Ramon Jacinto guitars??? Pinoy guitar makers???

[oasgomez-is-banned]

Zazza,

Point taken.  

Some people tend to look at the forums as a source of re-assurance to buy even an RJ Guitar.  I just want to say that they should try it out instead of trying to determine what wood and where it is made.  That being said, they should be open minded enough to try out other stuff even 2nd hand japanese stuff for the same amount of money.   But unless they know or try out the best that RJ can offer them first, they will have difficulty trying out and comparing the 2nd hand jap stuff which might sound even better.  How can you appreciate a diamond without first seeing a piece of rock?

[agentx44]

i'm still wondering how on earth can a mahogany-bodied Tele sound traditional. (never mind the flamed top since it's most likely a veneer or foto-flame, anyway)

same here. still, i wouldn't mind using one, for the following reasons:

1. they're affordable (read:cheap)
2. they sound better than what's usually floating around.
3. a good platform for mods (for those moments when retrofitting SD pickups on your vintage Strat or LP makes your skin crawl)
4. they're decent (read:cheap again) workhorses.

Ang problema natin RJ guitar pero expectation natin parang high end custom shop. RJ guitar cannot in anyway touch custom status -- and I mean yung mga small luthiers sa U.S. BUT that does not mean we cannot find an RJ guitar that sounds acceptable. If you have to nit pick about features, magipon ka na lang for an expensive custom U.S. luthier guitar. Otherwise admit that we have a limited budget and head over to RJ and try out what is available and within your cash budget.

here we go with the "small-time luthiers" bit again. I wonder: if these guys are so good how come they still stay small-time? sure, expensive ang axes nila, pero selling about 5-10 guitars at $10-15k a piece ain't exactly peanuts. that amount of moola can go into a lot of equipment and several shophands. i wonder if they stay "boutique" just to keep the magic of the monicker alive...

anyways, two cents lang. i'm no expert, but I know a sound deal when i see one.

[PRSMan]

I wonder: if these guys are so good how come they still stay small-time? sure, expensive ang axes nila, pero selling about 5-10 guitars at $10-15k a piece ain't exactly peanuts. that amount of moola can go into a lot of equipment and several shophands. i wonder if they stay "boutique" just to keep the magic of the monicker alive...

unfortunately, it is not easy going from being a small shop to a large enterprise.  biggest problem i see is quality control.  i've read that luthiers like tom anderson inspect every single guitar that leaves anderson guitarworks... and i think his output for the year is only in the hundreds.  if he started producing in the thousands, i don't think there's a way that he can provide the same hands-on quality control that he provides now.  once you let machines and shophands take over, then you start giving up the "personal touch".  some luthiers still choose to cut the wood themselves, get involved in key processes (sanding, inlays, etc.), etc.

maintaining a small operation is not a "gimmick" from my perspective.  scaling up is not as easy as one would hope.  in the perfect world, we'd see a company that can bring down cost by leveraging the benefits of large scale production, but at the same time, still provide service and quality associated with small shop traditions.

[BAMF]

Dudes, I chanced upon that shop in front of Stagepoint in Raon. They got real good, real cheap guitars. Okay, let me rephrase that. They got good looking, real cheap guitars. Didnt have the time to try them out co'z I was rushing to Deeco trying to beat the 6 pm closing time (buying parts again for my geetar audio experiments).

They got this good lookin strat. Not Sta Mesa at all...brandname is GTX. From what I remember, that's a Yamaha brand. And it's even cheaper than the 4k Juno I got last year at the Pier. It's 3,500 lang . I wished I had at least a flashlight so I could peek into the trem spring cavity, but no dice...no way of knowing if it's plywood. But it's got this natural wood stained finish and body joints are visible from the outside. That's quite unnecessary IMHO if the geetar is made outta plywood. Then they got this China Fender Tele and Strat for 5.5k. Dunno what it means, is it a China Made Fender or is it a shameless rip-off ? Dunno...they just look good. Especially the GTX. I think I'll try my hand at a single coil guitar.

