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Author Topic: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang  (Read 41873 times)

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2015, 06:51:44 PM »
As I see things here, and as explained, argued and debated upon, "HIYAW" as it exists, will not be heard audibly in recording and everything not unless you yourself played an instrument with "HIYAW", tama ba sir fm55? Correct if i'm wrong, the way I see it, "HIYAW" gives the benefit of it only to the one who plays, thus the player and does not contribute to the overall sound output of everything via recording, listeners and audiophiles wouldn't recognize if the recorded instrument has "HIYAW" or not. to sum it up, HIYAW will only be present on the players side while the audience side will never have it not until they get to be the player playing the instrument with HIYAW

I can affirm the recording part, it won't work. I also think you're right in the part where the players have to be present with the guitar, but I'd like to clarify with firemodel if only the player can experience the hiyaw or you can be an audience in the same room and still experience the hiyaw.
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Offline david_leyson

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2015, 07:00:26 PM »
I can affirm the recording part, it won't work. I also think you're right in the part where the players have to be present with the guitar, but I'd like to clarify with firemodel if only the player can experience the hiyaw or you can be an audience in the same room and still experience the hiyaw.

Good question, and IF YES, will it be experienced amplified or not?
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Offline ryechua

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2015, 07:12:09 PM »
the more i read the posts about hiyaw in this thread, the more it reminds me of the theory of the scalarizer.
doh!!!

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2015, 08:21:00 PM »
alex, can you post a photo of your custom tele here as well as the specs? interesado rin ako dun sa mga kahoy nya. i personally have experience dealing with wood.

Some shots:




























Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2015, 08:23:38 PM »
the more i read the posts about hiyaw in this thread, the more it reminds me of the theory of the scalarizer.

Iyun ang problema, your experience of hiyaw is limited to reading about it instead of hearing for yourself in person.   By the way, I was the first one who criticized the scalarizer.  And this is no way at all remotely similar to the scalarizer.


Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2015, 08:45:18 PM »
If it is to be felt, then "hiyaw" is SUBJECTIVE in nature.

(Just because something can be felt it does not mean that it cannot be an objective reality.)

If something is subjective in nature, why do you need to prove it as something UNIVERSAL (as suggested by your thread title)?

(Thats the irony is it?  It is exists UNIVERSALLY but SUBJECTIVELY felt.)

It's like saying "That is a great painting, I understood it, because I felt it, so it must be the same for all".

(Mind you Hiyaw is even better than a great painting because it reaches out and touches your soul more so than a great painting because it becomes part of your individual expression.)
Mind you, not all can see past through Picasso's or Gogh's paintings......and we're just talking about art (which is as subjective as music itself).

(If art is as subjective as you say, why then is there GREAT art and BAD art?)
Basing once's claim on that something is absolute or universal on the basis of "how it feels" is dangerous, and at the same time,

(Why is it dangerous?  Love is universal because you can feel it.  The will to live or extreme forms of self preservation is felt and it is the MOST UNIVERSAL basic foundation of life.)

laughably insulting to us who always have the appetite to voice our own opinions to the point of death.

( I am not laughing... Basic lang iyan gusto mo ba matuto o gusto mo lang ba mangibabaw ang opinyon mo?  Sabihin mo na kasi ang gulo ng saysay mo.)

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2015, 08:53:53 PM »
Alam mo firemodel, instead of making excuses, you could spent your time recording the best HIYAW video you can come up with and show it.

(As I said, you can just come over and try the 15 guitars over the sucky Charvel.  Ikaw ang humihingi ng video, ikaw mag finance.  Sabi mo nga wala akong recording tapos hinihintay mo video ko.  Walang credibility dahil hahanapan mo lang ng lusot ang gagawin kong video.
Kaya para wala kang masabi, ikaw na lang gumawa ng video mo para kung nakalimutan mo na ikaw ang gumawa ng video, at least, ma i reklamo mo ang sarili mo at walang turuan sa iba.)

