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Author Topic: Rehearsal STudio Basics  (Read 7673 times)

Offline alcoholiday76

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:20:26 PM »
I'm planning to start up wid dis band rehearsal studio thing...anybody wanna give out sum advice?
 - cost
 - equipment
 - technicalities

or just about anything you'd like to speak out before i take that leap into this business.

thanks!
Nothing's gonna change my world...

Offline 3rd world order

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Re: Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2005, 10:58:04 PM »
Quote from: alcoholiday76
I'm planning to start up wid dis band rehearsal studio thing...anybody wanna give out sum advice?
 - cost
 - equipment
 - technicalities

or just about anything you'd like to speak out before i take that leap into this business.


the way I understand it you need a drum kit, GTR & bass amps, and a PA loud enough for vocals over the drums, GTR, & bass.

you probably want a place with concrete walls and no windows so your neighbors wont kill you.   8)
aaron

Offline alcoholiday76

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 10:02:48 PM »
:?:
Nothing's gonna change my world...

Offline stringman

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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2005, 07:46:38 AM »
Back in 1996 when I opened my studio my Investment was 150k all brand new equipment plus the renovation of the place.
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones.

Offline alcoholiday76

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2005, 10:21:21 PM »
Quote from: stringman
Back in 1996 when I opened my studio my Investment was 150k all brand new equipment plus the renovation of the place.


hmmm...over almost 9 years with a compound interest of roughly 5% annually..that would be..hmmm...ahhhh...damn! i hate math!!!

but one thing's fer sure...E X P E N S I V E !!!
Nothing's gonna change my world...


Offline stringman

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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2005, 05:59:34 PM »
Today expensive talaga! A good quality drumset nasa 40k na!! Plus you can't just put entry level cymbals sa studio kahit branded pa siya.

Planning to put up a studio? You can opt for 2nd hand deals naman. Pero none the less, ang mahal pa rin nang 2nd hand.
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones.

Offline alcoholiday76

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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 10:29:56 PM »
so having considered the financial hurdles...whats the basic start up? i mean in terms of prioritizing the merchandise, which should go first?
Nothing's gonna change my world...

Offline stringman

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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2005, 06:48:22 AM »
There are a lot of newer amps in the market. Bu during my time it was Peavey that lasted the abuse of rehearsal studios. Ika nga pang barog ang Peavey. Get the basics 2 guitar amps, Bass amp, drumset, a good PA system. For the PA system you can start with a good 8 channel mixer a power amp and and a good signal processor for the vocal reverbs.

If you have your own place for the studio that would be a lot better. Mahal na rin ang rental nang place ngayon, dati I had to rent that was 5k monthly excluding electicity.
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones.

Offline alcoholiday76

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2005, 10:35:20 AM »
thanks for that info...hmmm...

my brain is hurting...need....coffee...need sleep...
Nothing's gonna change my world...

Offline screamingdemon2005

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Hello
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2005, 11:00:46 AM »
I know a source where you can buy cheap equipments, at least half the price. All you have to worry na lang is the space and the acoustics. Good Equipment + Good Acoustics = Good Sound
The end is the beginning, is the end.

Offline dod

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2005, 11:59:56 AM »
Quote from: stringman
Get the basics 2 guitar amps, Bass amp, drumset, a good PA system. For the PA system you can start with a good 8 channel mixer a power amp and and a good signal processor for the vocal reverbs.

That's a good equipment suggestion.

Also, I recommend that the loudspeakers be a pair of floor monitors (sometimes called wedges) with at least 10" or 12" woofer.

And, a very important signal processor that all rehearsal studios must have is a 31-band graphic eq to control troublesome feedback.

Effects processors are not really essential and may even make it more difficult for the musicians to hear themselves.

Just my opinion.

Offline buliwyf

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2005, 03:46:58 PM »
BUDGET STUFF (not too "budget" hehe) that should sound OK for a practice studio:

Guitar Amp:
Peavey Studio Pro 65w Combo (with 12" speaker)
P13,000 (make that two pcs = P26,000)

Bass Amp:
Beringher Ultra-Bass 350w Head
~P15,000(?)

Bass Cab:
DIY 4x10 with reputable raon speakers
~P5,000 (beringher 4x10 = P22,000)

Drum Set:
Premier Drum Set
~P25,000

Cables (should be good quality):
~P5,000

Mic's:
Shure C606 (they're good quality)
P3,200 (~800 each, 4pcs)

PA:
DIY 2 1x12 cabs with raon drivers
~P5,000

8-channel mixer
~P7,000

raon high power power amp:
P6,000?

wala pa keyboard. arghh roughly around P95k na  :shock:

Offline dod

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2005, 07:48:51 PM »
Quote from: buliwyf
PA:
DIY 2 1x12 cabs with raon drivers
~P5,000

8-channel mixer
~P7,000

raon high power power amp:
P6,000?

hehehe! masyado naman tinipid ang PA system. aawayin tayo ng bokalista nyan!

