Gibson Pick-up kaya 'to?

[Zoran]

I found this pick-up in my gig bag which I used more than 15 years ago...one of my bandmates then said that this might be a Gibson pick-up.
The Patent No. says "2,737,842" and I measured the end to end pole pieces' distance (center to center) to be 49.5mm.

Can anyone identify if this is a Gibson pick-up?

[bgarcia]

Oo gibson yan.  From the 70s to 80s.

[mahavishnu]

Gibson seemed to be in no hurry to apply the patent number to their pickups even after the patent was granted in the USA. And when they did finally get around to showing the patent number on the sticker underneath the pickup, they quoted the wrong number! Gibson humberbucker with patent number 2,737,842 - the wrong numberEven in 1962 a Gibson humbucker with patent number sticker bore the number 2,737,842. The correct patent number for the Seth Lover designed humbucking pickup was in fact 2,896,491. The number shown on the pickup is actually a patent for a Gibson bridge, not a pickup at all. It might be deduced from this that Gibson were not about to help the competition to copy their pickup design by telling them which patent to go and look up at the US Patent Office!

Even after getting the patent (U.S. Patent 2,896,491 ), Gibson printed the wrong number on some PAF stickers: most humbuckers were labelled with U.S. Patent 2,737,842 until 1962. The number shown on the pickup is actually a patent for a Gibson trapeze tailpiece bridge, not a pickup at all. Both true PAFs and incorrect patent marked PAFs are fairly rare today and make an expensive vintage collectors' item.

Seth Lover received his approved pickup patent, #2,896,491, on July 28, 1959. By late 1962, Gibson changed the decal to read, "PATENT NO 2,737,842". It is interesting to note that the patent number listed on the decal was not for the pickup design, but for Les Paul's trapeze tailpiece. One can assume Gibson was creating a research roadblock for the competition. Or, was it simply a typo? The competition idea seems more credible, but silly, as these new decals appeared 7 years after the pickups were first installed on Gibson's instruments.

hmm so that patent is actually for the bridge huh

[wrathster]

Oo gibson yan.  From the 70s to 80s.

I concur. ganyan pickup nung LP ko.

[Zoran]

Oo gibson yan.  From the 70s to 80s.

I concur. ganyan pickup nung LP ko.

Additional info...naka punch yung Patent No. nya, instead of a decal...

[mau_stratman]

benta mo to bro?

[Zoran]

benta mo to bro?

...bibilhin mo? 

[mau_stratman]

pa PM presyo

[qwi]

ayus yan. musta kaya tunog? working pa kaya?

[ARCEE]

It is a Gibson PAF. Can you check the value of the DC resistance? It fetches quite a price today although this type of humbucker  is very inconsistent when it comes to the quality of sound produced. The reason is because Gibson used whatever material was available at that time. So some PAF used alnico5 while some used alnico2. They didn't know and care what type of material was used for the fillister head screw and the slugs. Some members of a pickup makers forum that I belong to have been trying to nail what makes a PAF humbucker but have been unsuccessful. And they have in the pickup making scene for quite a while now. Some as far back as the 70's.

I would assume though that #42 PE wire was used. Gibson was not also very particular when it came to the number of turns per coil. As Seth Lover once said, "We just wound them until the bobbins were full". While some PAFs had matched coils, others did not (though not so much).

The classic PAF tone? Listen to Duanne Allman. Some like it, some do not.

[blue buddha]

It's a Gibson, but most definitely NOT A PAF.

If you have a clearer, more focused pic of the bottom and the mounting legs, I could probably tell you what it is.

At best, it's a T-top from the 70's -- if it measures around 7.5k ohms, that's almost certainly what it is. T-tops followed PAF's and by the 70's were more consistent (unlike PAF's) in their resistance readings. A nice pickup with "close to a PAF" or "vintage" type sound.

At worst (subjectively lang of course), it's not a T-top and will veer toward the "hotter" side of things.

Only way to tell definitively is to remove the covers and look for the embossed "T" at the top of the bobbin. If youre not used to doing this, leave it to a pro -- you could ruin both the function and value of the pickup.

Hope this helps.

[Zoran]

It's a Gibson, but most definitely NOT A PAF.

If you have a clearer, more focused pic of the bottom and the mounting legs, I could probably tell you what it is.

At best, it's a T-top from the 70's -- if it measures around 7.5k ohms, that's almost certainly what it is. T-tops followed PAF's and by the 70's were more consistent (unlike PAF's) in their resistance readings. A nice pickup with "close to a PAF" or "vintage" type sound.

At worst (subjectively lang of course), it's not a T-top and will veer toward the "hotter" side of things.

Only way to tell definitively is to remove the covers and look for the embossed "T" at the top of the bobbin. If youre not used to doing this, leave it to a pro -- you could ruin both the function and value of the pickup.

Hope this helps.

I was pretty sure that it is not a PAF...kase nga me Patent Number na e...
I'll give an update on Monday (when I return to work) once I see what's inside...

[ARCEE]

It's a Gibson, but most definitely NOT A PAF.

If you have a clearer, more focused pic of the bottom and the mounting legs, I could probably tell you what it is.

