QUALITY vs COST

[bryanarzaga]

Hey bro, so those clips were not really the high end guitars nor your friends, I knew it!   

lol yeah

As you have probably noticed I don't buy that hiyaw crap.

i just want audible information..

I recommended to get close to the speaker so can EASILY get feedback but you don't necessarily have to do that like in your case. Some setups do the feedback thing easily w/o the high volume, some do not. Yours does it easily but there's no such thing as (magic)hiyaw. You probably noticed that you do not get that on every note on your guitar as evident on the clip but man, turn it up and you will! Another thing is if you really dig that sound then try a sustainer equipped guitar.

lol another one for hiyaw, but anyway sustainer pickups arent my thing, its not the sustaining factor im after..its the way that note does it. its less distinctive with the lower strings more like just a fat muff, but i can do it on 14 frets below, any higher than that it doesnt ring the same thing

sorry for the OT

[pitongjerome]

just my thought:

im happy to be satisfied with my tone for 1/4 the money that other people dig from their pockets.. some people needs $5k to be happy and satisfied while most of us here achieve that contentment at a lot less money.

[rolexm]

I would beg to disagree man.  Because if that were true, all of us would be happy with Behringer stomps.   

There IS a correlation between quality and cost, but it is not at all linear.  AT one price point (very cheap) the quality  of a piece of gear can be so poor, with some "sleepers", but as you increase the cost of production (can be because of materials or money spent on research), the quality becomes better, in general. At the corksniffer price points, you are spending an extra $2000 for something that can yield a hairline difference, say, a titanium tailpiece and titanium bridge/saddle assembly for a Les Paul.  One very small step forward for something you don't know if 98% of the population can hear,  which costs more than an average Pinoy's yearly earnings.

Just to make things clear, I don't like personal attacks.  However, I digress that sometimes intellectual trolling stimulates a good discussion, however, they can yield some unfavorable reactions.

Just to clarify: no direct - could also mean not linear (not 1:1). I'm actually leaning to believe that it's exponential. Haha.

[markv]

Water sucks! Gatorade is better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDJiAbC9GLY

[rolexm]

@ bryan & hmn8:

Thought so... That hiyaw was just amp positioning and maybe the acoustics of the room? Maybe it's some pysch-marketing that we create our own satisfaction when we justify the things that we bought, cheap or expensive.

Nonetheless, if you can't make it sound good then it's not for you. Hehe.

[pitongjerome]

i might as well ask, my guitar has got hiyaw, and i mean its like harmonics and it just happens at the note A. yeah even i mute the strings its got that A harmonic which i learned to like. it happens on every strings A note

i brought it to arie to diagnose if theres an uneven frets which causes the harmonic and he says wala daw and i dont need to spend money at all for that. he says its desirable daw and also kung uneven frets daw un eh di sana putol agad ung tunog pag nagbebend ako but it has a long sustain daw. he also mentioned overtones and stuff and explains me many things,

can anyone tell what causes that or possibly what causes that?

[bryanarzaga]

@ bryan & hmn8:

Thought so... That hiyaw was just amp positioning and maybe the acoustics of the room?

nope, i had the amps' cab facing the wall, as hmn8 states its just the guitars' setup and i agree with him. thats how i set up my guitar, well to me since i setup all my guitars and even refret,level,crowning,polish i know what i want when it comes to the feel and playability of my guitars,

Nonetheless, if you can't make it sound good then it's not for you. Hehe.

or you still have to look for something else and learn how to justify how the instrument is matched(setup,hardware and other guitar factors)

[rolexm]

nope, i had the amps' cab facing the wall, as hmn8 states its just the guitars' setup and i agree with him. thats how i set up my guitar, well to me since i setup all my guitars and even refret,level,crowning,polish i know what i want when it comes to the feel and playability of my guitars,

or you still have to look for something else and learn how to justify how the instrument is matched(setup,hardware and other guitar factors)

I see. Many factors talaga. Haha.

Given the premise that you can make something sound good. 

