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The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: jakobspiral on December 18, 2007, 04:59:57 PM
Title: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: jakobspiral on December 18, 2007, 04:59:57 PM
Ok, I have a question...
About old vinyl records before digital became the standard, I heard that a lot of collectors buy the original vinyl because the CD sounds like crap. Why weren't the recording engineers able to transfer the vinyl quality faithfully into the CD?
If they weren't able to transfer them faithfully back then, will they be able to transfer the vinyl quality into digital format now? Or, does vinyl hold a special advantage which digital has yet to duplicate?
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: jplacson on December 19, 2007, 12:31:48 AM
CDs have a very limited frequency and dynamic range vs vinyl. Mp3s are far worse than CDs... so you can see that it isn't really getting "better". Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's better. 8-tracks sounded far better than the 2-track cassettes in the 80's. It's all about lowering costs to make more profit.
Digital counterparts for vinyl are SACDs and DVD Audio. Although a lot of audiophiles will argue otherwise... I feel that 24-bit SACD and DVD Audio comes pretty close to vinyl. But mind you, we're just talking about the medium here.
But for the most part, CDs, 320kbps mp3s, and Dolby Digital audio is good enough for all but the most elitist audiophiles.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: jakobspiral on December 19, 2007, 01:21:44 AM
CDs have a very limited frequency and dynamic range vs vinyl. Mp3s are far worse than CDs... so you can see that it isn't really getting "better". Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's better. 8-tracks sounded far better than the 2-track cassettes in the 80's. It's all about lowering costs to make more profit.
Digital counterparts for vinyl are SACDs and DVD Audio. Although a lot of audiophiles will argue otherwise... I feel that 24-bit SACD and DVD Audio comes pretty close to vinyl. But mind you, we're just talking about the medium here.
But for the most part, CDs, 320kbps mp3s, and Dolby Digital audio is good enough for all but the most elitist audiophiles.
Oh, I see...
Thank you very much for the info. :-)
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 19, 2007, 03:13:37 AM
i have a very, very bad vinyl record addicition.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: jplacson on December 19, 2007, 12:57:16 PM
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 19, 2007, 06:39:01 PM
ei Jacob! long time no see bro.
Like mikey(abbys)... if i really were to choose between cd's and vinyls, id go for the vinyls.
to answer your some of your query Jacob...
Siguro dala na rin ng pagiging turntableist ko nung araw thats why i still love those vinyl records.
Heres a brief history... in the early to mid 90's, CD mixing is introduced to DJ's but DJ's problem is how are they gonna do scratching with this CD players that has only the cue button, the pitch control, play/pause, forward rewind. Then in the mid 90's PIONEER introduces the CDJ's decks "BUT" most of the DJ's still dont like the feel of doing scratchings on rubber ttables on the top of the cd decks. But now Numark and Technics and other brand names have developed a deck with a fake vinyl on top of the decks so those dj's can still feel a vinyl on their hands eventho its a cd player :D
I just bought some vinyls at djcity.com and meng! ill tell you eventho those samples are digitally recorded... the sound coming out from the styl/cart to the tone arm to the mixer then out on the amps and speakers... its really sweeter!
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: KitC on December 19, 2007, 07:17:23 PM
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: greenweenie on December 19, 2007, 11:03:58 PM
Personally, I like vinyl better. The album sleeve itself is an art form. My dad has Live in Isle of Wight by the Who and the garbage from that show is included in the sleeve. I think its the same with the Woodstock record. The sound quality of vinyl has warmth and its soothing. The only downside to vinyl is obviously, the size. And the convenience factor of skipping tracks. I think the reason why people in the old days had singles so that they had only the songs they wanted. 2 cents.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 19, 2007, 11:49:40 PM
Like mikey(abbys)... if i really were to choose between cd's and vinyls, id go for the vinyls.
to answer your some of your query Jacob...
Siguro dala na rin ng pagiging turntableist ko nung araw thats why i still love those vinyl records.
