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Author Topic: Re: Analog 101  (Read 60452 times)

Offline acidtest

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #150 on: August 23, 2007, 05:34:15 AM »
medyo mahaba nga, hehehe... got nothing to do for the last two days e.

sir voidmain,

thanks for the trouble of reading this. (hehehe) more questions now...

what are loopers? and how do they work?

if i understand correctly, they are a sort of bypass switches for the signal path. parang ung switch para lumiko ang mga train. so the signal would travel a different path when engaged. the idea is to use the quickest route to arrive at the destination or travel the route kung saan may sasakay or bababa or something like that. (hmmm... that analogy needs work...) if it is, then you are still using a single signal or train. its simple and direct. thats why it works so well. 
(i'm not sure about this. i'm just deducing from your diagram) (so pls confirm my theory. thanks!)

my idea (well it's not exactly mine. more on this later.) is a bit different. i borrowed the concept from signal routing from the soundtech point of view. the way the soundtech use aux send and return on the mixer. first the signal from the microphone is assigned to channel 1. leaving it alone like that would keep it dry and it would eventually go straight to the main output where a host of devices await it. (compressors, limiters, sonic maximizers, crossovers, eqs, blahblah, to main amp) quite similar to the pedalboard concept actually. but here you cant put time based modulations on the main mix. that microphone is not the only thing connected to the mixer. theres the drumset, bass guitar, triangle, maracas... you name it. now imagine, using cathedral type reverb on a double pedal using drummer/drumset, well, that it's not exactly a pretty picture... (there are applications of this concept on the pedal board. a few examples are given on earlier posts of this thread) thats where the aux busses come in. here you can send the mics signal to lets say aux1, where it gets modulated by a reverb device then maybe a limiter before returning it to the return socket. that alone is pretty good. but wait! there's more! you can even return the signal to a different channel (lets say channel 12) on the mixer. making your options go up exponentially. from this setup, you can control the gain, eq, pan, grouping, and fader of your fx signal. then you can send it again (if you want to) on a different aux bus for further processing. all this can be done without corrupting the original signal from your microphone. that is if you push channel 12's fader down, only the fx/wet signal would go away not the main signal itself. (the parallel concept i described on my previous post)

now. this is the system that i'm trying to recreate in the pedal board. (scaled down and with a twist of course) the extra output on the od/dist would play role of the psuedo aux bus, thus allowing me (in theory) to overcome (at least partially) the tonesuck epidemic guitar players keep complaining about. it would even overcome the boston dd100 (and other similar delay pedals) signal cut problem when switching off. 

on the pedal modification however, its already a made decision. i've been planning to visit sir BAMF for the longest time but something always comes up. (translation: wla pa akong pera) i keep buying something else lately. i paid him a visit once but he was out when i got there. i didnt make an appointment after all. i want my two dirt pedals modded for a different reason (upgrade/make it sound something else) first, but since i'm kind of lazy, (i dont go out much if its not a gig) and this 'concept' struck me, i prefer to get the most of everything everytime i go out of the house. another thing is, i almost always stick to what i buy. unless its really a total $h1t. (i got two gtx/boston dirt pedals and since i'm not into the heavy and high-gain stuff, i found a way for these two to work for me.) by getting it modded, i can further improve its role from acceptable into 'exceeds expectations' maybe even an 'outstanding'. combined with my 'concept' and fate willing, i may arrive into a tone uniquely my own. something most of us guitarplayers search for in our  lifetimes. and for the price of what? just like the equivalent of buying a popular brand everybody use? maybe even less...  (not all of us of course, a great number just wanna sound like thier idols or basically, somebody else...)

about the amp sim, well, thanks! that one i kinda missed on the equation. i got into the habit lately (in my multi before it broke down that is) of switching off the ampsim. i do this so that i can hear the distinct character of the amp i'm using,(letting it sing with it's own voice instead of making it conform to something it's not designed for) and for some reason it makes tweaking with the amps eq a lot easier. it never crossed my mind what would happen on the main mix though. the eq? i have other plans for that. i think i'll discuss that on later posts.(if ever) i'm still lingering on the 'backbone' of the concept anyway.
 
another thing, from my previous post, if there's a directbox, there's always an amp and there's always a main mixer. (at least on the venues i play) i think there might be some confusion there. the sansamp, if i'm not mistaken, has 3 outputs, one xlr wet, one 1/4' wet, and another 1/4' dry. it can function as the direct box. send the wet to the mixer, and the dry to the amp. its sort of redundunt to use a guitar ampsim on a good guitar amp does it? expensive though...

well almost everything on this post is still in the theoretical stage so if this thing fails, i think i'll just employ the looper system. no harm in dreaming of a better world once in a while...

by the way, how about that question on the reverb pedal from the earlier post? any info pls! thanks!!!