well, just let us know how much your gear budget is then let's try to work out a nice package for you.  :wink:

Offline cool2ny

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2005, 07:57:01 PM »
Quote from: dod
Quote from: buliwyf
PA:
DIY 2 1x12 cabs with raon drivers
~P5,000

8-channel mixer
~P7,000

raon high power power amp:
P6,000?

hehehe! masyado naman tinipid ang PA system. aawayin tayo ng bokalista nyan!

well, just let us know how much your gear budget is then let's try to work out a nice package for you.  :wink:


hehehe, mas low budget pa yung PA system ko sa linista nya eh  :lol:
so far di pa naman ako inaayawan ng mga nag ppractice/recording sakin  :lol:

may plans naman ako mag upgrade ng mga gamit, pero medyo hindi nga lang priority ngayon  8)

Offline 3rd world order

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2005, 11:45:27 AM »
old joke:

Q: How do you make a million dollars with a recording studio?

A: start with 2 million...

the GOOD thing is that ppl who rent out rehersal studios usually don't care about quality... so cheap stuff is fine.  i'd care more about durability than how something sounds... no mics better than a 58, etc...

basically, bands just want a place they can plug in and be loud.
aaron

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2005, 01:37:30 PM »
Quote from: stringman
Back in 1996 when I opened my studio my Investment was 150k all brand new equipment plus the renovation of the place.

Here's a very basic package that you can buy for around 170k only.

1 JBL packaged PA system (powered floor monitors, mixer, 2 mics)
1 DOD dual 31-band graphic eq
1 Premier 5-pc drum kit, HH/crash cymbals, throne
1 Peavey bass amp
2 Peavey guitar amps
2 mic stands  
1 lot assorted cables/connectors

Availability is subject to confirmation.

Interested?
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline buliwyf

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2005, 10:07:25 AM »
Quote from: dod
Quote from: buliwyf
PA:
DIY 2 1x12 cabs with raon drivers
~P5,000

8-channel mixer
~P7,000

raon high power power amp:
P6,000?

hehehe! masyado naman tinipid ang PA system. aawayin tayo ng bokalista nyan!

well, just let us know how much your gear budget is then let's try to work out a nice package for you.  :wink:


hehe! napaka bias ko against vocalists noh?  :P i elevate na lang cguro ung speakers facing directly sa muka ng vocalist para mukang malakas  :idea:

may trauma lang yata ako sa super lakas na monitors ng vocals. you know? when the singer hits those shouting letter "O's" with a neutral voice (example: OOOOOOH!), tapos mabibinge kayo lahat ng banda, yung feeling na parang lumilindol and sasabog ulo mo or tatalsik mga mata haha.

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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Rehearsal STudio Basics
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2005, 06:02:57 PM »
For around the same price, you can get a Peavey MP-400 portable PA system consisting of 2 loudspeakers, 1 powered mixer, 1 mic with cable, and speaker cables.  :!:
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline crashtest

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how about acoustics?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2005, 09:19:05 AM »
whic is better...egg trays made of plastic or cardboard?...sa walls...styro ba or cork board?...thanks for the suggestions...

Offline bagtasa

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Re: how about acoustics?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2005, 10:55:45 PM »
Quote from: crashtest
whic is better...egg trays made of plastic or cardboard?...sa walls...styro ba or cork board?...thanks for the suggestions...


the rule of thumb is, the heavier the material, the more sound it can absorb, and may certain frequencies lang ang naaabsorb at that, so i think egg trays or styro wont do any good in damping the sound  since they have very little mass  ( pero kung reflection ang pinaguusapan, may konting tulong ang shape ng egg trays... i think)  heavy hanging curtains would be better for isolation, parang dun sa jamming room ng inxs na contest

Offline cool2ny

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Re: how about acoustics?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2005, 11:48:12 AM »
Quote from: crashtest
whic is better...egg trays made of plastic or cardboard?...sa walls...styro ba or cork board?...thanks for the suggestions...


mmmm.... wala pa akong nakita o narinig na plastic egg trays at styro ang ginamit pang sound proof ng room.

and btw, ang mga egg trays (yung hindi plastic ha) ginagamit mostly for acoustical purposes. . . may konting tulong na rin sa sound proofing.

Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2005, 04:56:37 PM »
Quote from: Mike Pedero
It's a misconstrued belief.  The original "eggtrays" were strips of cardboard, about 4" in width and are formed to have some sort of a square container inside, much like the old soda boxes.  People found out that by putting these on the walls, they have the ability to "break-up" certain frequencies - much like Schroeders - and they help in making the sound of the room good.  The old eggtrays are different from the ones used as eggtrays today (Reference:  look at Everest "How to Build a Small Budget Recording Studio From Scratch," Chapter 16, "Bits and Pieces of Acoustical Lore.")

