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Author Topic: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order  (Read 71847 times)

Offline firemodel55

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Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« on: October 02, 2010, 08:33:41 PM »
Time and time again I have been challenged to place a custom order for a guitar.  Time and time again, I have always found it risky -- more riskier than buying a guitar from a retail store.  At least you can walk away from a piece of crap in store.  For custom orders, you cannot walk from it that easily and I believe 90% of these guitars are bad sounding and without character -- no exceptions.  Some people may justify custom order because of the need for specs or maybe because they cannot afford the real thing and are trying to save but that does not exempt them from getting a dud.  Most of them will not admit it because of their ego or plainly because they cannot hear that its a bad sounding guitar.  A lot of my friends abroad have advised me not to engage in custom order for my requirements and they would rather prefer to produce the guitar first and for them to test before recommending it to me.

Unfortunately, most of these guitar companies are filled to capacity and have no piece to spare for me to try and reject.  On the other hand, retail store inventory is really sub par compared to those that are limited in production and usually unless you know the owner -- the good sounding pieces of a batch are kept in reserve at the back for their top customers.  In addition, stores with online capability are afraid to stand by/recommend a guitar to me because of my high requirements.  Some stores that are capable, just don't have the stocks or they feel that their current inventory will not meet my standards.  I have also grown tired of trying out a hundred guitars in a day in stores such as Tom Lee and Swee Lee and disappoint the salesman that their precious stocks of Gibson Custom Shop, PRS and Fender Shop all suck.  So am I tired of telling people that they have bad sounding guitars and looking at me as if I cannot afford what they are saying.

Well I have decided to take a risk on luthier that I will not name until the end of the build.  The build time is one year, so I can only update this thread irregularly depending on the build status.  I will also refrain from indicating the type/model of the guitar because I believe it will keep the build interesting.  I am taking a risk on this luthier because I believe he is one of the best in the world.  And more importantly, I want to show the STANDARDS that we should measure the Elegees, Jun Castros and Max Rufos of this world.  The build is expensive so I am not expecting everybody to afford it but I feel that members of this forum should witness a truly world class building experience.

Take note that the task at hand for this luthier is to be aesthetically correct and build in the response and sound of one of the best sounding guitars in the world.  As an analogy, its like designing and building a Miss Universe with intelligence.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 09:03:16 PM »
Believe it or not but this build starts with Maple Top Selection.  I was amazed by the number of tops available for me to choose from.  34 at that with various choices from western maple, western maple exhibition grade, flamey eastern maple, 50 year old billet cut eastern maple, 50 year old plain eastern maple, old growth flamey eastern maple, eastern maple exhibition grade.  I will not be able to show them all here but they are so beautiful and unique that I need your help to select from the ones that I pre-selected.  I suddenly realized that none of the local luthiers can offer such flexibility in tops and more importantly, these tops were guaranteed to sound good.  So here goes the unbiased labelling:

Top A:



Top B:



Top C:



Top D:



Top E:



Top F:



Top G:



Top H:



Top I:



Top J:



Top K:



Top L:



Top M:



Top N:



Top O:



Top P:



Top Q:



Top R:



Top S:



Top T:



Top U:



Top  V:



Top W:



Top X:




These are all premium tops not found in the county and will probably never even arrive here.  Even abroad these tops are rare.  Thank you for helping me select for my custom build.

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 09:05:07 PM »
cool that you found a luthier that can read your mind...

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 09:11:16 PM »
cool that you found a luthier that can read your mind...

Actually, its not about reading my mind, its about translating what he is hearing in his head about his experience... you'll find out later as the build progresses.

Offline superbuni123

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 09:29:34 PM »
Actually, its not about reading my mind, its about translating what he is hearing in his head about his experience... you'll find out later as the build progresses.

Can't seem to follow this one. So is the luthier crafting you a guitar that is based on what HE is hearing in HIS head? And what HE is hearing is about HIS experience? Forgive me for my ignorance, but shouldn't a custom be based on YOUR preferences not HIS?
Learning to be a man without losing the boy in me...


Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 09:35:50 PM »
Can't seem to follow this one. So is the luthier crafting you a guitar that is based on what HE is hearing in HIS head? And what HE is hearing is about HIS experience? Forgive me for my ignorance, but shouldn't a custom be based on YOUR preferences not HIS?