At best, it's a T-top from the 70's -- if it measures around 7.5k ohms, that's almost certainly what it is. T-tops followed PAF's and by the 70's were more consistent (unlike PAF's) in their resistance readings. A nice pickup with "close to a PAF" or "vintage" type sound.

At worst (subjectively lang of course), it's not a T-top and will veer toward the "hotter" side of things.

You are absolutely right. It is not a PAF. What was I thinking? I just answered a question regarding Gibson PAFs and the thing must have stuck in my mind.
Only way to tell definitively is to remove the covers and look for the embossed "T" at the top of the bobbin. If youre not used to doing this, leave it to a pro -- you could ruin both the function and value of the pickup.

Hope this helps.

[Zoran]

Above are "leg shots" that I took this morning. The wiring insulation is braided.
Yes there is a "T" embossed on top of both bobbins. located just between the middle pole pieces.

(mau_stratman...bilhin mo na saken 'to...)

[blue buddha]

It's a Gibson, but most definitely NOT A PAF.

If you have a clearer, more focused pic of the bottom and the mounting legs, I could probably tell you what it is.

At best, it's a T-top from the 70's -- if it measures around 7.5k ohms, that's almost certainly what it is. T-tops followed PAF's and by the 70's were more consistent (unlike PAF's) in their resistance readings. A nice pickup with "close to a PAF" or "vintage" type sound.

At worst (subjectively lang of course), it's not a T-top and will veer toward the "hotter" side of things.

Only way to tell definitively is to remove the covers and look for the embossed "T" at the top of the bobbin. If youre not used to doing this, leave it to a pro -- you could ruin both the function and value of the pickup.

Hope this helps.

Above are "leg shots" that I took this morning. The wiring insulation is braided.
Yes there is a "T" embossed on top of both bobbins. located just between the middle pole pieces.

Z, malabo pa rin ang pics mo. But check this out -- if your bobbins look like this, it's a T-top. Note the "T" between the middle pole pieces:


Also, this is the bottom of a Patent No. T-top with a sticker -- the type that just immediately preceded your "stamped" T-top. The screwpoles on one bobbin have been removed hence the unfilled holes. Note the "L" shaped tooling marks/scratches made by the factory equipment when "bending" the leg into a right angle. This is very typical of PAF's, Pat. no. stickered T-tops, and Pat. no. stamped T-tops. Later models don't have this:


So in short, you have a T-top. Nice, PAF style sound -- lower output, warm bottom, clear mids, good highs. Not a hi-gain, hot pickup like its later cousins. Pair that with good "oldwood" and you'll be happy if vintage tone is your thing. Not so happy if you're a shredder, or play with a million-and-one pedals through a thirty-knobbed amp. 

[Zoran]

Z, malabo pa rin ang pics mo. But check this out -- if your bobbins look like this, it's a T-top. Note the "T" between the middle pole pieces:


Also, this is the bottom of a Patent No. T-top with a sticker -- the type that just immediately preceded your "stamped" T-top. The screwpoles on one bobbin have been removed hence the unfilled holes. Note the "L" shaped tooling marks/scratches made by the factory equipment when "bending" the leg into a right angle. This is very typical of PAF's, Pat. no. stickered T-tops, and Pat. no. stamped T-tops. Later models don't have this:


So in short, you have a T-top. Nice, PAF style sound -- lower output, warm bottom, clear mids, good highs. Not a hi-gain, hot pickup like its later cousins. Pair that with good "oldwood" and you'll be happy if vintage tone is your thing. Not so happy if you're a shredder, or play with a million-and-one pedals through a thirty-knobbed amp. 
[/quote]

I checked the legs on my pick-up and there seems to be no tooling mark/scratch, the bent part of the legs feels smooth.
I also noticed that the color of the pick-up base and legs is bronze, which is different from your pic.

[blue buddha]

The only possible conclusion is that you have a crossover/transition unit -- T-top bobbins, later type bottom plate. They're out there but in lesser numbers than the preceding or proceeding type. Not long after that, the T-top bobbins ran out and they went back to plain bobbins with those "bronzey", stamped bottom plates -- but those had moved away somewhat from the sound of the old PAF's.

[mau_stratman]

bro, nabuksan mo na yung pickup? ano itsura sa loob?

[Zoran]

bro, nabuksan mo na yung pickup? ano itsura sa loob?

Here's the inside pic >>>
Napakadume ng loob, more than 15 years (last gig ko is 1991 pa) na napatago e.

[blue buddha]

Can't even see a "T" there -- it's not in focus at all. Pull the camera further from the pickup, even if it appears smaller in the frame. Just so it's focused.

[Zoran]

Can't even see a "T" there -- it's not in focus at all. Pull the camera further from the pickup, even if it appears smaller in the frame. Just so it's focused.

I'll try to take another pic where it shows the "T"'s. They're located in between the 3rd and 4th poles, both on the inner side of the top of the bobbins. Magkatabe yung "T"'s.

[Zoran]

Here's a clearer inside pic of the pick-up.
Note that the "T"'s are head to head.

[Zoran]

Up muna bago umuwe...