Why I think we're left behind in the world of recording...

[skunkyfunk]

Maybe some cynical folks here would say "It is not the arrow but the indian..."  Yeah fine.  Maybe you can use your Soundblaster Audigy, a bunch of pirated software and come up with decent music.  I can even attest that you can nail radio-quality recordings with el cheapo equipment, if given more time and attention.  Believe me, an M-Audio Delta 1010LT setup can beat a 16-bit Alesis ADAT setup some 12 years ago.  Why?  Because today, the power of VST, RTAS or DX plugins were such a goldmine just a few years ago, and you could only have that luxury in the not-so-old large digital mixing consoles, like a Yamaha O2R.  

But then, if all these powerful recording tools are readily available, how come we're still in a rut in the realm of record production from a global perspective?

Just a few months back, I visited 2 different branches of SAE Institute, one in Bangkok, and another in Singapore.  I was absolutely dumbfounded by the training and course lists they had.  While they are sponsored by Protools, they also get some free goodies from SE Electronics, SSL, Neve, Genelec and other high-end recording equipment manufacturers.  Imagine enrolling there, and being able to use a 10-ft long SSL console to finish your homework.  Even Protools LE was trash.  They said they really wanted the TDM systems because they are THE WORLD STANDARD.  And they are not there to promote Protools, but instill proper record production values and foundations, that no school in this country has ever offered.

I teach sound design at a local university, in the Multimedia Arts department.  It is kinda bewildering to think that even a premiere university cannot even have a better curriculum due to the inavailabiity of great equipment, as per Hollywood Standards.  

While I used to believe "It is not the arrow but the Indian", after my trip, after witnessing what world-class standards mean in the realm of recording, now I believe, "A skilled Indian can never win in a duel with an amateur gunman." And rightly so, I think we Pinoys are stuck in a dilemma.  No budget for recordings, hence, studios don't wanna invest in world-class equipment.  

So how are we gonna alleviate from this dilemma?  Tell the record companies to increase production budgets?  Have a wider market scope, and not just localize our target market?  It is a chicken and egg problem.  They don't allocate large budgets because we think we cannot sell much CDs abroad.  And the reason why we don't sell CDs abroad is because we can't even market them well.  We also cannot CONSISTENTLY produce good quality recordings.  Hence, the record companies stick to a minimal budget, thus making us left behind in a rat race.

[glassjaw_jc]

i always believe that its the indian AND the arrow. as always, budget is the reason. plus big record labels are just into making money than investing. sorry state. pero bilib pa rin ako with what most local studios are churning. talagang dinadaan sa tsaga

[Sound Weavers]

I beg to disagree. We are not in a rut - in fact, local knowledge and capabilities base must have improved by at least 500% over the last 5 years. the only caveat is we have a small "paying" market. we do it for the love of music.

- Education, knowledge and knowhow is very accessible nowadays thanks to the Internet. the basics can be acquired - unlike in the age of analog studios - artists and musicians were totally dependent on the engineers.

- but it still takes a lot of time and experience to know the gear's potential  (HW & SW) - after knowing the tools, it's up to the artist how to paint their (aural/sonic) masterpiece. experienced engineers that really know audio engineering will still get most of the calls and the work.

two recent local productions that I thought really kicked ass:
- Embrace by Urbandub
- Paghilom by Dicta.License

JMHO

- Gerry

[skunkyfunk]

I beg to disagree. We are not in a rut - in fact, local knowledge and capabilities base must have improved by at least 500% over the last 5 years. the only caveat is we have a small "paying" market. we do it for the love of music.

- Education, knowledge and knowhow is very accessible nowadays thanks to the Internet. the basics can be acquired - unlike in the age of analog studios - artists and musicians were totally dependent on the engineers.

