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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: jmreyes on November 18, 2010, 11:56:44 AM
Title: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: jmreyes on November 18, 2010, 11:56:44 AM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
I'm starting to think it's more reasonable to purchase a solid state amp with a nice clean tone and use it as a pedal platform.
I'd really appreciate input from folks who think likewise as well as from hard-core-tube-amp-all-the-way people.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: BAMF on November 18, 2010, 12:24:52 PM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
I'm starting to think it's more reasonable to purchase a solid state amp with a nice clean tone and use it as a pedal platform.
I'd really appreciate input from folks who think likewise as well as from hard-core-tube-amp-all-the-way people.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
Iba. Next level na yun, kumbaga and IMHO. You don't start a guitar journey with tube amps agad (again IMHO). But yeah, there are merits to playing through an SS amp and get your tone from your pedals.
Parang wine appreciation yan. You start with the cheap table wines then as your taste and appreciation for the taste and aroma and even history upgrades, so you also do with your wine acquisitions. Same it is with tone and gear. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: kurtseth on November 18, 2010, 12:34:00 PM
i've had all three types of amp solid state hybrid tube amps and most recently a pure tube amp.
to be honest i found the tube amp sweeter sounding.. and i've found that ommppphhh factor that i was looking for. i rarely plug in to my vox amp (vox ad50vt)
i found my cub 10 really sweeter sounding...
with pedals and such the amp sings
it is a wise investement if it would mean that you would find that tone in your head.
im still on my way there though im looking for that dumble tone (robben ford) that could only be satisfied by a dumble or an ethos overdrive
or a zendrive :)
and there aint anything wrong with having a pedal setup plugged into a tube amp :) nor a solid state amp :)
depends on what sounds pleasing to you.. since tone is subject to the ears of the person.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: blacktele on November 18, 2010, 12:38:29 PM
Iba. Next level na yun, kumbaga and IMHO. You don't start a guitar journey with tube amps agad (again IMHO). But yeah, there are merits to playing through an SS amp and get your tone from your pedals.
Parang wine appreciation yan. You start with the cheap table wines then as your taste and appreciation for the taste and aroma and even history upgrades, so you also do with your wine acquisitions. Same it is with tone and gear. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
Nice one sir BAMF, it's like being a tone connoisseur. :wink:
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: juan_portnoy on November 18, 2010, 12:50:17 PM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
I'm starting to think it's more reasonable to purchase a solid state amp with a nice clean tone and use it as a pedal platform.
i have been asking the same question and entertaining the same idea for quite some time now. i'm gonna follow this thread.
i think the most basic question is: is there a big difference between SS and tube amp clean tone, such that tube clean tone is still superior?
this is because the basis for comparison will be clean tone only, since dirt and OD will come from the pedals. i hope this question gets addressed specifically. :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: bryanarzaga on November 18, 2010, 12:57:00 PM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
I'm starting to think it's more reasonable to purchase a solid state amp with a nice clean tone and use it as a pedal platform.
I'd really appreciate input from folks who think likewise as well as from hard-core-tube-amp-all-the-way people.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
bai tubey amps daghan design variances, if i was on a budget and never cared what i buy(which i practice), then i'd choose my KLD over my blackstar and other amps, SS i can live with a marshall or roland jc120..
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: juan_portnoy on November 18, 2010, 01:03:38 PM
i have been asking the same question and entertaining the same idea for quite some time now. i'm gonna follow this thread.
i think the most basic question is: is there a big difference between SS and tube amp clean tone, such that tube clean tone is still superior?
this is because the basis for comparison will be clean tone only, since dirt and OD will come from the pedals. i hope this question gets addressed specifically. :-)
Could the difference be more about feel and response (i.e. sag, tubes getting hot) as well as odd and even harmonics? I've been asking the same question too and I'd best follow this thread as well :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: maxi_musikero on November 18, 2010, 01:06:38 PM
Could the difference be more about feel and response (i.e. sag, tubes getting hot) as well as odd and even harmonics? I've been asking the same question too and I'd best follow this thread as well :-)
exactly...feel and response. this should be something like a Vox SS vs. Vox tube or Fender SS vs. Fender tube. tapos clean tone ang basis of comparison. to keep the playing field as equal as possible, with the only difference is SS or tube. :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: bryanarzaga on November 18, 2010, 01:10:32 PM
i have been asking the same question and entertaining the same idea for quite some time now. i'm gonna follow this thread.
