Ramon Jacinto guitars??? Pinoy guitar makers???

[Al_Librero]

You know what? I have absolutely no point at all, hahaha! Hell, my post wasn't even directed towards you.

Caught up in the myth and his disciple. lol! That's a good one. If you don't mind, I'll stick around longer to read what new quotable lines I can get from you.  

Debating with you is a waste of time, Alex. You're good at starting one, but you always slither out when you're losing. And besides, the man you're dissing this time is dead. And I thought that passage in rjplanet.com was distasteful.

[PRSMan]

ha ha!  mabuhay si al!  nice one...  

[Zazza]

Warning: Biased Opinion against RJ Guitars

If we talk about Value for Money, I believe it is better to give the Japanese Guitars coming from the pier a shot over a RJ guitar.  Period.  For example, one of my best sounding guitars came from the pier and it only costs P8,000 -- maraming patong na iyon ng mga middlemen.  Just to prove my point, I dare all the RJ guitars to go up against this one Les Paul type made in Japan. I really dont know who made it and I don't care.

oasgomez

i'm not out for a flame war or any debate. just wanna inquire on how you can distinguish a non marked or no name guitar from the pier if it's japan made or anything like that. do you have any factor to check, like meron po bang nakalagay na made in japan? or sabi lang ng peddlers sa pier na galing japan? or me mga parts na dapat i check na galing japan talaga? sorry no clue here whatsoever, thus the questions

coz if there is, your suggestion is worth trying then, otherwise better just look for anything, even local brands, at least alam natin kung saan galing

peace sells...

[PRSMan]

mang rudy made/"assembled" one for me back in the early 90s.  i met him personally -- muntik pa akong nakagat ng aso sa may bahay nila.  i gave him a body, a neck that needed refretting, EMG pick-ups, a floyd rose trem, and the rest of the hardware.  he fixed the neck, assembled/installed everything else, repainted the body, etc.  the result was a really good guitar.  it's now with my cousin.

was this guitar solid proof of mang rudy's skills as a luthier?  maybe not... since he didn't build the guitar from scratch.  was this guitar solid proof of mang rudy's skills in general?  probably so since it still needed someone with knowledge to refret a neck, make sure things are aligned, etc.  

all:  take whatever you want to take from this example, but like all examples, this represents a data point... nothing conclusive, and it's up to you to decide whether or not this data point plus other data points make a trend.  as for me, i cannot listen to one horror story and conclude that everything else the guy made or touched is bad.

[Al_Librero]

hehehe. thank you.

i'm not out for a flame war or any debate. just wanna inquire on how you can distinguish a non marked or no name guitar from the pier if it's japan made or anything like that. do you have any factor to check, like meron po bang nakalagay na made in japan? or sabi lang ng peddlers sa pier na galing japan? or me mga parts na dapat i check na galing japan talaga? sorry no clue here whatsoever, thus the questions

if you don't mind, i'll answer these for you.

in my experience, may mga korean or even chinese-made na gitarang nakakapasok sa pier kasama ng mga made in japan. in many of these guitars, you'll see markings indicating its origin. we can go deeper into the details, pero mahabang usapin at maraming related readings yun.

in any case, pinakamagandang suggestion na puwede kong ibigay e, magpasama ka sa tao na marunong tumingin ng gitara. especially these days, kasi sa totoo lang, ang hirap nang makatsempo ng magandang deal doon. ang mahal nang magbenta nung dalawang tindahan dun. tapos may mga sumasala pa nung mga maayos pang mga gitara bago pa makaabot dun sa mga tindahan.

[Zazza]

hehehe. thank you.

i'm not out for a flame war or any debate. just wanna inquire on how you can distinguish a non marked or no name guitar from the pier if it's japan made or anything like that. do you have any factor to check, like meron po bang nakalagay na made in japan? or sabi lang ng peddlers sa pier na galing japan? or me mga parts na dapat i check na galing japan talaga? sorry no clue here whatsoever, thus the questions

if you don't mind, i'll answer these for you.

in my experience, may mga korean or even chinese-made na gitarang nakakapasok sa pier kasama ng mga made in japan. in many of these guitars, you'll see markings indicating its origin. we can go deeper into the details, pero mahabang usapin at maraming related readings yun.