Not really.  At least I get to choose the top and the finish and some other appointments.  And the most important thing is that there are some similarities for what I want for a custom guitar but his breadth of experience completes the reality.  So, in this case, its a custom order with the luthier's skill at the forefront.  This is a new concept that I am trying to educate people one this forum.  RECOGNIZE EXPERTS and GIVE THEM CONTROL OF THE MAJORITY OF THE SITUATION.  These two principles are what I believe in to get a sounding custom guitar with character.

Offline spetsnaz1123

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 09:41:33 PM »
Why not name the luthier? Is he under protective custody or something? :-D...
'one never fails until he quits trying'

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 09:52:56 PM »
Can't seem to follow this one. So is the luthier crafting you a guitar that is based on what HE is hearing in HIS head? And what HE is hearing is about HIS experience? Forgive me for my ignorance, but shouldn't a custom be based on YOUR preferences not HIS?

basically fm can only select the top(my god help you choose well), and the luthier builds it according to his experience(may god guide his hand and experience)..

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 09:53:42 PM »
Why not name the luthier? Is he under protective custody or something? :-D...

As the build ends you will find him out...:)

Offline spetsnaz1123

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2010, 09:58:09 PM »
Wow...nakaka-excite makita yung finished product kaya lang after 1 year pa :|.
'one never fails until he quits trying'

Offline cayle

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2010, 10:08:16 PM »
This looks interesting. Keep us posted sir.  :-)


Take note that the task at hand for this luthier is to be aesthetically correct and build in the response and sound of one of the best sounding guitars in the world.  As an analogy, its like designing and building a Miss Universe with intelligence.

 :lol:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 11:14:23 PM by cayle »

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2010, 10:16:18 PM »
billet 14 just speaks to me


Quote
Even abroad these tops are rare

as the saying no two pieces of wood are the same..

Offline siore

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2010, 10:38:53 PM »
Bookmarked.  Let's see how firemodel55 does it.  :-)  Do we get to hear it when it's built?  I pick top Q or maybe C, based on ee-nee-mee-nee-mhye-nee-mo.
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Offline marcus_gloom

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 10:52:12 PM »
I think this will be one long expensive build and a hot thread.

Offline qwi

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 11:10:09 PM »
wala akong napili sa 'pre-selected' tops. just shows again na iba ang taste ko  :oops:

will be looking forward kung ano pipiliin ni sir.
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Offline firewaterjem

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2010, 11:42:36 PM »
Not really.  At least I get to choose the top and the finish and some other appointments.  And the most important thing is that there are some similarities for what I want for a custom guitar but his breadth of experience completes the reality.  So, in this case, its a custom order with the luthier's skill at the forefront.  This is a new concept that I am trying to educate people one this forum.  RECOGNIZE EXPERTS and GIVE THEM CONTROL OF THE MAJORITY OF THE SITUATION.  These two principles are what I believe in to get a sounding custom guitar with character.

would you care to educate us more by sharing to us your exact specifications of your appointments?

how about sharing to us if the Luthier is local or not...

but just my guess would be.... he's not local...

my choice would be Top I... 2nd is Top C...

Offline firewaterjem

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2010, 11:47:26 PM »
I think this will be one long expensive build and a hot thread.


one year to be exact   :-D


Offline arkeetar

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2010, 12:07:17 AM »
paano bang malalaman kung super experienced ang isang luthier? seryosong tanong...
close kayo?
magkakilala since birth?
hearsay?
rumors?

lol :lol:

kagaya ng pagkakakilala ko kina jon elegee, maraming magagandang feedbacks, kaya sa kanya ako nagpupunta
kuntento ako sa output at service na nagawa n'ya sa gitara ko.
at merong 2nd time around...

pero kung 1st time magpapagawa? masasabi na bang... you the MAN! you're the BEST in the World!  :-D
sabay balik sa tanong:

Quote
paano bang malalaman kung super experienced ang isang luthier? seryosong tanong...
close kayo?
magkakilala since birth?
hearsay?
rumors?