- but it still takes a lot of time and experience to know the gear's potential  (HW & SW) - after knowing the tools, it's up to the artist how to paint their (aural/sonic) masterpiece. experienced engineers that really know audio engineering will still get most of the calls and the work.

two recent local productions that I thought really kicked ass:
- Embrace by Urbandub
- Paghilom by Dicta.License

JMHO

- Gerry

Yes, but the advantages you said are also available to everyone as well.  While there is no MI or SAE that some engineers can bring under their belt, what makes us left behind is STILL, our equipment.  May internet din sa US at ibang bansa, so what we think as our advantage is also in their hands.

I'll give you a scenario.  Let us say some world-class producer like Glenn Ballard or Mutt Lange would want to record an album outside the US.  Do you think any studio in this country would qualify for the project, even under a closed-door block basis?  

Man just my opinion, but for me, the two albums you mentioned were too tinny, and the guitars sound too processed.  I like Urban Dub's musicianship but the way they sound in the recordings lacks much in clarity and dynamics.  I just don't like the mixing of reverb here and there and the lack of dynamics in the drums.  Very processed-sounding.  As for Dicta, I know Eric can make good recordings but apparently, they said the album was rushed hence some imperfections.

Who I think who are close to being world-class producers are Sancho and Maly Andres.  They make the other local producers look like amateurs.

[pinoymusika]

I wonder if there are some world class studios here kinda hidden from the public view. Check out this site:

http://www.gc4.com/

This is a production facility in Alabang run by Gerald Salonga to do outsourcing of music production, scoring, multimedia, etc. What the Philippines normally does with call centers and IT outsourcing, they are trying to apply to music. I guess if they cater to an international clientele, they need to have their output sound "pang-international".

[glassjaw_jc]

ayos ah

[skunkyfunk]

I wonder if there are some world class studios here kinda hidden from the public view. Check out this site:

http://www.gc4.com/

This is a production facility in Alabang run by Gerald Salonga to do outsourcing of music production, scoring, multimedia, etc. What the Philippines normally does with call centers and IT outsourcing, they are trying to apply to music. I guess if they cater to an international clientele, they need to have their output sound "pang-international".

How much does it cost to record here?   I do have to check the equipment for record production.  I admire Gerard Salonga.  He's one of the international-calibre people I know in the business. But what local albums have been done here?  BTW, it's taking my PC forever to load the site even with a Broadband connection.

[Sound Weavers]

yup - this is a very pro facility aimed at the Hollywood business - music for filmm animation - the works.

I wonder if there are some world class studios here kinda hidden from the public view. Check out this site:

http://www.gc4.com/

This is a production facility in Alabang run by Gerald Salonga to do outsourcing of music production, scoring, multimedia, etc. What the Philippines normally does with call centers and IT outsourcing, they are trying to apply to music. I guess if they cater to an international clientele, they need to have their output sound "pang-international".

[balta]

what did Sancho and Maly Andres produce??

where do u teach skunky funky?

hmm.. what does http://www.gc4.com/ actually do anyway ??
hope i could apply even as just an intern

[abyssinianson]

i think that the Phil music market is behind as far as the availability of recording sources which is why people tend to go for the best "bang for buck' places when they record. SW is right in saying that there is a really small niche for a paying public which makes sense because booking studio time at a bigtime place most likely costs an arm and a leg.

i like how recording at smaller places is rivaling large studios because it is keeping recording in focus with making music for fun. also, i like how the people that actually do the recording work closely withe the musicians they record which makes the process of making records so much more personal.

