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Author Topic: Is it my ears, or my brain?  (Read 9300 times)

Offline xjepoyx

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2007, 09:48:52 PM »
nice one! very detailed information! BOW parekoy ako sayo!
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Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2007, 09:49:28 PM »
Ika nga:

"Mastering cannot fix a bad mix."
"Mixing cannot fix bad tracking."
"Great tracking equipment cannot fix a bad performer."

In audio, everything has to be RIGHT.  But GRANTING you did a good job at mixing and tracking, why do you need to have your stuff mastered?  It is because a Mastering House is like an overseer, which tries to make your mixes sound best on ALL listening environments.  It's like a one size fits all approach.  With minimal to no dedicated mastering equipment, you will always have problems in enhancing a mix.

Case in point:  Gateway Mastering.  They accept anything as lowly as 16-BIT 44.1KHz, to high quality DSD formats.  As for analog, they can go for 1/4", 1/2" and 1" formats. So how can they remaster something with inherently low headroom (say a 1991 recording on ADAT)?  They always need to bring things out of the digital domain and use outboard processors, before they slap them back to digital. 

Anyway, I never can argue with Bob Ludwig if he says he cannot do anything to enhance say, a mix by Urbandub. The tracking was so atrocious, so he cannot do anything except cut some boom in the mastering stage...
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 09:50:30 PM by skunkyfunk »

Offline BALDO

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2007, 11:42:03 PM »
Abbys.. no i think the mic, the UAD and an LA 2A will be just fine for me..NO MORE GAS.. yan ang mantra ko NO MORE GAS.. hehehehe for the whole year i guess  :-D
Music is art in sound...

Offline starfugger

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2007, 11:48:02 PM »
Abbys.. no i think the mic, the UAD and an LA 2A will be just fine for me..NO MORE GAS.. yan ang mantra ko NO MORE GAS.. hehehehe for the whole year i guess  :-D

ooooowwwwwssss?  :-D ahehe.
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Offline BALDO

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2007, 11:58:08 PM »
OO HAZEL PWAMIS hehehehe  :-D
ps this year lang naman hehehe  8-)
Music is art in sound...


Offline xjepoyx

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2007, 12:02:16 AM »
sus czar! ikaw nga GAS KING ng Pro Audio Thread eh! hehehe kaw pa mapipigilan mong mag GAS! hehehe
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Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2007, 12:02:44 AM »
Ika nga:

"Mastering cannot fix a bad mix."
"Mixing cannot fix bad tracking."
"Great tracking equipment cannot fix a bad performer."

In audio, everything has to be RIGHT.  But GRANTING you did a good job at mixing and tracking, why do you need to have your stuff mastered?  It is because a Mastering House is like an overseer, which tries to make your mixes sound best on ALL listening environments.  It's like a one size fits all approach.  With minimal to no dedicated mastering equipment, you will always have problems in enhancing a mix.

Case in point:  Gateway Mastering.  They accept anything as lowly as 16-BIT 44.1KHz, to high quality DSD formats.  As for analog, they can go for 1/4", 1/2" and 1" formats. So how can they remaster something with inherently low headroom (say a 1991 recording on ADAT)?  They always need to bring things out of the digital domain and use outboard processors, before they slap them back to digital. 

Anyway, I never can argue with Bob Ludwig if he says he cannot do anything to enhance say, a mix by Urbandub. The tracking was so atrocious, so he cannot do anything except cut some boom in the mastering stage...

aha! good set of questions. let me get started with why people need to get things mastered. mastering is like the topping on a cake, the packaging on a product, the post-production on a movie; mastering is the finalization of everything you've done in a mix short of normalizing everything. mastering is not simply overseeing everything in a set of songs and bringing them louder - no - mastering involves polishing those odds and ends that you may not have detected in the mixing environment. A mastering suite, if you've ever been in one, does not have very much stuff in it and this serves a specific purpose. A lot of what you pay mastering engineers go toward two things: their ears and the environment they mix your song in. The actual room you have songs mastered in are tuned differently than recording suites and this particularly emphasizes the accurate representation of the mix. Period.