[hmn8]

After reading bryan and jerome's post regarding hiyaw, it seems that I misunderstood what you guys meant. When I first read about it I thought a guitar that has hiyaw makes that sound on ANY note on the guitar at any volume so I thought "no way a guitar could do that no matter how expensive", I thought it was something like this but w/o the gadget:

After reading jerome's post it's all clear to me now. It is just another mysterious byproduct of the guitar's properties. Any guitar has that quality but it is different on each guitar. Mine does it on a G note, Brian's on the E note and Jerome's on the A note. Brian's right, it's was not feedback, even if he unplugged his guitar and hit that note it will still make that sound, the amp was merely amplifying the sound from the guitar. That explains to me why it didn't sound the same when he hit the D note. By the way, @pitongjerome, your guitar has it on every A note and you don't want it? Well then that's not hiyaw, that A-yaw! (sorry, had to do it  )

[pitongjerome]

After reading bryan and jerome's post regarding hiyaw, it seems that I misunderstood what you guys meant. When I first read about it I thought a guitar that has hiyaw makes that sound on ANY note on the guitar at any volume so I thought "no way a guitar could do that no matter how expensive", I thought it was something like this but w/o the gadget:

After reading jerome's post it's all clear to me now. It is just another mysterious byproduct of the guitar's properties. Any guitar has that quality but it is different on each guitar. Mine does it on a G note, Brian's on the E note and Jerome's on the A note. Brian's right, it's was not feedback, even if he unplugged his guitar and hit that note it will still make that sound, the amp was merely amplifying the sound from the guitar. That explains to me why it didn't sound the same when he hit the D note. By the way, @pitongjerome, your guitar has it on every A note and you don't want it? Well then that's not hiyaw, that A-yaw! (sorry, had to do it  )

yeah at first i thought it was a defect but a luthier checked and there was no problem daw. tama i can hear it even though walang amp. pero pag amplified na, lalo na pag high gain, yes rinig na rinig.. before, naiinis ako kasi gusto ko kontrolado ko ang harmonic, like pinch harmonic... pero ngaun, dahil sa alam ko na ang A note ang "sweet" spot ng gitara ko, pag aus ang A note sa chord, well i let the guitar sing by itself. A-yaw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[BAMF]

I thought that the "hiyaw" factor was hype too. Until Arie showed me.

See, he had no stake in it, he was not selling me anything. He told me what to look for. The guitar gets louder as you bend a string and there's a swirling effect in the head. Aside from that, there is this "head rush" that you feel as the note bends up. Yes I detected what he meant. I don't think any microphone can detect it, but I have some hopes if your microphone were a head dummy (with elements in the ears). Kasi from previous disciplines I've dabbled in, this is what's called a binaural beat. Its a swirl or sound that happens inside your head- literally. It cannot be recreated unless you use stereo mikes and preferably a human head dummy.

But that's Arie, and that's his criteria of what makes a great guitar. We may subscribe to it...or not. Di ba ? But there's no use dissing this information just because you don't like Alex di ba ? 

[pitongjerome]

I thought that the "hiyaw" factor was hype too. Until Arie showed me.

See, he had no stake in it, he was not selling me anything. He told me what to look for. The guitar gets louder as you bend a string and there's a swirling effect in the head. Aside from that, there is this "head rush" that you feel as the note bends up. Yes I detected what he meant. I don't think any microphone can detect it, but I have some hopes if your microphone were a head dummy (with elements in the ears). Kasi from previous disciplines I've dabbled in, this is what's called a binaural beat. Its a swirl or sound that happens inside your head- literally. It cannot be recreated unless you use stereo mikes and preferably a human head dummy.