i think the most basic question is: is there a big difference between SS and tube amp clean tone, such that tube clean tone is still superior?
this is because the basis for comparison will be clean tone only, since dirt and OD will come from the pedals. i hope this question gets addressed specifically. :-)
thats hard to do when you need an amp voiced designed similarly only that one is tube and one is SS, the best way to do is to go try one..like the roland bolt and roland jc not the same designed but both from roland, both have nice cleans but the bolt having less of a in your midrange, but both have less than desirable drive channels..
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: siore on November 18, 2010, 01:10:51 PM
I used to think you should only get your drive from the amp if it's all tube, but pedals provide flavor if you get so used to the amp's drive sound. Pwede naman kahit ano, especially with good dirt boxes nowadays, depending on your mood. Ex. Instead of dirt or OD running on clean or slightly driven tube amp platforms, imagine the guys relying on their distortion pedals and running their high-gain amps on clean. Dati napapa-iling ako, but now I also understand. Variety is the spice of life, and accumulating/flipping pedals is cheaper than collecting amps. Now, if you go with a SS amp for its clean platform, would you also appreciate the drive sound you get from cranking it, should you feel the need to?
Anyway, if you wanna run pedals most of the time, I'd suggest you still go with tube amps, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with SS. Tube amps would color the tone of your pedal, yes, but I still feel it should be a basic building block of your overall tone, and one should learn to work with it. With SS amps, I feel the shift of tone more to the pedal side of things, losing the nuances, dynamics, and touch-connection I like in tube amps. Even setting the tube amp on clean (ergo, down to the most sterile linear range of tube operation :-P ), there's still a bit of those characteristics, and gives you more when you crank things up. So while I can get by with (and like!) a SS amp, it will sometimes leave me feeling like something's missing.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: bryanarzaga on November 18, 2010, 01:16:44 PM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
Of course.
That's actually what I am always after. Plain clean. Dirt driven by pedals.
Best ones I got and let go are: Carvin legacy - EL34 loaded but the first channel is just plain clean. I don't know what Phil (forum member here) did with it. And I rarely used the dirt channel. So it's basically a clean sounding amp for me. Fender Quad Reverb housed in a twin reverb 2x12 combo cab. - Master volume. All cleans. Totally clean.
I wish I could get both of them back. Or most likely purchase both in the future. Super combo!
BUT. There's a lot of good SS amps out there that can deliver. Best is you try as many as you can. From shops and the used market.
As for amp dirt, the only amp that got me is the Bogner 101b. Just epic.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: siore on November 18, 2010, 02:09:32 PM
Friends (Check) Money (Check) A well slept opposite sex Guitar (Check) Microphone (Check)
:lol:
Well, there are adjectives around, but I'd rather not list, as it's different for different people, and arguable. Better to leave it at 'nuances'.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: mikki_blinkme on November 18, 2010, 02:16:27 PM
musta naman response ng tube amo pag main dirt e multieffects?
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: boybangs on November 18, 2010, 02:38:30 PM
In terms of wattage, would a 5 watt tube amp (Epi Valve Jr, Blackheart Lil' Giant, etc) be good enough for bedroom "Chug-chug"? Would it accept pedals well?
Wouldn't it be hard transitioning from practicing with a tube amp then playing live with venues usually equipped with SS amps? Tweak tweak :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: kurtseth on November 18, 2010, 02:44:14 PM
I used to think you should only get your drive from the amp if it's all tube, but pedals provide flavor if you get so used to the amp's drive sound. Pwede naman kahit ano, especially with good dirt boxes nowadays, depending on your mood. Ex. Instead of dirt or OD running on clean or slightly driven tube amp platforms, imagine the guys relying on their distortion pedals and running their high-gain amps on clean. Dati napapa-iling ako, but now I also understand. Variety is the spice of life, and accumulating/flipping pedals is cheaper than collecting amps. Now, if you go with a SS amp for its clean platform, would you also appreciate the drive sound you get from cranking it, should you feel the need to?
