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Author Topic: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines  (Read 9072 times)

Offline judas.cradle

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Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« on: July 29, 2014, 05:48:30 PM »
Mga idol!
Sino sino pa ba mga Guitar Luthiers sa Pilipinas?
Ang kilala ko lang ay si Sir Max Rufo e. hehe

Pa-Post nalang po at palagay ng mga details nya.
like kung saan location nya at paano makoContact.
MagBigay nadin kayo ng Reviews. :)
kung meron din, palagay ng Pics ng mga Pinagawa nyo at mga ginawa nilang Gitara!
Salamat! :D



Offline judas.cradle

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 05:49:29 PM »
 :-D

Online killjom

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 06:27:23 PM »
I think almost all of them has their separate threads here in PM. Just go search for it so that we can avoid redundancy.
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Offline firemodel55

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 08:07:49 PM »
Mga idol!
Sino sino pa ba mga Guitar Luthiers sa Pilipinas?
Ang kilala ko lang ay si Sir Max Rufo e. hehe

Pa-Post nalang po at palagay ng mga details nya.
like kung saan location nya at paano makoContact.
MagBigay nadin kayo ng Reviews. :)
kung meron din, palagay ng Pics ng mga Pinagawa nyo at mga ginawa nilang Gitara!
Salamat! :D

Wala yatang luthier in the truest sense.   Either Guitar repairman OR nagpapanggap na Guitar Builder.

Offline opencoke

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 09:11:40 PM »
Wala yatang luthier in the truest sense.   Either Guitar repairman OR nagpapanggap na Guitar Builder.
This. LOL. :-(
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Offline gnarly

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Offline royc

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Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 01:48:23 PM »
Wala yatang luthier in the truest sense.   Either Guitar repairman OR nagpapanggap na Guitar Builder.

May I know how someone can qualify to be called a guitar builder?

Offline analog.matt

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 02:26:10 PM »
May I know how someone can qualify to be called a guitar builder?

royc, i'll share you how i see things.

Luthier is a heavy title.  it is like being called a master chef.

a master is called a master because he has mastered the basics.

master chefs can cook anything out of anything because they know the basics.

a lot of "builders" in pinas are like Cooking enthusiasts, they follow cookbooks, so to speak.

here in Oz, many people build guitars as a hobby, some have been building for 20 years. but they don't dare call themselves Luthiers.

sa pinas talaga nagmamadali ang tao. even sa guns, naka ilang seminars lang eh gun instructor na. in martial arts ganun din sa pinas. mabilis ang pagpromote

LUthiery in other countries it takes many many years. and many many creations. kahit sa knife and blacksmithing industry ganun din. you have to come up with something really unique to show you

know what you've studied.

Perry Ormsby is one popular Luthier in Oz.

how was he able to demonstrate his mastery over the craft?

he has his own UNIQUE creations. kumbaga marami syang "thesis papers". systhesis ng kanyang pagaaral at experience. he has his own tuning system/compensation system. his own fret arrangement. his own bridges. his own paint formula.

he frequents international guitar shows and has gotten good PEER reviews from people in the industry, aside from customers. parang science community din yan,

if your research is praised by peers and scientific bodies, then it is scientifically sound.

he also has local substitutes for the popular gasgas to death na wood types.

his guitars are pulidong pulido. unlike some luthiers sa pinas, ie tabingi ang fret. how can you call yourself a master eh tabingi tabingi pa lang ang iyong gawa?

before creating his own guitars, pumasa siya sa standard ng iba't ibang popular brands at ginawa pa siyang official repair center. Gibson is one of them.





« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 02:37:53 PM by analog.matt »

Offline royc

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Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 06:06:40 AM »
Google search results define luthiers as someone who repairs OR build stringed instruments. Arie, arcee, micsis, and the likes would easily fit that definition. I also read of a guitar builder who was slammed for thinking that luthiers are limited to guitars.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 06:19:18 AM by royc »

Offline fretboard

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 10:39:03 AM »
Mga idol!
Sino sino pa ba mga Guitar Luthiers sa Pilipinas?
Ang kilala ko lang ay si Sir Max Rufo e. hehe

Pa-Post nalang po at palagay ng mga details nya.
like kung saan location nya at paano makoContact.
MagBigay nadin kayo ng Reviews. :)
kung meron din, palagay ng Pics ng mga Pinagawa nyo at mga ginawa nilang Gitara!
Salamat! :D

http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=294599.0

regarding reviews, may mga dedicated threads naman para sa kanila, search button + back reading may help
try mo kayang kalabitin baka tumunog...


Offline analog.matt

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 11:45:05 AM »
a word can have variable depths depending on how or where it is used.

one can be an accountant in Pinas, and won't be recognized in other parts of the world. however one can be a Chartered Accountant under the ICAEW and you'll be in demand
and well respected around the world.

iba ang selection, training, exposure, experience. ICAEW has proven this for many many decades.

can pinoys become a CA? sure. daanan lang nila yung processo. that is if kaya nila.

same thing with Luthiery. ano ba ang nadaan ni GY bago siya naging ganun kagaling?

sure. there are people in pinas that can do the work and loosely use the Luthier title. their exposure, training, experience will be different nga lang.

being world class is also another thing. you have to prove yourself on the international stage.

hindi naiiba sa drivers license. sure marami lisensyado to drive in pinas. but can they drive in other countries? dami pinoy bumabagsak sa driving test sa ibang bansa

despite of their claims. hence, no matter how overseas pinoys flaunt their licensees, hindi pinapansin ng mga LTO counterparts. na water down kasi ang image.

same banana din yan sa lutheirs, if the title is misused, it will not be taken seriously by others.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 11:52:46 AM by analog.matt »

Offline royc

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Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 11:51:59 AM »
Based on the definition of what a luthier is, there are luthiers in the Philippines. I did not see the term "recognized worldwide" as a pre-requisite to being called a luthier.

BTW ICAEW and PICPA have an MOU to work more closely together. I believe that is an indication that local accountants' capabilities are not [edited] as low as you think.

Arie is also recognized by Gibson, if my memory serves me right. I believe they went here to meet him.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 01:13:41 PM by royc »

Offline analog.matt

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 11:53:54 AM »
its about being accepted by fellow luthiers around the word. parang Peer acknowledgement. then ibig sabihin sound ang experience mo.

like what i previously said, pag na acknowledge ng scientific community na tama ang methodology mo. then that means tama ang ginagawa mo. yun ang analogy.

sa ibang bansa nga ang pagiging carpentero ay dumadaan pa sa apprenticeship eh.

if pinas will always think its the best, it will never move beyond 3rd world status.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 11:56:39 AM by analog.matt »

Offline mbsunga

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 12:20:49 PM »
The ts is looking for luthiers in The Philippines

Baket biglang gumulo ang usapan

Sa pilipinas ang kahulugan ng luthier ay taga gawa ng gitara

Sa ibang bansa, ibang usapan na yan.


Online killjom

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 12:23:16 PM »
Based on the definition of what a luthier is, there are luthiers in the Philippines. I did not see the term "recognized worldwide" as a pre-requisite to being called a luthier.

BTW ICAEW and PICPA has an MOU to work more closely together. I believe that is an indication that local accountants' capabilities are as low as you think.

Arie is also recognized by Gibson, if my memory serves me right. I believe they went here to meet him.

OT: I worked with Chinese, Mongolian, Australian, British and even American CPAs. I'll pick Filipino CPAs without thinking twice.
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Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 12:28:36 PM »
good read..

its true in Philippine setting...guitar techs, and guitar repairmen..and hobbyists are often called luthier as general term... but in more sophisticated societies..luthiery is an art and science that needs years and years of experience..guitar building...woodwork..etc..

notice in foreign forums..they usually address guys who do those typical run of the mill jobs like soldering, guitar set up..string change, pickup change etc...repainting...as.."GUITAR TECHNICIAN"--guitar tech for short...common comments for threads about guitar set up..