Quote from: Nick Colleran
Since entering the acoustics arena in the seventies, we have heard many stories over and over.  One of these is that the acoustic foams are no more than a fancy packaged version of egg cartons.

After listening to this many times, I decided to include them to be tested with some commercial products at Riverbank Acoustical Laboratories.   I recently discovered these in my "attic" files and have reproduced them here.

Egg Cartons do, indeed, have acoustical value.  They measure NRC - 0.40.

However, the graph tells the rest of the story.   While commercial products exhibit a smooth curve, there is a "pothole" in the acoustical road with egg cartons.

Another thing to consider is flammability.  Take an egg carton outside and put a match to it!  Then ask yourself, "Do I still want this on my studio walls?"

Quote from: Paul White
Q What's the difference between soundproofing and acoustic treatment?

Acoustic treatment, in the context of a recording studio, generally deals with the acoustic quality of the room from a listener's point of view. In other words, if you monitor in a control room that has been designed using the correct acoustic treatment, what you hear is likely to be more accurate than the same recording played back over the same speakers in an untreated room.

Soundproofing, on the other hand, is specifically designed to increase the degree of acoustic isolation between the studio and the world outside -- cutting down on noise that leaks into or out of the studio. Sound isolation works the same both ways, so there's no difference in approach to keeping sound in or out.

Q I've heard that sticking egg boxes or acoustic foam to walls will help soundproof a room. Is this true?

Egg boxes can make a marginal improvement to some aspects of a room's acoustics by breaking up reflections from hard surfaces, but they are virtually useless for soundproofing. The same is true of lightweight suspended ceilings, acoustic foam and even Rockwool (Rockwool tends to be used for acoustic treatment or for damping out resonances inside partision walls. All these materials have their uses, but they're mainly for acoustic treatment, not for soundproofing).

Q Where can I obtain more information on this subject?

There are past articles on the SOS web site (enter Soundproofing or Acoustics in the Search facility at www.soundonsound.com/search), and a couple of my own books are available from the SOS bookshop (01954 789888), including Creative Recording II and Basic Home Studio Design. These are good if you want a practical rather than mathematical guide to the subject. For a more detailed, technical approach, there are some excellent books from F. Alton Everest, including The Master Handbook of Acoustics.

Q Are you sure I can't use egg boxes?

Quite sure!

Quote from: Kyle Neath
Many musicians believe that soundproofing comes from foam, or egg-carton-looking materials hung around studios. Unfortunately, this cannot be further from the truth. Any foam you see in a studio is not there for soundproofing, but rather acoustical treatment.

Acoustical treatment is the process in which you attempt to deaden the acoustics of a room via sound absorbing foam, bass traps, and all kind soft, porous materials. Anything labeled as Acoustic Foam is for this purpose, not soundproofing. This is mostly the treatment of resonance in certain frequencies and minimizing echoes. Each studio will have it’s own feel to it and that will all depend on the Sound Engineer’s preference for acoustical treatment.

Soundproofing is the process in which you attempt to reduce the intensity of sound transmitted outside of a practice area. This is mostly accomplished in the walls and insulation of the studio itself. The thing to consider here is the STC rating of a given material. An STC rating describes how many decibels are lost in the transmission through a given material. For example, if you had a wall with an STC of 40dB and you were playing your drums at 70dB inside the room, outside of the wall you would measure a 30dB noise level. Average walls have an STC of around 40-60, with brick and concrete walls on the higher end of the spectrum. However, keep in mind - a soundproof room is only as soundproof as it’s weakest point.

Egg Cartons

I’m sure you’ve heard it, put egg cartons all over your room and you’ll soundproof the room! Sounds like an excellent idea, and hey - omlets are starting to sound better by the minute. Unfortunately this is this most popular myths of soundproofing. The soundproofing properties of egg cartons are effectively negligible. That’s right folks, you’re better off putting a chair in the corner than lining your room with egg cartons. Now what egg cartons do is provide acoustical treatment. Specifically, they lower the resonance of mid to high range frequencies - such as cymbals. This can lead to a false sense of soundproofing since the room will echo considerably less after installing egg cartons.

The reason this works it that the goal of acoustical treatment is to trap small pockets of air inside a flexible container. This ‘traps’ the frequencies and prevents them from reflecting back into the room. This is also why acoustical treatment materials can sometimes be called ’sound traps’ or by their specific purpose such as ‘bass traps’.

Quote from: Bruce Valeriani
There's no such thing... there simply is no "cheap" method for soundproofing... the laws of physics don't give a damn about your budget... mass and specialized isolation construction techniques are what's required to soundproof an area.

Sound is very much like water, if a room is not water-tight, it's not soundproof... and you can't make a room "sorta water-proof." So think about an area you want to soundproof, then consider what it would cost to make it waterproof.... you'll see very quickly that it's not a cheap process.
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline alcoholiday76

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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2005, 04:36:06 AM »
so setting up a studio...is it a "seasonal" thing? is it realy profitable?
Nothing's gonna change my world...