You claimed that great guitar tone is universal (even though it has been already argued that is subjective) , then support your claim.

(Your counter claim that tone is NOT universal is any more objective? It follows na kung subjective ang position mo na guitar tone is universal, then subjective rin ang opposite which is tone is NOT universal.)

You have the burden to prove it because you claimed it.

(The burden of proof only requires that you haul your ass over to listen to my 15 guitars versus the crappy Charvel.)

As of this writing, there's no video from you, none whatsoever.

(So?  Sinasabi ko hindi kailangan ng video.  Pang taxi lang ang kailangan.  Baka gusto mo na bayaran ko pa ang pang taxi mo?  Sige game ako.  Babayaran ko ang pang taxi mo.  Anong gusto mo GRAB o Uber?  Para at least pagkuha ng taxi ay over the internet rin.)

Only excuses...


...and excuses. (sigh)

(Wala akong excuse kasi I can prove my point if you come over.  Anong excuse mo para hindi magpakita dito?)

Typical.



Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2015, 08:57:43 PM »
Question though, what is "hiyaw" in english?

Anyway. I kinda agree to both sides. While "hiyaw" may be present, the way the concept is introduced is kinda blurry. You really can't get away convincing people just by saying "part of it is to be felt." This is the internet. You communicate through text, images, and sounds. You're gonna have a hard time convincing people if you can't send "feel" over the internet.

Kayloyski, here is my reply.  I do not intend to insult you with my answer.  Just take it as is.  Its like Kobe Beef.  I can show you all the pics and the history of Kobe Beef, etc. But there is no equivalent of tasting it.  And let me tell you words are not enough to describe how it tastes.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2015, 09:04:12 PM »
I really enjoy this thread and I do believe that there are exceptionally good and bad sounding guitars out there. Sir Firemodel55 really knows his stuff and its nice of him to share his thoughts.

But if HIYAW can't be heard or felt over youtube or even audio CD's then I personally don't think its a big deal. In live situations, probably mostly gearheads will notice it.

Of course every musician's goal is to achieve the best tone possible but not having hiyaw isn't worth losing sleep over.

Just my thoughts:  Eh kung sinabi ko maaring marinig sa vinyl?  So is it a big deal now?  Its not.  Right?  What matter is that its there in your specific instrument when you are alone practicing, when you record, when you gig and most of all when you are about to decide which guitar to sell.
Believe it or not the first one's to notice hiyaw will be non guitarists kasi, when we gig live our attention is split between hearing our instrument and thinking about the next part to execute with our fingers. The others just hear the full sound of your guitar.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2015, 09:21:24 PM »
As I see things here, and as explained, argued and debated upon, "HIYAW" as it exists, will not be heard audibly in recording and everything not unless you yourself played an instrument with "HIYAW", tama ba sir fm55?
(And fortunately for us guitarists, only our guitars seem to bring the best out of it.  Ok let me say, that if we recorded and mastered at Sterling Studios New York and played back on a DCS Vivaldi CD player at US$108k into a Ypsilon PST100 MK2 Preamp at US$37k
into a Chord SPM 14000 Monoblock na US$80k a pair driving a Wilson Audio Alexandria XLF at US$200k a pair then maybe you can compare a guitar with and without Hiyaw over a recording.)

(Ang problema ko sa mga makulit humihingi ng recording at ayaw naman subukan in persaon  ay bulok naman playback equipment nila tapos pipilitin nila na recording.)
 
 Correct if i'm wrong, the way I see it, "HIYAW" gives the benefit of it only to the one who plays, thus the player and does not contribute to the overall sound output of everything via recording, listeners and audiophiles wouldn't recognize if the recorded instrument has "HIYAW" or not. to sum it up, HIYAW will only be present on the players side while the audience side will never have it not until they get to be the player playing the instrument with HIYAW
(Listeners who have heard hiyaw just say mas magana ang tunog ng gitara.  Again, Hiyaw, as an indicator also points out to good sounding timbre.)




Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2015, 09:22:50 PM »
Good question, and IF YES, will it be experienced amplified or not?

In my experience, some amplifiers make hiyaw more prominent than others.  For example, modeling amps don't do as good a job as my tube amps.

Offline ios

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2015, 10:08:24 PM »
Just my thoughts:  Eh kung sinabi ko maaring marinig sa vinyl?  So is it a big deal now?  Its not.  Right?  What matter is that its there in your specific instrument when you are alone practicing, when you record, when you gig and most of all when you are about to decide which guitar to sell.
Believe it or not the first one's to notice hiyaw will be non guitarists kasi, when we gig live our attention is split between hearing our instrument and thinking about the next part to execute with our fingers. The others just hear the full sound of your guitar.

I agree on having a guitar with mojo to practice/gig with. But I'm sure you have experienced a love-hate relationship with your gear kahit may "hiyaw" pa yan. Some days we just prefer guitar A over B then the opposite happens the next day.

I don't agree with non-guitarist noticing hiyaw because i'm pretty sure they listen to the band as a whole rather than single out every instrument unless they all have sensitive ears like yours. Pero depende rin siguro sa gig kung mala G3 or Aristocrats yan na lutang talaga yung Instruments.

Peace!



Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2015, 10:32:04 PM »
I agree on having a guitar with mojo to practice/gig with. But I'm sure you have experienced a love-hate relationship with your gear kahit may "hiyaw" pa yan. Some days we just prefer guitar A over B then the opposite happens the next day.
(Just to add another dimension, for example Guitar A has hiyaw and B does not.  You will always prefer to use Guitar A.  Assuming Both Guitar A and B both have hiyaw then mas love hate and anything goes the next day.)

I don't agree with non-guitarist noticing hiyaw because i'm pretty sure they listen to the band as a whole rather than single out every instrument unless they all have sensitive ears like yours. Pero depende rin siguro sa gig kung mala G3 or Aristocrats yan na lutang talaga yung Instruments.

(Actually, do not underestimate the audience.  Just because they are not musicians does not mean their ears are not as sensitive or appreciative.  Magugulat ka na mas pansin nila ang guitar tone mo kaysa sa iyo.) 

Peace!

Offline farseer

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #113 on: August 05, 2015, 10:53:46 PM »
I agree that great guitar tone is universal... or it can be appreciated by the majority
But at a certain point it will become subjective or kanya kanya...
Case in point when our good friend Steve and Rouel visited me, I let them play 3 guitars.
A Somogyi Mod D, a Blazer and Henkes 12 fret 000-42, and a Kim Walker SJ... all of the guitars have spruce tops and rosewood back and sides (2 Brazilian rosewood and one African blackwood w/c is almost as valuable as Braz).
Steve picked the Walker as the best sounding...
Rouel chose the Blazer and Henkes... w/c is a pre war Martin replica.
My friend Dante thinks the Somogyi is the best probably because of the huge bass... and he thinks the Walker is nothing extra ordinary.
A lot of folks swear by their Somogyis, Olsons... but some people dont care about their tone lol.
Most of the guitars in the 5K up range are great sounding... it just depends whether you like it complex, fundamental, clear w/ good note separation, warm, big bass, thick trebles, note bloom, etc...
Aggressive flat pickers will always lean towards a stiffer, more strident and cleaner sound.
Finger style players will like it round, complex and sustaining...
Different strokes for different folks :)