But that's Arie, and that's his criteria of what makes a great guitar. We may subscribe to it...or not. Di ba ? But there's no use dissing this information just because you don't like Alex di ba ? 

i also heard his tele, he keeps on bending it and bending it.. its nice..
and mind you all, unplugged, it was buzzing real bad! the reason he showed me that was because i complained on buzzing on an unplugged guitar, my dear guitar. then he showed me his tele, his rip roaring bend heeeeeeeyoooooooooooooooooooowwwwwww!! and he told me mine does it too, well i could hear it naman, he even compared my prs se to a US prs, and i was lucky daw sa guitar na napili ko (sa pagbili ko, i was just testing kung ung intonation ko eh 100% all throughout the fretboard). and all is well im then happy and contented with my guitar, arie just lowered the slots on my nut and off i go.

that tele was buzzing real hard unplugged, but on amp, it was damn great. kaya ako bender ngayon dahil dun sa experience ko ngayon. my licks almost always include bends. even my pinky can bend a full note easliy lol.

so if that hiyaw is really that hiyaw of arie's guitar, well i think marami din naman guitar ang meron nun? and he also mentioned that he tried different guitars na walang hiyaw til he came across his tele.

my conclusion:
maybe that hiyaw can be experienced by any guitar even though its not 5k guitar with the greatest wood there is and all of that. sa pagkakabuild ata un.

[Poundcake]

This discussion is pointless.

A high-end guy who won't appreciate low-end gear.

Low-end guys who can't accept that insanely priced equipment are priced as such for a reason other than capitalizing on the brand name.

This crappola has been discussed a zillion times and you guys still don't get it? Come on, guys!

Don't gang up on Alex. He sure as heck can't play at gigging-level proficiency but tonewise, he knows what he's talking about (or at least the people around him know what they're talking about). I also used to be an Alex-basher but after trying out and owning the same brands that he has been "bragging" about, I was convinced that while there are really great sounding mass produced guitars out there, the chances that you'll be able to get a great guitar are much higher as your price point goes up. Here's an extreme case: it is almost impossible to find a Sta. Mesa-made Ibanez replica (guitar A) to sound as good as an Ibanez Prestige guitar (guitar B). That gap would certainly decrease as guitar A's price and quality goes up but there would still be a difference no matter what. This has been discussed already, right? So why bother to fight about this yet again? Geez!

Also, I am convinced that great sounding mass produced guitars can reach the quality level of standard boutique guitars BUT exceptional boutique guitars can sound even better. I've tested a lot of crappy Suhr and Tom Anderson guitars and I've also tested several killer G&L or Fender Strats and Teles. But say if I compare a great production Fender with a great Suhr, chances are I'll like the Suhr more because they use better raw materials (i.e. wood) and have a stricter quality control process. That doesn't rob the the good sounding production guitar of its "goodness" tonewise, but most of the time, using better components simply gives better results. Yet another thing that has been discussed previously, right?   

For those who think that buying uber-priced gear is outrageous, then that's your opinion. But you might want to try some more high end guitars first so that you'll know what Alex means.

As for Alex, tone down the gear bashing. You've already made your point so don't rub it in. People will really get pissed off if you continue to post such remarks.

TONE IT DOWN, GUYS (no pun intended). Stop the immature mudslinging/name-calling/etc. Ang tatanda nyo na, yung iba meron pa kayong mga anak na naggigitara na rin. Mahiya naman kayo sa mga batang members dito. Nagiging perya na naman tong Guitar Central e. Thanks.

[BAMF]

Well, I did tell rolexm that he was going down a long and slippery slope lol.

So let's end this and just spread the love. Yung chix rolex ha. Sa national gas day hehehe.

[BAMF]

I have a theory. It's "love".

Like have you noticed how sometimes the same restaurant, that operates off the same exacting recipes, doesn't always have food that tastes good ? Good maybe but there are days when a bite would just make you close your eyes and thank God Almighty for the bounty he has brought you, through those God-bless-them chefs ?

Then in a cooking show which I can't remember which one, the chef said "never cook when you're in a bad mood, your food will just taste bad no matter how well you cook it".

So it's "love". It's "energy". It's the mood of the luthier as he crafts his product.