Why do you have to have your mix mastered? Well, you don't really have to. But think of it this way, every artist wants people to look at their records a certain way; they want their work to be contextualized to other works of other artists, preferrably good ones. Mastering levels the playing field, so to speak, for records and gives songs that sheen and push that mixing does not provide.

Now as far as gateway mastering goes, most mastering houses accept a variety of formats. However, it is often a good (and standard) rule of thumb to submit a master with as much fidelity and information as you can provide so the mastering engineer has enough material and information in your digitized media to work with during the sessions. This argument of bitrates has been waged for a long time but here is the fact of the matter: a 16 bit 44.1khz mixdown file is NOT lowly, in fact, it is the standard bitrate of your lowly compact disk. The reason why most people mix down to a higher bitrate - pre-mastering - is because higher bitrates and sample rates have more information in them compared to material that has been comprehensively mixed at 16 bit 44.1khz. This is fact and something every recording rat will tell you outright whether you say you hear the difference or not. Again, it is in your best interest to record and mix at a higher bit rate because you are providing the mastering house with more "stuff" (data) in your song than they might need for the final mixdown. You can mixdown at your place or the mastering house will do it for you, eitherway, it is a good idea to have too much data than too little in this situation. Remember, an AD converter converts AVAILABLE information; it can't convert what isn't there and fill in the blanks with "magic" bits of information.

ADAT is still a standard in most places and you'd be surprised how many recording places still mixdown to that media as a means of submitting their songs for mastering/ archiving. A lot of DJs still do it because it has a warmth and fidelity that translates well to vinyl pressing. I processed some old records from the Smithsonian of 1920s era jazz recordings for a local historical society and my mixdown was ADAT. Very nice. It helps that the media doesn't get surface scratches easily.

@jepoy and BALDO: yes, undisputed na GAS king itong si BALDO. Idol! Siguro ka na hindi ka u-utot in the next few months?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 12:04:32 AM by abyssinianson »
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Offline optiplex

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2007, 08:30:04 AM »
Call Angee Rozul or Aileen Francisco.  Depends on what you like - whether compressed or not, brickwall or not, whatever.

FWIW

Sir,

Just for clarification, a compressed brickwalled mastered product is purely a business decision. I have to ask this because the track i posted in the previous thread is engineered, mixed and mastered by Angee Rasul.  If the client (band/producers) wants a loud mix then the mastering engineer is not really to blame.

It is so frustating to realize that loudness wars will continue. It will take a lot of effort to educate the bands/producers,the public that you can make the sound louder just by using the volume control.   

Well I will just to download some mp3s from the net of my favorite band, check if the sound is decent then get the legit CD. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 08:37:07 AM by optiplex »

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2007, 08:40:30 AM »

Well I will just to download some mp3s from the net of my favorite band, check if the sound is decent then get the legit CD. 


Listening to songs from your favorite bands is as easy as going to their website and checking out their "media" sections. Even MySpace and Pure Volume has places for your to listen to your favorite artists. Don't feed the piracy machine. Better yet, don't mention that you support piracy by posting it on a forum. Its a helluva way to flag yourself and get into trouble. Your IP address shows, you know.
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Offline optiplex

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2007, 09:01:32 AM »

Listening to songs from your favorite bands is as easy as going to their website and checking out their "media" sections. Even MySpace and Pure Volume has places for your to listen to your favorite artists.

Thanks for the tip, I will go this way. If I can't find the "samples", then just don't buy the CD.

I am more of an audiophile, I will never settle for an mp3. My plan was use it a sample, but I will heed your advice, I am aware that piracy will kill my hobby.

Thanks... See what a frustated fan will do.:)   

Offline starfugger

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2007, 09:13:00 AM »
the current trend now in mastering is the use of stems.  in a way, the mastering engineer has the ability to remix the song if he wanted, albeit on a smaller scale.

