom, ang daming hinirit ni Tom about his (seller's) item (keso hindi na daw original, etc.), forum member believed Tom, forum member agreed to trade his item with a few not-so-cool items, forum member had seller's remorse soon after that and wanted his stuff back, ayaw na ni Tom, end of story.

Sayang nga na nabitawan ng forum member yung item niya, but in the end, kusa siyang pumayag sa deal.  Nobody put a gun to his head and "made" him accept the deal.  After walking away with your end of the deal pero wala namang usapan na puwedeng "return/exchange", you can't expect the other party to be willing to call the deal off just because you want to right?

Tom is a businessman... he is NOT there to be your friend.  Guys, keep that in mind.  Maybe he is a friend to others, but if you're not one of them, don't expect to be treated like one.  As a buyer, siyempre he'll say whatever he needs to say to convince you to sell your stuffs este stuff to him.  But he's acting in a way that's no different from how other people or institutions act.

Now... back to semantics...    For me: 

- Ang panggogoyo as a buyer would be if he did things like say he'll pay you X amount in 1 week tapos di siya nagbayad.  Or he agrees to an amount, and then backs out when you meet and are ready to trade goods.  Or issues bouncing checks.

- Ang panggogoyo as a seller would be if he did things like say he's selling you a 1965 guitar tapos 1985 pala.  Or say that the guitar has had no repairs eh yun pala nakailang balik na kina Arie, Jon, Jun, Max, at kung sino-sino pa.  Or say na all-original parts tapos galing Raon na pala ang iba.

Thoughts?

Yes, we got the same PM and, yes, I got thoughts.

Semantic schemantics nga bro... We will have to agree to disagree (which I know you are cool with, unlike other people who go ballistic when someone disagrees with them... ). 

I think panggo-goyo rin if one party will pretend that an item is not orig just to lowball when he in actual fact knows that the item is orig. In legal terms, misrepresentation ito.  In this particular case, to me dead giveaway yung gloating and sudden change of fact-finding/conclusion nung buyer only 30mins after the deal. If this happened, a few years ago, I'm sure he doesn't even use the internet for research to get info in a matter of minutes.  In short, he was deceitful and offered false knowledge.

As a case of misrepresentation, the deal should have been void.

[changedmynametojimi]

Yes, we got the same PM and, yes, I got thoughts.

Semantic schemantics nga bro... We will have to agree to disagree (which I know you are cool with, unlike other people who go ballistic when someone disagrees with them... ). 

I think panggo-goyo rin if one party will pretend that an item is not orig just to lowball when he in actual fact knows that the item is orig. In legal terms, misrepresentation ito.  In this particular case, to me dead giveaway yung gloating and sudden change of fact-finding/conclusion nung buyer only 30mins after the deal. If this happened, a few years ago, I'm sure he doesn't even use the internet for research to get info in a matter of minutes.  In short, he was deceitful and offered false knowledge.

As a case of misrepresentation, the deal should have been void.

what? misrepresentation is fraud

sino itech na forumite? sana ma PM din ako ehehhee na curious tuloy ako

[PRSMan]

Yes, we got the same PM and, yes, I got thoughts.

Semantic schemantics nga bro... We will have to agree to disagree (which I know you are cool with, unlike other people who go ballistic when someone disagrees with them... ). 

I think panggo-goyo rin if one party will pretend that an item is not orig just to lowball when he in actual fact knows that the item is orig. In legal terms, misrepresentation ito.  In this particular case, to me dead giveaway yung gloating and sudden change of fact-finding/conclusion nung buyer only 30mins after the deal. If this happened, a few years ago, I'm sure he doesn't even use the internet for research to get info in a matter of minutes.  In short, he was deceitful and offered false knowledge.

As a case of misrepresentation, the deal should have been void.

ANO?!?  DISAGREE KA SA AKIN?!?  ANO?!?  HINDI PUWEDE YAN!!!  MOMMYYYYYYYY!!!   

Ha ha!  Anyway, I do feel bad for the forum member not really because of the deal but because he gave up what is supposed to be a cool item.  My perspective -- and I do this even to myself -- is just that you control your own destiny and always have a choice.  If you choose to give in to pressure, then that's your choice so walang sisihan.