I am suprised that places such as UP and Lasalle do not have an agreement with Digidesign or something to procur one or two Pro Tools rigs. Although Pro Tools is the Western standard, it is a different story in Europe and Japan where a mix of Pro Tools, Logic, Steinberg and Sonar workstations make the majority of the market. In fact, a lot of big name DJs and bands in the UK prefer Cubase, Logic or Nuendo to Pro Tools because it gives them the flexibility of working with different hardware and software. In fact,  it has worked out that I always start songs on SX 3 or Nuendo because the MIDI interacts better on with them than my PT HD3. Digidesign lags with the friendliness of MIDI, I find. Personally, as long as you master working on one and know your way around, switching platforms when you need to is not a big problem. However, I still maintain that Pro Tools' GUI - although it sounds pretty good - is still not as "attractive" to look at as Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar  or Logic - its a trivial aspect of the program but people I've met who also own Pro Tools gear have actually talked about it..lol

[starfugger]

yes that facility kicks major ass. mr. mike pedero showed me the pics last year.  as i understand their projects are mostly from "international" clients.  and it does seem like something our average musician cannot afford.  correct me if im wrong though.

they have great equipment.  pro tools HD, AKG c12, etc ... an one BIG LCD monitor.  when i say big i mean home theater big.

i have raised this subject in the AAI forum a year and a half ago, starting out quite passionately about how education is the key to global excellence (as far as philippine AE is concerned), but ended up being disillusioned.  everything costs money.  do we go to the states to study (takes 3 million last time i checked) only to come back here MINUS the equipment?

fine.  so we don't have BIG BIG bucks for BIG BIG toys.  let's at least know what we're doing.  education.  
affordable education.  yun yon.  kaso go and check out la salle.  sobrang mahal ng music technology course nila.  PANG MAYAMAN.  even seminars cost a lot of moolah.  

if you ask me something should really be done about this.  paano?  that's the real question.  as of now everyone who can't afford to go abroad or go to La Salle at the very least is confined to the DIY path.

just my opinon.

[abyssinianson]

if money is the problem at home in the phils then, it is sad indeed because there ought to be more people that should know how to make music and have it be heard outside of the country. europe and the US have a lot of places where, if you don't want to enroll in a university setting, there are places that specialize in media degrees or courses. Full Sail in Europe and Florida are a few and then, of course, there is Berklee where you learn the ropes of professional recording from industry professionals and get encouraged to experiment at the same time.

i agree with starfugger that although the skills ARE attainable, not having equipment to carry out your task is a bit tricky. Equipment such as PT HD, Cubase,  Nuendo, Logic and Sonar are not cheap to come by. That doesn't even include the hardware! I certainly hope that the accessibility gets better over time. In the meantime, forums such as these do wonders for the DIY musician, I think.

[starfugger]

well, abyss the next best thing i suppose is do some apprenticeship.  my dream is to apprentice under Angee Rozul of TRACKS.  if i can't go outside the country to study i might as well learn from the best here in the Philippines

[glassjaw_jc]

what are the "big" recording studios here besides TRACKS?

equipment is the key really which equates to money. sadly, we don't have that much to spare.

[KitC]

Some classics were done to 4-track. We shouldn't always let the newest, shiniest, brightest gear blind us to the fact that a good song is what makes a classic. Mastering is the real secret. You can have the latest and the greatest gear, but even that won't polish a turd.

[abyssinianson]

yep - Van Halen even went so far as to record guitars to tape for their next album to get that "warmth" that digital recording can't get. haven't heard the material but, apparently, the band is really getting into analog recording to give their music a new feelingg.

[starfugger]

i feel the same way Kit. i think we are capable of world class sound is we had our stuff mastered internationally (which might cost 5 times more than the recording itself).

yes, musicality is also an issue.  a lot of bands should really think about arrangement and all.

hey, abyss, i thought about that the other day after reading about what  natural tape compression does to distortion guitars. i was wondering why no one is marketing mono or stereo tape recorders that can be sync'd to any regular DAW... or os there such a thing?

[BAMF]

I teach sound design at a local university, in the Multimedia Arts department.  It is kinda bewildering to think that even a premiere university cannot even have a better curriculum due to the inavailabiity of great equipment, as per Hollywood Standards.  

Hahehehe. Only two schools I know have an MMA department, but since you're not in Naga, then I guess....WE ARE TEACHING IN THE SAME SCHOOL.