 :-D

Offline bryanarzaga

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2010, 12:10:15 AM »
paano bang malalaman kung super experienced ang isang luthier? seryosong tanong...
close kayo?
magkakilala since birth?
hearsay?
rumors?

lol :lol:

kagaya ng pagkakakilala ko kina jon elegee, maraming magagandang feedbacks, kaya sa kanya ako nagpupunta
kuntento ako sa output at service na nagawa n'ya sa gitara ko.
at merong 2nd time around...

pero kung 1st time magpapagawa? masasabi na bang... you the MAN! you're the BEST in the World!  :-D
sabay balik sa tanong:

 :-D


opinion lang nya ark, or this builder could be Baker man himself..

Offline arkeetar

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2010, 12:10:37 AM »
Take note that the task at hand for this luthier is to be aesthetically correct and build in the response and sound of one of the best sounding guitars in the world.  As an analogy, its like designing and building a Miss Universe with intelligence.

but wait there's more!  :lol:

hindi lahat ng feedbacks na nalaman ko sa isang luthier ay eh maganda,
pero mas maraming positive comments kaya tiwala pa rin ako  :lol:

opinion lang nya ark, or this builder could be Baker man himself..

close pala kung sakali  :lol:

intay intay na lang muna  :lol:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 12:13:03 AM by arkeetar »

Offline r_chino18

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2010, 12:17:15 AM »
Top C and V are just gorgeous. But C gets the best of me.  :-)

Anyway, good luck on your custom sir. Hope it translates well to your liking when it's done.  :wink:

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2010, 05:05:07 AM »
Point of Trivia: One of these tops will cost me an extra US$1600 -- yup thats right.  Can anyone guess which one?

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 05:17:26 AM »
paano bang malalaman kung super experienced ang isang luthier? seryosong tanong...
close kayo?
magkakilala since birth?
hearsay?
rumors?

lol :lol:

kagaya ng pagkakakilala ko kina jon elegee, maraming magagandang feedbacks, kaya sa kanya ako nagpupunta
kuntento ako sa output at service na nagawa n'ya sa gitara ko.
at merong 2nd time around...

pero kung 1st time magpapagawa? masasabi na bang... you the MAN! you're the BEST in the World!  :-D
sabay balik sa tanong:

 :-D


Will try to answer it from my perspective:

But really it just boils down to  --  God Given talent.  Super Experience with Super Exposure is one important requirement.  I don't think any local luthier has it here in Manila.

We are NOT close.  In fact, I only started communicating with him a few weeks ago.  Not hearsay or rumors and more positive comments are not enough.  And you are right. Its the output that counts.  I have seen pictures and tried Elegee's output and they are no match for this guy's output in terms of quality, craftsmanship and ability to get the sound right.   But don't get me wrong.  Elegee's price is much cheaper.  I think one reason, I posted the tops is to show you the diversity in top selection and access to premium quality maple tops that this luthier has access to and WISDOM to select.  Actually, they are all in his storage.  Elegee does NOT have the quality and figure of these tops let alone the weight and sound for his billets.  This luthier rejects 95% of all premium woods used for guitar.  Elegee does not do that -- but then again, he is trying to make a custom guitar more affordable specially Mang Max.  And for that, its cool.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 05:51:31 AM by firemodel55 »

Offline Filippo

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 05:22:14 AM »
alex, is the builder able to document that his wood is in fact "old growth" wood? What's his definition of old growth wood as this term has ben used loosely somettimes?

How is he able to guarantee that it will sound good like you mentioned? From what I recall in previous threads, they are not able to predict if a guitar will sound good until the finish product is done, regardless of parts and build technique used right?
We're all just caretakers. And some better than others.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Bite the Bullet -- Taking a custom order
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2010, 05:27:05 AM »
wala akong napili sa 'pre-selected' tops. just shows again na iba ang taste ko  :oops:

will be looking forward kung ano pipiliin ni sir.

You might like Quilt Tops which I do.  This luthier offered that option which meant that he was willing to source wood for me  The only reason I decided to stick with his selection is that his top woods are aesthetically correct.

By the way according to my local luthier friend, the problem with quilt tops is that they do not have enough "action".  And I have to agree.  The tops shown here have action that only well chosen flame tops can deliver.