Gotta agree with this. I see it as more of a tonal option.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: maxi_musikero on November 18, 2010, 03:04:52 PM
Dati napapa-iling ako, but now I also understand. Variety is the spice of life, and accumulating/flipping pedals is cheaper than collecting amps. Now, if you go with a SS amp for its clean platform, would you also appreciate the drive sound you get from cranking it, should you feel the need to?
agree 100%. all the more important to get the ideal amp in one go and to lockdown your tonal priorities as far as the amp is concerned (i.e., clean or driven amp).
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: jmreyes on November 18, 2010, 03:42:21 PM
I understand the concept that people use dirt pedals to provide them with a variety of tonal colors. Fender-y, Marshall-y, Vox-y, Dumble-esque, etc.
For further discussion, what i'm really trying to get at is, are the so-called "nuances" (feel, response, harmonics, etc.) from playing a tube amp CLEAN that apparent AFTER you smack it with a solid-state pedal? Wouldn't a pedals design and character inherently mess up these nuances? Say the pedal is too compressed, doesn't have the most dynamic response, etc.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: BAMF on November 18, 2010, 04:16:34 PM
I understand the concept that people use dirt pedals to provide them with a variety of tonal colors. Fender-y, Marshall-y, Vox-y, Dumble-esque, etc.
For further discussion, what i'm really trying to get at is, are the so-called "nuances" (feel, response, harmonics, etc.) from playing a tube amp CLEAN that apparent AFTER you smack it with a solid-state pedal? Wouldn't a pedals design and character inherently mess up these nuances? Say the pedal is too compressed, doesn't have the most dynamic response, etc.
Ahhh. There are ideal combinations. For instance, smack a Marshall amp with a Marshall Guvnor and...oh well. For me, it's GROTESQUE.
Safe to play with "transparent overdrives"...or more properly they're clean boosters as they don't mess around with your amps tonality.
I'm starting to be of the opinion that the Tubescreamer series, while not exactly a transparent overdrive, is the most "amp-friendly pedal" there is.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: r_chino18 on November 18, 2010, 04:33:25 PM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
This was one thing I greatly, and I mean greatly, considered when I was looking for a tube amp. Will I be using only the clean channel and get my dirt tones from pedals?
Quote
I'm starting to think it's more reasonable to purchase a solid state amp with a nice clean tone and use it as a pedal platform.
This one is really helpful since there are lots of cheaper SS amps out there that have great cleans yet can still handle pedals well. Most of them are gig ready at a fraction of the cost of a 30+ watt all-tube amp.
Quote
I'd really appreciate input from folks who think likewise as well as from hard-core-tube-amp-all-the-way people. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.
I set my mind that I'm going to get a tube amp. I was looking for something that has two channels, not just one. Why? If I only have one channel, most of the time it will be tweaked to sound clean. Dirt tones will come from dirt pedals.
My thinking is, I already shelled out a lot of cash for the tube amp yet will still shell out some more for various dirt pedals. Not too practical in my case.
A two channel tube amp would be really helpful so I can switch from clean to dirty using only the amp. That means, my dirt sounds will come from the tube amp as well as my cleans. With that kind of setup, I save a few cash on pedals and at the same time get to maximize the use of my amp's potential.
Next thing I did was to look for a two-channel tube amp within my price range that can deliver the cleans and dirt sounds that I want. Take note, both must be satisfied first.
Finally, I got myself my own amp. Don't have any pedals with it, just a pedal tuner and an amp footswitch.
Pros and cons of having a tube amp (clean and drive channel are used) than getting a solid state amp/tube amp driven by pedals
All are IMHO, Pros: 1. Drive channel is hard to beat by pedals. Why? It cleans up really well. Useable cleaning up, imo. You roll down the volume knob and still get a very natural mellow overdriven kind of sound. Do that with pedals and it won't sound the same. It's still the same sound with just less gain. Not much action to it. A bit sterile and bland.
2. Price-wise? Just shoot one two-channel amp and you're good to go. Buy a tube amp/SS amp + pedals and you still invest on additional cables and power supplies and a pedalboard, etc.