Meet me at Pao Tsin at the ground floor sometime...let's talk amps

[BAMF]

Queen overdubbed their master to death...when they held the master tape up against the light, they could see the light ! . But that album was nonetheless a classic.

[abyssinianson]

i feel the same way Kit. i think we are capable of world class sound is we had our stuff mastered internationally (which might cost 5 times more than the recording itself).

yes, musicality is also an issue.  a lot of bands should really think about arrangement and all.

hey, abyss, i thought about that the other day after reading about what  natural tape compression does to distortion guitars. i was wondering why no one is marketing mono or stereo tape recorders that can be sync'd to any regular DAW... or os there such a thing?

I wasn't quite getting what you were asking starfugger but there are marketed outboard products that do provide tape-like saturation except that they aren't tape recorders, rather, they are compressors that are used to give digital audio a warmer sound. the saturation I am guessing you were referring to is the natural compression experienced by audio when it gets recorded onto tape. if this is the case, then the compression is mainly due to analog gear being over driven to give the resulting take a warmer, edgier sound. in the old days, the pres were responsible for this but, since then, additional gear can be brought into the signal pathway to apply this feeling of audio "warmth" to any recorded audio. companies such as Manley, Avalon, Tube Tech, and Demeter have opto compressors that people popularly uses to pass their audio through before recording it onto disk in the DAW. In my setup, I use this method by passing my recorded signal through a Tube Tech CL 2A to give it a bit of subtle warmth. For projects already in the DAW, I use a plug called the PSP Vintagewarmer to give tracks that feeling of tape saturation.

[skunkyfunk]

I like these:

VINTAGEWARMER
MAGNETO

But I think they still can't beat hitting a Quantegy 456 on an Otari MTR-90 at 15ips, when everything goes red...

I visited Vehnee Saturno's Studio where he was selling two of his 2" 24-track machines.  The MTR90 was squeaky clean, while the MTR100 needed a lot of  work.  But he was selling each at P250,000, at least.  The MTR100 was priced slightly lower because it needed new rollers.  And I haven't checked if both still have lot of head life.  I don't even think they used MRL tape to calibrate the machines.  But when we compared the Protools recordings and the old analog recordings (O sige na, Jessa Zaragoza and old Regine Velasquez - analog heaven vs. Sarah Geronimo - Pro Tools) and I think the analog recordings had a much fuller sound.

If I had P250,000 to spend for recording equipment, I would rather get a some killer preamps, maybe some RNPs and an EL Distressor.  Or maybe some great guitar amps.  (FYI, I hate PODs).  

It would be nice to have those analog machines, if I had the dough, but I am no Steve Albini.

[pinoymusika]

Some classics were done to 4-track. We shouldn't always let the newest, shiniest, brightest gear blind us to the fact that a good song is what makes a classic. Mastering is the real secret. You can have the latest and the greatest gear, but even that won't polish a turd.

Speaking of mastering, how would you rate Zach Lucero's Tweak Studios? They seem to be getting around lately for mastering local albums.

[pinoymusika]

I wonder if there are some world class studios here kinda hidden from the public view. Check out this site:

http://www.gc4.com/

How much does it cost to record here?   I do have to check the equipment for record production.  I admire Gerard Salonga.  He's one of the international-calibre people I know in the business. But what local albums have been done here?  BTW, it's taking my PC forever to load the site even with a Broadband connection.

Yeah I agree that they went overboard with the Flash code on this site - then again, maybe it was intended for 'international clientele" as well.  I don't think they've done albums here - the real money to keep a place like this humming is in scoring ads and movie productions. (Think of Hit Productions in Makati - first class studios, celebrity composers like Mike Villegas and Rico Blanco - but all for ads, no albums). But who knows, maybe Gerard Salonga will have a pet project up his sleeve.