@baldo and abyss ... i am a firm believer in UAD products.  they rock.  -- amen? amen!!! amen? amen!!!  all u need to do, BALDO, is LISTEN and you will be a convert too.  amen? amen!!!  :-D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 09:14:20 AM by starfugger »
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Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2007, 10:21:57 AM »
the current trend now in mastering is the use of stems.  in a way, the mastering engineer has the ability to remix the song if he wanted, albeit on a smaller scale.

@baldo and abyss ... i am a firm believer in UAD products.  they rock.  -- amen? amen!!! amen? amen!!!  all u need to do, BALDO, is LISTEN and you will be a convert too.  amen? amen!!!  :-D

Hahaha! See! She is a UAD fan!

@optiplex: yeah, it is sad that the music industry has gotten this far but there are a lot of things you need to know about to stay out of the law's way. being charged with piracy is not a small thing and costs a ton to legally get taken care of.
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Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2007, 10:46:18 AM »
the current trend now in mastering is the use of stems.  in a way, the mastering engineer has the ability to remix the song if he wanted, albeit on a smaller scale.

@baldo and abyss ... i am a firm believer in UAD products.  they rock.  -- amen? amen!!! amen? amen!!!  all u need to do, BALDO, is LISTEN and you will be a convert too.  amen? amen!!!  :-D

While stems seem ok, how do you group your stems?  IMO, I want to group 'em this way:

(All in stereo)
KICK
SNARE
TOMS
OVERHEADS
ELECTRIC GUITAR RHYTHM
ELECTRIC GUITAR LEAD
ACOUSTIC GUITAR (if any)
BASS
LEAD VOCALS
BACK VOCALS
KEYBOARDS
(All are stereo bounces)

What I noticed is that the kick should really be exaggerated before the mastering process.  The snare needs more low mids than normal.  For electric guitars a little wide Q around 400Hz and 1.2KHz helps make the electric guitars more defined in the mix.

Offline starfugger

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2007, 12:24:56 PM »
the current trend now in mastering is the use of stems.  in a way, the mastering engineer has the ability to remix the song if he wanted, albeit on a smaller scale.

@baldo and abyss ... i am a firm believer in UAD products.  they rock.  -- amen? amen!!! amen? amen!!!  all u need to do, BALDO, is LISTEN and you will be a convert too.  amen? amen!!!  :-D

While stems seem ok, how do you group your stems?  IMO, I want to group 'em this way:

(All in stereo)
KICK
SNARE
TOMS
OVERHEADS
ELECTRIC GUITAR RHYTHM
ELECTRIC GUITAR LEAD
ACOUSTIC GUITAR (if any)
BASS
LEAD VOCALS
BACK VOCALS
KEYBOARDS
(All are stereo bounces)

What I noticed is that the kick should really be exaggerated before the mastering process.  The snare needs more low mids than normal.  For electric guitars a little wide Q around 400Hz and 1.2KHz helps make the electric guitars more defined in the mix.


'ey nice one skunk.  id pretty much do it the same way :)

@ abyss, i haven't heard the new neve plugs tho.  if u have id appreciate a quick review :)  people are raving about them, but for some reason id  probably get the PMB first over the neves.  the PMB is quite effective, and very gentle too.  Or is the graphics interface just fooling my perception?  :)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 12:32:01 PM by starfugger »
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Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Is it my ears, or my brain?
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2007, 02:09:42 PM »
@hazel: IMO, the PMB has a wider variety of applications whereas the Neve EQ set is more specialized and caters to that vintage, analogue, fat quality that many people who have worked analog consoles love. A lot of people have took such a liking to the Neve plugs that they usually run them in busses to take advantage of the warmth that Neve plugs are known for. I haven't seen this much of a positive response to a UAD compressor plug since the Pultec and Fairchild came out that people were running these things in multiple instances. I particularly love the Neve on acoustic guitars, vocals and anything that may be used in an ünplugged" setting.

With the PMB, you can do a lot of specific EQing to sculpt, enhance and project particular parts of your mix. The PMB is a mainstay in a lot of mastering processes and a lot of the fellas and gals on the UAD board swear by ém for mixing projects and mastering purposes. I would say that the Neve's are geared more towards mixing purposes while the PMB leans more towards the post-production end to add that final sparkle to your mixes.
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