3. You get to bond with your amp and your sound. You can maximize the use of the huge investment.
4. Minimizing losses particularly in signal since you are connected straight up.
5. A tube amp that fits in your bedroom but still has the balls to go to gigs? Can't beat that. You dictate and carry your sound. Less tweaking. Satisfaction.
6. Tube change can change your sound.
Cons: 1. GAS don't stop. Somehow, you'll want to add flavor to what you're getting. It's not bad. That's life.
2. Pag bigla kang nagsawa sa drive sound, you know what's next. Parang pedal lang din yan, pwede ka magsawa sa tunog pag nagtagal.
3. If a newer and cooler version came up.
etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: siore on November 18, 2010, 04:44:30 PM
I understand the concept that people use dirt pedals to provide them with a variety of tonal colors. Fender-y, Marshall-y, Vox-y, Dumble-esque, etc.
For further discussion, what i'm really trying to get at is, are the so-called "nuances" (feel, response, harmonics, etc.) from playing a tube amp CLEAN that apparent AFTER you smack it with a solid-state pedal? Wouldn't a pedals design and character inherently mess up these nuances? Say the pedal is too compressed, doesn't have the most dynamic response, etc.
Yes to a degree the tube amp still plays a part. I wouldn't say the pedals mess up the tube amp's nature, but rather the tube amp improves on the qualities of the pedal, assuming they're a good match as BAMF pointed out. Especially if the amp's clean is set right where the tubes are starting to get worked up. But in your example where most of the compression occurs at the pedal, I'd set the amp to the most sterile clean setting. I guess if you want a more consistent 'pedal dirt' tone, you do want a flat clean setting on a SS amp, over a tube amp that will behave differently at different gain staging and volume levels. Most of your tone comes from the stomps then. I'd still say go for a good solid foundation, akin to a chunk of clay you mould later on, in a good tube amp.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: fraudulentzodiac on November 18, 2010, 04:47:09 PM
have you tried plugging in an old fender all tube amp and use distortion pedals? :-)
that's when the "magic" happens, I can't explain it either. I never bought tube amps for their tube overdrive before (well except maybe the Carvin X100B which had awesome gain), I've always been a "Butler Tube driver plus a fuzz pedal" kind of guy and I've used them with tube amps set to clean before, I can say there's a difference compared to, say, a Peavey Bandit or Transtube. Although now I use a ZT Club 12 (a single channel solid-state amp) and I'm pretty happy with the sounds I'm getting from it, I'd say it comes pretty close to what I had before with a Classic 30 or a Blues Deluxe.
I think acquiring a tube amp is still worth the investment even if you just intend to use the clean channel, perfect example would be a fender twin reverb/dual showman reverb, i love that particular amp and I think what makes it special is it's clean sound, ang hirap kumuha ng amp drive diyan na di ka nabibingi kung wala kang attenuator, and even if you crank it, based on my experience, it doesn't break up to overdrive that much. :lol:
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: siore on November 18, 2010, 05:19:43 PM
.... I think acquiring a tube amp is still worth the investment even if you just intend to use the clean channel, perfect example would be a fender twin reverb/dual showman reverb, i love that particular amp and I think what makes it special is it's clean sound, ang hirap kumuha ng amp drive diyan na di ka nabibingi kung wala kang attenuator, and even if you crank it, based on my experience, it doesn't break up to overdrive that much. :lol:...
OT saglit: ... you tried other tubes? :-D You CAN get it's pre-amp into overdrive territory, then boost the front end some more with pedals. VERY nice. Though, it needs to be a little loud at least, below a certain level, it's too fizzy. Driving the PI and output tubes, OTOH, is difficult.. but again at a certain setting its effect kicks in and fills out the sound of the driven pre-amp.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: boncram on November 18, 2010, 05:33:38 PM
are the so-called "nuances" (feel, response, harmonics, etc.) from playing a tube amp CLEAN that apparent AFTER you smack it with a solid-state pedal?
OO. i have drive pedals that are compressed but when i use them with my tube amp they almost lose their compression (although andun pa din talaga espcially if you pair them with uncompressed gain pedals), because the tube amp itself is not "flat" sounding. SS amps are boring. They sound "flat". Kahit JC120 pa yan. WALANG DIMENSION. at yung compressed gain peds sobrang compressed sounding na talaga with SS amps.
