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Author Topic: tanong lang about sa amplifiers  (Read 7269 times)

Offline mang_disto

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tanong lang about sa amplifiers
« on: April 16, 2006, 12:05:35 PM »
guys tanong ko lang kung ilang watts ng amplifier ang "sapat" na para magamit sya sa jamming ng banda pati na rin sa gig kung gusto ko mag dala ng sarili kong amp...help...  :)
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Offline pallas

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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2006, 12:10:46 PM »
pag small clubs pre ok na 30 watts para sa akin. Keep in mind dapat portable rin. Nung bumili ako ng amp the 15 watts was loud as well but went with a 2x12 30 watts na ambigat. Big mistake should have gone for the 1x12 na 15 watts as i could lift it with one hand :D
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Offline stratman1

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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2006, 04:20:42 PM »
Jamming- 30-50 watts, ayos na yun. Of course, kung malakas ang hataw ng drummer mo, eh di 100 watts ang kailangan mo.

Gig- 50-100 watts. Mostly sa gig namin, kung desente ang sound tech, naka mic ang mga gamit at tunog labas sa PA kaya malakas at timplado na para sa audience. Gamit ko 100 watts lagi pag gig pero hindi naman maka max ang volume. Mostly 1/2 way lang ang power na gamit ko. Magagalit lang ang sound tech sa iyo kung sobra ang lakas mo. 50 watts... good. 100 watts... better so you have more headroom. Kung buhatan is a factor, you may want to look at the 1 or 2x12 combo amps. Way less hassle than a 1/2, or God forbid, a full stack, hehe.
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Offline ioffendpeople

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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 07:57:05 PM »
Quote from: stratman1
Gig- 50-100 watts.


Or maybe a minimum of 30 when you're going tube?  :?:
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Offline pallas

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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2006, 08:21:10 PM »
Quote from: ioffendpeople
Quote from: stratman1
Gig- 50-100 watts.


Or maybe a minimum of 30 when you're going tube?  :?:

Yup  30watt class A amps are loud and so are 15. May sag switch pa nga yung na-testing na 15 watts down to 6 watts and ok tunog pag naka-full bore. Natural tube saturation :D
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O Rose, Thou art sick! The invisible worm that flies in the night, In the howling storm, Has found out thy bed of crimson joy: and his dark secret love, Does thy life destroy.   

William Blake, The Sick Rose

Offline skunkyfunk

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 01:43:25 AM »
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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tanong lang about sa amplifiers
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2006, 04:31:13 AM »
Wattage does not matter.  You really have to test and gig an amp to find out.
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2006, 04:54:31 AM »
in this particular thread, it does...please refer to the original post...


Quote from: oasgomez
Wattage does not matter.  You really have to test and gig an amp to find out.
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2006, 05:23:19 AM »
"guys tanong ko lang kung ilang watts ng amplifier ang "sapat" na para magamit sya sa jamming ng banda"

For the benefit of MarkFlo and those stuck on wattage.  I interpret this to mean that I need an amp with sufficient loudness that will punch through a band which means for me, loudness is the issue.  Loudness is not just a function of wattage but a function of speaker SPL, amplifier voicing and ability ng amp para tumapon at magCUT.  As demonstrated in the past gig at the small club MAGNET, a 180 watt tube when designed properly can hold its own at low volumes in a small club.  On the other hand my VOX AC30TBX -- a 33 watter with efficient Celestion Blues can hang out and hold its own with a Soldano SLO 100 watter on Celestion Vintage 30s.  Mr. Markflo, you are so stuck on theory.   So lets do theory, with all things being equal this is the power wattage curve for a listener to perceive double the loudness: 1 watt, 10 watts, 100 watts and 1000 watts.  It just demonstrates your lack of exposure.
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Offline jack in a vox

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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 05:39:30 AM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Wattage does not matter.  You really have to test and gig an amp to find out.


i agree with pallas, portability is also worth considering.. 30 watts may be plenty for a tube amp.. but unless you have a friggin pickup or a truck, goodluck with an AC30! :P
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2006, 05:53:55 AM »
I thought you could carry your AC30 by yourself?  So, lets set another thread on portability vs. loudness or something like loudness per pound.  The topic was wattage and I said and I still say wattage is not a factor to consider.
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Offline sonnyrayvaughn