"Take it to a tech"...or "find a reputable tech to fix your truss rod" etc..

Seldom you will see them dropping the word "LUTHIER" for set up jobs and wiring repairs..

kaya nga nakakatawa paminsan makakita ng  mga post na..

"Badtrip LUTHIER ko! layo pa naman ng dinayo ko...pinaayos ko yung fret buzz pagbalik sakin may buzz parin..at lalong lumalala.." type of comments... in the true sense pag luthier sobrang high level na ng understanding niya ng guitara..dapat siguradong pagbalik sa iyo wala ng problema..or at least sinabihan ka man lang about how the guitar moves due to weather etc..etc...

eto question...do you think the guys at Sta. Mesa..or Guitar Salon..or sa RJ Galleria dati na nagrerepair ay LUTHIER?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier


medyo mahilig lang kasi pinoys sa "titles"...mga honorable, his excellency, congressman, his holiness etc...pero di naman talaga deserving artista lang or sumayaw sayaw sa entablado...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 12:41:09 PM by gandydancer123 »

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 01:09:14 PM »
The ts is looking for luthiers in The Philippines

Baket biglang gumulo ang usapan

Sa pilipinas ang kahulugan ng luthier ay taga gawa ng gitara

Sa ibang bansa, ibang usapan na yan.
Siguro kasi lumabas yung phrase na truest sense... This whole thing is loaded with baggage and can be interpreted in different ways.

I actually think this is relevant because nicknames and titles get thrown around here too lightly for my liking. On the other hand, I also think that titles and peer recognition are two different things and doesn't necessarily go hand in hand.
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Offline royc

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Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 01:17:24 PM »
My reaction was as a result of the statement that wala yatang luthier in the truest sense. That to me is an allegation that no pinoy luthier deserves the title. To that I have to disagree.

Before reacting I searched the net for the definition of luthier. No world class recognition was mentioned.

BTW I agree that those who only do setups, but no repairs and cannot build are guitar techs.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 01:33:16 PM by royc »

Offline mbsunga

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2014, 01:37:22 PM »
Siguro kasi lumabas yung phrase na truest sense... This whole thing is loaded with baggage and can be interpreted in different ways.

I actually think this is relevant because nicknames and titles get thrown around here too lightly for my liking. On the other hand, I also think that titles and peer recognition are two different things and doesn't necessarily go hand in hand.
Haha this thread actually turned out to be a good discussion about the true sense or meaning of the word luthier and applying it in our philippine setting. The title actually fits the discussions. Sorry ts, mag search ka na lang ng luthiers sa search buttons. Dont worry philmusic still uses the word luthiers for guitar tech and repairman.

Offline royc

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2014, 01:39:32 PM »
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1555478_706731242694566_927854711_n.jpg?oh=f99f484d4ee42cad382bcaf03632ed36&oe=544AB196&__gda__=1413723925_410e85073e0ff0cff5a683257646b2dd


'Beauty of the Burst' author, world renowned collector and Gibson rep Yasuhiko Iwanade flew in from Japan and visited Arie. And you believe there are no pinoy luthiers?

Offline stompmoko

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2014, 02:19:41 PM »
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1555478_706731242694566_927854711_n.jpg?oh=f99f484d4ee42cad382bcaf03632ed36&oe=544AB196&__gda__=1413723925_410e85073e0ff0cff5a683257646b2dd


'Beauty of the Burst' author, world renowned collector and Gibson rep Yasuhiko Iwanade flew in from Japan and visited Arie. And you believe there are no pinoy luthiers?

nothing against arie, or any of the mentioned above..pano kung siya yung "expert" na tingin ni Yasuhiko, qualified na agad as luthier?