     ...and what does IMHO means?
               
parang ang haba na naman nito ah...


- Joyo AC tone demo

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feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline voidmain

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #151 on: August 23, 2007, 10:39:46 AM »
@acidtest

Yep haba uli.  :lol:

Loopers are actually just like aux send and returns.

In this case, pag naka-engage yung looper, dadaan yung signal sa TS-9 at CE-2. Pag hindi, diretso lang yung signal path.

But, you can opt not to use the return and rather directly connect it to another stompbox.
Ergo:
pedal > looper > pedals ... > dual input pedal > whatever
                        > pedals ... >

Kung ang plano mo is that maiiwan yung delay and to use it like you said, this setup would work. Not sure about the noise it will produce though. I'd ask sir Poundcake for any advice on using loopers as signal splitters. :-D

An added bonus to using a looper is that you get to have true bypass for all you pedals in the loop in one small toy. So with this small setup, wala ka nang problem with tone sucking due to signal degradation (did that make sense?).

Sample of a looper: http://www.robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=23

Ngayon, mahal na tong looper na to dahil #1 MIA, #2 Keeley. Merong gumagawa ng custom loopers for us na hindi kayang maka-bili nito. I think may binebenta si sir mahavishnu at kayang gawin to ni sir EJ. Anyway, hunt ka na lang ng pwedeng pagawan.

Medyo nalilito ako dun sa sinasabi mong pag may direct box, meron pa ring amp. Are you referring to the power amps which drive the monitors or the main speakers or are you referring to instrument amps? Personally, di ko rin gaanong gusto mag amp sim pag maganda naman yung amp. And pag maganda yung amp, mas preferred kong maglagay na lang ng mic sa harap niya para yung naririnig ko, yun ang lumalabas sa house. Kaso syempre, depende na po sa iyo yun kung mas trip nyo pa rin ng direct to house. Kung gusto nyo pa rin ng direct to house without the amp sim ruining the sound of the amp, suggestion ko na lang po use either a dual-output pedal as the last in the chain tapos connect one to the amp sim > DI and one to the amp. If not po, another looper na lang.

As for the sansamp... yung tri a.c. po is actually a programmable amp simulator. May isa siyang input at isang output. Hindi siya meant to be used as a DI box, though pwede rin. I still connected it to a DI nung ginawa ko to e. Kung yung sansamp naman na DI I think 2 outputs lang siya. 1 XLR and 1 PL. Not sure though.

With regards po dun sa reverb ng boston, di ko pa nasusubukan e. So I really can't give recommendations.

Ang IMHO po ay "in my humble opinion."

Phew... haba nun a.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20

Offline acidtest

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #152 on: August 23, 2007, 12:37:12 PM »
thanks!!!
and yes it made sense. the info is quite helpful and gave me a new idea. i'll ponder with this for a while before i post.

thanks again!

(nagkalituhan lang tayo dun sa directbox. but now i think we're saying the same thing)
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline voidmain

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #153 on: August 23, 2007, 11:40:40 PM »
No prob bro. :-D
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20

Offline xelalien

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #154 on: August 26, 2007, 09:24:19 PM »
wanna ask: where to put a Limiter pedal in a chain?


Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #155 on: August 29, 2007, 04:45:10 PM »
hi!  this is my first post in this forum.  btw, thumbs up to all of the people who posted here, especially to those who share their extensive knowledge on effects.  8-)  i hope you guys can help me out on this subject.

i'm an acoustic guitar player and my current gadget is the Zoom 504II Acoustic.  this is my first and only gadget thus far and it has served me relatively well in my gigs, except for times when the sound guy can't get his mixing right. 

some of my friends are recommending the new Zoom A2 with the pedal (the green one).  however, i think i want to try my luck on using analog effects. 

QUESTION:  what is the best combination of best analog effects for acoustic guitars?

Thanks and more power!

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Offline progressive_pilipinas

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #156 on: August 31, 2007, 02:23:29 AM »
im looking at two distortion pedals now..

A tonebone trimode and a tone bone plexitube?


which one can i use for heavy metal? any suggestions? or kung may iba pa kayong massusuggest pkaipost. thanks!

@ max_musikero

get a reverb pedal then an equalizer.. i think thats all you might need. Or a chorus pedal if you want.
The fretboard is a vast universe.

Offline fraudulentzodiac

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #157 on: August 31, 2007, 09:41:49 AM »
im looking at two distortion pedals now..

