hulika

Author Topic: Dissecting HIYAW... the science, the psycho-acoustic nature, and the fallacies  (Read 46966 times)

Offline bryanarzaga

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so if you guys settle for mojo as the word to describe it..wouldnt that be another personal thing?  wouldnt that be more of a connection between the person and the instrument? such as matching the guitar that is in one's head?

there's no denying that there is that favorite guitar,but think big as well, how many guitars out there that will have more properties than the one you currently have..

just putting it out there..

Offline pitongjerome

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so if you guys settle for mojo as the word to describe it..wouldnt that be another personal thing?  wouldnt that be more of a connection between the person and the instrument? such as matching the guitar that is in one's head?


preference..
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones

Offline IncX

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so you have a tonal characteristic that's so hard to find, expensive most of the time, nearly impossible to explain and impossible to record...

cool. sounds like god. lol

Offline page8six....

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Mali ka kapatid... mali ka.

Ang ibig nya sabihin, basta mamahalin ang gitara mo ok na, kahit hindi marunong magitara. Magician ka na rin daw...



ah ganun pala hahahaha salamat sa info brother bench  :lol:
“If you don’t know the blues, … there’s no point in picking up the guitar and playing rock and roll or any other form of popular music.”
– Keith Richards

Offline pualux

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so you have a tonal characteristic that's so hard to find, expensive most of the time, nearly impossible to explain and impossible to record...

cool. sounds like god. lol

as much as I am against blasphemy, I found this totally hilarious  :-D


Offline xaero

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Is this a supernatural thing? Heck I can even hear the roaches talkin' to each other when I'm on drugs, How come I don't seem to hear the "hiyaw" that they speak of in here? If it's something that makes you feel good when ya hear it, Then I definitely hear that a lot with some guitars regardless of which brand.

Offline stringman

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so if you guys settle for mojo as the word to describe it..wouldnt that be another personal thing?  wouldnt that be more of a connection between the person and the instrument? such as matching the guitar that is in one's head?

there's no denying that there is that favorite guitar,but think big as well, how many guitars out there that will have more properties than the one you currently have..

just putting it out there..

The term "HIYAW" was coined by Alex in GC. It doesn't really describe anything. "Mojo" on the other hand can be more universal than what Alex describes it. It's a personal preference, one feels good in playing his six string. In a sense, "MOJO" applies to anyone may it be a cheapo or expensive gear. As long as his fingers bonded with the instrument. If you mention "HIYAW" in other foreign forums they might ask "What the [strawberry] are you talking about?".
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones.

Offline arkeetar

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sayang naman yung hiyaw  :-D joke lang poh hehehe

Offline bryanarzaga

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The term "HIYAW" was coined by Alex in GC. It doesn't really describe anything. "Mojo" on the other hand can be more universal than what Alex describes it. It's a personal preference, one feels good in playing his six string. In a sense, "MOJO" applies to anyone may it be a cheapo or expensive gear. As long as his fingers bonded with the instrument. If you mention "HIYAW" in other foreign forums they might ask "What the [strawberry] are you talking about?".

so if we go by alex's description..he does hear it, one is supposed to hear it..so if it is mojo, usually some movies with that go "no man the mojo is in you all along.."

i like skunky's post but if its not that..then what is? the term hiyaw if i ask all the people that speak tagalog around me say its scream or to get louder..however during my college or hs years i think the term had to do something with a shampoo commercial..



Offline acidtest

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...so hindi nare-record tong 'hiyaw'? mukhang di ko sya kailangan then...
- Joyo AC tone demo

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Offline spankyrigor

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however during my college or hs years i think the term had to do something with a shampoo commercial..

hiyang, bro. :)

anyway I agree with your contention that it's more of a connection between a one and his instrument. Granted it IS easier to bond with a well made instrument, but it's not entirely on the guitar. The responsibility also falls on the player to carry a certain skill level to coax the tones out.

I'll stop now. My post is turning into a Tone-is-in-the-hands argument. Narinig niyo na yun. Would be nice to hear about the other aspects of the discussion.

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challengeofthegobots

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...so hindi nare-record tong 'hiyaw'? mukhang di ko sya kailangan then...

this....

sus

Offline orangeogre

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Hindi nga ba "Note Bloom" ang hiyaw?

Mojo = Balls, Vibe, pagiging astig (imho)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 08:11:58 AM by orangeogre »

Offline glassjaw_jc

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mojo just made more complicated.. i think note bloom is the closest translation.
Surf's Up!

Offline deltaslim

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mojo just made more complicated.. i think note bloom is the closest translation.

note bloom is the closest translation to "hiyaw" itself because of the sound we often associate with it (higher order harmonics). but i prefer the term double tone since it implies not just the highest order harmonics.

i'm sure someone will say it's more than just note bloom or double tone...  whatever it is, our goal should be to eventually know what produces it and how to reproduce it. but my point is that note bloom or double tone, along with other great properties of good tone, can explained in physical terms. we don't need to restort to metaphysics.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 05:27:41 PM by deltaslim »

Offline riffscreamer

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...so hindi nare-record tong 'hiyaw'? mukhang di ko sya kailangan then...

*Standing ovation + slow clap*

Offline bryanarzaga

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hiyang, bro. :)

haha my bad..