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2015, 11:13:49 PM »
I agree that great guitar tone is universal... or it can be appreciated by the majority
But at a certain point it will become subjective or kanya kanya...
Case in point when our good friend Steve and Rouel visited me, I let them play 3 guitars.
A Somogyi Mod D, a Blazer and Henkes 12 fret 000-42, and a Kim Walker SJ... all of the guitars have spruce tops and rosewood back and sides (2 Brazilian rosewood and one African blackwood w/c is almost as valuable as Braz).
Steve picked the Walker as the best sounding...
Rouel chose the Blazer and Henkes... w/c is a pre war Martin replica.
My friend Dante thinks the Somogyi is the best probably because of the huge bass... and he thinks the Walker is nothing extra ordinary.
A lot of folks swear by their Somogyis, Olsons... but some people dont care about their tone lol.
Most of the guitars in the 5K up range are great sounding... it just depends whether you like it complex, fundamental, clear w/ good note separation, warm, big bass, thick trebles, note bloom, etc...
Aggressive flat pickers will always lean towards a stiffer, more strident and cleaner sound.
Finger style players will like it round, complex and sustaining...
Different strokes for different folks :)

It is true specially for a minimum threshold.  I mean people will universally accept the truth that those 3 guitars will sound better than an RJ acoustic kasi may minimum threshold to good timbre/tone that the 3 guitars meet.  There maybe an exceptional person who will say that the RJ acoustic is better but the majority will say otherwise.

Offline kaloyski

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #115 on: August 06, 2015, 07:45:16 AM »
Kayloyski, here is my reply.  I do not intend to insult you with my answer.  Just take it as is.  Its like Kobe Beef.  I can show you all the pics and the history of Kobe Beef, etc. But there is no equivalent of tasting it.  And let me tell you words are not enough to describe how it tastes.

Alright. Seems quite fair to me. Another point though--we are in a third world country and we don't have much access to a lot of gears, especially high end stuff. So you really can't blame them if their beliefs are different. Lastly, the way I see it, people are having a hard time grasping the concept of "hiyaw" maybe because of how you put down others (gears, guitar techs, etc.) just because you believe what you have is superior. Try not to be condescending on your posts and maybe that might change a little of the people's perspective.

I rest my case. Gonna grab some more popcorn for this thread.  :-D   

Offline j-sonic

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #116 on: August 06, 2015, 07:57:11 AM »
I already pointed it out na third world country lang ang Pinas so madami talaga na ang opinions at points of view ay pang third world din.

A lot of people are really not interested in other points of view besides those that they see inside their rectums. Hindi lang yan applicable sa mga gitarista,but in all walks of life.

Madami talaga ang hindi afford ang mamahaling instrumento,and sometimes it colors their views. Buuthurt sila against those who can afford,not only against Mr Firemodel,who makes himself a big target because of his unbending and outspoken ways,but against people who are more affluent than they are. Apparent din yan di lang sa guitar playing community.

Hindi ito generalization,hindi lahat ay ganoon. Pero madami talaga ang inggitero,gitarista man o hindi.
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Offline royc

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #117 on: August 06, 2015, 08:36:24 AM »
I already pointed it out na third world country lang ang Pinas so madami talaga na ang opinions at points of view ay pang third world din.

A lot of people are really not interested in other points of view besides those that they see inside their rectums. Hindi lang yan applicable sa mga gitarista,but in all walks of life.

Madami talaga ang hindi afford ang mamahaling instrumento,and sometimes it colors their views. Buuthurt sila against those who can afford,not only against Mr Firemodel,who makes himself a big target because of his unbending and outspoken ways,but against people who are more affluent than they are. Apparent din yan di lang sa guitar playing community.

Hindi ito generalization,hindi lahat ay ganoon. Pero madami talaga ang inggitero,gitarista man o hindi.

That is an assumption devoid of supporting facts. People react not because they cannot afford expensive gears, but because of how some opinions stated are quite offensive. There are ways to spread your opinion without offending your readers.
There are also people who can afford expensive gears, but chose not to because they have other financial priorities. Do not expect a family man to buy expensive gears instead of spending for his family. Do not expect a working musician to spend hundreds of thousands while receiving a few hundred each gig.

Lastly, there is no third world point of view in this forum. The internet has broken geographical barriers and our views are no different from first world opinions. Those who really belong to the third world would not have the means to read this post and respond to it.



« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:15:58 AM by royc »

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2015, 09:14:23 AM »
Kayloyski, here is my reply.  I do not intend to insult you with my answer.  Just take it as is.  Its like Kobe Beef.  I can show you all the pics and the history of Kobe Beef, etc. But there is no equivalent of tasting it.  And let me tell you words are not enough to describe how it tastes.

I agree with this analogy.

And if hiyaw is only felt by the player, and certain equipment can enhance, be transparent with, or decrease hiyaw, I can liken it still to food. Certain ingredients in haute cuisine have certain aspects that only the chef can appreciate such as the ease of which you can cut something, how it reacts to heat, how long it keeps its texture given a certain cooking method etc.

So again, I do not, and in no way can I claim whether or not hiyaw exists. Just like I can't prove that pork bun hiyaw exists because I haven't had one from Tim Ho Wan, I can't say firemodel's concept of hiyaw exists because I have never played any of his guitars (or Arie's for that matter).

Yes, hiyaw is an "elitist" concept. There should be no argument there. Just like how haute cuisine is the realm of chefs and rich people, ordinary people cannot appreciate Kobe beef until they can afford it, and eat it properly done by a chef. And even then, most of them will deny that kobe beef is any different from P99 per kilo fresh-frozen beef in the supermarket because they just don't have the facility to discern it. On the other hand, to accommodate the idea that even subpar-condition guitars may posses hiyaw, again it's just like your grandma's home cooking. Most people will say it's good but only a chef can really say if it has hiyaw or not because it's his job to know the flavors and textures most people miss out on.

This is why I'm puzzled by this whole argument. Iba naman yung working man's guitar sa tone guitar, so dapat hindi na argument yung "di naman afford ng karamihan yan sa Pinas" (lalo na sa boutique) dahil personal yung paghanap ng ultimate tone (and there will always be a guitar with better tone than what you have now). Di ko rin gets yung kailangan i-prove na nag-eexist yung hiyaw. Hiyaw is simply a name for the concept of superior quality. Of course superior quality is universal; it exists, but whether or not you believe in it is really up to you, if you can sense it or not. It's not your fault if you can't sense it, as long as you've actually tried guitars that claim to have hiyaw.

Again, I'm not saying na may hiyaw. I just can't say yet. Pumunta na lang kasi kayo sa crib ni firemodel para tapos na.
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Offline royc

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2015, 09:25:59 AM »
Di ko rin gets yung kailangan i-prove na nag-eexist yung hiyaw.

I believe that most of the question here, mine included, is not about proving that hiyaw exists, but asking for an explanation on what it is exactly. Those who support hiyaw cannot seem to agree on what it is, based on what I have read in this post. It is like an abstract painting being interpreted by two persons, both saying it is beautiful, but interpreting it differently.

I do not agree that food is a good analogy. We use our sense of taste to judge food. On the other hand, a guitar is an instrument to create music. Music is appreciated by our sense of hearing. Music can be recorded. You cannot record taste.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 10:00:20 AM by royc »

Offline farseer

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #120 on: August 06, 2015, 09:53:28 AM »
I think Hiyaw is like "note bloom".
My all time favorite builder has an article on this... please see link
http://www.esomogyi.com/tonal_bloom.pdf


Offline j-sonic

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #121 on: August 06, 2015, 09:54:16 AM »
Royc,do you believe the Philippines is not a third world country? Or you just deny it?

Gear not gears.

Granted some people cannot afford expensive gear,but it doesn't disprove the existence of hiyaw or whatever English term it is.

My point is,maraming dissenters na naiinggit lang dahil can't afford and I didn't say EVERYBODY.
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Offline sonicassault

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #122 on: August 06, 2015, 09:58:21 AM »
I believe that most of the question here, mine included, is not about proving that hiyaw exists, but asking for an explanation on what it is exactly. Those who support hiyaw cannot seem to agree on what it is, based on what I have read in this post. It is like an abstract painting being interpreted by two persons, both saying it is beautiful, but interpreting it differently.