A tonebone trimode and a tone bone plexitube?


which one can i use for heavy metal? any suggestions? or kung may iba pa kayong massusuggest pkaipost. thanks!

@ max_musikero

get a reverb pedal then an equalizer.. i think thats all you might need. Or a chorus pedal if you want.
between the two, get the plexitube dude. I think the trimode is patterned after the classic and the plexitube after the hot brit hehe.

Offline voidmain

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #158 on: August 31, 2007, 11:43:37 AM »
@maxi_musikero
I use my Boss AC-2 on our church's acoustic guitar. Basically, ginagamit ko siya to simulate other guitar models. Kung may idadagdag pa ko, that would be a reverb, delay and EQ pedal. Basically, overkill na yung delay, kaso minsan masayang paglaruan yung delay ng may kasabay na other rhythm or acoustic guitars. In other words, kung more than one acoustic guitar kayo, i-on mo yung delay and do ambient rhythm. Works great for me.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20

Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #159 on: September 01, 2007, 11:37:43 AM »
@progressive_pilipinas ,@voidmain

thanks for the advice bros.  i'm going to try out those pedals during the weekend.  8-)

@voidmain, is it ok to use the AC-2/AC-3 on an acoustic?  kasi yung mga online demos use electric guitars.  will there be any difference in sound quality if i use an acoustic?

i'm thinking of adding a BF-2/BF-3 and AW-3  and  on my list.  just to add more flavor.  do u think a flange will work good on an acoustic?  i've already tried a wah since my 504II has one and i find it handy in some songs.  i'm also planning to add an octave pedal.  any comments or violent reactions? hehehe.. 8-)

thanks and more power!
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Offline dullFingers

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #160 on: September 01, 2007, 02:12:55 PM »
here's my set up (pasensya na kung mali routing ko  :-D)

wah- cs3 - uber metal- mz2 - mt2 - ge7 - ns2 - ph3 - bf3 - tr2 - rv3 - dd3

baka meron kau pede suggest na mas magandang routing mga sir. tnx! :mrgreen:

explore ko pa pag gamit ng looper.. pede ba ls2?  :-) maraming salamat




Offline voidmain

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #161 on: September 01, 2007, 10:19:24 PM »
@maxi_musikero
Yep. I can shape the sound coming out of our church's guitar with it. Kaso di ko pa nasusubukan yung AC-3. Di ako maka-comment kasi yung AC-2 analog at yung AC-3 digital e. Ginagamit ko yung peizo/standard tapos tinitimpla ko na lang depende sa kailangan ng kanta. Kaso syempre, depende pa rin yun sa gitara at pandinig mo. Lately nga lang, di ko na nagagawa to kasi bagay yung single coils ng guitar ko dun sa AC-2 e.

As for the flange, di ko sure bro. Kasi personally, medyo overkill na for me yung flanger e. Kaso syempre, kung ano pa man trip mo. Sa octave, gusto kong subukan yan. OC-2 lang tapos may acoustic bass na ko... sana lang wala siyang breakup.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20

Offline progressive_pilipinas

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #162 on: September 01, 2007, 10:47:11 PM »
here's my set up (pasensya na kung mali routing ko  :-D)

wah- cs3 - uber metal- mz2 - mt2 - ge7 - ns2 - ph3 - bf3 - tr2 - rv3 - dd3

baka meron kau pede suggest na mas magandang routing mga sir. tnx! :mrgreen:

explore ko pa pag gamit ng looper.. pede ba ls2?  :-) maraming salamat




wow! hehe

wah - cs3 - a/b -    line a - uber metal - ge-7 - rv3 - a/b/y   -   both to amp
                            line b - ph3 - bf3 - tr2 - dd3 -  a/b/y

bale ang nasa isip ko eh clean tone yung nasa line b. hehe.. explore ka nalng..
 

tinanggal ko yung mz2 at mt2. hehe


« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 01:36:42 AM by progressive_pilipinas »
The fretboard is a vast universe.