in any case, pinakamagandang suggestion na puwede kong ibigay e, magpasama ka sa tao na marunong tumingin ng gitara. especially these days, kasi sa totoo lang, ang hirap nang makatsempo ng magandang deal doon. ang mahal nang magbenta nung dalawang tindahan dun. tapos may mga sumasala pa nung mga maayos pang mga gitara bago pa makaabot dun sa mga tindahan.

thanks for answering this boss al, yeah i agree, it's a looooong relative "himay-himay" dun sa details kung paano malalaman ang origin ng guitar. just wanna know....and knowing is half the battle...ika nga ni GI-Joe

i agree with this big time

all: take whatever you want to take from this example, but like all examples, this represents a data point... nothing conclusive, and it's up to you to decide whether or not this data point plus other data points make a trend. as for me, i cannot listen to one horror story and conclude that everything else the guy made or touched is bad.

[SDMF]

oh matapos ang mahabang usapin, magpost naman ng mas marami pics at soundclips un iba pang may locally made guitars.

[Phil]

GODAMMMMM!!! I LOVE THIS SITE!!!
...keep those debates coming....

[stratman1]

How come this thread is starting to look like the other contrversial threads in the past? Also have mostly the same people thats starts the flames. Hhmm... hehehe.

   :-k

[Zazza]

just wanna share that i went to RJ in Galleria yesterday. and tried out (yet again) their LP and the Tele. both are good to my ears, though the LP STD set neck mahogany body sunburst has the edge. and contrary to what i heard, i experienced good customer service naman.

their LP STD is retailed at P7,300 (bolt on neck, solid white pine body, black color) the LP STD naman na set neck, mahogany body na gold hardware sunburst color is like P10,500, and the Tele is P6,200. all have 10% discounts pag cash ang binayad. pwede na

[agentx44]

just wanna share that i went to RJ in Galleria yesterday. and tried out (yet again) their LP and the Tele. both are good to my ears, though the LP STD set neck mahogany body sunburst has the edge. and contrary to what i heard, i experienced good customer service naman.

their LP STD is retailed at P7,300 (bolt on neck, solid white pine body, black color) the LP STD naman na set neck, mahogany body na gold hardware sunburst color is like P10,500, and the Tele is P6,200. all have 10% discounts pag cash ang binayad. pwede na

although I must say that quite a few will disagree with your statement, I would also like to say that I agree with you. and as I've said before, as long as you're having a ball with your gear, it really doesn't mater how much you get torched from all the flaming.

with regards to Mr. Jacinto and his guitars, well, at least he makes decent guitars, or at least I hope he still does. hehehe.

Maraming variables sa manufaturing ng kahit anong bagay, whether it's guitars or television sets. then there's also the "human factor". at this day and age, mass production is the norm, and quality control tolerances vary. so you get good ones and bad ones.

good ones can be awful and bad ones can be a taste of heaven. it all depends on perspective and feel.

no one can tell you your gear sucks except you. yun lang.

[deltaslim]

Deltaslim,

I would just like to correct you.  Rudy made my guitar and I spoke to him personally about it.  At that point in time, RJ guitars was just a fix it shop and they were selling imported stuff.  There was no manufacture if there was no custom order.  And Rudy was the only one who was knowledgeable at that time -- he was the only guy who knew how to make a guitar -- the others around were just hired helpers.  Please dont try to make excuses for Rudy because you did not deal with the guy.   I know that as much as possible you try to present a different view, but dont try to force possible situations kung wala ka naman doon nang ginawa ang gitara ko.  By the way, if the so called Rudy's guitar that you got sounded good, why did you sell it?  

Hey, oasgomez - Your talking about Rudy when he was already with RJ.  I've heard tell that Roadtone was the branding Rudy had for his custom-made gtrs pre-RJ.  But whether he was under RJ or not is probably moot because he is the real luthier in either case.  My point is perhaps the quality of his output started declining when he had to churn out A LOT of custom, new-design gtrs, plus repairs/mods at the RJ shop.  There's only so much one luthier can handle so baka ang gumagawan na nung iba are the amateur luthiers. But what do I know, I wasn't there in the shop, right?  Nandun ka rin ba nung ginawa yung gtr mo o hanggang usap lang kayo ni Rudy?  

I'm not making excuses for Rudy. I was just stating my personal knowledge and opinion about MY guitar and Rudy. If you reread my post, I had nothing to say about your guitar.  So no need to correct me on that point, ok?  