I found a description of the mysterious GC4 facility on a blog of a director doing a film there. Among other things, the studio can accomodate an entire symphony orchestra!! It is obviously a well-funded operation. It comes off like a mini-WETA in Alabang.

Here is the URL of the blog:
http://inheritedadventures.blogspot.com/

And here is an intriguing quote:

...so monday is when the work really began. monday morning, i got a ride out to alabang (another city just under an hour away from manila) where the GC4 building is located.GC4 is an audio, video/film and 3D animation production house equipped with top-of-the-line equipment (the geek in me got really excited over the design lab where row upon row of G5's and gigantic flat screen diplays could be found) including a recording studio large enough for an entire orchestra, and everything else you would expect to find in such a place. GC4 will be responsible for all the post-production work for "The Inheritance," including the composition and recording of the score, the editing and the motion graphics/visual effects. i met quite a few of the GC4 team at the press conference the other night.

so when i got there, jamie, the director of the video editing department, set me up with a work station and i tried to get some work done. "Work" meaning trying to figure out how the hell i want the film's website to look. most times i work well under pressure and other times, i just don't. this was one of the "other" times.

later in the afternoon, jamie drove me out to the boondocks to meet the team that had been assigned to work with me on the website. The team members are all from a sister company of GC4's, called PC3 (they're quite fond of acronyms here in the Philippines, have you noticed?) the meeting was to be held at the home of the man who owns GC4, PC3 and is responsible for financing almost the entire budget for "The Inheritance." i've met this man before and he's a kindly, unassuming, older man....someone you'd never guess is the tycoon that he is. his home (which wasn't actually his real home but just his weekend home) was so incredible that i felt a little starstruck walking through it. i kept trying to restrain myself from drawing attention to my starstruckness by taking photographs but i couldn't help myself and ended up taking a few shots of the exterior. the interior was incredible but i couldn't bring myself to take photos inside too. the house was built onto the side of a cliff overlooking a bay and rolling hills of tropical jungle. no matter how many floors you went down (there were several floors), you could still see the view out of every window. there were several levels of terraces ( i only stepped onto 3 of them), an infinity pool, a sauna, guestrooms, a conference room (where our meeting was held) , several living rooms, an exercise room, a games room, a glass-walled dining room surrounded by a moat(!) full of swimming koi fish, etc etc etc.

[abyssinianson]

I like these:

VINTAGEWARMER
MAGNETO

But I think they still can't beat hitting a Quantegy 456 on an Otari MTR-90 at 15ips, when everything goes red...

I visited Vehnee Saturno's Studio where he was selling two of his 2" 24-track machines.  The MTR90 was squeaky clean, while the MTR100 needed a lot of  work.  But he was selling each at P250,000, at least.  The MTR100 was priced slightly lower because it needed new rollers.  And I haven't checked if both still have lot of head life.  I don't even think they used MRL tape to calibrate the machines.  But when we compared the Protools recordings and the old analog recordings (O sige na, Jessa Zaragoza and old Regine Velasquez - analog heaven vs. Sarah Geronimo - Pro Tools) and I think the analog recordings had a much fuller sound.

If I had P250,000 to spend for recording equipment, I would rather get a some killer preamps, maybe some RNPs and an EL Distressor.  Or maybe some great guitar amps.  (FYI, I hate PODs).  

It would be nice to have those analog machines, if I had the dough, but I am no Steve Albini.

amen on the vintagewarmer and Cubase's magneto. I have heard good things about the RNPs, and if they are anything like, the RNCs that I use, they must be very, very transparent and easy to use. They are priced competitively too and don't take up much space. I've never owned Distressors but try to use them in mixes whenever I can if I am mixing at a studio that has a pair, they work really well for soft knee compression on overheads to give the final cymbal mixes a good tight sheen to them.

[KitC]

+1 on the RNC's and RNP's - have to buy me one of those sometime. Heard good things about the Distressor too. Hey, abyss! Any word on the Grace Audio 101s?