Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?

[firemodel55]

This is an interesting question...  Alex and Miks? 

I personally define sweet spot as that point in the power range of a guitar tube amp when the guitar sounds sustained, full of harmonics, pleasing to the ear and just plain inspirational.  Its a very small window because more saturation either thru preamp or power amp can cause the sound to be too fizzy in a bad way.  As Eric Claption once said, when you reach that oversaturated point; just back off a bit. 

That being said, a lot of great sounding tube amps don't even need to be at their sweet spots to sound better than solid state or badly designed tube amps.  And there seems to be a cliche with regards to sweet spots as loud.  Not so if you use an inefficient speaker like a Celestion Heritage Greenback G12M which I use on Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber 22.  On the other hand, the efficient Celestion Alnico Blues, have a distinct sound in my AC30 reissue when cranked and its loud at that setting.  Even the design of the guitar cabinet and wood used affects loudness.  So in theory, you can have a 100 watt tube amp driving a small 4 inch speaker cone in a plywood box rated at 100 watts and still be in a sweet spot and yet not sound anywhere as good or anywhere as loud as an AC30.  People throw around talk about wattage without realizing that they should be talking about loudness in decibels. 

Fact: A Great sounding tube guitar amp will beat a Great sounding solid state guitar amp.  Other factors may affect your purchase decision and that includes price whether its justified or not from your limited point of view as non-guitar amp manufacturer. But tube amps for guitar are the standard in terms of sound AND feel while solid state amps for guitar are the standard for cheap and light.   

[nickson]

^Right in the kisser. 

[shredmaestrobri]

^^Well agreed

[freemansj]

I personally define sweet spot as that point in the power range of a guitar tube amp when the guitar sounds sustained, full of harmonics, pleasing to the ear and just plain inspirational.  Its a very small window because more saturation either thru preamp or power amp can cause the sound to be too fizzy in a bad way.  As Eric Claption once said, when you reach that oversaturated point; just back off a bit. 

That being said, a lot of great sounding tube amps don't even need to be at their sweet spots to sound better than solid state or badly designed tube amps.  And there seems to be a cliche with regards to sweet spots as loud.  Not so if you use an inefficient speaker like a Celestion Heritage Greenback G12M which I use on Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber 22.  On the other hand, the efficient Celestion Alnico Blues, have a distinct sound in my AC30 reissue when cranked and its loud at that setting.  Even the design of the guitar cabinet and wood used affects loudness.  So in theory, you can have a 100 watt tube amp driving a small 4 inch speaker cone in a plywood box rated at 100 watts and still be in a sweet spot and yet not sound anywhere as good or anywhere as loud as an AC30.  People throw around talk about wattage without realizing that they should be talking about loudness in decibels. 

Fact: A Great sounding tube guitar amp will beat a Great sounding solid state guitar amp.  Other factors may affect your purchase decision and that includes price whether its justified or not from your limited point of view as non-guitar amp manufacturer. But tube amps for guitar are the standard in terms of sound AND feel while solid state amps for guitar are the standard for cheap and light.

Thanks, Alex.   

[tonwins11]

I personally define sweet spot as that point in the power range of a guitar tube amp when the guitar sounds sustained, full of harmonics, pleasing to the ear and just plain inspirational.  Its a very small window because more saturation either thru preamp or power amp can cause the sound to be too fizzy in a bad way.  As Eric Claption once said, when you reach that oversaturated point; just back off a bit. 

That being said, a lot of great sounding tube amps don't even need to be at their sweet spots to sound better than solid state or badly designed tube amps.  And there seems to be a cliche with regards to sweet spots as loud.  Not so if you use an inefficient speaker like a Celestion Heritage Greenback G12M which I use on Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber 22.  On the other hand, the efficient Celestion Alnico Blues, have a distinct sound in my AC30 reissue when cranked and its loud at that setting.  Even the design of the guitar cabinet and wood used affects loudness.  So in theory, you can have a 100 watt tube amp driving a small 4 inch speaker cone in a plywood box rated at 100 watts and still be in a sweet spot and yet not sound anywhere as good or anywhere as loud as an AC30.  People throw around talk about wattage without realizing that they should be talking about loudness in decibels. 