FWIW,  RJ himself saw and handled my guitar at one of his battle of the bands contest and commented on it being well-made. He admitted that only Rudy could have made that gtr of that quality and that vintage. If I could travel back in time, I would also ask him if Rudy was under his employ at the time he made my gtr and what went wrong along the way (sabay ilag!).

As for me selling it, like I said I replaced it with a better (albeit only slightly) better Strat, since single coils were more to my liking by then.  Besides, halos nalaspag ko na siya e, napudpud ko na nga yung frets hanggang kahoy e!      But as for the tone, I don't think thousands of ears can be all wrong.

[Machine_Head]

just wanna share that i went to RJ in Galleria yesterday. and tried out (yet again) their LP and the Tele. both are good to my ears, though the LP STD set neck mahogany body sunburst has the edge. and contrary to what i heard, i experienced good customer service naman.

their LP STD is retailed at P7,300 (bolt on neck, solid white pine body, black color) the LP STD naman na set neck, mahogany body na gold hardware sunburst color is like P10,500, and the Tele is P6,200. all have 10% discounts pag cash ang binayad. pwede na

Sir were you able to have the chance to look carefully at the tele? How was it? Were you able to ask what kinda wood its made of?

Thank you.

[Al_Librero]

just get the setneck version of the RJ LP if ever. you'll at least get something closer to the real thing. not that i'm biased against pine... well ok, maybe i am. lol! even if it does sound good, i worry for its durability. Western luthiers typically use pine for practicing how to build bodies because it's pretty easy to work with. in any case, it's definitely not up there in any luthier's list of favored tonewood.

as for RJ's customer service, i'm sorry. i've seen to many guitars that bore the marks of their handiwork. it's a bit strange. in many cases, the quality of the guitars they sell and their repair work don't match. this is yet another observation that fuels the speculation that many of the guitars they sell aren't built locally.

How come this thread is starting to look like the other contrversial threads in the past? Also have mostly the same people thats starts the flames. Hhmm... hehehe.

same person, sir. not people. lol! but in case i'm one of those 'people' there's no flaming on my part yet.

[BAMF]

just wanna share that i went to RJ in Galleria yesterday. and tried out (yet again) their LP and the Tele. both are good to my ears, though the LP STD set neck mahogany body sunburst has the edge. and contrary to what i heard, i experienced good customer service naman.

their LP STD is retailed at P7,300 (bolt on neck, solid white pine body, black color) the LP STD naman na set neck, mahogany body na gold hardware sunburst color is like P10,500, and the Tele is P6,200. all have 10% discounts pag cash ang binayad. pwede na

O, to qualify, this is just me. I got my set neck LP from RJ and it sounded very good to my ears in the store (or maybe because it was my birthday and I was shopping for a gift to myself).

When I got home and plugged it into my amp, I wasnt impressed. Could be my amps . But the thing is, my Epi strat sounded better (again to my ears).

Then I brought them gigging. Namimili talaga ng amps (or hindi ako marunong magtimpla). Again my Epi strat sounded far better in those same venues. 3 out of 3 times I brought the LP it sounded [gooey brown stuff].

Kaya nga I don't bring my LP  gigging anymore, or at least not until I have the pickups changed. It didnt rack up any good memories while playing live, while my main axe, ugly and battle-scarred  as it may be, has been with me as we sent people slam dancing. So I don't have good memories (yet) with my RJ LP. Of course that can change in due time.  Again, not challenging other people's take on it, it's just my experience.

BAMF

[greasykid]

And I thought that passage in rjplanet.com was distasteful.

Mr. Al, anong passage don yung distasteful?  Mahilig ako sa intriga e.  Bka pwede i-copy paste mo dito.  Hehehehe.

[Al_Librero]

sige sir.

from this page:
http://www.rjplanet.com/music_city/index.html

In 1987, RJ bought the small hole-in-the-wall guitar repair shop of the late Filipino Luthier, Rudy Discipulo, asking "Do you wanna take - an exciting journey with me?"

.... and then he died in that same hole-in-the-wall..... or something to that extent. Some journey, huh?

[greasykid]

sige sir.

from this page:
http://www.rjplanet.com/music_city/index.html

In 1987, RJ bought the small hole-in-the-wall guitar repair shop of the late Filipino Luthier, Rudy Discipulo, asking "Do you wanna take - an exciting journey with me?"

.... and then he died in that same hole-in-the-wall..... or something to that extent. Some journey, huh?