Heres a brief history... in the early to mid 90's, CD mixing is introduced to DJ's but DJ's problem is how are they gonna do scratching with this CD players that has only the cue button, the pitch control, play/pause, forward rewind. Then in the mid 90's PIONEER introduces the CDJ's decks "BUT" most of the DJ's still dont like the feel of doing scratchings on rubber ttables on the top of the cd decks. But now Numark and Technics and other brand names have developed a deck with a fave vinyl on top of the decks so those dj's can still feel a vinyl on their hands eventho its a cd player :D
I just bought some vinyls at djcity.com and meng! ill tell you eventho those samples are digitally recorded... the sound coming out from the styl/cart to the tone arm to the mixer then out on the amps and speakers... its really sweeter!
i agree with jeps that although CD sounds clearer and is not as prone to the same wear and tear as vinyl, a lot of DJs find it hard to let go of the tactile sensation that you get with mixing on records. I have used the "vinyl top" CD players that Numark, Pioneer and Vestax have come out with but I never really liked them. Even for units with a heavier jog/ vinyl top, the feeling is not the same even though they try to mimic the weight of the platter on the units as well as they can.
Personally, I can't ever bring myself to buy a Pioneer CDJ or any other CD based player because the feel just seems to odd for me. However, I do appreciate the use of products like Final Scratch because it allows me to use songs not released on vinyl live in the clubs on on my mixes without having to go through the trouble of wasting a few CDs just to play some songs. These days I usually mix with 3 tables (if available), keeping 2 tables for records and the third only for Final Scratch. The flexibility works great and I get to have the familiar feel of mixing on vinyl.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: KitC on December 20, 2007, 02:29:00 AM
So which of the 2 formats has better bass? Lemme hear your thoughts...
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 20, 2007, 03:32:01 AM
So which of the 2 formats has better bass? Lemme hear your thoughts...
i would say that CD has more consistent bass over vinyl for the very reason that the quality of vinyl varies so much from manufacturer to manufacturer and from label to label that you might get a well cut record one time and have a really shallow one the next. however, if you do get your hands on a well cut record, like say from Subliminal (dance music label) or the LPs released by Columbia back in the day, the bass sounds more organic - bigger even - in comparison to CD. It is also noteworthy to mention that the type of stylus you choose has a lot to do with how well the bass translates from record to amplifier as well. For DJ spinning, I am a huge fan of Ortofon and Shure needles and Matsudaira stylii for home listening.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 20, 2007, 04:13:31 AM
what are your views mikey on comparison between Shure m44-7 and Ortofon OM Qbert for scratchings? But i really wanna get my hands on Ortofon Concordes. Currently im using Shure M44-7 on my SL1200's :)
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 20, 2007, 05:04:15 AM
i've only used the Qberts from Ortofon and they track and cut through the mix really well. Between Shure and Ortofon, you really can't go wrong with either company because they both make great needles that I've used for years. However, I favor the Ortofon concorde pro for general mixing because I find they have the best balance in sound between different genres. I mix a lot of progressive, techno, house and DnB with the occassional acid and broken beat so I need a needle that translates well between subtle and really pounding music. I can't say I have any complaints about the Ortofons, really.
Do you normally put a weight on your stylus? If you don't, I find that the Shure actually tracks better than the Ortofon for really aggressive tablework. I am kind of a stickler for being light on the stylus weight because it is hard enough hunting down some records, the last thing I need is to speed up the damage on them when I play out.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: Tarkuz Toccata on December 20, 2007, 07:36:55 AM
Check this out...
RANE Vinyl/CD Turntable USB Interface (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,12866.0.html)
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 20, 2007, 08:48:52 AM
RANE Vinyl/CD Turntable USB Interface (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,12866.0.html)
that's what I use but i have final scratch, not serato's product. Before Stanton/ Serato acquired the Final Scratch technology, it was making rounds in the US through John Acquaviva and Ritchie Hawtin. Ritchie actually used it first after comissioning some Dutch developers for a product that would allow him to integrate his laptop into the DJ set. I think the first time I saw Final Scratch in its "road" version was in the early 90's...imagine my curiosity when I saw the product at a DJ set. I was going,"How does he...what the hell is that?!?"
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 20, 2007, 10:03:57 AM
actually havnt tried putting a weight on the headshells yet. with my m44-7 ok naman sya fo7 table works since i only fills for my like dj kilmore of incubus. maybe if djcity.com has stock of qbert styl and cart by january il probably get one.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: mariuo on December 20, 2007, 02:26:05 PM
is it true that analog would capture room ambience/vibration? i kinda remeber reading it somewhere hehe. i dunno if its a bunch of hooey
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 20, 2007, 05:02:30 PM
RANE Vinyl/CD Turntable USB Interface (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,12866.0.html)
i heard that Final Scratch is way better because it uses firewire and Rane only uses USB 1.1
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: Tarkuz Toccata on December 20, 2007, 06:52:27 PM
FS2 vs SSL vs CDX The Ultimate Showdown (http://www.skratchworx.com/reviews/showdown/showdown_intro.htm) - Rane Serato wins!
