Why I feel local and Asian Pickups don't deserve your attention

[firemodel55]

thats probably the year his company was founded not the year he started winding since as mentioned he designed the Dry Z pickups on the Greco guitars in the early 80s. as you can see on some pics on his site, it looks like he got quite a lot of "exposure" on vintage guitars too.

Bry, Jim Rolph has been winding since 1959.  If you actually spend some time calling him up (but be prepared for a long, long conversation and some guitar playing plus a mega expensive phone bill), the wealth of information Jim has is astounding compared to any website.   Jim goes to the extent to even describe the gear that our guitar heroes use.   And again, I will say SINCE 1959.  The only reason I am seeing a pitch for Dry Z is the cheaper price versus Jim Rolph if Jun Takano is indeed cheaper.    I am telling you this early that beyond the website and internet nuggets we easily pass off for knowledge, Jim is the expert's expert.  As much as I believe a lot in the Japs, they still produce as much duds as Gibson USA in terms of character and sound. 

[stringman]

I think the more important take out that I want to say is that there is more to pickup manufacture and design and NOT ANYBODY can just wind good sounding pickups.  It takes YEARS and YEARS of exposure and experience to know what sounds good and what a good pickup contributes to the overall sound.  Again, I don't mean to insult Mang Max, but all he has to do is wind something dead on to a Gibson 57 Classic to prove his spurs.  Anybody can wind one or two or a dozen pickups and claim musicality for people who may or may NOT hear but its difficult to be winding pickups for twenty or more years with known guitarists as your customers a.k.a. Jim Rolph, etc...

Mang Max started as an electronics guys since the 70's. But I'm not sure if he was a musician, but for sure he knows how to play. With this I trust he invested an amount of time in R&D. But I' not comparing him to the US winders, I'm comparing him with other Asian manufacturers.

[bryvincent]

please don't get me wrong. i know who Jim Rolph is.  i know he makes great pickups and i don't doubt his experience at all. in fact, he is one of the boutique winders that i will actually consider buying from.  also, i'm not saying that Rolph's Pickups or Takano's Pickups are better than the other, its all subjective and can also depend on the guitar. i'm just showing that theres also a decent  Asian Boutique winder that deserves attention. by the way, Dry Z pickups are not exactly cheap, they are around $500 if you can find one. And Takano's pickups(K&T) ain't cheap either, they cost from around $1000 to $2000 per set   since everything is so much more expensive in Japan, pricewise that should be more or less in line with the US Boutique winders.

[firemodel55]

please don't get me wrong. i know who Jim Rolph is.  i know he makes great pickups and i don't doubt his experience at all. in fact, he is one of the boutique winders that i will actually consider buying from.  also, i'm not saying that Rolph's Pickups or Takano's Pickups are better than the other, its all subjective and can also depend on the guitar. i'm just showing that theres also a decent  Asian Boutique winder that deserves attention. by the way, Dry Z pickups are not exactly cheap, they are around $500 if you can find one. And Takano's pickups(K&T) ain't cheap either, they cost from around $1000 to $2000 per set   since everything is so much more expensive in Japan, pricewise that should be more or less in line with the US Boutique winders.

Point taken...

[gandydancer123]

--great discussion here ah! technical and daming insights..

one item struck me..about yung "tone" ng mga local na banda na di na nagbago or nagimprove...

totoo yun..medyo peeved ako sa tunog na yun "Distortorotot"..alam nyo yun? yung super super basic entry level tone ng guitar lalo pag naglead...torotot (trumpetlike ,fuzz)yung tunog..nakakaasar...Im no tone junkie or tone master pero..napaka irritating yung dating niya talaga.. tunog masa ,walang ka taste taste or sophistication.....

[Bolt Thrower]

I stopped using DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan a long time ago.  To me, they are the vanilla flavor of American Pickups -- the lowest on the rung.  So why should I even care about Korean made Tesla pickups?

haha para sa akin naman bare minimum na ang dimarzio at seymour duncan. i choose them because they are consistent and you know what to expect when you get them vs boutique hand wired stuff. id still choose an invader vs a bkp warpig.

[firemodel55]

haha para sa akin naman bare minimum na ang dimarzio at seymour duncan. i choose them because they are consistent and you know what to expect when you get them vs boutique hand wired stuff. id still choose an invader vs a bkp warpig.