I do not agree that food is a good analogy. We use our sense of taste to judge food. On the other hand, a guitar is an instrument to create music. Music is appreciated by our sense of hearing. Music can be recorded. You cannot record taste.

You cannot record taste, yes, but it can be recreated consistently by a good chef. With recording however, and this is independent of the hiyaw issue, it is not a facsimile, however way you put it. You can only recreate the almost exact sound of something in a sound laboratory, which is ultra dead, and of course at the expense of overtones and other reverberations. If you've ever talked to a recording engineer, you will know that a half inch movement of a microphone can change a recorded sound drastically. That is why in the drumming world, where cymbals are usually chosen by their acoustic, unmiked properties, we tell buyers to always check them out in an ideal room with their preferred sticks. Likewise if hiyaw did exist, definitely it wont get into the recording.

I used food as an analogy because like fine instruments, it has a certain quality that makes them better than the rest but you can never really point out what the hell it is (just like the hiyaw issue). Parang yung pandesal sa kanto samin, pare-pareho lang naman ang recipe ng non-sweet pandesal, pero may ibang sarap yung pandesal nila, using the same ingredients and methods (I asked, it's the normal TESDA recipe).

Yung hiyaw na issue na to feeling ko parang Stradivarius to eh. People claim that the Stradivari instruments have this quality that cannot be pointed out (like food, my preferred analogy). Violin construction is not wildly different, and tone woods in that era aren't chosen as precisely as we do now with fine measurements of density, grain, etc. So it can be said that any improvement in tonewood or construction is not exceptionally different, and yet it has a hiyaw-like reputation. But then several double blind tests have revealed that one cannot distinguish Stradivari from violins of different vintages.

I think a double blind test is in order, of course kasama si firemodel, another person who believes in hiyaw, a professional electric guitarist, and a professional electric guitarist who is also a tone geek. All guitars (hopefully the same shape) should be set up to what FM55 thinks is the closest it can get to best, then all four play the guitars with the exact same amp, cable, and room. then all will test the guitars blind, and 1. say if the guitar is the hiyaw-claiming guitar, and 2. if they think they can't tell.

EB na to!  :lol:
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Offline farseer

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2015, 10:03:28 AM »
It is true specially for a minimum threshold.  I mean people will universally accept the truth that those 3 guitars will sound better than an RJ acoustic kasi may minimum threshold to good timbre/tone that the 3 guitars meet.  There maybe an exceptional person who will say that the RJ acoustic is better but the majority will say otherwise.

It will be hard for an RJ acoustic to compete...
But lets say some will like a very affordable Martin D-18 vs those 3 guitars costing 15-20 times more.
The Somogyis are overtone laden, some will like the more fundamental sound of the very ordinary Martin D-18 better.
Some guitars excel for finger style, others for flat picking, etc etc.... I havent seen a guitar to do it all...
Complexity is the bane of someone looking for a clean sound, they might find the guitar too busy...
I used to look for a big rambling bass to say the acoustic is nice, most of my friends still do... but now, I appreciate the fat trebles more... and when Im buying I look for that rather than the big bass I used to go for.


Offline farseer

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Re: Great Guitar Tone and why it is Universal and NOT kanya kanya lang
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2015, 10:14:31 AM »
Royc,do you believe the Philippines is not a third world country? Or you just deny it?

Gear not gears.

Granted some people cannot afford expensive gear,but it doesn't disprove the existence of hiyaw or whatever English term it is.

My point is,maraming dissenters na naiinggit lang dahil can't afford and I didn't say EVERYBODY.

Even if we are 3rd world.  We do have a lot of nice gear now, especially electric guitars and boutique amps... thanks to Miks, Alex, Steve, Beng, Esse... pati si Tedi
I remember 10 years ago, when PRS guitars were rare and expensive... now there are a lot of JGs, Bakers, Yarons, Gibson custom shop historics.. hindi na napapansin ang prs.
How I wish may kalaro din sana ako sa acoustic lol...