Quote from: DJ Manila Ice
I can't really see how people can make the argument that this wasn't a fair comparison. This Serato program was on a inferior computer in comparison to the 3.2 ghz processor, and still performed to the same par, and in my opinion better then the Final Scratch 2.
The programs use such little system resources as well.
I can run my Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, Ares, MS SQL server, and video and other dumb sh1t in the background with this hoe, and not have a problem.
So to those that want to say otherwise, keep in mind I have a degree in Computer Science, and until you take a Computer Systems Architecture class, fail it and pass it on the 2nd try because your first professor was a [sausage] and got fired anyway after failing nearly half the students, and is now driving a taxi cab (true story), keep your comments to yourself until you are knowledge about the subject.
To me it comes down to price: they all do the same sh1t in my opinion.
Serato is the cheapest to me, because everyone has a Desktop or Laptop. It also performs the best in my opinion.
The CDX will cost about 1600.
Final Scratch 2 is about 600 from what I saw last.
The most ideal product I would use: a CDX using Serato with the time code CDs
I would use this because there's no skipping, the sound is good, and you get all the music you want.
Some advice to companies: Keep in mind that many aren't very apt to change.
Many of the djs like vinyl, for historic purposes, sound, personal preference, or the "keeping it real" argument.
So you have to make products that don't say FU(K YOU to those users.
And please find a way to put this software into cheaper devices that do the same thing instead of a laptop (which might get jacked by some assh0le), maybe an ipod or a turntable that has a hard drive built into it.
Both the software packages have problems. Fix them.
As far as I'm concerned I would feel much better taking out a CDX to many gigs, instead of the software packages, simply because of potential SYSTEM crashing, and the fear of theft of my laptop.
Also integrate things into mixers, like effects, or software processors. Don't put them on the Turntables.
Well that's my review.
I personally own Serato and if anyone has any questions contact me at:
djmanilaice@crowdcontrolrecords.com
Manils
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: Tarkuz Toccata on December 20, 2007, 07:29:46 PM
Serato vs Final Scratch (http://www.biggie.co.nz/interaction/forum/dj_general/serato_vs_final.html) - Rane SSL wins again!
Quote from: Soba
FS2 is a good product, but the simple fact is that it is more system intensive and less stable than Serato. So if you have it running well on your machine, that's fantastic, but a lot of other users have not been so lucky. I currently have both located in my house, my own SSL and my flatmates FS2, mine on a cheap laptop and his on a pretty bling Mac. Despite me fiddling with it and the more powerful computer, FS2 has a noticable latency ... to the point that i can't scratch on it and have trouble cueing up... and various glitchy habits plus has crashed on me a few times. SSL with a few basic Windows tweaks has been boringly reliable.
Anyone with software support experience will tell you that at the end of the day, there is an element of luck in whether your particular hardware and software combination will work flawlessly with any particular application. Sounds like you've been lucky enough to get a good reliable combination. Everyone else i know with a FinalScratch product has not been so lucky. On the flipside, almost every SSL owner i know has had it running with very few issues.
With technology like this, especially for DJing, you need a reliable solution first and foremost. In the booth is not the place to be working around issues and fixing bugs. SSL has a well deserved rocksolid reputation for this, mainly because they won't add any more features until the previous set is running as well as possible. One more note in SSLs favour.. the simple interface is a godsend. To switch between Absolute and Relative in FS takes several windows and a fair amount of mouse action, in SSL its a single button click. Everything is simpler and more streamlined in SSL, and you don't have the 98 features you don't use or use once a month clogging things up. There is definitely a place for extra features, but that place is not before stability and ease of use.
Btw i know DJ gear and i can tweak an OS to a fairly advanced level, so don't go telling me i don't know how to optimise my equipment.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: makinao on December 20, 2007, 09:06:57 PM
I'm not a DJ, so my comments are restricted to evaluative and recreational listening. I grew up with vinyl having been born in the 50's, and have had CDs since they were introduced in 1982. So I feel qualified to comment on this issue.
I do not miss vinyl. I did not enjoy the maintenance involved: cleaning and washing records, cleaning styli, adjusting tonearm balance and anti-skate, cartridge overhang, etc. Call me OC, but surface noise, static and scratches drove me nuts. These artifacts also sucked out at least 10% of the available dynamic range of vinyl, which was limited to start with. So don't get me started with dynamic range. And don't say my setup was to blame. My last (and still extant) TT was a Technics SL-3200 with a Shure V-15 type V cartridge, which is more than decent by any standard.