I know that I'm no lawyer... but I'm not sure why this can be considered a case of misrepresentation.  Seller approached the would-be buyer with an item.  Would-be buyer says "Sprakenhaytz, doz parts are nat oreegeenal, hen itz only minty condizyon hen nat minty-minty condizyon, etc., zo I trade you my poodle and pussy kat instead".  Seller, for whatever reason, believes the would-be buyer and agrees to the deal.  It's his (seller's) item.  If there's anyone who could be "misrepresenting" something in a deal, couldn't that only be the seller?  I'm not saying that the seller misrepresented his product in this case.  All I'm saying is that how can a buyer misrepresent an item that isn't his?

Oh well.  Like I said, I'm not saying na santo itong si Tom.  Based on multiple stories, Tom will pull out all stops to get what he wants so "seller beware" is the story here.  It's okay to buy from him, but not to sell.

BTW, the situation here in the US is no different.  May mga resellers/dealers na ganyan din.  Case in point:  I wanted to get a /13 but didn't want to have any cash outlay.  So I asked several resellers/dealers if they were willing to do a trade or sale on one of my PRS guitars.  Except for two offers, the range of offers was anywhere from 35%-50% of street price of the guitar -- or a discount of more than half!  Two dealers however did give me a fair price for a trade -- 90%-95% of what I was looking for.  So if you guys think that Tom is a nasty character... well, the world is full of them.

[KitC]

"There's a sucker born every minute." - P. T. Barnum

[PRSMan]

By the way, ako ay isang nabiktima na rin ng panggogoyo (hindi kay Tom) kaya sa mga nagiisip diyan na "walanghiya namang itong si PRSMan eh ang daling bumitaw ng salita palibhasa hindi pa ito nangyari sa kanya" eh huwag naman kayo ganyan... cry cry... ako rin ay naging biktima na sarili kong kahinaan.

I believe this happened in 1986 or 1987.  I saw an ad in Bulletin Today (buhay pa ba yang dyaryo na yan?) for a "1960 Fender Stratocaster".  The seller was from Quezon City.  I went to his house... his damn huge house... pinapasok ako ng driver (or maid?), I passed through the garage and saw something like 30++ European cars on the way into the house.  I was led to a room with what had to be 100 or more guitars!  Man, para akong nakapasok sa isang guitar magazine.  The seller them came out -- a Pinoy -- and we talked.  He was really nice, may pa-softdrinks at cookies pa.  He pointed to the guitar in the ad -- a 1962 Fender Stratocaster.  1962!!!  Pre-CBS!!!  Anak ng pating.  I forgot the price but I think it was something like PhP10K or PhP14K or somewhere in that range.  I couldn't believe it.  Sabi ko jackpot ito.  In my hands was an all-original 1962 pre-CBS Fender Stratocaster... at naka Floyd Rose tremolo pa!  Wow!!!  I paid the guy, left, and felt so happy for a couple of months.  And then I had a great idea -- I did some research!  Doh!  I did some research on vintage Fenders, and oh great, found out that Floyd Rose tremolos were uhm, er, uhm, invented in the late 70s!!!

Ha ha!  I felt so stupid.  The seller DID misrepresent his product and I hate the bastard for that.  But in the end, it was my foolishness and anxiousness to get a Strat that clouded my judgment and stopped me from really thinking through the purchase. 

Oh well... lessons learned!

[lovecore]

Ang panggogoyo para sa akin ay pagiging tuso. Karaniwan, ang taong tuso ay gagawa't gagawa ng paraan para laitin, bolahin, gawing [chewbacca]-tangahan ang iba, at magsinungaling sapagkat alam nya na mas may experyensya siya sa kausap nya.  Walang pinagkaiba ang taong tuso at manggogoyo sa pating kapag nakaamoy na ng dugo. Nauulol at naghuhumindik na sasakmalin ang hinang-hina't nagdurusa.

Ngayon, kasalanan pa rin ba ng "ginogoyo"kung di nya mailagan ang di mabilang na panlalait at naghuhumiyaw na "talino" ng tuso?  Kung baga sa talinghaga, parang kinubabawan na ng maligno ang kaawa-awang nilalang.