BTW Alex (okay I'm talking to you again, benefit of the doubt that you *could* perhaps be a nice guy after all ) both my RJ guitars are made outta solid wood and are of fine build quality. I'm not saying that you're generalizing, but RJ does come out with good guitars, body-wise and perhaps in the total picture with their higher-end guitars, specially those new ones equipped with SD's and Washburns. The ones I got though had shoddy pickups. My RJ-PRS got a pickup overhaul and is now a pretty useable guitar. The LP though still begs to be mated with a decent amp to sound anywhere decent.

Okay let's add to that again. Some time ago, I called the custom shop up and inquired how much for a flamed maple top, mahogany body, rosewood fingerboard with pearl overlays, gotoh tuners, LP with pickups of my choice. I was quoted 35 K. I've seen and heard RJ's from way back in the 80's. They are capable of exceptional guitars (although that could be the Rudy Discipulo days...things might have changed).

I wish to politely ask...have you ever even tried to get a custom axe from them so as to judge them too harshly ? I mean...I'm of the opinion that you're putting too much premium on the white guys. Have you ever put them to the test already ? Seriously...what do the Americans have that we cannot hope to match in terms of luthiery ? Just go to harmony central and read the glowing reviews of the production RJ Les Paul and see how the Americans twang it side by side with their $2.5K Gibsons and find little, if no difference. It blows their minds actually, how such guitars a fraction of the price of the original could actually look and sound as good.

Filipinos have been making guitars since spanish times. And now with the advent of global commerce, whatever tonewoods they have at their disposal are now at our disposal as well.

[BAMF]

Al,

I can't hope to call myself an expert, but I do believe I can tell a real flamed maple top from a foto-flame (sta mesa comes to mind). If the RJ Tele is a foto-flame, I'll be darned...they did a real good job .

[lykenhowl]

magipon ka na lang for an expensive custom U.S. luthier guitar.  Otherwise admit that we have a limited budget and head over to RJ and try out what is available and within your cash budget.

Kung 5k lang ba ang presyo bakit hindi di ba?Pero nasa Pilipinas kasi tayo at lahat ng tao hindi nila lahat kayang bumili ng mga gitarang sinasabi mo and yes some of us here admit that we have a limited budget pero pinaghihirapan naman namin ang pambili ng gitara namin at hindi namin hiningi kay Mommy at Daddy.

[kevlahnota]

minsan mahirap tanggapin lalo na kapag malupit tumunog yung gitara na mumurahin lang comparing dun sa mamahalin mong gitara. maging amp, fx or anything. from my experience, comparing my guitar dun sa gitara ng friend ko na not branded pero upgraded na yung pickups, eh halos magkapantay lang sila in terms of playability and sound. natural magkaiba ang tone kahit sa iisang amp lang sinaksak eh nakamura sya ng gitara na ang ganda.

[jack in a vox]

P100,000 = P10,000

its entirely possible.. american guitars are expensive because the luthiers charge more for their skills.

so the end price may be different.. but just because it is expensive, does not mean it is better..

[Taoistguitarist]

I have nothing to add. just want to say that it's a very nice discussion so far! I sincerely hope this won't turn into another mudslinging fest. Sayang ang mga info and insights of the members whose opinions i want to hear regardless of knowledge and experience.

oops this is getting too long.....carry on

[Al_Librero]

They got this good lookin strat. Not Sta Mesa at all...brandname is GTX. From what I remember, that's a Yamaha brand. And it's even cheaper than the 4k Juno I got last year at the Pier. It's 3,500 lang Very Happy. I wished I had at least a flashlight so I could peek into the trem spring cavity, but no dice...no way of knowing if it's plywood. But it's got this natural wood stained finish and body joints are visible from the outside. That's quite unnecessary IMHO if the geetar is made outta plywood. Then they got this China Fender Tele and Strat for 5.5k. Dunno what it means, is it a China Made Fender or is it a shameless rip-off ? Dunno...they just look good. Especially the GTX. I think I'll try my hand at a single coil guitar.