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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2006, 05:56:07 AM »
Oas, i guess we're talking bout your Diezel again..sigh. anyway, i agree about your point about perceived loudness  being 1, 10, 100  ... but a 1-watt or 10 watt amp will have less "headroom" compared to a say Peavey classic 30...  the 1 and 10 watt amp's clean channel will go into distortion too early, whereas a 50 or 30 watt amp will give you the convinience of not having to crank up the volume and go to early distortion...definitely, your 180 watt Diezel will have plenty of headroom,  but do you really need that much?

anyway, here a link to guitarnuts, i find it very educational lalo na about debunking amplifier myths...
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.php
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2006, 06:03:23 AM »
My point is that when I bring an amp, i bring it because of its sound and tapon.  I do not look if it is a 10 watt or 180 watt amp.  I dare anyone to pinpoint a sound because of wattage e.g. Its brighter because its 100 watt.  It overdrives easier because its only 15 watts.  

More than wattage, as I said, its amplifier design, selection of components, output transformer, choice of guitar speaker, speaker cables used, cabinet enclosure design and materials, etc.  Even amps with the same preamp designs mated to different power sections react differently because of different power amp designs not because of wattage.
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2006, 06:11:14 AM »
I have read guitarnuts since time in memorial.  This article was written way before Mojave, Maven Peal, Guytron and Diezel Herbert came out.  When we talk about scalable master volume, some of the stuff he is talking about specially concerning wattage ceases to apply.  By the way, I have nothing against small amps.
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Offline jack in a vox

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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2006, 06:12:08 AM »
Quote from: oasgomez
I thought you could carry your AC30 by yourself?  So, lets set another thread on portability vs. loudness or something like loudness per pound.  The topic was wattage and I said and I still say wattage is not a factor to consider.


yup i can.. but why should i? i'm not stupid.. i can get away with carrying its baby brother the AC15 instead.. :D

there are plenty of small amps with plenty of wattage.. classic 30.. classic 50.. fender hotrod.. delta blues..

if wattage is not an issue.. use a marshall amp like this then:
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2006, 06:27:32 AM »
well, i gotta hand it to him...he's a pretty smart id|ot...still...

the topic is wattage...so WE ARE STUCK ON WATTAGE! COZ THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE...NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS... read and understand the question!  it's a simple one...

I'M NOT STUCK ON THEORY...I'M STUCK ON THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD...which apparently, you're trying to use so that you can start gushing over your amp again...


besides...the question used the word "sapat" ...which implies that we're going from low to high volume over here...sapat...enough....how many watts is enough...we're going from smaller to bigger here...gets? not the other way around...how much is ENOUGH...how much is ENOUGH....that's the question you dumb a$$

then you go about ranting that your 180 watt POS amp can hold it's own in a small club....who gives a [gooey brown stuff]? only you do, apparently...

sure you know alot of theory...

but can you apply it when you can't even understand a simple question?

alam ko naman kung bakit ganyan hirit mo eh...umeentrada ka lang para mapag usapan ulit yang mga gamit mo na hanggang ngayon, di mo parin napapatunayan na alam mo gamitin...

...bow...



Quote from: oasgomez
"guys tanong ko lang kung ilang watts ng amplifier ang "sapat" na para magamit sya sa jamming ng banda"

For the benefit of MarkFlo and those stuck on wattage.  I interpret this to mean that I need an amp with sufficient loudness that will punch through a band which means for me, loudness is the issue.  Loudness is not just a function of wattage but a function of speaker SPL, amplifier voicing and ability ng amp para tumapon at magCUT.  As demonstrated in the past gig at the small club MAGNET, a 180 watt tube when designed properly can hold its own at low volumes in a small club.  On the other hand my VOX AC30TBX -- a 33 watter with efficient Celestion Blues can hang out and hold its own with a Soldano SLO 100 watter on Celestion Vintage 30s.  Mr. Markflo, you are so stuck on theory.   So lets do theory, with all things being equal this is the power wattage curve for a listener to perceive double the loudness: 1 watt, 10 watts, 100 watts and 1000 watts.  It just demonstrates your lack of exposure.
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Offline pallas

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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2006, 06:40:00 AM »
away na naman :cry:
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O Rose, Thou art sick! The invisible worm that flies in the night, In the howling storm, Has found out thy bed of crimson joy: and his dark secret love, Does thy life destroy.   

William Blake, The Sick Rose

Offline sonnyrayvaughn

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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2006, 06:44:31 AM »
Quote from: oasgomez
My point is that when I bring an amp, i bring it because of its sound and tapon.  I do not look if it is a 10 watt or 180 watt amp.  I dare anyone to pinpoint a sound because of wattage e.g. Its brighter because its 100 watt.  It overdrives easier because its only 15 watts.  