Quote
anyway I agree with your contention that it's more of a connection between a one and his instrument. Granted it IS easier to bond with a well made instrument, but it's not entirely on the guitar.

yes and no..confusing eh? but its true..its easy to bond to like its feel, playability and sound(tone)..but usually its the overall syncing to one's perceive sound(guitar in the head)..that matters alot..well to me in someway it does..to sum it, for me its easy to make a well playing, nice sounding guitar..but its so hard making/choosing a go-to guitar..

Quote
The responsibility also falls on the player to carry a certain skill level to coax the tones out.

lets put this is a testing out in choosing that right guitar..and yeah skill matters(both hearing, playing/feel) in determining if that is the guitar for you..even having someone pick a guitar for me is something that is still a risk, you may either like or dont like the sonic properties of that guitar..

Quote
I'll stop now.

dont stop :D

Offline Bolt Thrower

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the concept is just too esoteric and mystical to me. you can't measure it. there's no yardstick to prove it. doesn't mean anything.

alot of the guitarists who made their mark in history probably has their no.1 guitar without this Hiyaw thing.

Offline deltaslim

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I understood you perfectly:

On point#1, there is such a thing as luck in picking out a guitar thats why I cannot even fully endorse all the Fender guitars at Yamaha Buendia store in the same way I cannot endorse all the Fender Custom Shops at Ludlow New York.

On point#2, that there is magic.  My suhr modern was one serial apart from exactly the same suhr modern with the same materials and configuration.  The only difference was the color, yet my suhr modern which only one serial higher, sounded rich and alive while the other one sounded dead.

On point#3, buying capacity is true for high end instruments that deliver the goods.  I wish it were otherwise but it is just plain NOT so.  I am not saying all high end instruments sounds great or good but the great ones are unfortunately expensive.  I will say this -- No Ibanez Prestige will ever match my Grey Suhr Modern.  Period.  I tried very hard to look for an ibanez Prestige to match the Suhr and NO such luck.  I also want to own a Prestige but sorry talaga palyado laban sa magandang suhr modern maski anong sulok ako ng mundo pumunta.

On point#4, ano nga ba inexplain ng Beauty of the Burst?  If you read it again, its trying to get technical and yet does NOT review each individual Burst in its covers with regard to its so called simple explanation.  I will assume its trying to explain a good sounding burst (lets give Yashuro the benefit of the doubt).  Eh anong explanation niya sa panget na burst?  Wala.  Kaso mas maraming panget na burst so what is physically going on in a bad sounding burst?  Its never explained and thus... its not science nor is it fact.  Even Yashuro does not claim it to be science and fact anywhere in his book.  Ikaw lang nag claim na science and fact and ang mismong author hindi nag claim niyon.

So if you think electric guitar is more of a science, its more religion than you think....


Like I said, I won't debate with you because you keep misquoting/misunderstanding me and I don't understand your point/logic.

---


I do encourage others to pursue more serious study of guitar engineering and psychoacoustics.  It won't hurt to learn the science behind your passion; in fact it can only help.  If you know more about the instrument and how it works,  the more you'll improve in selecting good instruments and using them to their fullest potential.

Here's some research links for your initial reading list:
http://www.guitarengineer.com/index_files/Page2240.htm

Websites pa lang yan, madami pa sa print books. The journals will be harder to find. I only cited the BOTB book because it's more popular and less academic in tone.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 11:36:59 AM by deltaslim »

Offline deltaslim

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...so hindi nare-record tong 'hiyaw'? mukhang di ko sya kailangan then...

hehe. onga naman. pero kung di kaya irecord, ibig sabihin ba di rin kaya ma-pick up ng mic/mixer/PA setup? so pag live kailangan within earshot ka talaga dapat ng amp. hehe. ayos to ah. how convenient.

Offline pitongjerome

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kelangan mo ba talaga ng "hiyaw" para maging maganda ang tunog mo?  :-D

Yes...  When it comes to making equipment sound better.... it is more important than your own hands.

 :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o

then i lol'd
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones

Offline bryanarzaga

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...so hindi nare-record tong 'hiyaw'? mukhang di ko sya kailangan then...

lol..

the concept is just too esoteric and mystical to me. you can't measure it. there's no yardstick to prove it. doesn't mean anything.

alot of the guitarists who made their mark in history probably has their no.1 guitar without this Hiyaw thing.

and in the end they are tools..for making music..it shouldnt get in the way..a good guitar is a good guitar..

Offline pitongjerome

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hehe. onga naman. pero kung di kaya irecord, ibig sabihin ba di rin kaya ma-pick up ng mic/mixer/PA setup? so pag live kailangan within earshot ka talaga dapat ng amp. hehe. ayos to ah. how convenient.

hi sir, i believe LOTS of modern recording equipments could "hear" what our ears cannot perceive.. ano pa kaya ang sound from a guitar that's plugged in an amp..

for example: whale's "sonar" speaks etc..

i personally think its not the ear.. its the BRAIN.. thinking you are hearing this and that.. interpreting it a certain manner.. and OVERTHINKING IT, and OVERINTERPRETING IT..
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 02:37:06 PM by pitongjerome »
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones

Offline Bolt Thrower

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in the end, all we are talking about is both resonance and overtones. not this magical mystical hiyaw unicorn.

Offline rolexm

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Yes...  When it comes to making equipment sound better.... it is more important than your own hands.

Please elaborate and demonstrate if possible.