Fact: A Great sounding tube guitar amp will beat a Great sounding solid state guitar amp.  Other factors may affect your purchase decision and that includes price whether its justified or not from your limited point of view as non-guitar amp manufacturer. But tube amps for guitar are the standard in terms of sound AND feel while solid state amps for guitar are the standard for cheap and light.

Nga-nga ako dito. 

Food for thought na naman... 

[Bolt Thrower]

@Nickson

Eto nasubukan ko lang kahapon. Touring gear ng Death Angel. Pero di siya modern high gain. Swabe ang clean at classic Marshall growl. Ganito sigurong Marshall hanap mo.





Yan for sure di mahahabol ng Marshall MG solid state ang tunog niyan. Kahit sa cleans.

BTT: I think we should have a distinction between solid state amps and digital modelers/digital rack amp or multi efx units. Like how we distinguish between Hybrid amps and tube amps, since hybrids are not really tube amps.

But then how do you distinguish between a Line 6 Spider and a Spider Valve HD? Pareho malayo tunog nila sa isat isa. Pero ang power amp section di talaga full 6L6.

 

[nickson]

@Nickson

Eto nasubukan ko lang kahapon. Touring gear ng Death Angel. Pero di siya modern high gain. Swabe ang clean at classic Marshall growl. Ganito sigurong Marshall hanap mo.


 

You lucky SOB. Ganda ng touring gear nila ah! Death Angel!  Mabait ba sila? Hahaha.

[Bolt Thrower]

Wala sila doon. Pero mabait roadie team. Pinasubok sa akin Marshall pero di pinahawak sa akin mga gitara nila. Napicturan ko lang. 

[skunkyfunk]

Well you are the idiot for assuming that I like the Spider because it can mimic the dual rec. I like the Spider better than the dual rec because it does NOT sound like the dual rec.

I can't believe you fell for that.    Sorry I was just trying to be my old self in the forum.  Sorry for infuriating you. (Self-confessed flame bait)

Anyway, I know where you are coming from.  Sometimes, staple amps may not deliver what a guitarist hears in his head.  For instance, Alex Skolnick one time wanted to shop for a new Marshall and asked the sales rep if he can try out a then discontinued Marshall Mode Four.  The Sales rep said "No one can dial in a good sound from it (Mode Four)." Nevertheless, Skolnick insisted to try it out. Lo and behold, he asked if they had 'more stocks' and the rep asked why?  "This is the best amp Marshall ever made..."

Anyway, it is not really the issue of SS vs. tube... it is knowing what you like/hate from a certain brand and model and knowing if another amp can deliver, regardless if it is tube or not.  In my case, I always end up liking tube amps... which is common for most players.

[kernelsalonpas]

mema lang...

Tuck Andress uses SS paired with his 1949 L-5.
Andy Summers used a roland JC on police albums.
BB King uses a lab series L5
George Benson is an SS user.

on the other end of the spectrum you have
Dimebag
Santana on a Woodstock concert.
Alex Lifeson

and many others...

[aHeartThatNeverFade]

Can chinese tubes amps be as good as brandeds? Example, goldea NT copy vs Vox NT? basis natin quality of sound 'cause I know durability wise, I'll go with orig.

[Bolt Thrower]

Can chinese tubes amps be as good as brandeds? Example, goldea NT copy vs Vox NT? basis natin quality of sound 'cause I know durability wise, I'll go with orig.

Yung mga bugera infenium series na kopya ng mga famous amps ok tunog e. Malapit talaga sa pinaggagayahan nila. Chinese made with chinese tubes. First hand experience ko yung trirec vs the real triple recto tapos 6262 vs 6505+. Very small yung differences.

Pero yun nga baka talo ka sa long term durability at customer service. Pero tunog puwede na.

[free2rock]

Can chinese tubes amps be as good as brandeds? Example, goldea NT copy vs Vox NT? basis natin quality of sound 'cause I know durability wise, I'll go with orig.

Pero yun nga baka talo ka sa long term durability at customer service. Pero tunog puwede na.

Tama. Not exact yung sound, pero pwede na. You can still dial in some of the NT tones from the Goldea pero may difference sa response

[techbp]

Tapos na ba? hehe

[firemodel55]

mema lang...

Tuck Andress uses SS paired with his 1949 L-5.
Andy Summers used a roland JC on police albums.
BB King uses a lab series L5
George Benson is an SS user.

on the other end of the spectrum you have
Dimebag
Santana on a Woodstock concert.
Alex Lifeson

and many others...