More than wattage, as I said, its amplifier design, selection of components, output transformer, choice of guitar speaker, speaker cables used, cabinet enclosure design and materials, etc.  Even amps with the same preamp designs mated to different power sections react differently because of different power amp designs not because of wattage.


while I agree on most of your points here...but have you ever gigged extensively before?iba ang volume when youre on stage compared to the sound that the audience hears...

now regarding your dare: i will be very disappointed at you kung di mo madidinig ang difference between a cranked 15watt amp going into distortion compared to a 100watt marshall with the same perceived loudness considering you have "cultured" ears and your "over-exposure" to amps.
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2006, 06:46:53 AM »
siguro laging talo 'to si oasgomez sa mga spelling bee nung grade school...kaya ngayon parang laging may kelangan patunayan...heheh
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Offline pallas

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2006, 06:47:36 AM »
woke up this morning...ooohh hu
got the guuuuitar central baaaaahlues....trang trang trang tang tang
everyones ah figh-in and ah cuuhssin bout em amps n wattage uussse...
wwooonnnnroooaaarrr...[chewbacca] na nga na nga na nangnganang eeehhhk
eeehhhkk eeeehhhkk wwwaaahhhhrrrrrrrrrr rr :cry:  :cry: ooooooohhhhrrrr..smashes guitar by this point :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry: mang disto is more confused than ever :lol:
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O Rose, Thou art sick! The invisible worm that flies in the night, In the howling storm, Has found out thy bed of crimson joy: and his dark secret love, Does thy life destroy.   

William Blake, The Sick Rose

Offline jack in a vox

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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2006, 06:51:03 AM »
well he somehow managed to hijack another thread and talk about nothing but himself and his toys.. and the fact that he probably just plays in his bedroom most of the time. great!  :shock:
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2006, 06:53:39 AM »
so why post in this WATTAGE thread if you say that it's not a factor to consider? naliligaw ka ba? it's like walking into a chinese restaurant and not wanting chinese food...dun ka nalang sa diezel herbert thread mo...

anyway, back to the topic...for jamming, based on EXPERIENCE...pag solid state, siguro ayos mga 60-90 watts...pag tube mga 15-50 will be more than enough...

so you see oas? that's how you answer a simple question...with a simple answer...fre@k...



Quote from: oasgomez
I thought you could carry your AC30 by yourself?  So, lets set another thread on portability vs. loudness or something like loudness per pound.  The topic was wattage and I said and I still say wattage is not a factor to consider.
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Offline deltaslim

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Re: tanong lang about sa amplifiers
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2006, 07:30:21 AM »
Quote from: mang_disto
guys tanong ko lang kung ilang watts ng amplifier ang "sapat" na para magamit sya sa jamming ng banda pati na rin sa gig kung gusto ko mag dala ng sarili kong amp...help...  :)


haay naku... another thread bites the dust.  let me do my share for "world peace"

mang_disto - treat these suggestions as general guidelines. there are no absolutes. but i'm assuming you're referring to a combo amp vs. head and cab since you said you want portability. and for gigging let's assume a typical club here in manila w/ the average size and audiences.

if it's a tube amp, i find that 20w - 40w is just about right. pero minimum dyan 1x12. 2x12 or 4x10s would be nice for dispersion and volume but kyna un-necessary if ur micing it anyway. i find that a tube amp beyond 40watts usually is too heavy to carry to gigs and jams anyway so...

IMO, important consideration yung wattage and speaker sensitivity if clean headroom is an issue.  kahit pa may master volume ang amp mo kung 15w lang siya, it's not going to give you enough clean tone when you need it.  again, in my experience lang ha (i haven't tried an AC15 for eg but a Blues Jr is bitin for me).

another consideration in this whole issue is EQ. with the right eq settings, you can be "heard" in a band context. set your eq wrong and you're "lubog"

if it's a solid state amp, i find that you need at least 60w, preferably more but prolly no more than 100w.

now if it's a bigger venue, it's likely that they will already have PA. in which case, just mike the darn thing. what's important is that you will hear yourself from your own amp pa rin with or w/o monitors.
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Offline deltaslim

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Re: tanong lang about sa amplifiers
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2006, 07:36:11 AM »
[snip dobol post]
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Offline BAMF

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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2006, 09:29:40 AM »
Hmm...my G15 is pretty small, and is a 15 Watter, but it's got enough power to get over the sound of the drums, with some more to spare actually. That's here in my small cramped house, from experience as well.
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