GTX used to be a Kaman brand (Kaman, Ovation, Hamer, etc). The old ones were definitely made of solid wood. I'm not sure about these new ones, but I doubt they're Yamaha. As for the Fenders, I'd like to see one. Right now all I can give is a wild guess: they might be rip-offs.  

I've heard that Stagepoint sells SX guitars. Those ones, I really like. They're something we call "disposable guitar" hehehehe. Kasi it's better to buy a new one instead of putting it through major repair and maintenance. Pero kahit na. I think these guitars sound pretty good and plays pretty well for the price.

[stringman]

yung 335 copy ba ng rj e mahogany or pine or maple?

Marco may nakita ako ginagawa nun sa factory it's solid di ko lang ala kung anong wood ang gamit.

[Zazza]

guys,

i went to stagepoint early this week and asked an insider from the shop itself (forgot his name, but he sure knows his guitars and is a luthier himself, so as he says) na yung fender daw dun na china is made of plyboard lang daw. actually he picks the SX guitars over the chinese strats anytime. so there goes the neighborhood

tsaka pardon me, medyo naive po ako sa terms dun sa FLAMED MAPLE TOP tsaka sa FOTO-FLAME. what does it mean actually and what's the difference between the two? i've been around guitars all my life but i don't know up to know what those mean dahil ang alam ko lang tumugtog sorry for the ignorance , thanks!

[agentx44]

I wonder: if these guys are so good how come they still stay small-time? sure, expensive ang axes nila, pero selling about 5-10 guitars at $10-15k a piece ain't exactly peanuts. that amount of moola can go into a lot of equipment and several shophands. i wonder if they stay "boutique" just to keep the magic of the monicker alive...

unfortunately, it is not easy going from being a small shop to a large enterprise.  biggest problem i see is quality control.  i've read that luthiers like tom anderson inspect every single guitar that leaves anderson guitarworks... and i think his output for the year is only in the hundreds.  if he started producing in the thousands, i don't think there's a way that he can provide the same hands-on quality control that he provides now.  once you let machines and shophands take over, then you start giving up the "personal touch".  some luthiers still choose to cut the wood themselves, get involved in key processes (sanding, inlays, etc.), etc.

maintaining a small operation is not a "gimmick" from my perspective.  scaling up is not as easy as one would hope.  in the perfect world, we'd see a company that can bring down cost by leveraging the benefits of large scale production, but at the same time, still provide service and quality associated with small shop traditions.

well said sir! pardon my ignorance...  

[jack in a vox]

that is indeed the dream..

keep prices down while still maintaining high quality and standards..

if anybody can do it.. its the japanese..

just look at toyota.

[agentx44]

Ditto. Burny/Fernandes, Ibanez, Greco, heck even ESP and Edwards are churning out real gems right now, that even at their most expensive are still cheaper compared to the American output.

[SDMF]

Ditto. Burny/Fernandes, Ibanez, Greco, heck even ESP and Edwards are churning out real gems right now, that even at their most expensive are still cheaper compared to the American output.

+1. I've tested a few guitars here worth 1k and below...wala sinabe sung ibang models vs  Ibanez. Although Im trying to stay away from it kse mern nako nun.

+1 din sa toyota! khet dito mas gusto nila jap cars kesa ford, etc.  Wen I 1st came here, my officemates keep on raving toyota and honda cars. Tapos sbe pa nila,  "ford are the worst cars!"  

Sa isip ko nyek! e sa atin pag naka expedition ka e congressman kna, tapos dito ayaw nila ng ford.    kakatawa!

[manilacoke3]

matanong lang po,
newbie lng ksi ako sa guitar tech kaya i just want to kno:

1. ano po ba ang difference ng "bolt neck" sa "set neck"?
2. ano po ang effect nito sa quality of sound?

i just want to kno before i buy a new guitar.
thanks

[BAMF]

I asked my slutty neighbour. She said "I've been set, I've been nailed, I've been screwed, but I don't recall being bolted".