Ang aking adhikain ay galing sa sariling eksperyensya noong ako'y ako ay nasa pagkakataong pinaglaruan ng maligno. Maaring "matalino" na ako ngayon subalit di pa rin perpekto.

Ang aking isinusulong  ay tulungan nating ingatan ang mga nilalang na maaring maligaw sa kweba ng maligno. Datapwat sasambitin natin sa kanila na sila ang may kasalan kung anuman ang kalabasan, hindi bat mas bayani kung isalba sila bago magdalamhati sa pagsisisi?

Ang panggogoyo ay pagiging tuso sa kahinaan ng iba.

dagdag isa... +1 hehehe

[glassjaw_jc]

By the way, ako ay isang nabiktima na rin ng panggogoyo (hindi kay Tom) kaya sa mga nagiisip diyan na "walanghiya namang itong si PRSMan eh ang daling bumitaw ng salita palibhasa hindi pa ito nangyari sa kanya" eh huwag naman kayo ganyan... cry cry... ako rin ay naging biktima na sarili kong kahinaan.

I believe this happened in 1986 or 1987.  I saw an ad in Bulletin Today (buhay pa ba yang dyaryo na yan?) for a "1960 Fender Stratocaster".  The seller was from Quezon City.  I went to his house... his damn huge house... pinapasok ako ng driver (or maid?), I passed through the garage and saw something like 30++ European cars on the way into the house.  I was led to a room with what had to be 100 or more guitars!  Man, para akong nakapasok sa isang guitar magazine.  The seller them came out -- a Pinoy -- and we talked.  He was really nice, may pa-softdrinks at cookies pa.  He pointed to the guitar in the ad -- a 1962 Fender Stratocaster.  1962!!!  Pre-CBS!!!  Anak ng pating.  I forgot the price but I think it was something like PhP10K or PhP14K or somewhere in that range.  I couldn't believe it.  Sabi ko jackpot ito.  In my hands was an all-original 1962 pre-CBS Fender Stratocaster... at naka Floyd Rose tremolo pa!  Wow!!!  I paid the guy, left, and felt so happy for a couple of months.  And then I had a great idea -- I did some research!  Doh!  I did some research on vintage Fenders, and oh great, found out that Floyd Rose tremolos were uhm, er, uhm, invented in the late 70s!!!

Ha ha!  I felt so stupid.  The seller DID misrepresent his product and I hate the bastard for that.  But in the end, it was my foolishness and anxiousness to get a Strat that clouded my judgment and stopped me from really thinking through the purchase. 

Oh well... lessons learned!

Baka naman pre-CBS talaga na Fender Strat pero nilagyan ng FloydRose trem kaya binenta ng ganoon kamura?

[bgarcia]

Baka naman pre-CBS talaga na Fender Strat pero nilagyan ng FloydRose trem kaya binenta ng ganoon kamura?

Sana nga ganon.  P10k is a lot of money in the mid to late '80s.

[deltaslim]

ANO?!?  DISAGREE KA SA AKIN?!?  ANO?!?  HINDI PUWEDE YAN!!!  MOMMYYYYYYYY!!!   

HUH?!!!  YOU ARE NOT EVEN AT MY LEVEL TO BEGIN TO DISAGREE WITH ME!  WALA KA SA LUGAR PARA MAGJUDGE KUNG TAMA AKO O HINDI KASI HINDI MO PA NASUBUKAN MAKIPAGDEAL KAY TOM!  WALA KA SA LOLO KO -- KUMPLETO ANG GI JOE NYA! AKO ISA NA LANG KULANG KO, PAG BINILI NI MOMMY, MY COLLECTION...  AND I... WILL BE COMPLETE.   


Bro, "misrepresentation" goes both ways, usually by the seller, pero pwede rin sa buyer.

Heto generic definitions:
Wikipedia: a misrepresentation is a false statement of fact made by one party to another party and has the effect of inducing that party into the contract
Electric Law Library Lexicon: MISREPRESENTATION - The statement made by a party to a contract, that a thing relating to it is in fact in a particular way, when he knows it is not so.

In any case, iisa lang ang importanteng punto dito, at sinabi ko na nung unang post ko pa lang.  "Caveat emptor!"