So when CDs arrived, I just looked ahead, and my TT has been in cold storage since. I'll open it up occasionally when I want to hear an old LP that I don't have a CD copy of, but for the most part, I'm pretty much done with fussing over it. Sure CDs are more strident than vinyl, but dynamic range, noise, and channel separation are light years better.
For casual listening, I choose CDs, DVDs, and all the data-noncompressed digital variations of those (SACD, DVD-A).
For recording, my preference would be high-res digital (96/24) with the best available converters.
My analog medium of choice is analog tape: 1/4" 2-track at 15 ips or better, and 2" 24-track at 30 ips or better. For both listening and recording, I'll choose this over vinyl any day.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: Tarkuz Toccata on December 20, 2007, 11:20:12 PM
i heard that Final Scratch is way better because it uses firewire and Rane only uses USB 1.1
Scratch LIVE / Final Scratch Comparison
The main questions we get from customers when talking about Scratch LIVE and Final Scratch are, why is Scratch LIVE better than Final Scratch 2? Isn’t Firewire better than USB?
Scratch LIVE is a better choice because of:
1 - Sound Quality
With vinyl emulation it is not just the sound or touch that makes it feel like real vinyl, it’s the marriage of the two. Here at Serato we spent many sleepless nights getting this absolutely perfect, and it is! There is nothing that you can do on your turntables that can’t be done on Scratch LIVE - it is the real deal.
2 - Latency
Latency is very important; it is the amount of delay between the movement of the record and the corresponding sound output. Final Scratch publicize the fact that their system has “Firewire for ultra low latency” - Scratch LIVE uses USB, and has half the latency of Final Scratch 2, resulting in a much tighter feel. High latency results in a ‘sloppy’ feel, as if there is a problem with the turntable. For information on how to do this test yourself see scratchlive.net
3 - Stability
This is the most important thing when you are playing live, and Scratch LIVE is rock solid, which is something that Final Scratch is not well known for. Recently Jazzy Jeff performed with Will Smith at the Philadelphia Live8 concert that was broadcast live to two billion people using Scratch LIVE, he can do that because he knows he can trust Scratch LIVE. A lot of high profile DJs have switched from Final Scratch to Scratch LIVE for this reason.
4 - Customer Service
We take this very seriously, and any problems or questions you have will get answered fast. Scratch LIVE is famous for exceptional support and the forum is moderated by both Serato and Rane Staff. You will get your problems and suggestions read by the people who can make a difference and answer accurately. After the real vinyl feel of Scratch LIVE and its stability, customer service is the next main reason why DJs choose Scratch LIVE. Hundreds of Final Scratch users have switched to Scratch LIVE.
5 - Backwards compatibility and free upgrades
We think that once you buy Scratch LIVE you should be able to use it forever. The hardware alone is tough enough to survive for a lifetime. And we don’t think that you should have to pay for upgrades, so all new software updates are free. We also don’t think that just because we have a new good idea your product should become obsolete. So when we release new hardware, the software continues to be compatible with both the old and the new hardware so you can continue to get the latest software, even if you don’t have the latest hardware. This is not the case with Final Scratch where you need to pay for software upgrades and the Final Scratch 2 software can’t be run with the Final Scratch 1 hardware.
Rane SSL is a standard equipment already in most popular clubs around the planet. Also, many manufacturers of turntables and CD players want to be Serato-friendly. Just take a look at Numark iCDX and Pioneer's CDJ-400...
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 20, 2007, 11:36:04 PM
mejo OT na tarcuz about the scratch live and final scratch.
last OT question... how much is it locally? its $485 daw sabi ng friend ko na nasa US ngayon ang final scratch
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: Tarkuz Toccata on December 20, 2007, 11:53:17 PM
mejo OT na tarcuz about the scratch live and final scratch.
just got carried away. sorry!
Quote
last OT question... how much is it locally? its $485 daw sabi ng friend ko na nasa US ngayon ang final scratch
i don't know the price of FS locally. it used to be around $600 in the US. humina siguro ang sales kaya binagsak ang presyo. current list price of SSL is around P29k.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 20, 2007, 11:57:30 PM
oh sorry... im refering to rane scratch live pala yung $485. just ym'ed my friend a while ago and shes in LA. i asked her to ask about the price of scatch live w/c is $485 nga daw and the Final Scratch is $520. i even checked sa MF and other music sites... mas mahal talaga kung sa web ka bibili at may taxes pa.
any idea on local prices?