Personally, I would not even rely on an invader to carry out distortion duties -- I leave that to the amp.  The invader does not capture the other qualities of the wood of the guitar that are necessary for a large sounding timbre.

[stringman]

Personally, I would not even rely on an invader to carry out distortion duties -- I leave that to the amp.  The invader does not capture the other qualities of the wood of the guitar that are necessary for a large sounding timbre.

The Invaders sound is so fat. Even if you put it in a strat it's still fat. I agree it doesn't bring in the sound of the timbre.

[akosimic]

I don't know if you guys know this but Chris Kinman considers me his first customer from the Philippines.  I actually bought a set from him a long time ago and he was asking me for it so he could compare if it sounded different from his current wind today.  I was surprised that he remembered me.  I spent some time with him and Arie at Subic and he asked me to bring my VOX AC30 so he could voice a new set of single coils for Hank Marvin.  By the way, I love his P90s which I consider one of his best.  But I consider his product more Western than Asian.  The guy knows what sounds good and can hear what sounds good.  Up to today, I consider his products tops if you want noiseless single coils.

Tried a Kinman before and loved it. Planning to get one when resources are available.

[Al Nico Five]

Why I feel local and Asian Pickups don't deserve your attention

1.The winders have no exposure OR
2. They don't have the ear to produce good sounding pickups

if i may respectfully ask sir who then are your top 5 pickup makers that have been deserving your attention lately? which winder has the most exposure and bears the best ear in producing good sounding pickups?

[deltaslim]

I think it matters more who and how they are designed and how strict the QA is, not where they are made or who actually 'makes' them.  Case in point: Apple iPad/iPhones (that's why it's ironic when people type "MIC sucks" on their iPads/iPhones).  Tonerider pus are designed in the US but are made in China. Many other gear makers (eg, Gibson, Fender, and even supposedly high end acoustic guitar makers) have moved their production to Asia. It's still the brand's fault if the quality has gone down on this age-old designs.

If you simply wanted to compare a certain US winder's work vs. a Pinoy or Asian one that's more direct to the point. Maybe you can compare worksmanship and quality of materials, but how would you compare tone?

[bakit?]

here we go again.......

[toybitz]

very constructive.

[superbida76]

yes  before I am very happy with what I have until I discover...



Philmusic 

AMEN. Everytime I browse guitar central...i start to realized a lot of things are missing in my life....then I turn my head to my 1-1/2month old First-Born..take a deep breath and say to him...."Good thing I have you Son...you better start early to get the things you want in life..."...

[djonathan]

pasawsaw 

[bakit?]

i think i deserve asian pickups.di ako mayaman e.plus im a hamfisted tone deaf guitarist anyway.haha.as long as tumutunog ng maayos okay na ako.of course kung may pera ako na madami, ibang uaspan na to.still, i admire guitarists/musicians whohave sub par gears and still play awesome.now that is something else.hehe.

[grasyaps]

i think i deserve asian pickups. di ako mayaman e...of course kung may pera ako na madami, ibang uaspan na to.

this.

equity. when we get the most for what we can put out into it.

guitarists/musicians whohave sub par gears and still play awesome.now that is something else.hehe.

this.

well, someone is making up for something he is lacking in.

[firemodel55]

i think i deserve asian pickups.di ako mayaman e.plus im a hamfisted tone deaf guitarist anyway.haha.as long as tumutunog ng maayos okay na ako.of course kung may pera ako na madami, ibang uaspan na to.still, i admire guitarists/musicians whohave sub par gears and still play awesome.now that is something else.hehe.

Its ok... As long as you expect to do things for free and NOT get paid....

Yeah but I have to admire MORE the guitarists/musicians who have ABOVE par gears and still play awesome.

[firemodel55]

this.

equity. when we get the most for what we can put out into it.  (Thats called TIIS but not necessarily meaning MAGALING)

this.

well, someone is making up for something he is lacking in.

(well, anong palagay mo sa sarili mo?  Just for clarification.)

[boybangs]

Here we go! 