Ahhh...

Ganyan talaga ang mapanamantalang pakikitungo ng mga malalaking burgesya comprador sa mga uring manggagawa at mga peti burgesya.  

Hehehehe....

[stratman1]

sige sir.

from this page:
http://www.rjplanet.com/music_city/index.html

In 1987, RJ bought the small hole-in-the-wall guitar repair shop of the late Filipino Luthier, Rudy Discipulo, asking "Do you wanna take - an exciting journey with me?"

.... and then he died in that same hole-in-the-wall..... or something to that extent. Some journey, huh?

Hey, that's funny, hehe  I like that.

[agentx44]

sige sir.

from this page:
http://www.rjplanet.com/music_city/index.html

In 1987, RJ bought the small hole-in-the-wall guitar repair shop of the late Filipino Luthier, Rudy Discipulo, asking "Do you wanna take - an exciting journey with me?"

.... and then he died in that same hole-in-the-wall..... or something to that extent. Some journey, huh?

...sad story of how the rich manipulate the poor for their own ends.

[guitarman_222]

Gentlemen (as I know most of you are), I understand that this forum is meant to share information. However, it would seem that when I see this QASGOMEZ, he is always trying to deliver a lecture. Who are you may I ask ? What gives you the right to lecture others who are more experienced in the world of guitars. If you really think you are an authority, play the guitar and let others recognise you as an authority. Don't hang around tone parties listening to the comments made by the pros about your expensive and inexpensive but "very good sounding equipment". In every forum I have been to, all this guy ever does is lecture others and brag about his expensive equipment and supposed "good buys".

[supacow]

Gentlemen (as I know most of you are), I understand that this forum is meant to share information. However, it would seem that when I see this QASGOMEZ, he is always trying to deliver a lecture. Who are you may I ask ? What gives you the right to lecture others who are more experienced in the world of guitars. If you really think you are an authority, play the guitar and let others recognise you as an authority. Don't hang around tone parties listening to the comments made by the pros about your expensive and inexpensive but "very good sounding equipment". In every forum I have been to, all this guy ever does is lecture others and brag about his expensive equipment and supposed "good buys".

+1

[Zazza]

just wanna share that i went to RJ in Galleria yesterday. and tried out (yet again) their LP and the Tele. both are good to my ears, though the LP STD set neck mahogany body sunburst has the edge. and contrary to what i heard, i experienced good customer service naman.

their LP STD is retailed at P7,300 (bolt on neck, solid white pine body, black color) the LP STD naman na set neck, mahogany body na gold hardware sunburst color is like P10,500, and the Tele is P6,200. all have 10% discounts pag cash ang binayad. pwede na

Sir were you able to have the chance to look carefully at the tele? How was it? Were you able to ask what kinda wood its made of?

Thank you.

yes sir. the RJ Tele is mahogany body flamed top, ung fingerboard tsaka ung neck maple one pc, bolt on neck tapos the usual Tele tail bushing string bridge. and the usual alnico pick ups. maybe a few upgrades like PUPs and perhaps refretting dun sa mga unit na pangit ung pagkakagawa will make this guitar formidable

makadaan nga din sa pier

[oasgomez-is-banned]

Guitarman_222,

My intent here was to tell the newbie buyer who wants a Value Money Proposal to consider second hand Japanese Guitars if they are also shopping around for an RJ Guitar.  I am not bragging about my GOOD buys because I have made more BAD buys than GOOD buys. And I can also brag around about my BAD buys if you want.  But who wants to feel bad about their guitars?  I did and I had to learn the hard way.

I have both expensive equipment and inexpensive equipment and I personally like them all and will post about them because I can and because I have them.  It is not my intention to lecture but to give another opinion on the matter. Thats why its a forum.  If you feel "pikon" to my post, just call me and I will prove it to you.  But talk is cheap or either people dont have the same opportunity to try out what I have or try out what my other friends have.

[oasgomez-is-banned]

Greasykid,

I agree the Mr. Ramon Jacinto seems condescending in describing Rudy.  But to be fair, when Rudy was crippled because of his stroke and working for RJ, he would skim from customers behind RJ's back.  Humihingi ng kickback.  If you trace back the history of early RJ, maraming natanggal kasi nahuli na ginagamit ang facilities at binubulsa ang bayad.  Still, Ramon Jacinto kept Rudy and they put a separate cashier and moved Rudy out of sales.