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 21, 2007, 12:03:10 AM
haha-jeps, you'd expect all the hotheaded comparisons between DJs to eventually occur at some point because some people will always like one product over another. Personally, if you are using one over the other AND it accomplishes what you want to do as a DJ, what wrong is there in your choice? My advice would be to look into the expansion options for the package you want and see if it provides your needs well and maybe a bit more. The main beef I have with people that hotly contest one product over another is the mere subjective nature of the matter; both products are very good and I would readily gig with FS2 or Scratch Live anyday along with my vinyl because this is the way I do business as a DJ; i integrate digital and analog without the need to burn CDs. FS2 has worked well for me and that is all that counts:)
Some people report that they have had hiccups with FS2 and other report that they haven't. I have been running FS for almost 2 years now on a Mac laptop (briefly on a Dell XPS as well) and I've never had a problem. Granted, the Mac's job is ONLY for doing DJ sets so it might have a more trimmed down set of software than others that use their machines for music AND non-music things.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 21, 2007, 12:09:11 AM
Im starting to have a GAS Attack on FS2 and SL
why? i want to play with our bands vocalist voice on the turntables hehehe.
unlike before... i heard that DJ Kilmore had a vinyl customized with Brandon Boyd's voice for some of Incubus songs during the late 90's till the early 2K :D
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 21, 2007, 02:34:51 AM
why? i want to play with our bands vocalist voice on the turntables hehehe.
unlike before... i heard that DJ Kilmore had a vinyl customized with Brandon Boyd's voice for some of Incubus songs during the late 90's till the early 2K :D
true and the same went for Linkin Park. Joe Han actually had test vinyl pressings to do the scratching effects before the time of CDJs and FS/SL.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 21, 2007, 10:30:12 AM
true and the same went for Linkin Park. Joe Han actually had test vinyl pressings to do the scratching effects before the time of CDJs and FS/SL.
yup nabasa ko din yung kay joe han. its much easier na ngayon dahil sa fs2 and sl noh?
i already watch the demo videos of these products pero naguguluminahan (lalim tagalog ko noh?hehe) pa rin ako on how a turntable be able to control the software and the music you have on the computer. hehe
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: xjepoyx on December 21, 2007, 03:02:08 PM
laki talaga patong locally noh? from $485 sabihin natin plus taxes and shipping mga $520 lang yun thats 21K pesos lang. pero parang ok na rin kesa mag intay pa sa padala mula sa US
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on December 21, 2007, 11:46:14 PM
yup nabasa ko din yung kay joe han. its much easier na ngayon dahil sa fs2 and sl noh?
i already watch the demo videos of these products pero naguguluminahan (lalim tagalog ko noh?hehe) pa rin ako on how a turntable be able to control the software and the music you have on the computer. hehe
yup...products like FS and SL have changed the DJ scene a lot for the better.
ang lalim talaga - reminds me of my old Fil language class in HS - yung literature like Ibong Adarna was mad deep...so deep in some points that I was often left scratching my head..lol
Basically, the key to SL and FS products is in the encoding of the vinyl which is quite a remarkable development.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: xjepoyx on December 22, 2007, 01:48:20 PM
patay na! unang GAS ko yata for 2008 ay either FS2 or SL! and of couse an ibook huhuhuhu
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: abyssinianson on December 23, 2007, 04:02:53 AM
patay na! unang GAS ko yata for 2008 ay either FS2 or SL! and of couse an ibook huhuhuhu
uy! i don't know if this item is out there in the Phils yet pero, Jeps, have you tried the new Mackie D4 mixer? I just took the thing for a brief spin and I like it -alot. The EQs, fader and layout of the mixer is great - integrates well with Traktor too!
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: xjepoyx on December 23, 2007, 06:49:19 AM
WOW! ive seen the preview just now! Ang ganda nga! pero grabe its $800
budget ko lang yata is for the Vestax VMC-002XLu, less than $200 lang :D
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: jplacson on December 24, 2007, 03:06:51 PM
I wonder if they'll ever make a DJ version... hehehehe
http://www.elpj.com (http://www.elpj.com)
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: abyssinianson on December 24, 2007, 03:18:01 PM
Considering all the attention–grabbing features on this muscular hybrid turntable, make sure that you don't overlook its most important asset: a slot–load CD player, with MP3 capability. Fear not, because once you start using the X2, you won't forget all of the great attributes packed into this unit.