[firemodel55]

I think it matters more who and how they are designed and how strict the QA is, not where they are made or who actually 'makes' them.  Case in point: Apple iPad/iPhones (that's why it's ironic when people type "MIC sucks" on their iPads/iPhones).  Tonerider pus are designed in the US but are made in China. Many other gear makers (eg, Gibson, Fender, and even supposedly high end acoustic guitar makers) have moved their production to Asia. It's still the brand's fault if the quality has gone down on this age-old designs.

If you simply wanted to compare a certain US winder's work vs. a Pinoy or Asian one that's more direct to the point. Maybe you can compare worksmanship and quality of materials, but how would you compare tone?

Nice to hear from you over there Joric... Hope everything is well.  I do agree with you if you are buying such as IPAD/IPOD/IPHONE.   In fact, China does produce quality stuff EXCEPT that the best things in life are NOT produced in China because the primary consideration for China manufacturing is COST.  Take for example, Mercedes Benz.  My Uncle told me that his friend, a Mercedes consultant friend of his found out that the most productive and highest quality Mercedes Benz plant in the world is based in Germany.  He recommends that you only buy those models produced in that specific plant in Germany among other models produced around thew world.  The funny thing is that Mercedes Benz invested billions of dollars in a new Mercedes Benz plant in the U.S. with GERMAN equipment, GERMAN systems, GERMAN construction and get this... IMPORTING GERMAN workers into America and yet this new plant fell short of the plant in Germany.  In the same way, I view guitars in the same way.  If you view guitars as something similar to the IPHONE/IPAD/IPOD, I would definitely just look at specs and quality control consistency.  If I were looking at the guitar as an artisan instrument that inspires and will forever be part of your life --- to change you and make you a better musician -- then person behind the instrument matters most.  Let us take a real life example...  I am amazed at how the Gibson Custom Shop today produces instruments to SPECS incompliance with how the actual 50s Gibsons were made.  Grabe ang attention to detail and grabe ang consistency ng SPECS nila.  Really great work but... ang daming Gibson Custom shop pa rin ang panget ang tunog.  Yet once in awhile may magandang Gibson Custom Shop na sobrang ganda ang tunog which makes the plunge worth it.  But for the record, wala pang akong nakita na Les Paul Copy na gawang China anywhere near my Gil Yaron Les Paul and I dare anybody to show me one in terms of accuracy, construction, quality of materials and most importantly SOUND and CHARACTER.

Its not that difficult to compare pickups... Just put the new pickup set into a guitar that you own or are familiar with. If its difficult or don't hear much of a difference, either the new picups are NOT really different or you are deaf. 

[pitongjerome]

Take for example, Mercedes Benz.  My Uncle told me that his friend, a Mercedes consultant friend of his found out that the most productive and highest quality Mercedes Benz plant in the world is based in Germany.  He recommends that you only buy those models produced in that specific plant in Germany among other models produced around thew world.  The funny thing is that Mercedes Benz invested billions of dollars in a new Mercedes Benz plant in the U.S. with GERMAN equipment, GERMAN systems, GERMAN construction and get this... IMPORTING GERMAN workers into America and yet this new plant fell short of the plant in Germany. 

so... same equipment, same system, same construction, same workers that are GERMAN.... the only difference in location..

what seems to be the problem? i just see inconsistency 

[grasyaps]

well, anong palagay mo sa sarili mo?  Just for clarification

i believe that if everyone takes your advice to dismiss local and Asian pickups simply because they are not at par with the american/european boutique pickups, everyone here will end up like you and together we'd all be a bunch of sad audiophiles.

and no one will be left actually playing music. coz either they cant afford expensive pickups or everyone would be too busy comparing which one had got the best tone, like retards repeatedly doing string pulls to show that their guitar sustains forever.

you may have a point but you are living in a dream world. your innuendos are so out of this world that it often, if not always, creates division - because it has always been between what is good (what you have) and rubbish (everything else).

at ang palagay ko sa sarili ko?

i own what i can afford. and its not tiis when i stress out equity. i acquire stuff i can get the most out of. ill be stupid to get a martin just to play small acoustic gigs that even if i play everyday for the entire year wont pay for that guitar when i could get a sturdy guitar that pleases my audience as well as my ears. im practical coz i live in the real world.

now for someone who acquires stuff just so he can tell everyone he's got the best and everything else is sh*t, hes simply one sad bigot of an audiophile.