Yeah ? Yeah right ? 

i might as well ask, my guitar has got hiyaw, and i mean its like harmonics and it just happens at the note A. yeah even i mute the strings its got that A harmonic which i learned to like. it happens on every strings A note

i brought it to arie to diagnose if theres an uneven frets which causes the harmonic and he says wala daw and i dont need to spend money at all for that. he says its desirable daw and also kung uneven frets daw un eh di sana putol agad ung tunog pag nagbebend ako but it has a long sustain daw. he also mentioned overtones and stuff and explains me many things,

can anyone tell what causes that or possibly what causes that?

[pitongjerome]

i honestly believe that love can be an ingredient in crafting things.

sa bagay kaya pala ibang paintings may buhay ung iba wala?

[rolexm]

Well, I did tell rolexm that he was going down a long and slippery slope lol.

So let's end this and just spread the love. Yung chix rolex ha. Sa national gas day hehehe.

Hey. I believe in the goodness in people.  Haha.

Yup, I'll have a set present. Haha.

I want to hear this hiyaw. Could it be playing as well?

[siore]

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new, an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto: Anyone can cook. But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Gusteau's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in France. I will be returning to Gusteau's soon, hungry for more.

One day the average joe will understand that he gets what he pays for, but even more significant is when the critic finds a truly great guitar, from somewhere where he least expects it.

For now, if a guitar is special to you, don't let anyone take away the satisfaction of playing it.

[masterchoxter]

One day the average joe will understand that he gets what he pays for, but even more significant is when the critic finds a truly great guitar, from somewhere where he least expects it.

For now, if a guitar is special to you, don't let anyone take away the satisfaction of playing it.

and this ended it all... i love the last part... kudos to you siore!

[BAMF]

Hey. I believe in the goodness in people.  Haha.

Yup, I'll have a set present. Haha.

I want to hear this hiyaw. Could it be playing as well?

I achieved it (IMHO) on my Squier Strat. It's not here in the studio but the "head rush" and swirl and binaural beat experience has already been made. I haven't brought it again to Arie's for a 2nd round of tests but I think it will hold its own against his made-in-heaven MIJ strat.

[BAMF]

Hey. I believe in the goodness in people.  Haha.

Yup, I'll have a set present. Haha.

I want to hear this hiyaw. Could it be playing as well?

Actually what I meant was the quality vs. cost thing, the entire point of this entire thread . Time and time and time again this has been discussed, re-discussed, beat to death, actually some of us are already sick of it . But I indulge, for the sake of the newcomers and those who have been "out".

Please refer to Poundcake's post

[jimy james]

Copy that sir Poundcake. No more OAS bashing.

as for BAMF...

[bryanarzaga]

curtains down...

here is the ending soundtrack..

[hmn8]

I thought that the "hiyaw" factor was hype too. Until Arie showed me.
See, he had no stake in it, he was not selling me anything. He told me what to look for. The guitar gets louder as you bend a string and there's a swirling effect in the head. Aside from that, there is this "head rush" that you feel as the note bends up. Yes I detected what he meant. I don't think any microphone can detect it, but I have some hopes if your microphone were a head dummy (with elements in the ears). Kasi from previous disciplines I've dabbled in, this is what's called a binaural beat. Its a swirl or sound that happens inside your head- literally. It cannot be recreated unless you use stereo mikes and preferably a human head dummy.

But that's Arie, and that's his criteria of what makes a great guitar. We may subscribe to it...or not. Di ba ? But there's no use dissing this information just because you don't like Alex di ba ? 

I hope I didn't sound like I was dissing the hiyaw sound. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, as what you've all stated I know it does but its just a bit overrated IMHO. Like I said before, that "sound" is a guitar's (un)natural characteristic and every guitar has it. Based on the posts, we have various guitars from various manufacturers within a very wide price range, from very cheap to the very expensive all exhibiting the same characteristic. So what does that tell us? IMHO basing a criteria on what makes a great guitar on this factor alone is like saying all guitars sound great. But hey, that's just my opinion base d on my experience and people can subscribe to it or not like you said. To add to that there's also no use of not accepting the real facts just because the guys you like told you otherwise di ba? 

[hmn8]

curtains down...

here is the ending soundtrack..

 The quality of the music justifies the cost of the gear.