Iba pa rin talaga clean ng tube sa SS. Naging kulob at boxy tunog ng SS amp ko simula nung nagka tube ako hence parang ang labo tuloy ng tunog ng drive pedals ko pag sa SS.
so to conclude, hindi lang yung "nuances" ang makukuha mo sa tube. pati ung mismong clean sound talaga hamak iba sa clean sound ng SS.
saka sabi nga nila ang pedals naman tinetest at dinedesign using tube amps diba?
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: fraudulentzodiac on November 18, 2010, 05:58:23 PM
^^ well my solid state amp sounds otherwise. :-)
have you tried a ZT Club 12?
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: oliverb on November 18, 2010, 06:07:38 PM
watching this thread. was sold on buying the cub 10 kaso nadinig ko yung demo nung stagg 60w SS, now i'm torn
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: boncram on November 18, 2010, 06:09:26 PM
hindi pa. ok so i generalised :lol: mahal ba yang ZT Club 12?
hehe it's cool bro, compared to a tube amp with similar output (whatever tube watt matches 200 watts of solid state) I think it's considerably cheap. It goes for 25K brand new if you get it locally, I'm sure it's cheaper abroad. :-)
afaik, ZT designed their amps to somehow capture the desirable aspects of tube amps, and making them more portable and less hassle (in terms of maintenance and durability). :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: lenpopz on November 18, 2010, 10:40:43 PM
watching this thread. was sold on buying the cub 10 kaso nadinig ko yung demo nung stagg 60w SS, now i'm torn
Same here. :oops:
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: teleclem on November 18, 2010, 11:06:01 PM
I have to say that I've gotten the best results by using a tube amp on the verge of break-up and slamming it with a very responsive & transparent (meaning it keeps the sound of your guitar and amp) od. It has to be a pretty good od though. It depends sa od, imo. Some don't sound that great talaga, kahit tube amp gamit mo. Unless it's new year's eve, it's gonna be hard to crank your amp hard.
When it comes to a very clean amp though.. everyone points to the Suhr Riot. High gain nga lang talaga.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: maxi_musikero on November 19, 2010, 10:38:06 AM
OO. i have drive pedals that are compressed but when i use them with my tube amp they almost lose their compression (although andun pa din talaga espcially if you pair them with uncompressed gain pedals), because the tube amp itself is not "flat" sounding. SS amps are boring. They sound "flat". Kahit JC120 pa yan. WALANG DIMENSION. at yung compressed gain peds sobrang compressed sounding na talaga with SS amps.
Iba pa rin talaga clean ng tube sa SS. Naging kulob at boxy tunog ng SS amp ko simula nung nagka tube ako hence parang ang labo tuloy ng tunog ng drive pedals ko pag sa SS.
so to conclude, hindi lang yung "nuances" ang makukuha mo sa tube. pati ung mismong clean sound talaga hamak iba sa clean sound ng SS.
saka sabi nga nila ang pedals naman tinetest at dinedesign using tube amps diba?
let's not turn this into a tube vs SS word war bro. :lol:
but good inputs i'm sure gotten from experience. but would the tube amps break up the clean tone when the tubes get hot? sorry for the noob question since i have yet to own a tube amp. thanks in advance! :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: r_chino18 on November 19, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
let's not turn this into a tube vs SS word war bro. :lol:
but good inputs i'm sure gotten from experience. but would the tube amps break up the clean tone when the tubes get hot? sorry for the noob question since i have yet to own a tube amp. thanks in advance! :-)
For single channel tube amps, maybe. For two channel tube amps, not much. Perhaps pag lang sobrang lakas ng volume ng clean channel at magcclip na yung tube. Pero it can be changed by swapping out with a different preamp tube which handles clean sounds better. :-)
In my experience, when the tubes get hot, mas gumaganda ang drive/dirt sounds.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: maxi_musikero on November 19, 2010, 11:03:54 AM
For single channel tube amps, maybe. For two channel tube amps, not much. Perhaps pag lang sobrang lakas ng volume ng clean channel at magcclip na yung tube. Pero it can be changed by swapping out with a different preamp tube which handles clean sounds better. :-)
thanks man! am i right in saying i need a preamp tube with more headroom for clean tones? can you suggest some brands? :-)
thanks man! am i right in saying i need a preamp tube with more headroom for clean tones? can you suggest some brands? :-)
yeah, this is what i know as well. heard it from jmorrero's Dxmble modded Fender Concert amp.