[bakit?]

Its ok... As long as you expect to do things for free and NOT get paid....

Yeah but I have to admire MORE the guitarists/musicians who have ABOVE par gears and still play awesome.

oh dont get me wrong i get paid.sub par gears and all.i get paid.

yeah list your musicians with the best tones.ill list mine.lets compare.

[firemodel55]

i believe that if everyone takes your advice to dismiss local and Asian pickups simply because they are not at par with the american/european boutique pickups, everyone here will end up like you and together we'd all be a bunch of sad audiophiles.

(Really?  They end up most of the time selling their Asian made stuff in the Classifieds to upgrade to U.S. stuff.  Have you checked recently the ton of Asian made stuff not selling in the Classified section?  I am definitely not sad and I am NOT an audiophile -- I just hear stuff better than most people.  That being said, I feel it is my duty to tell people what is good gear and discriminate against the bad because that way they stop wasting money.  I mean there are already lots of bad stuff in the stores like J.B., Audiophile, Perfect Pitch, etc...  Guess what?  The common trend is that they are cheap.)

and no one will be left actually playing music. coz either they cant afford expensive pickups or everyone would be too busy comparing which one had got the best tone, like retards repeatedly doing string pulls to show that their guitar sustains forever.

(Play music?  I think before you start playing music and get paid for it, you owe it your audience to have good sounding equipment and then owe it to yourself to have the best at some point in time to help inspire you. Its more important to meet minimum standard than comparing who has the best tone.  I stopped doing that because I found out a majority of guitarists cannot hear 'best' tone.)

you may have a point but you are living in a dream world. your innuendos are so out of this world that it often, if not always, creates division - because it has always been between what is good (what you have) and rubbish (everything else).

(Someone else out there has more stuff and better stuff than I do.  I don't live in a dream world because 90% of the stuff that I bought since more than 25 years ago are still with me.  I don't flip stuff.  It stays.  Its people who keep on flipping who live in the dreamworld thinking that they remember how their past gear sound.  So, the bottomline is that I can prove my point.  And honestly, marami pa akong kulang na gear.  I will tell you that 90% of the stuff out there is rubbish and its NOT because I don't own them.  In fact, as I have said look at the growing list in the Classified Ads.  There is a REAL division between good and rubbish even if I am not to be explicit about it.  You know it and the rest of the world knows it.  The problem is that people are at a loss where to classify a piece of gear, so I just help out in the process.  Proof: check your first paragraph)

at ang palagay ko sa sarili ko?

i own what i can afford. and its not tiis when i stress out equity. i acquire stuff i can get the most out of. ill be stupid to get a martin just to play small acoustic gigs that even if i play everyday for the entire year wont pay for that guitar when i could get a sturdy guitar that pleases my audience as well as my ears. im practical coz i live in the real world.

(A substandard world... Mag charge ka ng P500 na entrance per head para maka afford ka ng Martin. Sa USA, baka mas malaking pagasa mo mag charge ng mataas.  Iyun na nga ang problema eh sa Pinas .... lahat barat.  Hindi ka mabigyan ng audience mo ng tamang gate fee dahil tingin nila cheap lang dapat lahat.  You are NOT practical.  You are a victim of low standards of Pinoys.)

now for someone who acquires stuff just so he can tell everyone he's got the best and everything else is sh*t, hes simply one sad bigot of an audiophile.

(I am NOT a bigot because I can prove my points at least to people who can hear.  I do NOT have to earn a living being a musician.  I have NO interest to promote any products.  Stop projecting superiority over audiophiles kasi at the end of the day they may hear better than you.)

To the rest of philmusic, I completely understand the problem in the Philippines.  In fact, it becomes more necessary to spend on the best equipment for the simple reason that we do not have enough money and resources to waste on substandard ones that you hope to upgrade at a later time.  Up to today, people still refuse to attend and watch live bands because of the poor quality of the P.A. and the poor sound of guitar tones.  Pati, sina Tony MacAlpine at Billy Sheehan nagtutunog panget sa Pinas.  How can you say that equipment is NOT as important if you have to pay P3k and above to have Tony and Billy sound worse than their CDs and Blue-Rays?