i have nothing against titles, i call them luthier, CPA, Engr., Manong foreman or kung ano pa..di ko na kelangan ng malupit na evaluation

good read though..carry on
color of the day is monkey sh1t brown

Offline officebiker

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2014, 02:29:24 PM »
kasama ba sa criteria ng pgiging "luthier" kung gaano kaayos yung shop nya, may pinuntahan kase ko minsan na "luthier", bahing ako ng bahing dahil sa amoy at kalat. :)
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Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2014, 02:35:00 PM »
kasama ba sa criteria ng pgiging "luthier" kung gaano kaayos yung shop nya, may pinuntahan kase ko minsan na "luthier", bahing ako ng bahing dahil sa amoy at kalat. :)

 i think, maari tong aspect na ito...pogi points din sa kanya and reflection ng mindset niya...parang mga masterchefs sa mga bigatin na restaurants...concious sila sa mga mansta at talsik sa white chefs uniform nila....kaya graceful mga galaw nila..
para ding sa construction site or kahit office ng lawyer or architect mo..dapat laging maayos at presentable...mindset at way of life kasi yan eh..for me plus points ito..

sa isip ko yung image ng mga high caliber masters ay japanese na gumagawa ng samurai...skills and spiritual at way of life yung paggawa ng craft niya...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 02:39:26 PM by gandydancer123 »

Offline horge

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Re: Guitar Luthiers in the Philippines
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2014, 02:39:46 PM »
My reaction was as a result of the statement that wala yatang luthier in the truest sense.
That to me is an allegation that no pinoy luthier deserves the title. To that I have to disagree.

Like you, I too would disagree ...but I think I understand the basis for the opposite POV.

Quote
Before reacting I searched the net for the definition of luthier.

Then you might have arrived at the root of almost all contention here: that the term
luthier (or guitarrero) traditionally relates to acoustic stringed instruments, which
are in certain ways more demanding in terms of craftsmanship than electrics, and,
more to the point, is a regulated title in the Old World, earned after apprenticeship
under a master. In that particular application, the term denotes someone who can
build a guitar from nearly scratch, with some purists machining even the gears for
tuning mechanisms, in their tiny one-man (or nearly so) shops.

In that "strictest sense" of regulated apprenticeship and certification, yes, it might
seem that there are no Filipino "luthiers" (Adolfo Timuat y Toyoda aside... and yes,
I'm not sure Tabo Derecho qualifies)... but only if one has his head firmly planted
in the Old World,
where it's not so much having the actual skill, but having the formal
certification of such skill, that matters.

To one who does have his head so-planted, then the only way for a local Filipino to
be able to claim to be a "luthier" is to train in Spain and set up shop here; and then
HE/SHE can begin training apprentice luthiers here, under the same guild guidelines.
Magiging lineage/pedigree 'yan.

Pero naman, if you bring a Spanish-trained luthier to the Philippines, e malamang na
mangangapa yan, kasi iba ang climate and raw materials, no matter how well-certified
he is as an Old World "luthier": malamang talbog sila kay Tabo.

Natatawa nga ako sa criticisms of Pinoy-made acoustic guitars: palpak daw because
the boards tend to shrink and even split in a drier overseas climate. But acoustic guitars
built in drier overseas climates are just as 'palpak', because they can't handle our local
humidity: bubuntis na lang ang soundboard sa bridge, kakalas ang binding, sakal ang
neck, etc... but I digress.



Henyweyyy....
OP was likely asking about electrics, so all of the ^above "strictest sense" blah
never applied. He was likely asking about build/repair of electrics, and the highly skilled
builders we have in this country would more than satisfy his guitar-needs.

Do I think local builders of electrics are world-class?
For custom/pasadya one-offs, I think they have what it takes.
With enough incentive, any of the better "builders" here could match the quality of many
'names' abroad. Kaso nga lang, asaan ang incentive? Lowball ang budget ng clients, e.
Kung bihira lang ang high-end customer, why maintain high-end inventory? If they have
little experience sustaining volume of high-quality inventory, e di kulang rin ang overall
experience nila in terms of consistency in quality, production management, and above
all, aftersales service... all of which counts when assessing "world class" operations.












« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:24:23 PM by horge »