Not really an expert on the different brands say of 12AX7 preamp tubes. I think spankyrigor has a thread on that one. My amp's preamp has 3 tubes in them. One for clean, the other for overdrive, and the last as a phase inverter ( i dunno what it really is). Pero from what I've read, Tung-sols are good tubes when it comes to clean stuff. Mullards are also great for cleans, better than Tung-sols. Pero for the price, Tung-sols are hard to beat. :-) Then JJ for the OD is fine. I dunno with other tubes though. :-D I'm basing this also for my Classic 30. Dunno pagdating sa preamp tubes ng fender.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: BAMF on November 19, 2010, 11:51:41 AM
Not really an expert on the different brands say of 12AX7 preamp tubes. I think spankyrigor has a thread on that one. My amp's preamp has 3 tubes in them. One for clean, the other for overdrive, and the last as a phase inverter ( i dunno what it really is). Pero from what I've read, Tung-sols are good tubes when it comes to clean stuff. Mullards are also great for cleans, better than Tung-sols. Pero for the price, Tung-sols are hard to beat. :-) Then JJ for the OD is fine. I dunno with other tubes though. :-D I'm basing this also for my Classic 30. Dunno pagdating sa preamp tubes ng fender.
Don't forget the Shuguang and Valve Art tubes. They may be cheaper, but the bang for buck is quite good.
Double-mica insulator pa ang Shuguang tubes na nabili ko. Military spec yun a.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: Letour on November 19, 2010, 01:06:14 PM
Is this straight to amp? If so, what were your EQ settings?
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: william251082 on November 19, 2010, 02:52:33 PM
Noodling on Gibson ES335 --> monster cable --> zendrive --> EHX memory toy --> hardwire Reverb --> fender pro junior and vox nighttrain on a line 6 12" cabinet
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: maxi_musikero on November 19, 2010, 03:33:53 PM
Silverface fender tube amps bro, lalo na twin reverb or dual showman reverb. you will go way past gig levels before you experience overdrive. :-)
hey thanks bro! but i don't think i'll be getting a big tube amp. i'd prefer something that's portable but big and loud enough to hold it's own over a drummer in practice. i have 2 specific amps in mind: fender blues jr and vox nighttrain. :-D
Not really an expert on the different brands say of 12AX7 preamp tubes. I think spankyrigor has a thread on that one. My amp's preamp has 3 tubes in them. One for clean, the other for overdrive, and the last as a phase inverter ( i dunno what it really is). Pero from what I've read, Tung-sols are good tubes when it comes to clean stuff. Mullards are also great for cleans, better than Tung-sols. Pero for the price, Tung-sols are hard to beat. :-) Then JJ for the OD is fine. I dunno with other tubes though. :-D I'm basing this also for my Classic 30. Dunno pagdating sa preamp tubes ng fender.
noted bro. yeah i heard that Tung-sol gives good clean tone with the friendly pricetag. thanks! :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: fraudulentzodiac on November 19, 2010, 03:47:40 PM
hey thanks bro! but i don't think i'll be getting a big tube amp. i'd prefer something that's portable but big and loud enough to hold it's own over a drummer in practice. i have 2 specific amps in mind: fender blues jr and vox nighttrain. :-D
hehe bro, incidentally I had both before. I tried using the Blues Jr. before at a jam at Kublai's Katipunan, I cranked the amp to 100%, still can't be heard over the drummer. We were jamming over some classic rock songs and blues back then. I ended up mic'ing it na lang.