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

[BAMF]

Seriously...a bolt on neck is one where large bolts (screws) are used to join the neck to the body. The set neck is where the neck is GLUED (set) to the body.

Generally, set necks provide longer sustain, and cost more. Bolt-necks provide less sustain but are cheaper.

There's also another type...the neck-thru-body which is the best in terms of sustain and for me, beauty. The neck and at least part of the body are carved from one single piece, thus there is no seam between the neck and body.

[Darktwistedmind]

matanong lang po,
newbie lng ksi ako sa guitar tech kaya i just want to kno:

1. ano po ba ang difference ng "bolt neck" sa "set neck"?
2. ano po ang effect nito sa quality of sound?

i just want to kno before i buy a new guitar.
thanks

You can check out this link:

http://www.edromanguitars.com/tech/neckconstruction.htm

[stratman1]

Ba, nabuhay nanaman tong thread na to, ah. hehe

[manilacoke3]

thanks Sir BAMF.
thanks dn for the link, darktwistedmind!
so that's why bolt-on LPs cost around P8K++ & set necks costs 10-15K.

Im planning to buy RJ STD LP kasi eh. Im shifting from acoustic to electic & i still want the reverbs & bassy sound to stay with me kaya naicp ko ung LesPaul. yoko nmn ng 335 dhl it's too bulky for me (sobrang kc payat ako eh).  
May Cherry Sunburst kaya sila with black HW & block/trapzoid inlays?
Pwede b daw magpacustom sa kanila,(yun bang ako pipili ng HW,color & other settings?
Tska ano yung recommended RJ electric models for those people like me who likes acoustics & reverbs?(i'd stay with RJ coz they're cheap)

thanks.

[BAMF]

Acoustics and reverbs ? The first guitar that comes to my mind is the RJ ES 335 copy at about 12k.

If you're going RJ...well...I have two...be prepared to change the pickups. Generally the guitars are well made these days except the real low-ends (their JEM copy sucks and is just a notch above Sta Mesa IMHO).

What I said about pickups might not apply anymore...it's just that I have two of them and the pickups both sucked. They became very good guitars once the stock pickups were done away with. They may be learning their lessons .

But as always, caveat emptor. Tell you what. When you test their guitars as is the case is in RJ-makati, they will plug the guitar into that Mini-Marshall stack they have there. Okay, listen to it on that. But after that, insist to plug it in one of those cheaper amps there and listen if the tone is still good. Medyo na-dale ako dun, the RJ-LP sounded heavenly in the store and not-so-good at home. Namimili ng amp yung gitara kong yun till I changed the pickups.

[cryingfreeman]

manilacoke3, i suggest you stalk at the Buy and Sell forum for second hand guitars. At 12k, u have better chances of getting good quality LPs. Believe me, once u aquire an RJ, ur GAS cravings will shift u to higher standards forcing u to sell ur  RJ. Skip the basics and go for the better.

[spilledmilk]

Anyone with pix?

I used to have this RJ Lightwood strat; the cheapest strat they have, but sounded better than their more expensive models. Maybe it was the white pine (palochina?) body. I had it modded into a double fat strat and looked like this...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/vegetablejoe/RJ_Litewood.jpg

Would have come out better if the body had had a swimming pool route, para tama yung puwesto ng humbuckers...

hey!!! meron din ako nito!
ang status nya ngaun...as a back up guitar...or pinapahiram ko sa mga kakilala kong nagstastart ng band na walang gamit. pinapabayaan ko na gasgasan nila or whatever...para magkaroon pa ng personality yung gitara.
i sanded of fthe big letters "RJ" from the headstock. removed the pickup covers (w/ made the output a little bit louder...ewan ko).
basta astig sya.

i think best feature ng RJ guitars (RJ stratcopies in particular) is the neck. sobrang thin nya...as in ok na ok sya if yer one of those shredder-people. siguro it was designed for the common pinoy hand...siguro.