Offline voidmain

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #163 on: September 02, 2007, 07:27:11 AM »
@dullfingers
Ayus lang LS-2 bro, kaso mas gusto ko na naka-true bypass e. So suggestion ko po. Kumuha ka ng true-bypass loopers (pagawa ka kay EJ or whomever). Baka maka-mura ka pa. Anyway, suggested routing po:

Wah > CS-3 > Looper 1 (Uber Metal > MZ-2 > MT-2) > Looper 2 (PH-3 > BF-3 > TR-2) > Looper 3 (RV-3 > DD-3)

At least dito, wala kang signal degradation at madaling i-on-off yung dirt at modulations. Kaso bro, personally, di ko type yung NS-2 e. Tsaka medyo overkill ata ang 3 high gain pedals so tulad ng sinuggest ni sir progressive_pilipinas, tanggalin mo na lang yun MT-2 at MZ-2. Kaso syempre po kung ano pa man trip mo. :-D

Hmmm... nakaka-tuwa mag-suggest ng routings a  :lol:
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20

Offline dullFingers

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #164 on: September 02, 2007, 10:04:12 AM »
maraming salamat sir voidmain at progressive pilipinas. :-) subukan ko po mga suggestions nyo.

parang gusto ko pa-mod ung mt2 ko para maging all boss set up na. at kelangan ko din ng chorus at parang gusto ko din ng sd2. i used to play a lot of metal stuff kaya napa-dami high gain pedals. hehe buti na lang nabenta ko na hm3 at ds2 ko  :lol:

@ voidmain -- hindi ko po kilala si EJ hehe san pwede pagawa ng loopers?

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #165 on: September 02, 2007, 10:08:26 AM »
digital yung AC-3. hehehe...
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Offline Jem-Jr.™

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #166 on: September 02, 2007, 11:22:59 AM »
mga sir tanong ko lng bout sa A/B switching.. kapag tinapakan ba sya sabay sabay   mag on lahat ng pedal dun sa A or B?.. tnx :-D
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Offline andrew_O_O

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #167 on: September 02, 2007, 02:34:26 PM »
mga sir tanong ko lng bout sa A/B switching.. kapag tinapakan ba sya sabay sabay   mag on lahat ng pedal dun sa A or B?.. tnx :-D

pagkalam ko naka on na yung mga pedals....tapos if u press the switch...dun lang dadaan yung direction ng signal....

parang i would compare it to switching tracks on a train railroad.

Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #168 on: September 03, 2007, 08:30:17 AM »
@voidmain, thanks sa advice!  ndi ko alam na digital pala ang ac-3.  kala ko lahat ng boss stomp boxes analog.  hehe!   8-)

i visited perfect pitch-parksquare kahapon and tried out some of the stomp boxes.  i tried out the ac-3, ch-1 super chorus, and ung digital reverb.  ndi daw kc available yung iba.  personally, nagandahan ako sa tunog nila.  maybe because 1st time ko tlga mag-try out ng analog efx.  hehe!   8-)

pero the best ung digital reverb.  i'm thinking kung yun ang uunahin ko eh.  pero do you think kailngan ko pa ng acoustic sim kung acoustic naman gitara ko to begin with?  iniisip ko kc na reverb and chorus nalang muna unahin ko.  mahal kc eh. hehe!  :lol:
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Offline voidmain

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #169 on: September 03, 2007, 09:42:12 AM »
@maxi_musikero
Ikaw bro. Personal preferrence ko lang yun. Mas gusto ko kasing maraming choices when it comes sa tone ng guitars ko.

Ayus na yung reverb actually. Tsaka tama lang na onti-onti ang pag-collect ng pedals. Magastos talaga e.
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20

Offline awitee

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Re: Analog 101
« Reply #170 on: September 03, 2007, 01:23:19 PM »
wats d best multieffects pedal na pede isama sa analog pedals chain? ung d mashado digital sounding at tone sounding?
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leofelismino

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Re: new to effects
« Reply #171 on: September 10, 2007, 08:30:55 PM »
bitusan parang kilala  ko yang sa pic mo..... si ate karen ba yan?

nakasama namin dati sa shoot ng isang comm...

or if im mistaken baka kamukha lang

Offline andrton

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Re: new to effects
« Reply #172 on: September 10, 2007, 09:04:41 PM »
bitusan parang kilala  ko yang sa pic mo..... si ate karen ba yan?

nakasama namin dati sa shoot ng isang comm...

or if im mistaken baka kamukha lang

tol, si maria ozawa yan...japanese ehem...p***star...

ds1 should be a nice starting distortion pedal...a stock mt2, medyo ayos na...

pero tama lang na magstart ka sa hm100...low cost muna.. :-D

od2 ayos din... :-)

Offline fraudulentzodiac

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Re: new to effects
« Reply #173 on: September 10, 2007, 09:06:47 PM »
starting distortion pedal?RAT hehe.

Offline juan sinko

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Re: new to effects
« Reply #174 on: September 10, 2007, 09:10:44 PM »
starting distrtion ka magDS2 na 2nd hand o kaya mgBD2 ka kung gusto mo tunog gnr tpos dagdagan mo ng wah.
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