The NT I was not able to bring to any jam or gig, but ever since that Blues Jr experience, I always said that if I'm getting a tube amp for gigs and jams, I'd better go 25W or more or else I'll have to mic the amp. anyway, with 100W of all tube I guess you can't go wrong with that, plus a lot of headroom for clean. :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: william251082 on November 19, 2010, 04:24:25 PM
hehe bro, incidentally I had both before. I tried using the Blues Jr. before at a jam at Kublai's Katipunan, I cranked the amp to 100%, still can't be heard over the drummer. We were jamming over some classic rock songs and blues back then. I ended up mic'ing it na lang.
The NT I was not able to bring to any jam or gig, but ever since that Blues Jr experience, I always said that if I'm getting a tube amp for gigs and jams, I'd better go 25W or more or else I'll have to mic the amp. anyway, with 100W of all tube I guess you can't go wrong with that, plus a lot of headroom for clean. :-)
Hindi ka marining nung na-crank up mo yung blues jr? rock blues lang ang tugtugan hindi metal? ang lakas naman niyang banda na yan, hindi ba sapawan ng volume na yata yung nangyayari dun o baka pangit yung sound sa venue?
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: fraudulentzodiac on November 19, 2010, 04:28:31 PM
Hindi ka marining nung na-crank up mo yung blues jr? rock blues lang ang tugtugan hindi metal? ang lakas naman niyang banda na yan, hindi ba sapawan ng volume na yata yung nangyayari dun o baka pangit yung sound sa venue?
the acoustics of the venue weren't that great, and I was competing with two fender cyber twins and a very loud drummer. although whenever I gigged, di talaga kaya ng 15W yung banda ko, and we play classic rock and some pink floyd. the amp is audible, but overall can't be "heard". :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: william251082 on November 19, 2010, 04:33:33 PM
the acoustics of the venue weren't that great, and I was competing with two fender cyber twins and a very loud drummer. although whenever I gigged, di talaga kaya ng 15W yung banda ko, and we play classic rock and some pink floyd. the amp is audible, but overall can't be "heard". :-)
Oh ok, anong balak mong alternative sa blues jr mo? twin reverb maybe? :roll:
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: fraudulentzodiac on November 19, 2010, 05:09:14 PM
Oh ok, anong balak mong alternative sa blues jr mo? twin reverb maybe? :roll:
hehe, I sold that blues jr 3 years ago. I now bring a ZT Club 12 to gigs and jams. much smaller and lighter than the blues jr. :-)
I also had both a Silverface twin reverb and dual showman reverb converted to 2X12 combo before, I was stupid to trade/sell them away because I thought they were too big for me but now I miss the tone I was getting from them before. :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: Red_Strat on November 19, 2010, 05:16:05 PM
Is it still a wise investment to purchase a tube amp if you're just gonna run it clean and use a bunch of OD / Distortion pedals to achieve your dirty tone?
I was thinking about this when I was about to purchase a new amp for home/bedroom/small jams. I was pretty much decide on getting a Vox Pathfinder (great SS amp btw), but a friend told me to try out the new Laney Cub10 first. It didn't make sense to me either.. what's the use of a tube amp if I'm gonna use pedals for my dirty tones?
The moment I plugged in, I instantly felt the difference. Of course, I heard the difference too.. but then again my old amp was cr*p. It just felt easier for me to coax good tones.. and my dirt pedals felt/reacted/sounded better to match. With those conditions, tube was the way to go for me.
I set my tube amp to a clean setting, but it'll overdrive a bit if I hit the strings harder. I think it's that kind of amp setting that helps make dirt pedals sound better.
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: leech on November 19, 2010, 05:36:53 PM
I set my tube amp to a clean setting, but it'll overdrive a bit if I hit the strings harder. I think it's that kind of amp setting that helps make dirt pedals sound better.
^^THIS. :-)
Title: Re: Smacking TUBE AMPS running clean with DIRT PEDALS
Post by: Taoistguitarist on November 21, 2010, 12:30:38 PM
i recently got meself a tube amp with a nice clean tone. :-D and although the drive channel of this amp really rocks, i prefer the sound of the clean channel and my dirt pedal. less hassle pa for me as i won't have to use the send/return option if i use the drive channel of the amp if i use modulation effects.
But the best way is to try out your pedals on a nice tube amp's clean channel and compare it with the drive channel. Whatever floats your boat. :mrgreen: