Why do corksniffers hate everything that is made in China?

[bryanarzaga]

As they say, the grass is greener on the other side

isnt that a limp bizkit song? (i kid)

I know its very subjective, but if you can afford a US made, why not.

yes i actually support this, only if it was a builder that will provide quality

[KASALANAN]

Naging stereotype na kasi na pag made in China, poor QC na agad..

I wouldn't care where it is made, as long as maganda tunog and reliable naman. 

japan din naman nun early years ng electronics production nila parang china daw sabe ng dad ko, anyways siguro after 10 years ok na talaga quality ng china.

Not saying I hate things made in China. I love Chinese people. 

But some people do, because they can. They don't want to risk the stuff you mentioned because they have the buying power to get something not made with cheap labor. But it's wrong to force the issue to other people. 

i like chinitas

[Bolt Thrower]

i like chinitas too.




so there. 

[skunkyfunk]

But in terms of sound design in audio, the japanese have never beat the americans and europeans in coming up with amps and speakers that sound good despite their economic dominance.  In short, hindi talent ng mga Japanese ang gumawa ng magagandang tunog na audio -- there are exceptions of course but not the norm.

True that.  I never saw a usable amp made in Japan other than the Roland JC series (which was built best for clean).  The Cubes are ok too,  but for their tube amps, even the Fender Japan models, I did not get as much hard-on compared to the US models.

[bryanarzaga]

True that.  I never saw a usable amp made in Japan other than the Roland JC series (which was built best for clean).  The Cubes are ok too,  but for their tube amps, even the Fender Japan models, I did not get as much hard-on compared to the US models.

hybrid ok?  the roland bolt has both JC Cleans and a bit of overdrive..

[neicon27]

question lang... given the choice,  would you prefer a guitar locally made?  or a guitar made in china?

[metalheadz]

This thread got me thinking. Not to be racist but what if the US hired Chinese to work in an US based factory and vice versa, wouldn't that still count as a China build since they are made by Chinese in the US and American build by Americans in China?
Peace. Again, I am not racist, it got me thinking lang

[bryanarzaga]

question lang... given the choice,  would you prefer a guitar locally made?  or a guitar made in china?

wherever i am situated ill find what the place can offer,

im in the plans of another pinas made one..

a chinese made one is always there and is easy to get..(i do this to get a body for a pickup)

[Bolt Thrower]

This thread got me thinking. Not to be racist but what if the US hired Chinese to work in an US based factory and vice versa, wouldn't that still count as a China build since they are made by Chinese in the US and American build by Americans in China?
Peace. Again, I am not racist, it got me thinking lang

Quality Control and Consumer laws are far stricter in the US I think. Siguro mas aangat pa rin ng konti. Quality control has always been the issue of the Chinese. But there are Chinese guitars that are of outstanding quality too.

[bluesman_jsb]

such as?

  BOSS PEDALS are mainly manufactured in Taiwan, and Yamaha Guitars too.
  
  I've said Hongkong because Music Stores there such as Tomlee have this kind of great and strong quality control policies as far as i know. You can rely on them when it comes to Epiphone, Gibson, Ibanez, etc. the only thing is, sometimes they double the price
  
  but of course, the great QC will be on us. because the minute you buy those things, you're bound to use it for the rest of your life unless you want to sell it cheap and make somebody's life miserable due to a bad QC you've made

  this has nothing to do with racism. everything is facts

[metalheadz]

Quality Control and Consumer laws are far stricter in the US I think. Siguro mas aangat pa rin ng konti. Quality control has always been the issue of the Chinese. But there are Chinese guitars that are of outstanding quality too.

I see. Thanks sa reply, I remember one thread mentioning that out of the million quality guitars there would always be that one that sucks and out of the millions of crappy guitars, there is that 1 that is far above the rest.

Pagalingan nalang siguro sa pagpili ng gitara regardless kung MIJ,MIA or MIC like this guy, he scored

[shodawmoon]

 BOSS PEDALS are mainly manufactured in Taiwan, and Yamaha Guitars too.
  
  I've said Hongkong because Music Stores there such as Tomlee have this kind of great and strong quality control policies as far as i know. You can rely on them when it comes to Epiphone, Gibson, Ibanez, etc. the only thing is, sometimes they double the price
  
  but of course, the great QC will be on us. because the minute you buy those things, you're bound to use it for the rest of your life unless you want to sell it cheap and make somebody's life miserable due to a bad QC you've made

  this has nothing to do with racism. everything is facts

what?

[bryanarzaga]

This thread got me thinking. Not to be racist but what if the US hired Chinese to work in an US based factory and vice versa, wouldn't that still count as a China build since they are made by Chinese in the US and American build by Americans in China?
Peace. Again, I am not racist, it got me thinking lang

i think the discussion was based on country of origin not people..if that was the case..Hahn guitars would made in korea lol..Suhr would be made in germany(rasmussen i have co-workers with this last name)

anyway...i do get it from the cork sniffer side..lets say you were joe passionate builder..you like to build every guitar with your heart and soul..and you look @ your left its a factory that with the help of CNC, puts out more guitars than you..

- if you were joe..you  seem disgusted by sight of the output that these places..because it lessens the meaning of the craft to that of an assembly line..meaning the art is gone..
- Q.C would in some cases not be there, because some of these places have unskilled labor..but there are other places in the region that do..

but if you work with the unskilled and show them how to really get in level with you..the results could be surprising

[bryanarzaga]

 BOSS PEDALS are mainly manufactured in Taiwan, and Yamaha Guitars too.

 

i think yamaha has its own factory in china,

 I've said Hongkong because Music Stores there such as Tomlee have this kind of great and strong quality control policies as far as i know. You can rely on them when it comes to Epiphone, Gibson, Ibanez, etc. the only thing is, sometimes they double the price

im not sure about gibson, but when i was there 2010..the prices were off by just a few $US, not much..my SD-1 cost $27 that was new in tom lee..
  

 but of course, the great QC will be on us. because the minute you buy those things, you're bound to use it for the rest of your life unless you want to sell it cheap and make somebody's life miserable due to a bad QC you've made

i think most shops(retail) have a return policy..here its 30 days..

[stringman]

Quality Control and Consumer laws are far stricter in the US I think. Siguro mas aangat pa rin ng konti. Quality control has always been the issue of the Chinese. But there are Chinese guitars that are of outstanding quality too.

There are Chines guitars and effects being sold in the US. And those products pass the strict US Quality.

[Bolt Thrower]

There are Chines guitars and effects being sold in the US. And those products pass the strict US Quality.

we were talking about producing products in the US with Chinese workers---and how it would impact quality. Iba din naman yung QC at Consumer check ng domestic plant compared sa offshore plant. 

[teleclem]

question lang... given the choice,  would you prefer a guitar locally made?  or a guitar made in china?

Depende kung paano ginawa. I'm sure a luthier here can build a guitar better than a chinese knockoff. Same applies kung chinese luthier vs cheap philippine knockoff.

[nitroaurora]

This thread got me thinking. Not to be racist but what if the US hired Chinese to work in an US based factory and vice versa, wouldn't that still count as a China build since they are made by Chinese in the US and American build by Americans in China?
Peace. Again, I am not racist, it got me thinking lang

+1000

[firemodel55]

I see. Thanks sa reply, I remember one thread mentioning that out of the million quality guitars there would always be that one that sucks and out of the millions of crappy guitars, there is that 1 that is far above the rest.

Pagalingan nalang siguro sa pagpili ng gitara regardless kung MIJ,MIA or MIC like this guy, he scored

I have a high pick rate... and a higher reject rate:)

[pitongjerome]

I have a high pick rate... and a higher reject rate:)

dont the ultrasound guys and the US luthiers pick for you?

[skunkyfunk]

Was it Bolt Thrower who said this before?  "It is not the WHERE it was made, but the HOW..."

[metalheadz]

i think the discussion was based on country of origin not people..if that was the case..Hahn guitars would made in korea lol..Suhr would be made in germany(rasmussen i have co-workers with this last name)

anyway...i do get it from the cork sniffer side..lets say you were joe passionate builder..you like to build every guitar with your heart and soul..and you look @ your left its a factory that with the help of CNC, puts out more guitars than you..