Not entirely 100% Solid State users:

Tuck Andress early on used a Fender Twin driving JBL speakers and an early Acoustic Amp.  Nowadays he uses preamps, compressors, mixers, headphone amps, etc. to protect his hearing according to his website.  Andy Summers used a Fender Twin on the police albums too.  BB King is a black face Fender Twin Reverb user prior to the Lab series and continues to use Twin Reverbs to this day.  Santana continues to use the Mesa Boogie Mark 1, Dumble and Cesar Diaz amp.  Alex Lifeson uses Hughes & Kettner and recently PRS amps? (somebody correct me on this...).  George Benson now has a signature Fender Hot Rod Deluxe amp -- may video pa nga sa youtube.

And of course, my favorite, Dimebag has a signature amp with KRANK Amplification.

[aHeartThatNeverFade]

Blackstar ID series vs Tube amps (whatever type it is). Mas ok naman siguro kesa line 6 vs dual rec. 

[Bolt Thrower]

And of course, my favorite, Dimebag has a signature amp with KRANK Amplification.

One he never got to use live or on record according to his roadie in a gw article. Being such an evh fan i sometimes wonder why dime never used 5150 amps.

[aHeartThatNeverFade]

I just love the tightness of 5150 evh. 

[skrumian]

Dime does not need sparkly clean. Just chug chug dirt with the magic of PA mixer.

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[gandydancer123]

I think, in a live situation..at a gig, or jam for example..

if you and your band are rocking it out like theres no tomorrow and the audience are bobbing their heads, jumping aorund, feeling the energy of your music and playing with joy...your amplifier is sounds GOOD! whether its SS or Tube...

[ubersam]

Alex Lifeson uses Hughes & Kettner and recently PRS amps? (somebody correct me on this...)...

Not a correction but just additional info. Around the time of the Vapor Trails album & tour, he added the H&K Zentera & Triamp MkII to his amp stable. The Zentera is a Modeler preamp into a SS poweramp. You could see it on stage but I don't know how much he used it. The Zentera is no longer in his current touring setup. Instead, he has the Fractal Audio AxeFX, along with Marshall, MesaBoogie and H&K tube amps.

[kernelsalonpas]

^^^ yes.

not to mention countless other bands (dream theater, megadeth, etc) switching to digital in live concerts. oops SS vs Tube nga pala to.

[vhunter]

I have an axefx 2 (had a 1)  and gigged it extensively. Its a great tool but it has its limitations.

The axe records PHENOMENALLY, and FEELS GREAT!. Its really an amazing piece of equipment but its performance is limited by the FOH speakers.

First off, you usually have to bring your own monitor (which weighs a ton) have to bring a GCP or Acesss or liquidfoot (which weighs a ton also!) and even if you do all that, youre still at the mercy of the sound guy if he puts you out the FOH. Now, for large stages with IEM I can see why this makes alot of sense, specially where most of what the audience hears is FOH. The other thing that bogs down its use is the Stage mix. Most venues have 1 stage mix so sometimes, they dont let alot of guitar out of em and focus on vocals (which is really more important anyway).  End of the day, for the venues I play, I find that getting an optimal performance out of the Axe is weak... however for recording and practice it is a joy to play. When I do play big gigs.. they are awesome too.

Tube amps have their place when they are trying to power the small club like a saguijo where what the audience hears is the amp. I also like them for more "set up" bars and I use them with a direct box like a palmer DI to get a good clean sound to the board.

End of the day it really depends on what you wanna use and how you wanna do it. No right or wrong answers... but for certain Genres, a tube amp will out perform a SS amp and for others, the reverse is true.

Now for playing my sharona... well...

[alalala]

Now for playing my sharona... well...

he he well said ..btw. any opinions on the Axe fx vs the Eleven rack.. I have owned an 11R/studio monitor setup for a while now and it suits my needs for bedroom wanking as I have always needed only four or five presets that I have always liked no matter what modeller I used in the past.. but the curiosity for an axe fx has always haunted me.. is it really worth the plunge? The versus reviews are making it really difficult for me.

[ermonski]

para sa akin, mas maaappreciate ko ang tube amps kapag cranked up siya, kumbaga mainit init yung tubes. solid states are better for home use, mkakakuha ka pa rin ng tone ng gusto mo without disturbing the neighborhood.