Numark's X2 benefits from the industry's highest torque, direct–drive motor, which provides the long–term stability and durability that professionals demand. This exceptional turntable employs adjustable pitch control for both 33 and 45 RPM vinyl records, an ultra–precise aluminum tonearm with cue, height, and anti–skate adjustments. Best of all, the X2 utilizes Numark's patented interchangeable straight or S–shaped tonearm. The X2 is specifically designed for long–term dependable operation with its 12–inch anti–drag aluminum platter and solid core construction (which minimizes vibrations and unwanted noise).
The X2's CD player offers full MP3 playback capability as well as the ability to scratch, loop, manipulate and pitch adjust both audio and MP3 data CDs. Since both the CD and turntable can be played simultaneously, this double–threat hybrid turntable represents a bridge between the comfort and control of vinyl and the expansive capabilities of digital music output.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: nongx on January 07, 2008, 10:31:13 PM
Vinyl is more dynamic & better bass most of bar club in US & Europe they are using Vinyl because of wide sound & pumping bass.. Cd is compress sound.... :mrgreen:
You DO know that is a misconception, don't you? You can only put a lot of bass on vinyl before the needle starts jumping around because the groove gets cut uncomfortably close to the next groove. And don't get me started on stereo separation... 8-)
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD
Post by: abyssinianson on January 09, 2008, 02:09:11 AM
You can only put a lot of bass on vinyl before the needle starts jumping around because the groove gets cut uncomfortably close to the next groove.
when I was Djing a lot I was constantly having to battle this so, boy do I know what you mean! there are some companies that have vinyl cut much better than others and others that just go way too overboard at the expense of forcing a lot of DJs to use weights on their needles when they really don't want to because of wear and tear.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: KitC on January 09, 2008, 09:50:01 AM
AFAIK, one of the ways to minimize groove skipping was to increase the distances between grooves. This could provide the necessary bass response but at the expense of play time since you use up more vinyl real estate per song. That's why club vinyls are usually EP's with one song per side.
One thing I've been noticing is that high frequencies are also affected when the needle skips a crest and lands on the next. Supposedly slower rpm's and heavier needle weight should help with needle tracking... reminds me of our old Lenco turntable (my dad was a hifi nut). That turntable had lots of weights for tonearm balancing as well as a counterweight for tangential balancing and another for needle pressure (I usually tracked with this B&O cartidge at 1/2 gram!). Obviously you can't DJ with that table. Those were the days...
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: cosmic_adobo on January 09, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
sarap basahin ng thread na ito...daming matututunan :-o
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: behave_blue on January 30, 2008, 09:21:19 PM
mas mura nga yung sa m-audio...may available na kaya nito sa pinas??
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: chong01 on February 08, 2008, 04:47:59 AM
ang alam ko may m-audio torq sa JB, pero medyo may kamahalan pa rin. and if im not mistaken, may SSL sa audiophile. yon mahal talaga. hahaha. from what ive heard, medyo may latency problems ang Torq and it tends to crash a lot daw (sabi ng nakilala kong dj sa states.) pero for mixing, pwede na daw yung torq. pero kung scratch-heavy ang set mo, migh as well, get the SSL of FS2 daw.
kung may makashare ng experiences with torq, speak up! haha. natetempt din ako kumuha since mas mura nga sha kesa sa leading brands.
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: abyssinianson on February 08, 2008, 11:05:03 AM
Its way cheaper than the leading products kaya im so interested :D
i tried it recently - very nice and it tracks well too. Great pricing and it sounds great. I didn't do very much scratching with it but I couldn't make it lag when I was doing the "crab" with it:)
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: xjepoyx on February 09, 2008, 11:11:53 AM
i tried it recently - very nice and it tracks well too. Great pricing and it sounds great. I didn't do very much scratching with it but I couldn't make it lag when I was doing the "crab" with it:)
yeah! upon watching videos from NAMM 2008 at youtube i think this is one gear that DJs must have.
ang alam ko may m-audio torq sa JB, pero medyo may kamahalan pa rin. and if im not mistaken, may SSL sa audiophile. yon mahal talaga. hahaha. from what ive heard, medyo may latency problems ang Torq and it tends to crash a lot daw (sabi ng nakilala kong dj sa states.) pero for mixing, pwede na daw yung torq. pero kung scratch-heavy ang set mo, migh as well, get the SSL of FS2 daw.
try to watch this bro :D
Title: Re: Vinyl vs. CD and FS2 vs. SSL vs. CDX - Art of Turntablism
Post by: chong01 on February 09, 2008, 04:03:42 PM