- if you were joe..you  seem disgusted by sight of the output that these places..because it lessens the meaning of the craft to that of an assembly line..meaning the art is gone..
- Q.C would in some cases not be there, because some of these places have unskilled labor..but there are other places in the region that do..

but if you work with the unskilled and show them how to really get in level with you..the results could be surprising

oh i see thanks for the clarification
if China really surpassed the skillwork and QC of USA, then maybe China would be top notch... sadly they aren't

I have a high pick rate... and a higher reject rate:)

lol kaw tlga

Was Bolt Thrower who said this before?  "It is not the WHERE it was made, but the HOW..."

i think so but i am not sure... did you say this sir Bolt Thrower? makes great sense

[firemodel55]

True that.  I never saw a usable amp made in Japan other than the Roland JC series (which was built best for clean).  The Cubes are ok too,  but for their tube amps, even the Fender Japan models, I did not get as much hard-on compared to the US models.

Skunky, I was thinking... The concept of Chinese made means every component is of lesser quality in both construction and design and most of the time sound.  Assuming we only look at labor as the main difference, my Soldano SLO 100 could actually be made in China given the same materials but then...  shipping the Deyoung Transformers to China is itself expensive.  And storing inventory is also expensive when you can have Deyoung just make the transformers as you need them.  Let me tell you a story skunky.  When Lito ordered my Soldano, he was leaving California in less than a week. Soldano had less than 3 days to make and ship a SLO with my requested modifications and they delivered with a power supply at 220 volts.  Sure, I would have paid more for the labor of the single American who made the amp but if it were made in China, I would have paid for freight (both ways for materials), extra duties (import tariff of the U.S.), brokerage fee (for both sides of the pacific), chinese consultants and interpreters, American expat plane tickets (to check on Chinese quality control), working capital interest due to higher stocks of inventory in china, etc...  And at the end of the day, I would not have gotten my Soldano SLO 100 in 3 days.  

The second important factor to consider is that US companies will generally refuse to have their premium or best designs made in China for fear of it being copied.  Seriously, quite a number of U.S. companies have refused to overseas manufacture because of design theft and piracy and fake reproductions.

So, to be direct, China made amps and guitars are for people who have limited budgets.  Its not just about outsourcing lower costs but its about giving an affordable package to those who cannot afford premium gear.  Are they products to rave about?  Personally, no.  Will they get the job done?  Most likely.  Will they make some people happy?  Surely.  Will they have longevity?  No... no chinese manufactured product ever has.

[skunkyfunk]

Skunky, I was thinking... The concept of Chinese made means every component is of lesser quality in both construction and design and most of the time sound.  Assuming we only look at labor as the main difference, my Soldano SLO 100 could actually be made in China given the same materials but then...  shipping the Deyoung Transformers to China is itself expensive.  And storing inventory is also expensive when you can have Deyoung just make the transformers as you need them.  Let me tell you a story skunky.  When Lito ordered my Soldano, he was leaving California in less than a week. Soldano had less than 3 days to make and ship a SLO with my requested modifications and they delivered with a power supply at 220 volts.  Sure, I would have paid more for the labor of the single American who made the amp but if it were made in China, I would have paid for freight (both ways for materials), extra duties (import tariff of the U.S.), brokerage fee (for both sides of the pacific), chinese consultants and interpreters, American expat plane tickets (to check on Chinese quality control), working capital interest due to higher stocks of inventory in china, etc...  And at the end of the day, I would not have gotten my Soldano SLO 100 in 3 days.  

The second important factor to consider is that US companies will generally refuse to have their premium or best designs made in China for fear of it being copied.  Seriously, quite a number of U.S. companies have refused to overseas manufacture because of design theft and piracy and fake reproductions.

So, to be direct, China made amps and guitars are for people who have limited budgets.  Its not just about outsourcing lower costs but its about giving an affordable package to those who cannot afford premium gear.  Are they products to rave about?  Personally, no.  Will they get the job done?  Most likely.  Will they make some people happy?  Surely.  Will they have longevity?  No... no chinese product ever has.

I was also thinking the same thing.  No one in the higher spectrum of society would buy a 'luxury' item that has a "Made in China" stamp, even if the product was 100% as good as the made in US/Europe counterpart.

[stringman]

we were talking about producing products in the US with Chinese workers---and how it would impact quality. Iba din naman yung QC at Consumer check ng domestic plant compared sa offshore plant. 

I think it's the labor of love for the US builders.